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Re: Should Gentiles Also Be Circumcised Along With The Jews? [Re: Daryl] #168056
09/11/14 08:57 PM
09/11/14 08:57 PM
K
kland  Offline
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I think it is not arbitrary but specific for the "crime". What is your opinion of my thoughts above on post #168030?

Otherwise, do you think the foreskin came into being to cause men trouble?

Re: Should Gentiles Also Be Circumcised Along With The Jews? [Re: Daryl] #168150
09/17/14 12:42 AM
09/17/14 12:42 AM
APL  Offline
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Originally Posted By: kland
I think it is not arbitrary but specific for the "crime". What is your opinion of my thoughts above on post #168030?

Otherwise, do you think the foreskin came into being to cause men trouble?


The "crime" - perhaps you can clarify.
Yes - I think the foreskin came into being because of sin, just as thorns did, and a woman's travail in childbirth, and the snake crawling on its belly. By faith in Christ, we are saved from sin. Circumcision was given to be a sign of Abraham's faith. See {PP 138.1} Genesis 17:11 And you shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant between me and you. What is the covenant? Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, said the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Originally Posted By: kland
While some may argue some health benefits, I don't believe it was given as a health benefit. Who was the first circumcised and why? Wasn't it because he was trying to achieve righteousness by sex?
No question there are health benefits from circumcision, which would be interesting if the foreskin was original equipment. Where do you read righteousness by sex?

Originally Posted By: kland
Imagine you were an Israelite, and you had your eye on a Canaanite woman. You know you are not to mix with them, but she so appeals to you anyway. Who go to her, disrobe, and she looks down at you and says, "Ah, I can see you are an Israelite". All you can do is stutter. And question what are you doing there!

To me, it is quite obvious, circumcision was a sign of separation, a mark of God's people, and to remind them of who and where they should be.
What that the purpose of having Abraham circumcised? He had already had righteousness by faith before circumcision. Was he trying to achieve righteousness by sex? I don't think so. True - it was a distinctive mark.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Should Gentiles Also Be Circumcised Along With The Jews? [Re: Daryl] #168153
09/17/14 01:21 PM
09/17/14 01:21 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Removing the foreskin symbolized the virgin birth - God did not use the male anatomy for the incarnation of His Son.

Re: Should Gentiles Also Be Circumcised Along With The Jews? [Re: APL] #168164
09/17/14 05:44 PM
09/17/14 05:44 PM
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kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: APL
Circumcision was given to be a sign of Abraham's faith. See {PP 138.1} Genesis 17:11 And you shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant between me and you.
And not a covenant of Abraham's own works.

Quote:
What that the purpose of having Abraham circumcised? He had already had righteousness by faith before circumcision. Was he trying to achieve righteousness by sex? I don't think so. True - it was a distinctive mark.
Yes. Abraham thought God needed help and so he tried to achieve God's purpose by sex, to make a nation of himself. God said it wasn't to be by his works, but by his faith. He showed no faith by doing his own works. As a reminder against trying to work things out by his own doing, he received a distinctive mark. Which served as a token of the covenant between God and his people to remind them not to try to work out things by their own doing, but only by their faith in God.

Re: Should Gentiles Also Be Circumcised Along With The Jews? [Re: Daryl] #168180
09/18/14 02:12 AM
09/18/14 02:12 AM
APL  Offline
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Western, USA
Originally Posted By: kland
And not a covenant of Abraham's own works.
Correct

Yes, circumcision is a sign of the Abraham covenant. Yes, he did try to fulfill the promise by his own works. But circumcision for Abraham was for the faith he had before Isaac. Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed to them also:


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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