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Re: If One kills those who disagree with Him, does that show love? [Re: kland] #169199
10/21/14 09:07 PM
10/21/14 09:07 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
The Jews disobeyed and rebelled. Jesus disciplined them.

Re: If One kills those who disagree with Him, does that show love? [Re: kland] #169203
10/21/14 11:28 PM
10/21/14 11:28 PM
asygo  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
Originally Posted By: kland
Do you agree killing your son is not a solution?

It all depends on the answers to the questions you didn't answer. Would depriving the son of life-giving resources count as killing?


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: If One kills those who disagree with Him, does that show love? [Re: kland] #169226
10/22/14 05:44 PM
10/22/14 05:44 PM
K
kland  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,416
Midland
Do you mean by using force to deprive your son?

Re: If One kills those who disagree with Him, does that show love? [Re: kland] #169227
10/22/14 09:21 PM
10/22/14 09:21 PM
asygo  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
Depends what you mean by force. The father just stops giving the son anything he requires to live. No more anything. As if the father did not exist. Does that count as the father killing the son?


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: If One kills those who disagree with Him, does that show love? [Re: kland] #169249
10/23/14 08:12 PM
10/23/14 08:12 PM
K
kland  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Midland
Given that the son is able to go out and "hurt, injure, damage, and kill as many as he can", I would say, no.

Re: If One kills those who disagree with Him, does that show love? [Re: kland] #169251
10/23/14 10:37 PM
10/23/14 10:37 PM
asygo  Offline
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Posts: 5,583
California, USA
So if I refused to feed and clothe my son and let him starve and freeze to death, I'm still in the clear?

BTW, just because one is able to "hurt, injure, damage, and kill as many as he can" does not mean that such a one is self-existent. He may still need help from others in order to live.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: If One kills those who disagree with Him, does that show love? [Re: kland] #169341
10/27/14 04:43 PM
10/27/14 04:43 PM
K
kland  Offline OP
SDA
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,416
Midland
Given that you said:
Quote:
Let's say my son tells me that his life goal was to hurt, injure, and damage himself before ultimtely committing suicide. On top of that, he will make every effort to hurt, injure, damage, and kill as many as he can in the meantime. I certainly would not be agreeable to such a plan.
It seems to me that your son would be "self-existent".

Me thinks you are attempting to make your rhetorical question into a real question and you are having problems doing it. Otherwise, you are trying to take some rather odd and obtuse situation and make generalities out of it. Which still comes back that killing your son is not an option. If your son is suffering from mental problems, perhaps a loving thing to do is seek help for him rather than killing him.

Re: If One kills those who disagree with Him, does that show love? [Re: kland] #169342
10/27/14 04:50 PM
10/27/14 04:50 PM
K
kland  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,416
Midland
Deut 22:8 "When you build a new house, then you shall make a parapet for your roof, that you may not bring guilt of bloodshed on your household if anyone falls from it.

Why? The one who fails to build a parapet would not harbor hate to those who fell, he would not be planning their deaths, he merely had other things to do and the death was only an accident. If the commandment somehow makes some sort of distinction between killing and murder, then why this statement?

Isn't this really saying there is not distinction, that accidents can happen, but one should do all in their power to prevent them? Isn't this what love really is about rather than killing those who disagree with you?

Re: If One kills those who disagree with Him, does that show love? [Re: kland] #169343
10/27/14 09:15 PM
10/27/14 09:15 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
Originally Posted By: kland
Given that you said:
Quote:
Let's say my son tells me that his life goal was to hurt, injure, and damage himself before ultimtely committing suicide. On top of that, he will make every effort to hurt, injure, damage, and kill as many as he can in the meantime. I certainly would not be agreeable to such a plan.
It seems to me that your son would be "self-existent".

Me thinks you are attempting to make your rhetorical question into a real question and you are having problems doing it. Otherwise, you are trying to take some rather odd and obtuse situation and make generalities out of it. Which still comes back that killing your son is not an option. If your son is suffering from mental problems, perhaps a loving thing to do is seek help for him rather than killing him.

Just because one is able to hurt and kill does not mean one is self-existent. My son could do all sorts of damage, but if I stop feeding and clothing him, he would die shortly after. Consider Satan. Self-governing does not imply self-existent.

Or maybe I misunderstood what you are trying to say. Are you trying to say that if God just went away completely, and ceased all interactions with Satan, that Satan would still continue to exist? That would be self-existent.

Me thinks you thinks.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: If One kills those who disagree with Him, does that show love? [Re: kland] #169367
10/28/14 03:27 PM
10/28/14 03:27 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Isn't it odd that APL and Kland have no problem with Jesus withdrawing HIs protection and permitting evil men and evil angels to cause unspeakable carnage - carnage that often includes the suffering and death of innocent women and children.

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