Unfortunately, I am not able to practice the plant based diet I had when I was living in the USA. I am getting a lot closer to it though.

It is proposed that vitamin B-12 only comes from flesh food. Yet, on 3ABN with Brother MacIntosh, a doctor said the bacteria needed to make vitamin B-12 is in our own mouths and colon. He said the issue is bacteria, not plant based or meat based.

This would suggest to me that our own bodies can make vitamin B-12.

Does anyone have any more information on this issue?

This has been discussed here before. There is a lot of information, as well as misinformation, about vitamin B12 floating around.

Dr. MacIntosh is correct that the vitamin may be produced to a limited extent in the mouth, and to a much greater extent in the colon. However, if he has tried to lead people to believe that the B12 produced in the colon is of any value to the individual, he has been deceptive. Vitamin B12 is not absorbed to any degree in the colon. It is absorbed in the small intestine. So by the time bacteria of the colon produce their B12, it is too far along the GI track to be of any use.

B12 is perhaps the largest nutrient (molecule size) that the body requires. It is so large that even the small intestine will not absorb it naturally. It will not fit through the small pores in the intestinal wall. It requires intrinsic factor for it to be absorbed. Intrinsic factor basically taps the lining of the intestine and "persuades" the intestine to open a larger hole to admit the B12 molecule. Once the B12 has then passed into the bloodstream, the hole must be reclosed, lest bacteria and whatnot all else pass through as well.

Because of the need for intrinsic factor, even if one takes B12 by mouth (supplement form), or has oral bacteria making it, it may not be absorbed. Meat eaters, by the same token, can become very deficient in B12. Unfortunately, intrinsic factor is not well-studied. There is limited information about it, more limited than on the B12 itself. One factor, however, is stomach acid. Those who are under a lot of stress make less stomach acid, as well as older people in general. A weakened stomach leads to a reduction in intrinsic factor.

I took IM shots of cyanocobalamin, one shot a week, during a year of studies at a self-supporting school with an entirely vegan diet. I still became deficient. For myself, I must remain lacto-ovo vegetarian, especially in this part of the world where circumstances are different from those in more prosperous countries.

Mrs. White said much about the benefits of eggs. She never called it a sin to eat them, though she stipulated that they should be from healthy hens. Likewise, her statement about the most healthful diet includes milk and cream. God has given us these instructions for our benefit.

Dr. Mercola has some of the better research on questions like this, and the website veganhealth.org also has some things (though they are still biased toward veganism and do not always show the full balance of the research).

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Just an FYI - "Dr. MacIntosh" is Don MacIntosh, RN, MDiv.

And another FYI - you don't get Intrinsic factor from eggs.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I did want to mention that the doctor on 3ABN said any B-12 in the colon was useless. But, he did seem to say that oral B-12 was available, although I don't remember him mentioning "intrinsic factor".

I have never been completely vegan myself, although I like to be close to that. Dairy and eggs are usually good for me though. The Bible does mention "milk and honey".

But, I have really become more interested in the ability of the body to heal itself and just how dependable the body is at healing itself.

I see Suzanne has a lot of threads here and I am interested in learning more.

The oral B12 is likely far too little for those who brush their teeth. The only hope I've seen of vegans obtaining sufficient B12 (looking at an entire people group) was based, not on oral bacteria, but on unsanitary eating habits. The people studied would not wash their vegetables carefully, and it was thought that the bacteria from the soil and environs provided above-average levels of B12.

I have never seen a good study supporting an uptake of maintenance-level B12 from oral bacteria alone. To the contrary, most studies point away from such a conclusion.

Many would like to think that the Edenic diet is more saintly on account of being more original. When they discover the Tree of Life, I'll agree with them. Until then, there are some nutrients that the fruit of the Tree of Life may well have had which we now lack. Some of those may be found in additional sources, including vegetables (herb of the field) and certain of the flesh foods. Jesus commanded His people to eat some of these things after the Fall.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

And the Bible does mention fish, cattle, quail, sheep, goats, etc.

But Ellen White does say that those among the 144,000 will not be eating eggs, milk, or cream.

Green, why does "herb of the field" mean "vegetable" to you?

Really? Where?



What do you call such things as potatoes, carrots, broccoli, green beans, onions, tomatoes, peppers, eggplants, squash, cucumbers, lettuce, cabbage, turnips, parsnips, sweet potatoes, celery, spinach, chives, and other such "produce," often called "truck vegetables" that one might grow in his or her garden?

To most everyone, they are vegetables--fit for a vegetable salad, a vegetable soup/stew, etc. A few excerpts from Mrs. White show how she classed some of these foods as "vegetables" as well.



Of course, vitamin B-12 does not come from vegetables. But a little milk or cream helps to form the best diet, according to Mrs. White. There's probably a reason she said so.

The Bible has nothing against milk or honey--these were spoken of in glowing terms with respect to the land of Canaan. They are both animal products. But the Bible tells us such things as "my son, eat honey, for it is sweet"! Jesus multiplied fish by the thousands to feed people. If He had so desired, He could have produced manna instead. Evidently, then, eating some fish, some milk, or some honey, is not a sin--which might surprise some Adventists these days. Ellen White adds eggs to the acceptables list.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

I would agree. For most of them. What do you call strawberries, raspberries, blackberries, watermelon, cantaloupe and other such "produce," that one might grow in his or her garden?


But my real question is, why does "herb of the field" mean "vegetable" to you?

Once again, Vitamin B12 does not come from vegetables. (HINT: We are off-topic.) But as you are obsessed with why I consider the "herb of the field" to be vegetables, consider the following evidence. First, the original diet, as prescribed in the Bible; then the new diet given after sin.

Original diet:



Above, Mrs. White only mentions the fruits, grains, and nuts as part of the "simple diet," and appears to omit the nuts in speaking of the original diet, though she had already mentioned them and probably was not meaning to be exhaustive again.

Diet after the Fall (and before the Flood):


So, after sin, God added vegetables to our diet. Mrs. White obviously read the "herb of the field" to mean vegetables. I suppose I could ask you why you do not? or do you also read it the same way?

Where does the "herb of the field" grow? Certainly not in an orchard, grove, or hedgerow bush. It grows where one must "till the soil." No one tills an orchard (usually). A field must be tilled, and requires a bit more "sweat of the brow" to cause it to produce a harvest. Trees yield their fruit year after year with very little maintenance.

I suppose you could include strawberries as "of the field." They're not my favorite anyhow.

Now, for the B-12, maybe you need to upgrade your diet and add "bacteria of the field," and/or "bacteria of the soil."

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.