HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield, Dina, Nelson
1323 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,189
Posts195,525
Members1,323
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
kland 15
Rick H 15
Daryl 4
March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Member Spotlight
dedication
dedication
Canada
Posts: 6,411
Joined: April 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
3 registered members (Karen Y, 2 invisible), 2,847 guests, and 5 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 3 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Re: The Counterfeit Kingdom [Re: dedication] #170761
12/20/14 11:01 PM
12/20/14 11:01 PM
dedication  Offline OP
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,411
Canada
I didn't address it because this thread is not an exposition of Revelation 17, but rather a thread to expose the false kingdom.

"the eighth head is not really another “head” it is the beast itself" (Rev. 17:11)

That statement is taken straight from the Bible -- so why do I have to "address it"?

Scripture says the scarlet beast has 7 heads,
Scripture tells us THREE TIMES not just once but three times that this scarlet beast has seven heads.
vs. 7,11,13.
Do you believe it or don't you?

It doesn't say the eighth is another head.
17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth
He's the power behind all seven -- he is of the seven.

The seven heads are human kings or kingdoms,
the eighth is the dragon himself.

And yes, he WILL appear pretending to be people who have died, and even pretending to be Christ himself.

" Satan sees that he is about to lose his case. He cannot sweep in the whole world. He makes one last desperate effort to overcome the faithful by deception. He does this in personating Christ. He clothes himself with the garments of royalty which have been accurately described in the vision of John. He has power to do this. He will appear to his deluded followers, the Christian world who received not the love of the truth.. LDE p.164

And there is no reason whatsoever to think the
is, is not, will come (vs 8)
and the
five have fallen, one is, one is yet come (vs 11)
are not speaking of the same times.

And no -- I don't believe Revelation 17 is talking about after the 1000 years, it is talking about the deceptions to take place prior to Christ's coming.

Of course Houteff has to push it off far in the future so people won't think the great deception happens before Christ's coming, and the poor deceived ones will think most of the world will be flowing into their imaginary righteous pre-Christ's coming kingdom.

Yes, the world will be flowing into the Babylonian kingdom -- the whole world (almost) will be worshipping the dragon, the beast, and his image. (Rev. 13)






Re: The Counterfeit Kingdom [Re: dedication] #170762
12/20/14 11:44 PM
12/20/14 11:44 PM
dedication  Offline OP
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,411
Canada
The kings of Israel and Judah were leading the people away from God.

God's Word says: "Remove the diadem and take off the crown; ... I will overturn, overturn, overturn it; and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him." Eze. 21:25-27;

No more kings sitting on the throne in Jerusalem. The remnant of Israel were then subject to Babylon. When Babylon fell, Medo-Persia succeeded. Then when Medo-Persia fell and was succeeded by Grecia, it was overturned the second time. When the Greek empire gave way to Rome, it was overturned the third time. And then scripture says, "It shall be no more, till He come whose right it is; and I will give it him."

Who is He whose right it is?

"Thou . . . shalt call his name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David; and he shall reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there shall be no end." Luke 1:31-33.

And when Christ came the first time, He said, "My kingdom is not of this world."

Thus the throne of the Lord has been removed from this world, and will "be no more, until he come whose right it is," and then it will be given him.

Therefore while this world stands, a true theocracy can never be in it again. There will be no pre-second coming righteous kingdom with a human "David" on the throne.
Indeed scripture tells us when the throne will again be upon the earth, and it will be after the millennium in Rev. 21-22.

Consequently every theory of an earthly theocracy is a false theory; every pretension to it is a false pretension; and wherever any such theory is proposed or advocated, whether by the Papal Bishops of the crumbling Roman Empire in the fourth century, or a modern charismatic pope , or Evangelical Christians of the United States, or by the Shepherd Rod Followers, it is simply on the same program as the Papacy --it puts a man in the place of God.

Re: The Counterfeit Kingdom [Re: dedication] #170768
12/21/14 01:50 AM
12/21/14 01:50 AM
G
Godsloveandlaw  Offline
SDA
Supporting Member 2015
Active Member 2015

Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 500
Coachella Valley, Cailf.
Read this report people , quite thorough on the this beast
Scarlet colored beast

Re: The Counterfeit Kingdom [Re: dedication] #170771
12/21/14 02:53 AM
12/21/14 02:53 AM
dedication  Offline OP
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,411
Canada
The study you linked to mixes truth and error.
Wouldn't you call this "private interpretation"?

The horns represent communists???
Communists will dominate the world's political seat??

It sounds like private interpretation.



But saying Satan will attempt to get the whole world worshipping Him is NOT "private interpretation" it is Biblical.

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon (Satan) which gave power unto the beast (Papal Roman): and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who [is] like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

13:12 And he (the beast with lamblike horns) exercises all the power of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Daniel speaks of this same papal confederacy as the "king of the north" who sets his tabernacles between the seas on the glorious mountain. But he will come to his end.

Quote:
"As we approach the last crisis, it is of vital moment that harmony and unity exist among the Lord's instrumentalities. The world is filled with storm and war and variance. Yet under one head--the papal power--the people will unite to oppose God in the person of His witnesses. {Mar 187.2}
What is it that gives its kingdom to this power? Protestantism, a power which, while professing to have the temper and spirit of a lamb {protestant USA} and to be allied to Heaven, speaks with the voice of a dragon. It is moved by a power from beneath. {Mar 187.3}
"These have one mind." There will be a universal bond of union, one great harmony, a confederacy of Satan's forces. "And shall give their power and strength unto the beast." Thus is manifested the same arbitrary, oppressive power against religious liberty, freedom to worship God according to the dictates of conscience, as was manifested by the papacy, when in the past it persecuted those who dared to refuse to conform with the religious rites and ceremonies of Romanism. {Mar 187.4}








Re: The Counterfeit Kingdom [Re: dedication] #170776
12/21/14 05:41 AM
12/21/14 05:41 AM
G
Godsloveandlaw  Offline
SDA
Supporting Member 2015
Active Member 2015

Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 500
Coachella Valley, Cailf.
Let us look at what Dedication wrote--

Ded-The king of the North is the Papal confederacy.

Now compare this to what Inspiration says in "A word to the Little Flock."--

"I saw all that 'would not receive the mark of the Beast, and of his Image, in their foreheads or in their hands, could not buy or sell. I saw that the number (666) of the Image Beast was made up'." -- p. 19. "Michael is to stand up at the time that the last power in chap. 11, comes to his end, and none to help him. This power...is brought to view in Rev. 13:11-18. His number is 666." -- pp. 8, 9.

The above explains that the two-horned beast is the one to whom the number 666 belongs; and that this beast, of "Revelation 13:11-18," and the "King of the North" of Daniel 11:45, are the same power.

It's quite obvious.No "Papal confederacy" connection to the "King of the North".

Re: The Counterfeit Kingdom [Re: Godsloveandlaw] #170779
12/21/14 06:17 AM
12/21/14 06:17 AM
dedication  Offline OP
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,411
Canada
I already explained that quote is NOT CORRECT.

First off the (666) in parenthesis on page 19 was ADDED by Joseph Bates when he published the tract. He, at the time believed there would be six hundred and sixty six apostate denominations.

The sentences from page 8 and 9 "Michael is to stand up at the time that the last power in chap. 11, comes to his end, and none to help him. This power...is brought to view in Rev. 13:11-18. His number is 666." -- pp. 8, 9.
weren't even written by EGW.
They were written by James White and he changed his views on that shortly after.

The paper WLF contained articles by James White not just her writings.
So I don't know why you have attached those sentences as being hers and called them "inspiration".

Remember this was one of the first things they ever published, and just learning themselves what it all meant.

Also, when EGW published these first visions in her own books she never included the sentence (page 19) that was in her article.

This is what she wrote in her published books

Quote:
The world is filled with storm and war and variance. Yet under one head--the papal power--the people will unite to oppose God in the person of His witnesses. This union is cemented by the great apostate.--7T 182

When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near.--5T 451





Re: The Counterfeit Kingdom [Re: dedication] #170781
12/21/14 06:41 AM
12/21/14 06:41 AM
G
Godsloveandlaw  Offline
SDA
Supporting Member 2015
Active Member 2015

Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 500
Coachella Valley, Cailf.
Ded- First off the (666) in parenthesis on page 19 was ADDED by Joseph Bates when he published the tract. He, at the time believed there would be six hundred and sixty six apostate denominations.

Where do you get this information from? Got a link?

Re: The Counterfeit Kingdom [Re: dedication] #170923
12/28/14 04:25 AM
12/28/14 04:25 AM
dedication  Offline OP
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,411
Canada
Appendix at the end of "Word to Little Flock".

Re: The Counterfeit Kingdom [Re: dedication] #170924
12/28/14 06:45 AM
12/28/14 06:45 AM
G
Godsloveandlaw  Offline
SDA
Supporting Member 2015
Active Member 2015

Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 500
Coachella Valley, Cailf.
Not good enough proof for me. Would need much more than this to believe it. Further we know the history of some of the SDA leaders, for example, How they left alone Ellen White's comment in 1890 about Elijah coming to the church. Then in 1962 some 72 years later they add their asterisk saying she was talking about herself (Test. to Minsters, p.475). they didn't dare add it while brother Houteff was alive and active (up to 1955).

Re: The Counterfeit Kingdom [Re: dedication] #170929
12/28/14 09:12 AM
12/28/14 09:12 AM
dedication  Offline OP
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,411
Canada
Not good enough? But you quoted words that she didn't even write as if they were hers? She did not write the article on pages 8 and 9.
And no acknowledgment from you that you took words from another writer and mixed them in with her statement presenting them as hers.

Also that one sentence has a word added in parenthese-- it was common knowledge that her husband and Joseph Bates added text references and occasional "help" in parentheses, in that early publication --WLF.

Then you pit this one obscure sentence (which she wrote as a letter, not even with the intention that it be published) with it's inserted (666) against all the other things she wrote, in some strange effort to prove the papacy is not what prophecy and EGW says he is in the last days.

Why do you think she left that sentence out of her subsequent published books when she related the same vision?
Could it be that it added thoughts to what God had shown her and caused people to think things that weren't clearly revealed to her? That maybe she didn't quite understand at that point in time.

In fact, from James White's writings we realize they DID NOT have a clear understanding as to what the "666" stood for -- if they had a clear "Thus says the Lord" as you tried to prove, with your mixing sentences from another author with hers, would they have changed their position?

The following is what many believed in 1853
Quote:
Written in Adventist Review Sabbath Herald November 1853 (editor James White)

But, if, as Adventists profess to believe, the Bible be its own expositor, we must find a clue to the man here spoken of, in some part of that Book.
What saith the Scriptures?
Ans. They distinctly bring to view, two definite men, as the heads of the two great antagonistical churches - the Christian and the Antichristian. The one represented by the Man, Christ Jesus, and the other by the "Man of Sin." 2Thess.ii,3. "And that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition." That this man represents the Papal Anti-christian church, we all believe. And he will represent that church until the revelation of Christ. - Verses 8, 9.
The church represented by this man, continued a unit nearly a thousand years after its foundation, when it commenced breaking up under Luther and Calvin, and these divisions have continued dividing and subdividing until, according to the Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, they now number about six hundred three score and six.
We may trace the lineage of every Protestant church back to the mother of harlots, [Rev.xvii,5,] and we can go no further. Not only are they daughters by natural descent, but by imitation... Suffice it to say, the Protestant churches are the daughters, or she has none. But that she has daughters is evident from Rev.xvii,5. In reference to their character, the text says, they are harlots. Now, a harlot mother may have chaste and virtuous daughters; also, harlot daughters may have a virtuous mother; but all, mothers and daughters, are included in the same Babylon (Babel) of confusion. Rev.xvii,5. They are harlots because of their intercourse with the man of sin.
And their number is the number of a man, (the man of sin,) and his number is six hundred three score and six. Those churches collectively or individually have that number. To illustrate, compare the mother and her daughters to one family, represented by one man who is the head of the family; and who represents the whole family; and consequently has the number of the mother and all her daughters, if her family be composed exclusively of daughters.
Or it might be illustrated by a great organization, plural in form, but having a unit sign. - For example, the 1001 Society. The number of the society, collectively, or every division, and every number belonging thereto is, 1001. Hence the number of his name, [Babylon. Rev.xiv,8; xvi,5,] i.e., the church represented by him is, 666; and this is the number of every division of that church, and of every member belonging thereto; hence the number is coupled with the mark and the name of the beast, as a matter of equal importance, and as involving the same consequences. Rev.xvii,15; xv,2. {November 29, 1853 James White editor, ARSH 166.15}


In 1860 that understanding brought on a big problem.
In 1860 steps were taken to organize the Sabbatarian Adventists officially into a recognized church which implied legal incorporation of church property under the laws of the State.
But to do so == many believed they would become part of the 666, for wasn't the 666 the number of all the incorporated religious organizations in America?

To this J. White replied that the number 666 referred to "the papal beast," not to the two-horned beast, and his reasoning was -- that since 1845 people had been saying the number 666 was full, that there was that number of legally organized bodies. But since that time there have been almost numberless divisions, and new associations, and still people are claiming the number is just 666!" (see RH, 16 July 1861, 53)

From that point on --which is basically the whole time the Seventh-day Adventist Church (as a church) has been in existence-- the Adventist position placed the 666 solely on the first beast of Rev. 13. But just how it applied they weren't sure. then Uriah Smith pointed out the name in the pope's crown.


All that being said --
Even if the sentence remains just as it stand -- added 666 and all, the way it was understood in those early years still places the papacy at the head of the confederacy of six hundred sixty six apostate bodies as "the man".

Thus he is still the king of the North-- the head of the papal confederacy that sets his tabernacles on the holy mountain between the seas.


Page 3 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 03/27/24 09:35 AM
Are the words in the Bible "imperfect"?
by Kevin H. 03/24/24 09:02 PM
The Story of David and Goliath
by ProdigalOne. 03/23/24 08:06 PM
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 03/22/24 10:17 AM
Carbon Dioxide What's so Bad about It?
by kland. 03/21/24 12:34 PM
The Value of Bible Types
by TruthinTypes. 03/17/24 06:22 PM
Orion Which Every One on the Globe Can See
by Rick H. 03/16/24 06:26 PM
'Prophet' Summons UFOs
by ProdigalOne. 03/16/24 02:19 AM
Will You Take The Wuhan Virus Vaccine?
by dedication. 03/11/24 06:31 PM
Get That Razor Wire Up!
by kland. 03/05/24 12:49 PM
Messages for This Time
by ProdigalOne. 03/04/24 05:54 AM
The Lake of Fire is Hell
by Rick H. 03/02/24 05:01 PM
Adventist Agriculture
by kland. 02/29/24 12:33 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
The Wound Is Healed! The Mark Is Forming!
by Rick H. 03/27/24 10:36 PM
Are we seeing a outpouring of the Holy Spirit?
by Rick H. 03/24/24 06:50 PM
Time Is Short!
by Rick H. 03/24/24 06:45 PM
Climate Change and the Sunday Law
by Rick H. 03/24/24 06:42 PM
WHAT IS THE VERY END-TIME PROPHECY?
by Rick H. 03/23/24 06:03 PM
Digital Identity Control
by Rick H. 03/23/24 02:08 PM
A.I. - The New God?
by Rick H. 03/23/24 01:59 PM
Christian Nationalism/Sunday/C
limate Change

by ProdigalOne. 03/16/24 08:38 PM
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by Rick H. 03/16/24 06:30 PM
Is There A Connection Between WO & LGBTQ?
by Kevin H. 03/12/24 09:20 PM
A Second American Civil War?
by Daryl. 03/04/24 06:14 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1