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Re: How does the Bible describe the Process of Conversion? [Re: dedication] #166957
07/20/14 05:22 PM
07/20/14 05:22 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Originally Posted By: dedication
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Some who are laboring for the people do not know what true conversion means. Some seem to think that if they can do a certain work, they are converted. But they are not submissive to the Spirit of the Lord. {19MR 290.4}

Many who pass under the name of Christian are not converted. Conversion means renovation. The sinner must enter into the renovating process for himself. He must come to Jesus. He must give up the wrong habits in which he has indulged. He must bring his unsubdued, unchristlike tendencies under the control of Christ, else he cannot be made a laborer together with God. Christ works, and the sinner works. The life of Christ becomes the life of the human agent. It is through the renewing power of the divine Spirit that man is fashioned into a perfect man in Christ. {LLM 103.5}

Serve the Lord Jesus Christ with the whole heart. God expects you to purify your soul from all defilement. True conversion means a radical change of heart. {13MR 165.1}

The object of conversion is twofold, personal and relative. It is to bless us, and to make us a blessing. This is an individual work; but those who profess to believe the Word of God have so long accustomed their minds to be content with little things that they have disqualified themselves to discern and appreciate the great things prepared for them. In the place of receiving into good and honest hearts the Word that God sends in messages to help them, to elevate, ennoble, and sanctify them, they cavil and gossip over it, because it cuts directly across their inclinations. In the place of seeing their need of conversion, they regard the means which the Lord has provided to change their characters as idle tales. To them their habits are stronger than truth. Individual conversion means a change of character. Man must place himself in personal relation to Christ, that, in the place of following his own hereditary and cultivated tendencies, he may have the mind of Christ, placing himself under the moulding influence of the Holy Spirit. {ST, November 11, 1897 par. 4}


What are these quotes saying?
They are saying that conversion is a total "about face" not a "completed work".

Conversion is falling at the foot of the cross in repentance of sin and great desire to be rid of sin, and a longing to glorify God in our lives.


Conversion, in the above quotes, is said to be "submissive to the Spirit of the Lord." {19MR 290.4}

And what does the Spirit of the Lord do?
According to Romans 8:13-14 The Holy Spirit leads us to put to death the unrighteous deeds of the flesh.
It doesn't say they are all put to death in a moment.

At conversion we commit ourselves to being submissive to the Spirit of the Lord.

The next quote says:
" The sinner must enter into the renovating process"

Notice it says "process" not an immediate and completed renovation all at once.

"True conversion means a radical change of heart"
This is the key.
Conversion means a complete change of attitude -- an about face -- where once we wanted to sin, now we want to serve God.


"he may have the mind of Christ, placing himself under the moulding influence of the Holy Spirit."

Notice again it is "moulding influence" not an instantaneous work.

2 Cor. 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory (character) of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory (character) to glory (character), even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Again this verse depicts a process, we need to behold the character of Christ, and as we behold HIM the Holy Spirit leads us step by step into increasing likeness to His character.

It is through JUSTIFICATION that we are immediately made complete and whole -- as if we had never sinned. A gift from Christ imputing His righteousness to our account.

SANCTIFICATION is the work of a life time, as God imparts to us the characteristics of godliness through His power and our submissive obedience to His will.


"The work of transformation from unholiness to holiness is a continuous one. Day by day God labors for man's sanctification, and man is to co-operate with Him, putting forth persevering efforts in the cultivation of right habits. He is to add grace to grace; and as he thus works on the plan of addition, God works for him on the plan of multiplication. {AA 532.2}

"Sanctification is not the work of a moment, an hour, a day, but of a lifetime. It is not gained by a happy flight of feeling, but is the result of constantly dying to sin, and constantly living for Christ. Wrongs cannot be righted nor reformations wrought in the character by feeble, intermittent efforts. It is only by long, persevering effort, sore discipline, and stern conflict, that we shall overcome. AA 561

"Sanctification is a progressive work. The successive steps are set before us in the words of Peter: "Giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; and to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; and to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ" 2 Peter 1:5-8.

"Set your mark high, and step by step, even though it be by painful effort, by self-denial and sacrifice, ascend the whole length of the ladder of progress. COL 331


"God leads His people on, step by step. He brings them up to different points calculated to manifest what is in the heart. Some endure at one point, but fall off at the next. At every advanced point the heart is tested and tried a little closer. 23 {CCh 55.1}

Are we saying the same thing?

Re: How does the Bible describe the Process of Conversion? [Re: Mountain Man] #167012
07/22/14 02:02 PM
07/22/14 02:02 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Or, do you think I'm saying something different?

Re: How does the Bible describe the Process of Conversion? [Re: Mountain Man] #167014
07/22/14 02:24 PM
07/22/14 02:24 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Selfishness prevents us from beholding God. The self-seeking spirit judges of God as altogether such a one as itself. Until we have renounced this, we cannot understand Him who is love. Only the unselfish heart, the humble and trustful spirit, shall see God as "merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth." Exodus 34:6. {DA 302.3}

When we live by faith on the Son of God, the fruits of the Spirit will be seen in our lives; not one will be missing. {DA 676.4}

In all who will submit themselves to the Holy Spirit a new principle of life is to be implanted; the lost image of God is to be restored in humanity. . . The change can be made only by the Holy Spirit. . . The heart must be converted and sanctified. . . True obedience is the outworking of a principle within. . . The natural inclinations are softened and subdued. New thoughts, new feelings, new motives, are implanted. A new standard of character is set up--the life of Christ. The mind is changed; the faculties are roused to action in new lines. Man is not endowed with new faculties, but the faculties he has are sanctified. The conscience is awakened. We are endowed with traits of character that enable us to do service for God. {COL 96-98}

All righteous attributes of character dwell in God as a perfect, harmonious whole, and every one who receives Christ as a personal Saviour is privileged to possess these attributes. {COL 330.2}

Often the question arises, Why, then, are there so many, claiming to believe God's word, in whom there is not seen a reformation in words, in spirit, and in character? Why are there so many who cannot bear opposition to their purposes and plans, who manifest an unholy temper, and whose words are harsh, overbearing, and passionate? There is seen in their lives the same love of self, the same selfish indulgence, the same temper and hasty speech, that is seen in the life of the worldling. There is the same sensitive pride, the same yielding to natural inclination, the same perversity of character, as if the truth were wholly unknown to them. The reason is that they are not converted. {COL 99.1}

Re: How does the Bible describe the Process of Conversion? [Re: Mountain Man] #167016
07/22/14 02:31 PM
07/22/14 02:31 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Some people read the passages posted above and insist they must be interpreted to mean - Newborn believers are born again ignorantly practicing some of the sinful habits they cultivated prior to experiencing conversion in God's appointed way. The Holy Spirit leaves them in darkness until the time is right. They are lacking some fruit and righteous attributes which the Holy Spirit will gradually implant over time.

Is it true? Are people born again incomplete? Are they converted ignorantly practicing cultivated sinful habits?

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