Saving grace is what empowers believers to experience saving faith - faith that works by love and purifies the soul. Jesus saves us from our sin debt of death and He saves us from sinning unto "righteousness and true holiness."

"By their fruits ye shall know them." Believers who are abiding in Jesus do not sin. They cannot sin while they are actively, consciously abiding in Jesus. Works without faith is sin. "Whatsoever is not of faith is sin." Genuine faith and godly works are inseparable while actively, consciously abiding in Jesus.


Not everyone takes Jesus at His words. There are people, however, who believe believers are born again incomplete ignorantly retaining and acting out many of the sinful habits they cultivated prior to experiencing rebirth. Neither the Bible nor the SOP support such an idea.

Mike, you seem to be obsessed with this topic.

Hopefully "obsessed" is a good thing. Believing sinning and repenting is normal and happens while abiding in Jesus nearly ruined me. It was the truth that set me free. Misunderstanding is toxic. "These things write I unto you, that ye sin not". Sinning is neither inevitable nor necessary. "For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." Making pardon possible is not the main reason Jesus came in the likeness of sinful flesh. A pardoned sinner is an unprofitable servant. Not until they "go and sin no more" is God's ultimate goal for them achieved.

The reason I created this thread is for the reason that I read somewhere else on the Internet that grace doesn't save, that only faith saves.

Saying faith saves and grace does not save assumes it is possible to have faith without grace. Grace is what makes faith possible. "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace". Rom 4:16. "For by grace are ye saved through faith". Eph 2:8.

Faith is the channel through which we receive grace. If your faith is in the wrong thing - e.g. self, flesh, etc. - you will die.

I think it is both.

Faith is often a cliche; thus not really experienced much by most. Paul defines it in Rom 10:17 quoted below.

The feasts and sacrifices defines what is grace and faith in the two works of Christ:

1 - Justification(Passover) : completed at the cross that paid our debt and impute on us His righteousness. This is actually what Paul's refers to when he said that we "are not under the law, but under grace." He got that from the definition of redemption found in Lev 25.

2- Sanctification(Pentecost) : the offering was 2 leavened(sin) loaves of wheat bread cooked in fire(Holy Spirit)(Lev 23:17). The bread is us, still with sin in us, needing the baptism of the Holy Spirit to stop the action of leaven. The fire represents the "fiery law"(Deut 33:2) that the Spirit speaks to us personally, to teach us righteousness by following His voice and disciplining us when we don't.


1st Work of Justification and Grace

The first work is a type of "grace" work, despite grace is as much part of the second work too.

Because His blood did pay our debt fully, that's why He "calls those things which be not as though they were." Rom 4:17 This is the basis of the gospel -- the Lord has declared everyone righteous. This righteousness is imputed unto us by Jesus' works at the cross; however it is still not actual. To bring this declaration in actuality rest on His 2nd work called sanctification.


2nd Work of Sanctification and Faith

The second work is where faith is defined. Paul defines as such "So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word(rhema, utterance) of God." Rom 10:17

At the time of the first Pentecost, Israel was at Sinai where the Lord descended, uttering His law by making His voice heard to all the people. The people were afraid "And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die." Ex 20:19

Yes hearing the Lord does "burn" the "flesh" by bringing our carnal nature to death. Cooking the leavened loaves is part of the process for the bread to become an acceptible sacrifice.

And so sanctification isn't possible without hearing the voice of the Lord for yourself, for only through hearing the fiery law that's when faith comes. Through His gracious discipline He also teaches us obedience. Actually obedience and hearing is the same Hebrew word shema. That's when it gets written on our heart tablets. Then that law becomes part of our nature and the works of it becomes natural.

That's how the imputed righteousness from the first work of Christ becomes reality in our heart through His second work of sanctification. Both works are done through the grace of Christ, but faith comes only from hearing.