HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield, Dina, Nelson
1323 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,189
Posts195,525
Members1,323
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
Rick H 16
kland 15
Daryl 4
March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Member Spotlight
Kevin H
Kevin H
New York
Posts: 625
Joined: November 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
3 registered members (Karen Y, 2 invisible), 2,795 guests, and 4 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 6 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Re: The Counterfeit Kingdom [Re: dedication] #171549
01/28/15 04:11 PM
01/28/15 04:11 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,416
Midland
Originally Posted By: dedication

Of course Houteff denies it is in Jerusalem -- and tries to think of some other place -- like Mt. Sinai,-- where that might be.
Suppose it was. Then wouldn't it mean that we are not to go up to Old Jerusalem because the beast is there?

Re: The Counterfeit Kingdom [Re: dedication] #171566
01/29/15 05:36 AM
01/29/15 05:36 AM
dedication  Offline OP
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,411
Canada
Indeed, it would mean we are not to look to Old Jerusalem -- or go there thinking we'll find the true kingdom there.

I just found it interesting that Houteff -- (the one who tried to make going to old Jerusalem the "crowning hope" for God's people)-- basically agreed with me concerning the "glorious mountain" in Daniel 11:45 on quite a number of points, but then turned around and said, that "glorious mountain" couldn't be Jerusalem, it may be Mt. Sinai.

However -- it is most likely Jerusalem.


The Vatican has it's eyes on old Jerusalem (not on Mt. Sinai)


The Vatican's goal over the past years is to see old Jerusalem an international city.

The Vatican already has a significant presence in Jerusalem. Under Israeli law, Rome has legal jurisdiction over, and free access to, its holy sites, including both its institutions and assets in Jerusalem.

Re: The Counterfeit Kingdom [Re: dedication] #171568
01/29/15 06:56 AM
01/29/15 06:56 AM
dedication  Offline OP
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,411
Canada
Let’s review a few points concerning the counterfeit kingdom --

Isaiah 14:13,14 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

His aim is to be enthroned on the mount of assembly, in the sides of the North. And since he was cast out of heaven, we are told he furthers his plans on this earth.

“Satan arranges his plans in such a way as to intercept the worship due to God, and to transfer to himself the adoration due to God alone”. (STJune 13,1895)

The Bible speaks of the Sides of the North as being a holy realm, Mount Zion.

Psalms 48:2 “Beautiful in elevation, The joy of the whole earth, Is Mount Zion on the sides of the north, The city of the great King.”

We read in Patriarchs and Prophets p. 539 that the children of Israel would sing these words from the Psalms as they approached Jerusalem to partake in the annual festivals.

Jerusalem was God’s chosen city to which not only the children of Israel came to worship, but to which the nations were to come to seek God. To this city and its surrounding areas came the Messiah, Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world.

Had the Jewish nation accepted Christ as their Messiah, their city would have been a light to the whole world.
Because they rejected the Prince of Life, their city would not – could not be the light to world, it was desolate.

“Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. Matt.23:38.

And that desolation remains until the consummation when the earth is made new.
Daniel 9:27 "for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

But we read that in the last days attempts will be made to bring in this “temporal kingdom” to old Jerusalem.

The king of the North will plant his tabernacles on the glorious mountain between the seas. *Daniel 11:45)

And many people will tell us that we need to go to Jerusalem, thinking this is the solution to earth’s problems and a return to God.
Isaiah 2:3 And many people shall go and say, “Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
2:5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD. “

2:6 Therefore thou hast forsaken thy people the house of Jacob, because they be replenished from the east, and [are] soothsayers like the Philistines, and they please themselves in the children of strangers.


Notice, this scripture does not say that people will actually walk in the law of the Lord, but that "many people shall go and say" let’s go, and by us going, the world’s war problems will be solved, let’s go...

But their words are met with rebuke from the Lord! The Lord says they are "pleasers of themselves."


And what do we see in the world today?

Most of Protestantism is teaching a temporal kingdom in Jerusalem.


We see the Vatican making negotiations to control all the so called "holy" areas in the city and surrounding territories.

on Dec. 30, 1993 "The Fundamental Agreement Between the Holy See and the State of Israel,” Shimon Peres had promised the pope control over holy sites.

Several agreement along that line have been made.

Lately in the news (Sept. 4, 2014) Shimon Peres is at the Vatican. Peres’s aim is world peace, especially in for the Middle East. And in his opinion, Pope Francis, a man he calls “Holy Father,” is the one to make it happen.
He was suggesting “ an organization of United Religions, a United Nations of religions” with the Pope as the leader of United Religions.

The Vatican has always wanted Jerusalem to be an international city, under the control of the Papacy, where all nations -- Jews, Muslims, Christians, etc come to seek God.

Re: The Counterfeit Kingdom [Re: dedication] #171591
01/30/15 05:06 AM
01/30/15 05:06 AM
G
Godsloveandlaw  Offline
SDA
Supporting Member 2015
Active Member 2015

Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 500
Coachella Valley, Cailf.
I won't even waste my time with so much error here. why should I ? You'd not acknowledge it even if shown your false ideas.

Re: The Counterfeit Kingdom [Re: dedication] #173447
05/19/15 07:39 AM
05/19/15 07:39 AM
dedication  Offline OP
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,411
Canada
Isaiah 14:13,14 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

The Bible speaks of the Sides of the North as being a holy realm, Mount Zion.

Psalms 48:2 “Beautiful in elevation, The joy of the whole earth, Is Mount Zion on the sides of the north, The city of the great King.”

We read in Patriarchs and Prophets p. 539 that the children of Israel would sing these words from the Psalms as they approached Jerusalem to partake in the annual festivals.

Daniel
11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.


Satan desires for himself the worship that belongs to God alone. The last conflict is about worship. Satan works through his two earthly representatives -- the papacy, and the false prophet, and uses scripture to establish the counterfeit religious kingdom. And to attach a sense of "holiness" the attempt will be made to establish this counterfeit kingdom with a base in the "Holy Land" -- Palestine.

Originally Posted By: dedication
Originally Posted By: Dedication
- The same will be in the end --
A counterfeit king, a counterfeit kingdom, and to make it seem like the real thing, it will be in what the Bible describes as the "sides of the north" "between the seas on the glorious mountain". (The right place, at the WRONG TIME)

Daniel 11 is an historical account of literal kings and places. Persian kings, Alexander the Great, the Seleucid and Ptolemy kings, the Romans, the Papacy and all their wars etc.
Thus it only makes sense that the last verses are also literal wars. The king of the North is the Papal confederacy.


What is interesting is that Houteff himself sees Daniel 11:45 "between the seas and the glorious mountain" over in the Middle East.

Originally Posted By: Houteff Tract 12
"And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him." Dan. 11:45.

It is self-evident that planting "the tabernacles of his palace" cannot mean planting his capitol. The tabernacles, therefore, may denote a branch of his palace. And his choosing to plant them "in the glorious holy mountain," indicates that the place is intended to attach to his tabernacles the holiness of the Christian's God. Investing the tabernacles of his palace with such sanctity, can mean that it is to house the headquarters of the soon-coming ecclesiastical world-government, which we have already considered....
It now being apparent that "the tabernacles of his palace" are supposed to represent holiness, and that the woman riding the beast (Rev. 17:3), settles the world's social, economic, political, and religious problems, the truth is clear that the present Christian governments are to be reorganized, and ruled by an ecclesiastical head (Tract 12)


Of course Houteff denies it is in Jerusalem -- and tries to think of some other place -- like Mt. Sinai,-- where that might be.

And that is the problem -

For -- "the glorious mountain" is the same as the
"glorious land" mentioned in an early verse in the same chapter where it is dealing with the Roman armies entering Jerusalem back in 63 BC.

11:16 .. and he shall stand in the glorious land, which by his hand shall be consumed.

Houteff himself, recognizes this verse talks about pagan Rome conquering Palestine and Jerusalem. He wrote:
"Egypt and Palestine then passed from the hands of the king of the south (Ptolemy) into the hands of the king of the north (Rome): "In the year 63 B.C. the Roman general Pompey... marched against Jerusalem. Tract 12 page 65 (eclipses his)



And yes, the world will be ---reorganized and ruled by an ecclesiastical head...his choosing to plant his tabernacles "in the glorious holy mountain," indicates that the place is intended to attach to his tabernacles the holiness of the people of God.

And that ecclesiastical head is the papacy.

Originally Posted By: EGW
As we approach the last crisis....The world is filled with storm and war and variance. Yet under one head--the papal power--the people will unite to oppose God in the person of His witnesses. This union is cemented by the great apostate.--7T 182 (1902).



The Roman Church is far-reaching in her plans and modes of operation. She is employing every device to extend her influence and increase her power in preparation for a fierce and determined conflict to regain control of the world, to re-establish persecution, and to undo all that Protestantism has done...
Marvelous in her shrewdness and cunning is the Roman Church. She can read what is to be. She bides her time,... Those who reject the light of truth will yet seek the aid of this self-styled infallible power to exalt an institution that originated with her. ...
the Protestant world will learn what the purposes of Rome really are, only when it is too late to escape the snare. She is silently growing into power. Her doctrines are exerting their influence in legislative halls, in the churches, and in the hearts of men....
We shall soon see and shall feel what the purpose of the Roman element is. Great Controversy chapter 35






Re: The Counterfeit Kingdom [Re: dedication] #173464
05/19/15 05:00 PM
05/19/15 05:00 PM
G
Godsloveandlaw  Offline
SDA
Supporting Member 2015
Active Member 2015

Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 500
Coachella Valley, Cailf.
Here we see again Dedications attempt to deny God's word. A while back we addressed an important element that she conveniently overlooks, here's what was said -- (below was written in the thread "Thy Kingdom Come" 12/17/14)

Ded--Yes, we do need to balance the statements --
And which way do the balances tip?

The balance of EGW writings do NOT support this kingdom in Palestine theory.


Notice clearly AGAIN, Dedication continues to use EGW's writings as the trump card if you will, meaning that when she says "balance" she means using EGW over Scripture. Scripture has about 10 to 1 reference FOR the pre-mil kingdom.

Inspired Quote--"That which God purposed to do for the world through Israel, the chosen nation, He will finally accomplish through His church on earth today. He has “let out His vineyard unto other husbandmen,” even to His covenant-keeping people, who faithfully “render Him the fruits in their seasons.”

Never has the Lord been without true representatives on this earth who have made His interests their own. These witnesses for God are numbered among the spiritual Israel, and to them will be fulfilled all the covenant promises made by Jehovah to His ancient people."


Ded- You are taking a vague quote here and their and trying to make it fit your kingdom theory;

Now if that don't take the cake!! Let us look at those last words and see if you see vagueness there(?)

.. to them will be fulfilled all the covenant promises made by Jehovah to His ancient people."

You see people this is what Satan does with his people who know not that they are representing him by falsifying God's INSPIRED words and promises!

Now, concerning the rest of her post, remember as shown there are basically six main covenant promises made to old Israel, as follows- They are the following:

Abrahamic Covenant
Mosaic Covenant
Sabbatic Covenant
Palestinian or Land Covenant
Davidic Covenant
New Covenant

I've underlined the two covenants that concern our study--God pre-millennial kingdom. Please go to new thread (Isaiah 11 -strong evidence of His kingdom) and look at one of the most powerful and clear Scriptures that convincingly shows He will indeed set His upcoming kingdom up in Israel. This report is know as rock solid, if one truly wishes to see what it plainly says.




Last edited by Godsloveandlaw; 05/19/15 05:02 PM.
Re: The Counterfeit Kingdom [Re: dedication] #173470
05/20/15 03:01 AM
05/20/15 03:01 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2018

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Blessings dedication,

The thought you presented about the counterfeit being a mirror was very insightful. I had never made that connection myself.

As far as I can tell, the only issue I have is Islam being the king of the south. Could you expound on that a little more as I have never made that connection either.

Re: The Counterfeit Kingdom [Re: dedication] #173471
05/20/15 03:06 AM
05/20/15 03:06 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2018

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: dedication

This subject is much bigger than the SRod.

However it is their zeal in breaking down Adventist resistance to the idea of a righteous sounding kingdom in present day Jerusalem, that is serious.
The men and women who founded this church moved clear away from the, even then, popular teachings of an earthly temporal kingdom. Are we now to move back into this popular teaching just because it has been slightly modified?

To cast doubts and confusion on our doctrines is now the master plan of the deceiver, and he is using many groups, (I'm not speaking specifically of SR)
If Satan can get us all confused and doubting our beliefs he knows we will follow his powerful deceptions in the future.

The sealing work is a SETTLING INTO TRUTH so we will not be moved.

"Just as soon as the people of God are sealed in their foreheads--it is not any seal or mark that can be seen, but a settling into the truth, both intellectually and spiritually, so they cannot be moved--just as soon as God's people are sealed and prepared for the shaking, it will come. 1MR 249

So the deceiver is now working with great skill to effectively cast doubt and confusion on all our doctrines so there is no settling into truth or sealing and so when the shaking comes we will believe our senses instead of holding fast truth.

If we've been filled with doubts on these matters, we will be sifted out of the truth and into the deceptive kingdom.



Excellent post dedication.

Questions and doubt are not the same as facts and truth. We know, and I really do mean we know that we have the truth and where this truth comes from. It comes straight from God.

When you think of how few adventists refused to let go of the Bible after 1844, only God could have brought this truth to where it is today.

Re: The Counterfeit Kingdom [Re: dedication] #173473
05/20/15 05:26 AM
05/20/15 05:26 AM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Good observation, Alchemy!


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: The Counterfeit Kingdom [Re: dedication] #173474
05/20/15 05:36 AM
05/20/15 05:36 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2018

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: dedication
Indeed, it would mean we are not to look to Old Jerusalem -- or go there thinking we'll find the true kingdom there.

I just found it interesting that Houteff -- (the one who tried to make going to old Jerusalem the "crowning hope" for God's people)-- basically agreed with me concerning the "glorious mountain" in Daniel 11:45 on quite a number of points, but then turned around and said, that "glorious mountain" couldn't be Jerusalem, it may be Mt. Sinai.

However -- it is most likely Jerusalem.


The Vatican has it's eyes on old Jerusalem (not on Mt. Sinai)


The Vatican's goal over the past years is to see old Jerusalem an international city.

The Vatican already has a significant presence in Jerusalem. Under Israeli law, Rome has legal jurisdiction over, and free access to, its holy sites, including both its institutions and assets in Jerusalem.







I personally believe Galatians 4:21-31 settles this issue once and for all. We are to look for the New Jerusalem! Looking toward Old Jerusalem is bondage.

Page 6 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 03/27/24 09:35 AM
Are the words in the Bible "imperfect"?
by Kevin H. 03/24/24 09:02 PM
The Story of David and Goliath
by ProdigalOne. 03/23/24 08:06 PM
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 03/22/24 10:17 AM
Carbon Dioxide What's so Bad about It?
by kland. 03/21/24 12:34 PM
The Value of Bible Types
by TruthinTypes. 03/17/24 06:22 PM
Orion Which Every One on the Globe Can See
by Rick H. 03/16/24 06:26 PM
'Prophet' Summons UFOs
by ProdigalOne. 03/16/24 02:19 AM
Will You Take The Wuhan Virus Vaccine?
by dedication. 03/11/24 06:31 PM
Get That Razor Wire Up!
by kland. 03/05/24 12:49 PM
Messages for This Time
by ProdigalOne. 03/04/24 05:54 AM
The Lake of Fire is Hell
by Rick H. 03/02/24 05:01 PM
Adventist Agriculture
by kland. 02/29/24 12:33 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
The Wound Is Healed! The Mark Is Forming!
by Rick H. 03/27/24 10:36 PM
Are we seeing a outpouring of the Holy Spirit?
by Rick H. 03/24/24 06:50 PM
Time Is Short!
by Rick H. 03/24/24 06:45 PM
Climate Change and the Sunday Law
by Rick H. 03/24/24 06:42 PM
WHAT IS THE VERY END-TIME PROPHECY?
by Rick H. 03/23/24 06:03 PM
Digital Identity Control
by Rick H. 03/23/24 02:08 PM
A.I. - The New God?
by Rick H. 03/23/24 01:59 PM
Christian Nationalism/Sunday/C
limate Change

by ProdigalOne. 03/16/24 08:38 PM
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by Rick H. 03/16/24 06:30 PM
Is There A Connection Between WO & LGBTQ?
by Kevin H. 03/12/24 09:20 PM
A Second American Civil War?
by Daryl. 03/04/24 06:14 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1