dedication - read again the following which fits the OT and shows how God is ultimately involved:

Satan works through the elements also to garner his harvest of unprepared souls. He has studied the secrets of the laboratories of nature, and he uses all his power to control the elements as far as God allows. When he was suffered to afflict Job, how quickly flocks and herds, servants, houses, children, were swept away, one trouble succeeding another as in a moment. It is God that shields His creatures and hedges them in from the power of the destroyer. But the Christian world have shown contempt for the law of Jehovah; and the Lord will do just what He has declared that He would--He will withdraw His blessings from the earth and remove His protecting care from those who are rebelling against His law and teaching and forcing others to do the same. Satan has control of all whom God does not especially guard. He will favor and prosper some in order to further his own designs, and he will bring trouble upon others and lead men to believe that it is God who is afflicting them. {GC 589.2}

From a posting on FB:

“God will use His enemies as instruments to punish those who have followed their own pernicious ways whereby the truth of God has been misrepresented, misjudged, and dishonored.--{PC 136 (1894)}.

Again, this is Biblical language, the "language of wrath," as a generic term, which is a description of the concept wherein God is represented as doing that which He allows. The reason for this is because God, being sovereign, takes responsibility for all that happens. Not culpability, mind you, but responsibility. Further, God allows all things because His government is based upon freedom of choice. Along with that freedom comes the justice, wherein God must stand aside and let the consequences play out, even unto death, if repentance does not come. And here is where the "hardening" comes in. God destroys by trying to save. It is like this: God comes to the patient with a terminal illness, with the remedy. When the patient refuses the remedy, God destroys Him by not forcing Him to take the remedy. It is not our way of thinking, but it is what it is.

Divine wrath is represented as God "hiding His face," "giving over," "giving up," "sparing not," etc. He ever attempts to remain in the picture, in His role as Sustainer and Protector, but will not cross the line into interfering with the will of the free moral agent. Ponder this statement: "Let ministers and people remember that GOSPEL TRUTH RUINS IF IT DOES NOT SAVE. The soul that refuses to listen to the invitations of mercy from day to day can soon listen to the most urgent appeals without an emotion stirring his soul" {5T 134.1}. Question: does the gospel truth actually ruin, or is this a manner of speaking? The fact is, the REFUSAL of gospel truth ruins and the guilt of choosing to reject it falls upon the head of the one who refuses, while the responsibility for advancing with the light of gospel truth rests with God.

That God "uses His enemies as instruments to punish" is hard-core Biblical language! We cannot take this as literal language in the Greek way of thinking. If we were to do so, we end up with a God whose government is like men's ways, based upon rewards and punishments. Also, we have a God who overrides the will of His enemies to make them do His dirty work. A "user" God. We know that none of this is like God, so we must be looking for Bible keys to interpret this sort of language. Also, there is a whole world of context which has huge significance, as we would look into man's view of deity in the ancient cultures of Bible times. Dr. Jean Sheldon at PUC addresses this in a recent lecture series on the wrath of God, well worth taking in. This subject is coming front and center at this time, as it must. It is about time that we get this all sorted out.

Will the redeemed sing only the song of the Lamb?
Or will they also sing the song of Moses?

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There are at least two songs that Moses wrote. One was sung after the crossing of the Red Sea (Exodus 15), and the other was written in the last days of Moses’ life, in Deuteronomy 32.

Since Revelation 15 is in the setting of the plagues when God moves to deliver His people, and Exodus 15 is Israel's praise of God's Mighty deliverance from the Egyptians, it seems the two match as "the song of Moses and the Lamb".

Now I wonder when the saints sing this song, if you would say, "no, no, we have to change the words".


Exodus 15:3 The LORD [is] a man of war: the LORD [is] his name.
15:4 Pharaoh's chariots and his host hath he cast into the sea: his chosen captains also are drowned in the Red sea.
15:5 The depths have covered them: they sank into the bottom as a stone.
15:6 Thy right hand, O LORD, is become glorious in power: thy right hand, O LORD, hath dashed in pieces the enemy.
15:7 And in the greatness of thine excellency thou hast overthrown them that rose up against thee:




By the quote from GC 589 which you shared in answer to my previous post, would we have to change the words to: --

Satan works through the elements as the man of war,
It was not the Lord that cast Pharaoh's chariots into the sea,
It was not the Lord that delivered us,
It was satan's power that killed the Egyptians.
The Lord withdrew and satan destroyed our enemies and overthrew those who rose up against us.


That's blasphemy isn't it?
Satan IS NOT Israel's deliverer.
Satan was working WITH Pharaoh against Israel, not the other way around.
If he had his way Israel would have perished, and Egypt would have triumphed.

The quote you used is talking about satan's malice, it is not talking about the mighty acts of God's deliverance.

It was God WHO delivered Israel with a mighty hand from the power of the Egyptians.
God saved His people from their enemies.


15:9 The enemy said, I will pursue, I will overtake, I will divide the spoil; my lust shall be satisfied upon them; I will draw my sword, my hand shall destroy them.
15:10 Thou didst blow with thy wind, the sea covered them: they sank as lead in the mighty waters.
15:11 Who [is] like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? who [is] like thee, glorious in holiness, fearful [in] praises, doing wonders?
15:12 Thou stretchedst out thy right hand, the earth swallowed them.
15:13 Thou in thy mercy hast led forth the people [which] thou hast redeemed:

Though these rules seem well thought out and appropriate, it all boils down to the will of man:

Jesus asked "How readest thou?"

If an individual rightly divides the word of truth -- more truth will come.

If an individual is looking to put a spin on Scripture that is not sustained by Scripture, they will see it as they want to see it. And no amount of persuasion will change their mind as the proverb says, "Though compelled to change against his will, man is of the same opinion still."

And if an individual has settled a question to their satisfaction (even if they did not have all the facts) the matter is settled. Very few will reopen the issue. Their position is staked out and "they would rather fight than switch."

So goes the pitfalls of biblical interpretation.

The human factor is the determining principle in all interpretation of Scripture. And Satan is ever present to cast his shadow between light and the individual. Thus the devil puts his own spin on Bible study, suggests deviated meanings to the Scriptures, and excites doubt and disbelief.

Jesus spent less time predicting the future than He did teaching people how to live in harmony with the will of God. The focus of the Bible is "righteousness and true holiness". Our prophetic persuasions must highlight the cross of Christ and His effect of human hearts. Most prophetic studies sideline salvation. Dates and times, popes and political powers take precedence. The details are important; otherwise, Jesus would not have mentioned them. However, let us not lose sight of the purpose of prophecy - "Christ in you, the hope of glory".

Should one be done and the other undone?

If Jesus is unknown to the Bible prophecy student, why bother to study the Bible? And if Jesus is revealed in Scripture, why not teach Present Truth: it will reveal Jesus. Amen

Are you saying the GC589 is blasphemy? Or is it really revelatory? How is God's power at work? Does the story of Job hold no reverlation?

In the book of Revelation, is it God that causes the 7 last plagues? It is divine power or demonic power at work? It is demonic.

So do SDA's study the Bible anymore?

Or do they just study "official" Bible studies that have been prepared by those who are employed by the denomination to explain the Bible to everybody else?

Bible Study is essential in discerning truth from error.
I don't think anyone here just takes someone else's word but compares it to their reading of scripture.

Mountain Man does have a valid point.
When the study of prophecy turns into repeated attempts to try and fit it all into current events it's just not "present truth" as it will probably all have to be changed again in a year or so.
It's just a hit and miss process with the hopes that one of these times it will be right.

Nor is it correct to say people who don't buy those interpretations do not study the Bible.
What I see as "present truth" and new light is an increased understanding of Christ's work in the heavenly sanctuary, an increased understanding of salvation and righteousness by faith.

"When the books of Daniel and Revelation are better understood, believers will have an entirely different religious experience. They will be given such glimpses of the open gates of heaven that heart and mind will be impressed with the character that all must develop in order to realize the blessedness which is to be the reward of the pure in heart."

When I find those glimpses into the open gates of heaven, then I know there is "new light".

New light brings into focus the elements of salvation by faith
IN CHRIST. The details of the war on earth waged by beasts and the dragon need to be understood in their role against salvation by faith and worship of Our Creator God. But people will always try to use them to outline times and linking them to specific people as if that is what its all about. No -- Scripture tells us to watch and pray for you know NOT the hour--

The third angel is the last message according to the book of Revelation. Ellen White affirmed the message of justification by faith is the third angel's message in verity (See Ev. 190)

I hope SDAs still study the Bible on their own, however, I fear that only a few do it that way.

Are SDAs still a people of the Book?