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Re: Biblical Predictions of Antichrist & Sunday Laws [Re: jamesonofthunder] #166964
07/21/14 12:28 AM
07/21/14 12:28 AM
His child  Offline
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Son of thunder,

Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder
When bible prophecy speaks of horns it is always talking about a power unless it expressly takes the image further in description.

The Little Horn is seen rising up in the midst of the Ten horns in Daniel. Those ten horns are ten nations not ten presidents. But the Horns have been given descriptors so they can be identified as nations that arose out of the beast. They were the powers that guided them to form their own respective nations.


Originally Posted By: EGW
The Holy Spirit represents worldly kingdoms under the symbol of fierce beasts of prey; {COL 77.1}


Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder
But the little horn is given the descriptors of having a mouth that speaks blasphemy against the most high and it comes up among the other horns or nations. This easily identifies the power of the Papal powered beast.

The ten horns on the beast of Rev 17 that lend their strength to the beast for one hour are the other churches that give their religious strength to the beast for 15 literal days during the death decree phase of the mark of the beast. They have ten very influential leaders at their heads and the number ten is not literal it is symbolic for the complete number of fallen churches that have disregarded God's law (thus the number 10).

A horn is strength. Power. There are always descriptors to identify what the horn is to represent. From horns you get what kind of power in the descriptors.


Originally Posted By: EGW
If men would but take the Bible as it reads, if there were no false teachers to mislead and confuse their minds, a work would be accomplished that would make angels glad, and that would bring into the fold of Christ thousands upon thousands who are now wandering in error." {GC88 598.3}


The Bible as it reads is very clear: A horn is a king.

Originally Posted By: Daniel 8:20-21
The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.


Originally Posted By: Revelation 17:12, 13
And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.


The Bible as it reads is very clear: the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings.

Originally Posted By: EGW
Their attention was called to the importance of searching the Scriptures to ascertain what is truth. The acceptance of truth ever involves a cross, but the only safe course is to follow the light God permits to shine, lest by neglect it shall become darkness."{RH, October 6, 1885 par. 5}



When the word of God is studied in-depth, what you have written may have some merit and be applicable under some circumstances. But to take a clear thus saith the Lord and explain it away in favor of what you think or what you have been taught is an error: private interpretation.


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Biblical Predictions of Antichrist & Sunday Laws [Re: APL] #166966
07/21/14 01:28 AM
07/21/14 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted By: APL
A big difference between 1844 and 2014, is that in 1844, the revival was not in one individual but over a wide area simultaneously. Read about it in the book, The Great Controversy


Originally Posted By: EGW
Those who eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of God will bring from the books of Daniel and Revelation truth that is inspired by the Holy Spirit. They will start into action forces that cannot be repressed. The lips of children will be opened to proclaim the mysteries that have been hidden from the minds of men. {TM 116.1}


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Biblical Predictions of Antichrist & Sunday Laws [Re: Godsloveandlaw] #166967
07/21/14 01:46 AM
07/21/14 01:46 AM
dedication  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Godsloveandlaw
"Those who cling to the denomination quibble over prophecy,
while bypassing repentance & confession.

Many churches are in a similar condition, but none have had such light."

Yes, gordonb1, I couldn't agree with you more. As the ol saying goes --"first things first". Our walk is a stair step and we must clearly walk up each step and not try and "jump" up 3 or 4 steps. If we talk the talk we must walk the walk.


Interesting how those who wish to push interpretations of prophecy that don't line up with Adventist belief will then turn to judging others as unrepentant and without Christ.
Hmmm....

Re: Biblical Predictions of Antichrist & Sunday Laws [Re: His child] #166984
07/21/14 02:36 PM
07/21/14 02:36 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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Originally Posted By: His child
Son of thunder,

Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder
When bible prophecy speaks of horns it is always talking about a power unless it expressly takes the image further in description.

The Little Horn is seen rising up in the midst of the Ten horns in Daniel. Those ten horns are ten nations not ten presidents. But the Horns have been given descriptors so they can be identified as nations that arose out of the beast. They were the powers that guided them to form their own respective nations.


Originally Posted By: EGW
The Holy Spirit represents worldly kingdoms under the symbol of fierce beasts of prey; {COL 77.1}


Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder
But the little horn is given the descriptors of having a mouth that speaks blasphemy against the most high and it comes up among the other horns or nations. This easily identifies the power of the Papal powered beast.

The ten horns on the beast of Rev 17 that lend their strength to the beast for one hour are the other churches that give their religious strength to the beast for 15 literal days during the death decree phase of the mark of the beast. They have ten very influential leaders at their heads and the number ten is not literal it is symbolic for the complete number of fallen churches that have disregarded God's law (thus the number 10).

A horn is strength. Power. There are always descriptors to identify what the horn is to represent. From horns you get what kind of power in the descriptors.


Originally Posted By: EGW
If men would but take the Bible as it reads, if there were no false teachers to mislead and confuse their minds, a work would be accomplished that would make angels glad, and that would bring into the fold of Christ thousands upon thousands who are now wandering in error." {GC88 598.3}


The Bible as it reads is very clear: A horn is a king.

Originally Posted By: Daniel 8:20-21
The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.


Originally Posted By: Revelation 17:12, 13
And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.


The Bible as it reads is very clear: the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings.

Originally Posted By: EGW
Their attention was called to the importance of searching the Scriptures to ascertain what is truth. The acceptance of truth ever involves a cross, but the only safe course is to follow the light God permits to shine, lest by neglect it shall become darkness."{RH, October 6, 1885 par. 5}



When the word of God is studied in-depth, what you have written may have some merit and be applicable under some circumstances. But to take a clear thus saith the Lord and explain it away in favor of what you think or what you have been taught is an error: private interpretation.



Habakkuk 3:4 And his brightness was as the light; he had horns coming out of his hand: and there was the hiding of his power.

Let prophecy speak for itself.

So many here take only one verse and try weave a whole doctrine out of it. If you take all of the verses associated with the word Horn it is always regarding a power. That power could be a man yes, like Alexander the Great he was a force to be reckoned with because of his prowess. But that does not negate the fact that he was a power. EVERY time a horn is mentioned it is to do with the power that entity wields.

The ten horns of Rev 17 are ten kings who have not received POWER yet.

The little horn speaks blasphemy because of the POWER that is given to him.

The Lamb like beast has two horns like a lamb but exercises the POWER of the beast before him.

You make up your own rules and you have no right to quote the Spirit of Prophecy to defend your argument if you are going to try to ignore direct statements that contradict your claim.

"The “two horns like a lamb” well represent the character of our own Government, as expressed in its two fundamental principles,—Republicanism and Protestantism. These principles are the secret of our power and prosperity as a nation." {ST February 8, 1910, par. 6}

Your claim does not reflect the same light as the Spirit of Prophecy so it is not from God. Period.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Biblical Predictions of Antichrist & Sunday Laws [Re: jamesonofthunder] #166999
07/22/14 01:37 AM
07/22/14 01:37 AM
His child  Offline
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Son of thunder,

Are you saying that EGW says the horns ARE whatever?

As I read it she clearly says the characteristics of the horns ARE...

Big difference

Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder


"The “two horns like a lamb” well represent the character of our own Government, as expressed in its two fundamental principles,—Republicanism and Protestantism. These principles are the secret of our power and prosperity as a nation." {ST February 8, 1910, par. 6}


These are not just "HORNS", they are “two horns like a lamb”.

Originally Posted By: EGW
"The lamblike horns indicate youth, innocence, and gentleness, fitly representing the character of the United States"


Originally Posted By: EGW
"It is the beast with lamblike horns--in profession pure, gentle, and harmless--that speaks as a dragon." {GC 442.2}


Originally Posted By: EGW
"And the lamblike horns, emblems of innocence and gentleness, well represent the character of our government, as expressed in its two fundamental principles, republicanism and Protestantism..." (4SP 277)


The horns are as the Bible states: kings/ rulers.

The characteristics and traits of these men is represented as "lamblike" i.e., "Let Christians show that they are Christ-like" {ST, June 29, 1888 par. 8} "It is a realization of the fact that our characters are Christlike, that calls forth the song of praise and thanksgiving to God and to the Lamb."{ST, July 31, 1893 par. 1}

Originally Posted By: EGW
"He had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon." Though professing to be followers of the Lamb of God, men become imbued with the spirit of the dragon. They profess to be meek and humble but they speak and legislate with the spirit of Satan, showing by their actions that they are the opposite of what they profess to be. This lamb-like power unites with the dragon in making war upon those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. And Satan unites with Protestants and papists, acting in consort with them as the god of this world, dictating to men as if they were the subjects of his kingdom, to be handled and governed and controlled as he pleases. {14MR 162.1}


Originally Posted By: EGW
This vision that Christ presented to John, presenting the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, is to be definitely proclaimed to all nations, peoples, and tongues. The churches, represented by Babylon, are represented as having fallen from their spiritual state to become a persecuting power against those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. To John this persecuting power is represented as having horns like a lamb, but as speaking like a dragon. {18MR 29.1}


Originally Posted By: EGW
"the image of Christ is to be revealed in words and actions. {1888 1065.2}


Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder

Your claim does not reflect the same light as the Spirit of Prophecy so it is not from God. Period.


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Biblical Predictions of Antichrist & Sunday Laws [Re: James Peterson] #167000
07/22/14 03:43 AM
07/22/14 03:43 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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We have a direct statement from the Spirit of Prophecy saying the two horns are reptesnting Republicanism and protestantism. The lamblikeness shows the mildness gentleness and innocence like Christ when it first arrose. Was president Obama around then? According to you Obama is not lamblike at all how could the horns be illustrating Obama?


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Biblical Predictions of Antichrist & Sunday Laws [Re: dedication] #167008
07/22/14 01:03 PM
07/22/14 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: dedication
...
It has nothing to do with Adventists needing to accept the speculative ideas such as the four beasts of Daniel 7 being four presidents (Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II) of the United States, and a fifth is Obama. EGW most certainly did not teach that.


Originally Posted By: EGW
“Even the prophets, who were favored with the special illumination of the Spirit, did not fully comprehend the import of the revelations committed to them. The meaning was to be unfolded, from age to age, as the people of God should need the instruction therein contained.”GC88 344.1


Originally Posted By: EGW
“The condemnation that will fall upon the inhabitants of the earth in this day will be because of their rejection of light. Our condemnation in the judgment will not result from the fact that we have lived in error, but from the fact that we have neglected Heaven-sent opportunities for discovering truth. The means of becoming conversant with the truth are within the reach of all; but … we give more attention to the things that charm the ear, and please the eye, and gratify the palate, than to the things that enrich the mind, the divine treasures of truth. It is through the truth that we may answer the great question, ‘What must I do to be saved?’” BEcho, September 17, 1894 par. 5


Originally Posted By: dedication
Ellen White was given the information on last day events.
I think we should stick to that, not try to re-interpret and manufacture new interpretations that have to be changed with every new president and pope.


Originally Posted By: EGW
“Truth is progressive; and those who are preparing for the last great day will go forward in accordance with the accumulated light which shines upon them from the prophecies and from the lessons of Christ and the apostles.” RH, January 5, 1886 par. 6


Originally Posted By: EGW
“The truth of God is progressive; it is always onward, going from strength to a greater strength, from light to a greater light. We have every reason to believe that the Lord will send us increased truth, for a great work is yet to be done. In our knowledge of truth, there is first a beginning in our understanding of it, then a progression, then completion… Much has been lost because our ministers and people have concluded that we have had all the truth essential for us as a people; but such a conclusion is erroneous and in harmony with the deceptions of Satan; for truth will be constantly unfolding.” ST, May 26, 1890 par. 2


Originally Posted By: dedication
Yes, there are forces working very hard not only to cause people to disregard EGW's writings, but also to so misapply them that people are confused as to what she actually says.

By misapplying EGW's sentences and paragraphs to make it SEEM like she is supporting their theories, even though she does NOT, and make it SEEM like she urges people to accept every wind of interpretation that blows, takes the focus off the real issues which she points out in considerable detail. These misapplications cause Adventists to waste their time squabbling over such unrevealed things as to who the last president will be, or other such details, instead of actually studying the message that is plainly given.


It sounds like the same argument that was used by the priests in Christ's day and the leaders in 1888 that would rather fight than switch.

Originally Posted By: dedication
Right now, since Obama is president, some are dogmatic that he is the last, leading people into studying Obama, instead of studying Christ and how to be "safely hid in Him" as well as to what is revealed about the end time.


Originally Posted By: EGW
“Will our brethren bear in mind that we are living amid the perils of the last days? Read Revelation in connection with Daniel. Teach these things.” TM 115.3 & 4


But when the endtime meaning of Daniel and Revelation is seen to be popes and presidents, those who rest on the studies of the pioneers instead of the prophecies themselves, caution others to keep silent. While claiming to rightly understand the Spirit of prophecy, these shepherds contradict its clearest command.

Originally Posted By: EGW
"God saw that many of His professed people were not building for eternity; and in His care and love He was about to send a message of warning to arouse them from their stupor, and prepare them for the coming of their Lord. The warning was not to be entrusted to learned doctors of divinity or popular ministers of the gospel. Had these been faithful watchmen, diligently and prayerfully searching the Scriptures, they would have known the time of night; the prophecies of Daniel and John would have revealed to them the great events about to take place. If they had faithfully followed the light already given, some star of heavenly radiance would have been sent to guide them into all truth."4SP 196.2


Originally Posted By: dedication
A person who studies the actual message in EGW's writings will be watchful to the unfolding of events, they won't be ignorant of the mounting evidence that we are on the edge, and this regardless of the roller coaster ride of those continually refocused on some specific person sitting in the seat of the powers that will play the end time game.
The end game will play out, whether Obama is president or someone else has the chair.


The only way to understand the Bible and its prophecy is to study the Bible and then turn to the Spirit of Prophecy for confirmation and clarification.

Originally Posted By: dedication
The end game will play out, even if Benedict dies, even if the Catholics were to depose Francis, even if a new pope takes the chair -- it will still play out as predicted,because the prophecies are not dependant on any one individual -- they describe the powers that will fight against Lamb of God and His people.

Our desire and study is to be on the side of Christ.


Originally Posted By: EGW
“The solemn messages that have been given in their order in the Revelation are to occupy the first place in the minds of God’s people. Nothing else is to be allowed to engross our attention." 8T 302.1


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Biblical Predictions of Antichrist & Sunday Laws [Re: James Peterson] #167187
08/01/14 11:25 PM
08/01/14 11:25 PM
dedication  Offline
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I see this thread has been successfully derailed from it's topic.
The solemn messages are no longer being discussed, but rather individual presidents and popes and individual interpretations are pushed to the forefront.


Just remember --

A very major part of the third angel's message!
The "remnant church" will be those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus."
The test for every church member FIRST will be if they are securely anchored in Christ in faith and obedience -- and that test will be Sunday laws. Those who are not anchored, and lightly regard the Sabbath and any other of those commandments, will be swept away into the ranks of the ecumenical movement.

This shaking will first happen in the church and then the test will go out to the whole world --
Will they worship and obey God who created the heavens and earth, and set apart the seventh day and sanctified it and asked His people to remember to keep it holy.
Or will they worship the beast by honoring his sign of supposed authority over and above the laws of God.


Popes and presidents will unite to implement that, that is important to know so we are not deceived by a seemingly religious movement -- yet which one will do it is NOT the test.
It's time we start looking at the spiritual side of Daniel and Revelation instead of genealogies and rulers.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if both Obama and Pope Francis lose their seats and some very religious ones take their place to supposedly "undo" the damage these have done, and thereby deceive many into joining them even though they promote Sunday.


That has long been "in the plan"
The "chastisement" of the Catholic church has been prophesied by their visionaries. Pope in exile or worse. Then a righteous pope is to arise and raise the banner high and lead a world in chaos back to God.

I'm not shutting any doors, but will always tell people to KNOW WHAT THE TEST WILL BE - don't get fixated on any one pope or president, it may all be simply a decoy to bring in the real deception by which satan plans to deceive "if possible" the very elect.

Re: Biblical Predictions of Antichrist & Sunday Laws [Re: James Peterson] #167193
08/02/14 09:39 AM
08/02/14 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder
Membership in this church does not guarantee salvation. In fact the majority of the SDA church will be cut off. 1/3 will go through the fire of affliction and the rest will be cut off.

Accepting the Spirit of Prophecy in it's entirety IS one of the prerequisites of receiving the latter rain.

Mr Peterson, when you see this pope lead America to establish the Sunday law, remember this... I am the man God used to warn the world that Francis is the eighth King of Rev 17, years before it happened. I am the one God blessed with this information.

Three things:

1. The latter has already occurred.
2. The USA will never establish a national Sunday law
3. The 8th King of Rev. 17 has already passed away.

///


Thus the thread begins.

When statements about Pope Francis I and question 3 that began this topic are answered in detail from the perspective of current events that relate to President Obama and Pope Francis some conclude that the topic has been derailed.

Originally Posted By: dedication
I see this thread has been successfully derailed from it's topic.
The solemn messages are no longer being discussed, but rather individual presidents and popes and individual interpretations are pushed to the forefront.


While light moves to greater light some things do not change.

Originally Posted By: EGW
"The great error with churches in all ages has been to reach a certain point in their understanding of Bible truth and there stop. There they anchored. They ceased to "Go forward," as much as to say, "We have all-sufficient light. We need no more." And they refuse light." {1888 826.2}


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Biblical Predictions of Antichrist & Sunday Laws [Re: James Peterson] #167199
08/03/14 04:19 AM
08/03/14 04:19 AM
dedication  Offline
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This TYPE of "new light" has been urged upon me since as long as I can remember. Someone, somewhere is always coming up with another (this is the one message) with all the claimed authority of standing as the last messenger to a people who are supposedly doomed because they reject his "this is the one" or a "this is the sign" message.

The interesting thing is -- they all had bible texts to back them up. Yet, how is it that so many diverse interpretations can spring from an inspired book?

It's basically this -- people are bored with the "historicist" approach and are casting about for something new. Something to get them all stirred up with excitement.

I remember back in the 60's several families were convinced that the time had come. They got themselves a bit of land way out in the bush, build a small cabin, sold everything else, and lived there amongst stacks of firewood and cans of food. I was at their cabin some twenty years later. Now some 55 years later they are no longer alive.

But back then in the early sixties, excitement was building. We already lived way out in lumber camp in the mountains of British Columbia, so felt no need to move.

But what sent these people and several other families into the bush? Several things -
1) The judgment hour message went out in 1844. The Bible says more than once that as it was in the days of Noah.... and we know Noah preached for 120 years until probation closed for preflood peoples. Translate that in "present truth" 1844 + 120 = 1964. Of course no one tried to establish a day or hour, but excitement was very real -- Jesus was about to come.
2) America had just elected the first Catholic president in 1960. America, it was said, was opening her doors to the Catholic movement to take over America.
3) Even Billy Graham publically said the world couldn't last beyond five years.
4) Sunday blue laws were in heated discussion. There was the push against them, as well as strong support for them. Several court decisions were made saying Sunday closing laws are not against the constitution.
For example: Braunfeld v. Brown held that the free exercise clause did not mandate an exemption from Sunday Closing Laws for an Orthodox Jewish merchant who observed Saturday as the Sabbath and was thereby required to be closed two days of the week rather than one.

That was my first experience with "present truth" being promoted.



Then there was a "messenger" in the 1980's that nearly destroyed our church with his message which he insisted everyone must accept. Reams of paper full with EGW quotes and Bible texts were given us. Jubilee years, current events all complied to show that things would wrap up before the 1990's would arrive.


So really, when people fixate on certain people as "the one" or certain "time" or "certain" catastrophe as it, and call that "new light" or "present truth" to me it's a clear indication that they are simply following a very well worn path that keeps popping up beside the path of truth but which always leads into confusion ending in nothingness.


The message is clear and sure --
Under the guidance of the papacy, American Protestants will form an image of the beast (become very much like the papacy) and use government power to enforce a state religion that is in opposition to God's commandments (specifically the Sabbath commandment). The European nations will give their support to this, and the movement will become world wide.
Every pope and president in the last century has put more building blocks into making this come true.


We don't have to pick an arbitrary president from which to start a count down. I'm sure people studying prophecy could have made four presidents sort of fit the four beasts way back in the 1950

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