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Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: asygo]
#168145
09/16/14 11:22 PM
09/16/14 11:22 PM
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OP
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Then why do you believe that Jesus was tempted in the same way as everybody else, even though everybody else has cultivated sin? Because inherited traits and tendencies tempted Jesus from within to indulge innocent and legitimate needs in sinful ways.
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Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#168159
09/17/14 03:52 PM
09/17/14 03:52 PM
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Then why do you believe that Jesus was tempted in the same way as everybody else, even though everybody else has cultivated sin? Because inherited traits and tendencies tempted Jesus from within to indulge innocent and legitimate needs in sinful ways. But if cultivated traits are stronger than inherited ones, then mine are stronger than His. And if inherited traits come from parents, then mine are worse than His.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: asygo]
#168161
09/17/14 04:45 PM
09/17/14 04:45 PM
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Then why do you believe that Jesus was tempted in the same way as everybody else, even though everybody else has cultivated sin? Because inherited traits and tendencies tempted Jesus from within to indulge innocent and legitimate needs in sinful ways. But if cultivated traits are stronger than inherited ones, then mine are stronger than His. And if inherited traits come from parents, then mine are worse than His. I just had this discussion at church on Sabbath. Children are not born with cultivated traits, they just have inherited tendencies when they are born. Everything they learn is from the enviroment which can be enhanced because of their tendencies, but I feel enviroment is much more influential so the parents are very important in how a child grows up and learns, but Satan is there also teaching sin using temptations like that with Eve with his evil angels. So children pick up prejudices, behavioural cues, basically learn to do evil unless there is something that turns them to Gods way. The example I always use is that if you take twins and put each one in a different enviroment, what do you think will happen...
Last edited by Rick H; 09/17/14 04:47 PM.
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Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#168167
09/17/14 07:54 PM
09/17/14 07:54 PM
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The Son of God was assaulted at every step by the powers of darkness. After His baptism He was driven of the Spirit into the wilderness, and suffered temptation for forty days. Letters have been coming in to me, affirming that Christ could not have had the same nature as man, for if He had, He would have fallen under similar temptations. If He did not have man's nature, He could not be our example. If He was not a partaker of our nature, He could not have been tempted as man has been. If it were not possible for Him to yield to temptation, He could not be our helper. It was a solemn reality that Christ came to fight the battles as man, in man's behalf. His temptation and victory tell us that humanity must copy the Pattern; man must become a partaker of the divine nature. {1SM 408.1}
In Christ, divinity and humanity were combined. Divinity was not degraded to humanity; divinity held its place, but humanity by being united to divinity withstood the fiercest test of temptation in the wilderness. The prince of this world came to Christ after His long fast, when He was an hungered, and suggested to Him to command the stones to become bread. But the plan of God, devised for the salvation of man, provided that Christ should know hunger, and poverty, and every phase of man's experience. He withstood the temptation, through the power that man may command. He laid hold on the throne of God, and there is not a man or woman who may not have access to the same help through faith in God. Man may become a partaker of the divine nature; not a soul lives who may not summon the aid of Heaven in temptation and trial. Christ came to reveal the source of His power, that man might never rely on his unaided human capabilities. {1SM 408.2}
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Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Rick H]
#168171
09/17/14 10:18 PM
09/17/14 10:18 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
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Then why do you believe that Jesus was tempted in the same way as everybody else, even though everybody else has cultivated sin? Because inherited traits and tendencies tempted Jesus from within to indulge innocent and legitimate needs in sinful ways. But if cultivated traits are stronger than inherited ones, then mine are stronger than His. And if inherited traits come from parents, then mine are worse than His. I just had this discussion at church on Sabbath. Children are not born with cultivated traits, they just have inherited tendencies when they are born. Everything they learn is from the enviroment which can be enhanced because of their tendencies, but I feel enviroment is much more influential so the parents are very important in how a child grows up and learns, but Satan is there also teaching sin using temptations like that with Eve with his evil angels. So children pick up prejudices, behavioural cues, basically learn to do evil unless there is something that turns them to Gods way. The example I always use is that if you take twins and put each one in a different enviroment, what do you think will happen... We are told that Jesus experienced temptations stronger than any sinner will ever have to face. If Jesus never cultivated sin, and we know that many sinners have terrible temptations, from whence came Christ's strong temptations? If the environment is so significant in temptations, what was in Christ's environment that rivaled the environment of the worst sinners? It couldn't have been Joseph and Mary's management, since they were good people.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#168175
09/18/14 12:51 AM
09/18/14 12:51 AM
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OP
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Sinful flesh tempted Jesus from within. Evil tempted Him from without.
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Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#168193
09/18/14 03:29 PM
09/18/14 03:29 PM
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SDA
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Sinful flesh tempted Jesus from within. Evil tempted Him from without. Given that His earthly parents were consecrated, and He Himself never cultivated any evil, it is likely that His flesh was not as sinful as the average sinner's. And compared to world-class sinners, His flesh would have been sparkling clean. But also given that He was tempted more than any of us will ever be temped, we must also conclude that His external temptations were much much more than we face.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#168218
09/19/14 12:33 PM
09/19/14 12:33 PM
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OP
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Well said, Arnold. He was tempted from within and from without like a born again believer - not like an unbeliever. He was tempted on all points. He was tempted proportionate to His ability to resist (1 Cor 10:13) which happens to exceed what believers can handle.
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Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#168237
09/19/14 07:46 PM
09/19/14 07:46 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
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Joined: Feb 2006
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His temptations were tied to His ability to resist, not His inclination to fall.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#168254
09/20/14 12:41 PM
09/20/14 12:41 PM
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OP
SDA
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The strength of Jesus' temptations were tied to His ability to resist. The source of His temptations included sinful flesh and evil beings. He took upon Himself human nature, and was tempted in all points as human nature is tempted. {5BC 1128.4}
He was tempted in all points as man is tempted, but not once did He fail to follow the path He had chosen. {UL 92.3}
Unless there is a possibility of yielding, temptation is no temptation. Temptation is resisted when man is powerfully influenced to do a wrong action and, knowing that he can do it, resists, by faith, with a firm hold upon divine power. This was the ordeal through which Christ passed. He could not have been tempted in all points as man is tempted, had there been no possibility of His failing. He was a free agent, placed on probation, as was Adam, and as is every man. In His closing hours, while hanging upon the cross, He experienced to the fullest extent what man must experience when striving against sin. He realized how bad a man may become by yielding to sin. He realized the terrible consequences of the transgression of God's law; for the iniquity of the whole world was upon Him (YI July 20, 1899). {5BC 1082.4}
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