Blinders, arrogance, maybe someone else can help me with the word I'm looking for here.


Green to APL: You didn't answer the question. Yes or no will do. Or are you saying that your heart is too deceitful to give a straight answer?

APL: Hold no parleying with Satan, but meet him with "It is written."
Like Christ, we should be able to meet the enemy in time of temptation with, "It is written." {SD 134.8}

Green: Satan quoted scripture to Jesus too, but he misapplied it, even as you are doing. Therefore, get thee behind me Satan.


Green, do you intend to attempt to make us believe that APL does not believe what the Bible says? Do you think he is saying he doesn't believe what the Bible says? Do you suppose that he may think that he believes what the Bible says and is sorry that you don't? Many times you make up what the Bible says, claiming it is simple step in logic, to come to your personal conclusion.

Or is this another example of you being deceitful to try to get your way? I wasn't talking about the Bible, but was addressing you being deceitful and misapplying it. Do you think I am claiming this ISN'T what the Bible says? You even admit you do not believe there were guns involved. So why are you making a comparison to the type of war in heaven with the war of ISIS, which involves guns?

In what way is the attitude expressed any different from the papacy, Hitler, ISIS, and others feel about themselves?

kland,

Here is my perception of the conversation thus far:

I quoted the Bible saying that Michael fought during the war in heaven. You came back with asking me if I were being deceitful. I answered that the Bible is not deceitful (for I had but used the Bible's own words). Now you tell me, again, that I am being deceitful.

Now, if this is not how you perceive it, please be more clear in what you were focused upon. If this IS how you perceived it, I would like you to tell me where in the Bible you get the idea that there was NOT a war in Heaven, or that Michael (Jesus) did NOT fight. If you can establish those counter-biblical "truths," then I will accept that I was being deceitful. Until then, perhaps I shall leave off parleying, as APL so aptly reminds us to do.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

It is indeed my perception that APL does not accept nor believe that Jesus would ever fight, despite the fact the Bible tells us this. Let him clarify this point for himself, if he will.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Green, APL quotes Bible verses the same as you do.


In case you missed it above:
"So why are you making a comparison to the type of war in heaven with the war of ISIS, which involves guns?"

Is this not being deceitful on your part?

Guess I missed the fact that that was your focus. It looked more like a rhetorical question to me.

If you want an answer to that, my first thought would be that both wars are alike battles against evil. In fact, all of the Great Controversy has been such a war. Good will triumph in the end, thankfully.

We know from the Bible, however, that angels do indeed fight with swords. I suppose it matters little whether it is a sword or a gun...both are used to kill. God's angels can be mighty warriors.

Did God love the soldiers in Sennacherib's army? He certainly did. Why did God command His angel to kill them?

This thread, however, is supposedly focused upon what our response should be. My personal response to ISIS is non-existent and moot, seeing as I have no contact with them. If I were to meet them, my duty would be to show Jesus to them in any way possible--whether that means driving them out of God's temple in holy indignation, or giving them a glass of cold water to quench their thirst. Each one should be in tune with God's Spirit to know the wisest course of action in every situation.

Where I work, my choices are a bit different: do I love them all by telling them about Jesus? or do I love them by NOT telling them all, so that I can avoid deportation or imprisonment which will prevent me from having additional opportunities to teach here. One must be prudent and discrete: the serpent and the dove.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

I thank God daily for our troops who are working to stop ISIS.

Do angels indeed fight with instruments of iron? If not, why are you making a comparison to the type of war in heaven with the war of ISIS, which involves guns? and instruments of iron?

Pray for our troops as they fight to preserve freedom.

We cannot know how much we owe to Christ for the peace and protection which we enjoy. It is the restraining power of God that prevents mankind from passing fully under the control of Satan. The disobedient and unthankful have great reason for gratitude for God's mercy and long-suffering in holding in check the cruel, malignant power of the evil one.

Our troops? Nope. Christ is the only one.