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Re: Biblical predictions of Antichrist & Sunday Laws [Re: dedication] #165998
06/18/14 11:41 AM
06/18/14 11:41 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: dedication
The issue presented here is a doctrine that the enemy of souls loves to get people to believe.

Satan likes people to think of him as some beastly, dumb creature with a pitch fork and hooves that is always recognized as distinctly evil.

Yes, he is distinctly evil BUT --

2 Cor. 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

In fact if you've been exposed to any "New Age" stuff you realize that one of the "masters" (which are fallen angels) calls himself "Jesus".

The religious world is looking for an evil "antichrist" and someone may present himself as such, but the whole world will fall for the real antichrist because it will manifest itself as AN ANGEL OF LIGHT or as Jesus Himself, or Christ's representative. (We'll probably see a combination of all three)

You misapply and misinterpret the words of Paul, pulling 2 Cor. 11:14-15 completely out of its context. There, Paul was contrasting his labour of love for the Corinthians with the "fine and dandy Christian missionaries" coming after him and seeking to exploit their naivety. Earlier, he said, "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy:for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ." (v. 2-3)

Even SDA fall for these ministers who travel about wanting to conduct seminars for thousands of dollars a pop and peddling CD and DVD and books and other paraphernalia.

///

Re: Biblical predictions of Antichrist & Sunday Laws [Re: James Peterson] #166000
06/18/14 02:20 PM
06/18/14 02:20 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,416
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Originally Posted By: James Peterson

You misapply and misinterpret the words of Paul, pulling 2 Cor. 11:14-15 completely out of its context. There, Paul was contrasting his labour of love for the Corinthians with the "fine and dandy Christian missionaries" coming after him and seeking to exploit their naivety. Earlier, he said, "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy:for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ." (v. 2-3)
It may be the purpose of Paul's discourse, but in comparing the "fine and dandy Christian missionaries coming after him", he does say "Did not even Satan marvelously transform himself into an angel of light?"

I would take this to mean that Satan marvelously transforms himself into an angel of light, no?

As which followed:
"Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves as ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works."

I would conclude dedication did not misapply and misinterpret the words.

Re: Biblical predictions of Antichrist & Sunday Laws [Re: kland] #166001
06/18/14 02:49 PM
06/18/14 02:49 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: kland
It may be the purpose of Paul's discourse, but in comparing the "fine and dandy Christian missionaries coming after him", he does say "Did not even Satan marvelously transform himself into an angel of light?"

I would take this to mean that Satan marvelously transforms himself into an angel of light, no?

As which followed: "Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves as ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works."

That's why I said the part you left out, "Even SDA fall for these ministers who travel about wanting to conduct seminars for thousands of dollars a pop and peddling CD and DVD and books and other paraphernalia." Consider verse 7 (2 Cor. 11) and be wise, "Did I commit sin in humbling myself that you might be exalted, because I preached the gospel of God to you free of charge?"

These ministers are only interested in licking their finger, lifting it up to feel where the wind is blowing, then ranting and raving in that direction. Paul concludes, "But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works." (v. 12-15)

BUT WHO IS THE ANTICHRIST?

He is not one who masquerades as or genuinely represents Christ. John says plainly that he is one who denounces and repudiates Jesus of Nazareth and denies that Jesus is Christ. (1 John 2:22) Here is your opportunity to pick him out from one of these: first and foremost, the Jews; or the Muslims; or the Buddhists, Hindus, Zoroastrians, etc.; or the Atheists; or any one of the many non-Christian affiliations.

///

Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: James Peterson] #166025
06/19/14 02:15 AM
06/19/14 02:15 AM
dedication  Offline
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Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Originally Posted By: Elle


I would suggest to first get the Biblical definition of the word "antichrist" and work our way from there.

Indeed, and here it is: "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus (of Nazareth) is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also." (1 John 2:22-23)

As I said, it is self-evident that the Antichrist arises from the non-Christian sector of society. Many Christians were, are and will continue to be drawn away by him. That is what John meant when he said, "They (many antichrists) went out from us but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out (to follow THE Antichrist) that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." (v. 19)

To suggest the the Papacy is THE Antichrist is like burying your head in the sand and shouting, "La-la-la-la-la-la!!!!!!!!" The Biblical definition lends itself rather to someone more in the vein of Josef Stalin, as in ancient times, Pharaoh Rameses: "Who is the Lord, that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I know not The Lord, neither will I let Israel go." (Exod. 5:2)



Deception -- the antichrist is about deception.
2 Thess. 2

This isn't just about a tyrant, but about deception.

The Reformers didn't have their heads in the sand singing La la --
They knew who the antichrist was.
They stood against him at the very peril of their lives, hundreds being burned at the stake or suffering other tortuous deaths due to the papal inquisitions and crusades.
Thanks to the reformers valiant courage the western world emerged out of the dark ages controlled by the "antichrist", and the light of Christ's righteousness began to shine once again, the truth of the Bible became available to people.

You think "denying Christ" is only those who openly say they don't believe in Him.
There are other ways to deny Christ?

People can still give lip service to their belief in Christ, while denying Christ in their actions and life purpose.
People can "use" the name of Christ, to further their own oppressive and tyrannical purposes.

What did the major Protestant Reformers teach about the Antichrist? Whether you agree with them or not, it is important to realize what they actually taught.

They KNEW what the papal power was all about. They experienced it first hand.
And don't think it won't be like that again once the power of the state is in the hands of the papacy.

Martin Luther (1483-1546)

Quote:
"the papal tyranny acts in all things on its own
false maxims; while it forcibly wrests and perverts the words of God. I admit indeed that Christians must endure this accursed tyranny, as they would any other violence inflicted
on them by the world, according to the saying of Christ: “Whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.” (Matt. v. 39.) But I complain of this, that wicked pontiffs boast that they have a rightful power to act thus, and pretend that in this Babylon of theirs they are providing for the interests of Christendom; an idea which they have persuaded all men to adopt. If they did these things in conscious and avowed impiety and tyranny, or if it were simple violence that we endured, we might meanwhile quietly reckon
up the advantages thus afforded us for the mortification of this life and the fulfilment of baptism, and should retain the full right of glorying in conscience at the wrong done us. As
it is, they desire so to ensnare our consciences in the matter of liberty that we should believe all that they do to be well done, and should think it unlawful to blame or complain of their iniquitous actions. Being wolves, they wish to appear shepherds; being antichrists, they wish to be honored as Christ.
The papacy is
in truth nothing else than the kingdom of Babylon and of very Antichrist.
For who is the man of sin and the son of perdition, but he who by his teaching and his ordinances increases the sin and perdition of souls in the church; while he yet sits in the church as if he were God? All these conditions have now for many ages been fulfilled by the papal tyranny.” Martin Luther, First Principles, pp. 196-197




John Calvin (1509-1564)

Quote:
"Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we
call the Roman pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the
same charge of presumption against Paul himself, after whom we speak and whose language we
adopt... I shall briefly show that (Paul's words in II Thess. 2) are not capable of any other interpretation
than that which applies them to the Papacy." Taken from Institutes of the Christian Religion, by John
Calvin.

Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: James Peterson] #166026
06/19/14 02:24 AM
06/19/14 02:24 AM
dedication  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,411
Canada
American Bible Commentator, Ralph Woodrow, reminds us,

"There are two great truths that stand out in the preaching that brought about the Protestant Reformation, The just shall live by faith, not by the works of Romanism and the Papacy is the Antichrist of Scripture.'

It was a message for Christ and against Antichrist. The entire Reformation rests upon this twofold testimony'"

Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: dedication] #166032
06/19/14 06:01 AM
06/19/14 06:01 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline OP
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: dedication
American Bible Commentator, Ralph Woodrow, reminds us,

"There are two great truths that stand out in the preaching that brought about the Protestant Reformation, The just shall live by faith, not by the works of Romanism and the Papacy is the Antichrist of Scripture.'

It was a message for Christ and against Antichrist. The entire Reformation rests upon this twofold testimony'"

Do you appeal to Martin Luther, John Calvin and Ralph Woodrow on questions about the Sabbath as well? Or do you recognize that scriptural understanding is progressive and that greater light shines now than in their day?

Consider 1 John 4:3, "every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: AND THIS IS THE SPIRIT OF ANTICHRIST, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."

All non-Christians deny that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ; and from thence comes THE Antichrist.

///

Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: James Peterson] #166042
06/19/14 01:34 PM
06/19/14 01:34 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,416
Midland
Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Originally Posted By: kland
It may be the purpose of Paul's discourse, but in comparing the "fine and dandy Christian missionaries coming after him", he does say "Did not even Satan marvelously transform himself into an angel of light?"

I would take this to mean that Satan marvelously transforms himself into an angel of light, no?

As which followed: "Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves as ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works."

That's why I said the part you left out, "Even SDA fall for these ministers who travel about wanting to conduct seminars for thousands of dollars a pop and peddling CD and DVD and books and other paraphernalia." Consider verse 7 (2 Cor. 11) and be wise, "Did I commit sin in humbling myself that you might be exalted, because I preached the gospel of God to you free of charge?"
But you in no way addressed what I pointed out.

And asking who the antichrist is distracts from what I pointed out.

Re: Biblical predictions of Antichrist & Sunday Laws [Re: kland] #166046
06/19/14 03:05 PM
06/19/14 03:05 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline OP
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: kland
But you in no way addressed what I pointed out. And asking who the antichrist is distracts from what I pointed out.

But I did address it.

You pointed out that “[Satan’s] ministers also transform themselves as ministers of righteousness.” And I concurred by saying, "Even SDA fall for these ministers who travel about wanting to conduct seminars for thousands of dollars a pop and peddling CD and DVD and books and other paraphernalia;" whereas Paul ministered to the Corinthians free of charge (2 Cor. 11:7).

Then I asked about THE Antichrist, the topic of this thread.

Hope this helps; and we can move on to discussing the matter at hand, RE: "every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. AND THIS IS THE SPIRIT OF THE ANTICHRIST, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world." (1 John 4:3)

///

Re: Biblical predictions of Antichrist & Sunday Laws [Re: James Peterson] #166048
06/19/14 03:16 PM
06/19/14 03:16 PM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Not only coming in the flesh, but coming in the likeness of sinful flesh...


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Biblical predictions of Antichrist & Sunday Laws [Re: APL] #166058
06/20/14 03:38 AM
06/20/14 03:38 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline OP
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: APL
Not only coming in the flesh, but coming in the likeness of sinful flesh...

I answered your post here: "What did Christ come to save us from".
This thread deals with another matter: "Biblical predictions of Antichrist and Sunday laws". Do you have anything to share about the matter?

///

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