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Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
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God's election to save vs. the human choice.
#16283
09/21/05 12:22 AM
09/21/05 12:22 AM
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OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2020
4500+ Member
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
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In another thread I commented to Tom that he was right "to observe that some of my comments show a 'Calvanist' perspective." I went on to say, "Our 'Calvanist' friends are at the opposite extreme of Adventist theology regarding the role of the will. However, scripture is in the middle and it rejects the idea that anyone can be saved who chooses to be. The saved will be in heaven because God has chosen them. They have said 'yes' to God and to Christ, but it was Christ who chose us, not vice versa. This is an important area that merits another thread."
So here is the thread.
Is my summary accurate?
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Re: God's election to save vs. the human choice.
#16284
09/21/05 01:09 AM
09/21/05 01:09 AM
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John 3:16 tells me that the word "whoever" means that God has chosen everybody to be saved, therefore, it is up to the "whoever" to respond.
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Re: God's election to save vs. the human choice.
#16285
09/21/05 01:13 AM
09/21/05 01:13 AM
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Senior Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 449
England
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Well here are some Bible verses about God choosing us:
Mt:20:16: So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Mk:13:20: And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
Jn:6:70: Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
Jn:13:18: I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.
Jn:15:16: Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Jn:15:19: If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
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Re: God's election to save vs. the human choice.
#16286
09/21/05 02:40 AM
09/21/05 02:40 AM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
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Re: God's election to save vs. the human choice.
#16287
09/21/05 04:42 AM
09/21/05 04:42 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Not only has God chosen us for salvation, but He has taken such steps to save us that only persistent rebellion on our part will enable us to be lost. quote:
How, then, are we to be saved? "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness," so the Son of man has been lifted up, and everyone who has been deceived and bitten by the serpent may look and live. "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." John 1:29. The light shining from the cross reveals the love of God. His love is drawing us to Himself. If we do not resist this drawing, we shall be led to the foot of the cross in repentance for the sins that have crucified the Saviour. Then the Spirit of God through faith produces a new life in the soul.
God's love makes is hard for anyone to be lost:
quote:
Yet do not therefore conclude that the upward path is the hard and the downward road the easy way. All along the road that leads to death there are pains and penalties, there are sorrows and disappointments, there are warnings not to go on. God's love has made it hard for the heedless and headstrong to destroy themselves.
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Re: God's election to save vs. the human choice.
#16288
09/21/05 04:10 PM
09/21/05 04:10 PM
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John 12:32 says, "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."
If it is hard to be lost, and I am not disputing that God wants to save everybody, then why is it that so many are choosing to be lost?
Why does it seem to be so hard to choose to be saved
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Re: God's election to save vs. the human choice.
#16289
09/21/05 05:59 PM
09/21/05 05:59 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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quote:
Why does it seem to be so hard to choose to be saved?
Unbelief. We do not believe how good the Good News is.
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Re: God's election to save vs. the human choice.
#16290
09/21/05 10:53 PM
09/21/05 10:53 PM
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OP
SDA
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There is harmony between the texts Claudia posted and those John posted. God wants to save everyone, but many resist and choose the easy, broad way to death. But ultimately, insofar as the the saved are concerned, God credits His own election and removes all credit from the saved individual. That is one of the aspects of the election that is very beneficial - it ascribes our salvation to God's initiative rather than to our initiative.
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Re: God's election to save vs. the human choice.
#16291
09/22/05 01:18 AM
09/22/05 01:18 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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God chooses everyone to be saved, and does everything to save. Of course all the credit goes to Him. All we can do is cease resisting His effort to save us.
It's like you're in a river about to go over the falls, and a motorboat arrives at the last moment, and rescues you. As you are rescued, would you say, "Oh look at me! I allowed myself to be rescued! I deserve credit!"
The lost will have beat off the rescue effort.
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Re: God's election to save vs. the human choice.
#16292
09/22/05 01:21 AM
09/22/05 01:21 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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quote:
John 12:32 says, "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."
Just as an aside, the original says, "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all unto me." The cross of Christ drawn not only men, but the unfallen beings as well.
quote:
20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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