Kland, you haven't said what you believe. I know you believe Jesus withdraws His protection and permits evildoers to rape and murder innocent women and children. What you haven't said is why you think Jesus does so. APL believes it is because Jesus is morally or legally bound by freewill to permit it, not to intervene and prevent it. To intervene and prevent is to violate freewill.

I believe Jesus does so "for reasons that make sense to Him." He is not morally or legally bound to respect the freedom to follow through with the desire to rape and murder innocent women and children.. They are free to desire, but not free to follow through. Whether or not they follow through is up to Jesus. He is free to intervene and prevent it. But not always. Sometimes circumstances force Him to permit it. Why? Again - "for reasons that make sense to Him." Not because He is morally or legally bound.

1) Do you think Jesus is free to impress someone to show up at just the right time to prevent an evildoer from hurting an innocent woman or child? Yes, of course.

2) Do you think Jesus is free to cause a gun to misfire when an evildoers pulls the trigger intending to murder an innocent woman or child? Yes, of course.

3) Do you think Jesus is free to allow an evildoer to have a heart attack while attempting to hurt an innocent woman or child in order to prevent it? Yes, of course.

4) Do you think Jesus is free to work to prevent evildoers from exceeding the limits of evil He is willing to permit? Yes, of course.

My answer to these kinds of questions demonstrates what I mean about Jesus permitting evildoers to desire evil but Jesus intervening and preventing them from following through with their evil desires. He does so without violating freewill. But the real question is why Jesus sometimes does not. Why He permits them to follow through. Again, I believe the answer is - "for reasons that make sense to Him." You haven't answered the question. Please do.

I do not know where I stated such.

I agree with you that Jesus is free to 1-4 of #170389.

But you did not answer my question.

MM, do you believe Jesus is NOT free to 1-4 of #170389?


I have said many times what I believe. You say you don't know what I believe. You say you don't know why Jesus permits evildoers to act. Do you know whether you believe Jesus is NOT free to 1-4 of #170389?

I know you believe Jesus withdraws His protection and permits evil men and evil angels to cause death, disease, and destruction.

I guess I don't know what you believe about the rape and murder of innocent women and children. Why does Jesus permit it? Why doesn't He intervene and prevent it?


I explained why - "for reasons that make sense to Him." Yes, Jesus is free on both accounts - 1) free to intervene and prevent, and 2) free not to intervene and prevent. However, Jesus always does the best thing. He never does the wrong thing. Does it mean, then, He is not truly free? No, of course not.

Jesus always gives evildoers the freedom to desire evil ideas and outcomes. But they are not free to follow through. Only if He permits it. And then only within the limits He sets and enforces.

What do you think I have not shown from the Bible or the SOP?

APL, do you believe Jesus is free to intervene and prevent evildoers from following through with their evil desires to steal, rape, murder, etc? For example:

1) Do you think Jesus is free to impress someone to show up at just the right time to prevent an evildoer from hurting an innocent woman or child?

2) Do you think Jesus is free to cause a gun to misfire when an evildoers pulls the trigger intending to murder an innocent woman or child?

3) Do you think Jesus is free to allow an evildoer to have a heart attack while attempting to hurt an innocent woman or child in order to prevent it?

4) Do you think Jesus is free to work to prevent evildoers from exceeding the limits of evil He is willing to permit?

1) If they no longer possess the ability or freedom to choose are they culpable?
2) Can God hold them accountable for their evil deeds during the final judgment?
3) Do such people exist today? If so, to what purpose does Jesus continue to give them life and breath?
4) Is Jesus free to intervene and prevent them from hurting innocent women and children?