As Walter Veith referred to Arianism as a heresy, I decided to look into the beliefs of Arianism.

I googled the word Arianism and found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism

The first two paragraphs, which I am quoting below, caught my attention:


They basically believe that Jesus didn't always exist, but was a created being and consequently a distinct being that was not equal with God, but was subordinate to God.

Any thoughts on this?

Arianism in various forms raged -- and still rages.
Even the popular anti-Arianism concept still has Christ being "eternally generated" by the Father.

The doctrine that Christ is a distinct Being, fully God -- One with God Father, without beginning or end, is simply a hard concept to grasp thus all kinds of ideas have been foisted upon Christians.


Personally I have found this discussion which has raged on many a forum including this one, to be very painful. As there are Adventists who are Arian in their beliefs and too often the discussion ends up dragging Christ down.
The finite mind is very limited when it comes to understanding what makes God, God.

Arian Adventists will deny being Arian, as they say Christ was "born" not "created" sometime prior to His incarnation. But the end is the same -- they believe Christ had a beginning and is not God in the full sense that the Father is God.

The problem with the above posted question is that the Texts quoted are also in the KJV as well as in the newer versions. All misinterpretations are not the result of mistranslations.

“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." (John 14:28)

When Jesus took on humanity He also took on complete subjection to the will of the Father.
Match that verse with Philippines 2:5-9 that states before His condescension Christ was equal to God.




See also Colossians 1:15—"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;";

Firstborn here, does not mean God began giving birth and every creature that followed was also literally "born" of God in a literalistic sense. First born of creation — would be followed by second born of creation - third born etc. (By the way there is a whole doctrine of demons from that misunderstanding )


Yet we must see this verse in context. Read the verse following, Colossians 1:18, and see it in context.

For by Him were all things created..All things were created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
"And He is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the FIRSTBORN FROM THE DEAD: that in all things he might have the pre-eminence."

Now that we've read the whole passage we realize that firstborn of every creature means PRE-EMINENCE. This pre-eminence is established first because Christ is the creator of all!



also, Revelation 3:14—"These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God";


WHO is "the Amen"?

Deut. 7:9 The "Amen" God is the faithful God. (the Hebrew word faithful comes from "amen")
Isaiah 49:7 "Jehovah that is faithful.
Isaiah 65:16 "The God of truth," marg. "The God of Amen".

"Amen" spoken by God means "it is and shall be".

Jesus Christ was the member of the Godhead to begin creating — in fact — nothing NOTHING was created without Him.

John 1:3 "All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made."
Colossians 1:16,17 For by Him were ALL THINGS created. .visible or invisible thrones, dominions, principalities, or powers, all things consist by Him!

Paul's Greek here is clear: He (Jesus Christ) created "ta panta" -- the all.

Our leading pioneers were united on this fundamental point:

http://www.theprophetstillspeaks.co.uk/Index.htm

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One of the major texts that raises the question of an "Arian" Bible
is --

As cited in the KJV, the Geneva Bible, Tyndale's Bible, Young's literal translation --



Luther's 1545 German Bible skips the verse.



Did the apostle John write that verse and was it later deleted from some manuscripts?
Or, as some claim, was it later inserted when the Trinitarians won over the Arians?

A Trail of Evidence shows this text was known at a very early date by writers from about 200 AD through the 1500s.

Here is a timeline someone made of references to this verse:
Obviously it was known as early as 200 A.D.

200 AD Tertullian quoted the verse in his Apology, Against Praxeas

250 AD Cyprian of Carthage, wrote, "And again, of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost it is written: "And the three are One" in his On The Lapsed, On the Novatians, Ecclesiasticorum Latinorum, Academia Litterarum Vindobonensis, vol. xviii, p. 6.]

350 AD Idacius Clarus referred to it [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 62, col. 359.]

350 AD Athanasius referred to it in his De Incarnatione
398 AD Aurelius Augustine used it to defend Trinitarianism in De Trinitate against the heresy of Sabellianism

415 AD Council of Carthage appealed to 1 John 5:7 when debating the Arian belief (Arians didn't believe in the deity of Jesus Christ)

450-530 AD Several orthodox African writers quoted the verse when defending the doctrine of the Trinity against the Vandals. These writers are:
A) Vigilius Tapensis in "Three Witnesses in Heaven"
B) Victor Vitensis in his Historia persecutionis [Corpus Scriptorum Ecclesiasticorum Latinorum, Academia Litterarum Vindobonensis, vol. vii, p. 60.]
C) Fulgentius in "The Three Heavenly Witnesses" [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 65, col. 500.]

500 AD Cassiodorus cited it [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 70, col. 1373.]
550 AD Old Latin ms r has it
550 AD The "Speculum" has it [The Speculum is a treatise that contains some good Old Latin scriptures.]
750 AD Wianburgensis referred to it

And
800 AD the revised Jerome's Vulgate has it --- BUT it was not in Jerome's original Vulgate which he translated 400 years earlier.
It was brought in about 800 AD from good Old Latin manuscripts.]

So why did Jerome leave it out even though men 200 years earlier were already referring to it as scripture?




157-1400 AD Waldensian (Vaudois) Bibles have the verse



.