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Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#167930
09/04/14 02:49 PM
09/04/14 02:49 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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Perhaps the evidence is hard for you to see.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: APL]
#167951
09/05/14 03:58 PM
09/05/14 03:58 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
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"I see," said the blind cripple as he tripped over a hammer and saw.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: asygo]
#168063
09/12/14 02:14 PM
09/12/14 02:14 PM
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OP
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A: Each day he must renew his consecration, each day do battle with evil. Old habits, hereditary tendencies to wrong, will strive for the mastery, and against these he is to be ever on guard, striving in Christ's strength for victory. {AA 476.3} Given that, it is clear that though Jesus battled evil, it was not "just like a born-again believer" since such a one battles his old habits.
M: I guess I wasn't clear. It is not necessary to cultivate sinful traits and habits to battle them. It is only necessary to be human. Jesus was born with the same hereditary traits and tendencies common to humans. Whether cultivated thereafter or not it doesn't matter so far as battling them is concerned. Born-again believers crucify them. They die to them. They are gifted with ingrafted new traits and tendencies. Nevertheless, they must, like Jesus, battle with the latent, residual affects of sinful traits and tendencies.
M: Battling sinful traits and tendencies is the same whether cultivated or inherited. That's how hereditary laws work - for weal or woe. Again, inheriting and possessing sinful traits and tendencies does not count as sinning. No one incurs guilt or condemnation for merely inheriting or having them. Thus, Jesus could be tempted from within without being defiled.
A: So , Jesus was born with old habits, like the rest of us. And battling cultivated tendencies are just the same as battling inherited ones. Hmmmmm..... Do you agree with Ellen White and her thoughts and insights regarding cultivated and inherited traits and tendencies and how they affect infants and children?
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Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#168066
09/12/14 04:12 PM
09/12/14 04:12 PM
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Do you agree with Ellen White and her thoughts and insights regarding cultivated and inherited traits and tendencies and how they affect infants and children? I do not agree with you that EGW said inherited tendencies are the same as cultivated ones. In fact, she said that if you commit sin, it gets harder to fight it the next time. So, I agree with EGW and her thoughts, but not yours. This inherited=cultivated idea is all yours.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#168074
09/13/14 02:16 PM
09/13/14 02:16 PM
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OP
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The traits and tendencies parents cultivate are passed on to their children in the form of hereditary traits and tendencies. They tempt from within in the same way - whether cultivated or not. True, the ones we ourselves cultivate tempt us with more affect.
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Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#168077
09/13/14 02:59 PM
09/13/14 02:59 PM
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True, the ones we ourselves cultivate tempt us with more affect. Does that mean that cultivated tendencies to evil are stronger than inherited tendencies, all else being equal?
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#168120
09/16/14 12:00 AM
09/16/14 12:00 AM
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OP
SDA
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Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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The traits and tendencies we inherit and cultivate will tempt us with more effect. Believers will encounter new, previously unknown, uncultivated traits and tendencies as they journey onward and upward. These may or may not have an equal effect. The traits and tendencies they never encounter have zero effect.
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Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#168126
09/16/14 06:58 AM
09/16/14 06:58 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
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Then why do you believe that Jesus was tempted in the same way as everybody else, even though everybody else has cultivated sin?
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#168130
09/16/14 07:14 AM
09/16/14 07:14 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2021
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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Jesus didn't have sin, either inherited or cultivated. All He had was a body that was physically weakened by sin and which was the more susceptible to sin by virtue of the fact. Yet it was without sin. Jesus never had any sin in His body, of any kind. Period.
Jesus' temptations were fiercer than the ones we are called to bear, because His powers were greater than ours. He actually could have come down from the cross and saved Himself when taunted to do so. That was a tremendous temptation for Him. It tempted Him to exhibit a spirit of revenge, of pride, and of selfishness, all at the same time. One of us would have had no temptation on any of those points at that moment, because it would simply not have been possible for us to have saved ourselves! The pain He was in was more excruciating than that which most any of us will ever feel. Even if we are dying in great agony from cancer, with Jesus as our Exemplar, we have no excuse to complain or sin in any way.
Praise Him for His incomprehensible selflessness and love that strengthened Him to be victorious on our behalf!
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#168135
09/16/14 12:52 PM
09/16/14 12:52 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
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Jesus never had any sin in His body, of any kind. Period. Is the KJV wrong on this point? 1 Peter 2:24 KJV Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. Was Christ not tempted as we are? Hebrews 4:15 KJV For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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