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Re: What does it mean to "fear"? [Re: dedication] #171772
02/12/15 04:55 AM
02/12/15 04:55 AM
APL  Offline
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But Dedication - we have people right here on this forum telling us that sin does not cause destruction. God causes the destruction in the end. We have had forum moderators tell us we do need to be afraid of God and we need to preach it more!


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: What does it mean to "fear"? [Re: dedication] #171786
02/12/15 05:24 PM
02/12/15 05:24 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dedication
The right kind of fear chases away all other fears.

We don't use the word "fear" anymore (in every day language) the way it is used in the KJV.

Re: What does it mean to "fear"? [Re: dedication] #171801
02/13/15 07:00 AM
02/13/15 07:00 AM
dedication  Offline OP
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Sin has caused destruction, sickness, death, war, violence, abuse, brokenness, and a multitude of evils to numerous to mention -- the whole earth is groaning under the weight of sin and its results.

God offers deliverance, cleansing, life, and blessings more abundant than we can imagine. Not only in the eternal life to come but also a peace and happiness in this life that can carry us through trials that are inevitable in this world filled with sin.

Now God could simply allow the world to destroy itself. In fact it probably would have done so long ago if God had not held back the winds of strife.

But there are issues greater than just letting sin run it's course (which to a large extent sin is allowed to do) and that is SALVATION.
Not only does sin reveal its evil destructive nature,
but God also reveals His power of salvation and deliverance.

People will know that it was their choice that kept them from salvation. They will know that Christ did everything possible to save them but they rejected him, and yes, they will be filled with remorse and terror.


What happens at the second coming?

Yes, there will be terror, fright,
as well as exceeding great joy.

The coming will be an event that shakes everything --
It seems that the coming will have a dramatic gravitational effect on our planet as we are told all nature goes haywire; when it's supposed to be night, the sun shines? Streams run uphill, mountains sink, etc. Does this mean the rotation of the earth is even changed?

The fire and glory as He draws near will be terrible. Even the saved experience some fear.

Originally Posted By: EGW
" Before him every face turns pale, and upon those whom God has rejected, falls the blackness of despair. The righteous cry with trembling, "Who shall be able to stand?" The song of the angels ceases, and there is a period of awful silence. Then the voice of Jesus is heard, saying, "My grace is sufficient for you." The faces of the righteous are lighted up, and joy fills every heart. And the angels strike a note higher, and sing again, as they draw still nearer to the earth. {4SP 459.1}

The King of kings descends upon the cloud, wrapped in flaming fire. The earth trembles before him, the heavens are rolled together as a scroll, and every mountain and every island is moved out of its place. Says the psalmist: "Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence; a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him. He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people. Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice. And the heavens
shall declare his righteousness; for God is judge himself." [Psalm 50:3-6.] {4SP 459.2}

"And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every freeman, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; for the great day of his wrath is come, and who shall be able to stand?" [Revelation 6:15-17.] {4SP 460.1}

The derisive jests have ceased. .. The wicked pray to be covered by the rocks of the mountains, rather than meet the face of Him whom they have despised and rejected. {4SP 460.2}

That voice which penetrates the ear of the dead,
they know. How often have its plaintive, tender tones called them to repentance. How often has it been heard in the touching entreaties of a friend, a brother, a Redeemer. To the rejecters of his grace, no other could be so full of condemnation, so burdened with denunciation, as that voice which has so long pleaded, "Turn ye, turn ye; for why will ye die?" Oh that it were to them the voice of a stranger! Says Jesus, "I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded. But ye have set at naught all my counsel, and would none of my reproof." ..

In the lives of all who reject truth, there are moments when conscience awakens, when memory presents the torturing recollection of a life of hypocrisy, and the soul is harassed with vain regrets. But what are these compared with the remorse of that day when "fear cometh as desolation," when "destruction cometh as a whirlwind!" [Proverbs 1:27.] Those who would have destroyed Christ and his faithful people, now witness the glory which rests upon them. In the midst of their terror they hear the voices of the saints in joyful strains exclaiming, "Lo, this is our God, we have waited for him, and he will save us." [Isaiah 25:9.]

Amid the reeling of the earth, the flashing of lightning, and the roaring of thunder, the voice of the Son of God calls forth the sleeping saints...All blemishes and deformities are left in the grave. The redeemed bear the image of their Lord. Oh, wonderful redemption! long talked of, long hoped for, contemplated with eager anticipation, but never fully understood. {4SP 463.2}

The living righteous are changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. At the voice of God they were glorified; now they are made immortal, and with the risen saints are caught up to meet their Lord in the air....

"And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. And it shall come
to pass in that day that a great tumult from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbor, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbor." [Zechariah 14:12, 13.] In the mad strife of their own fierce passions, and by the awful outpouring of God's unmingled wrath, fall the wicked inhabitants of the earth,--priests, rulers, and people, rich and poor, high and low. "And the slain of the Lord shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried." [Jeremiah 25:33.] {4SP 473.2}

At the coming of Christ the wicked are blotted from the face of the whole earth,--consumed with the spirit of his mouth, and destroyed by the brightness of his glory. Christ takes his people to the city of God, and the earth is emptied of its inhabitants.






Re: What does it mean to "fear"? [Re: dedication] #171802
02/13/15 07:33 AM
02/13/15 07:33 AM
dedication  Offline OP
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We shouldn't be afraid of God -- we should be running to Him for He is the source of life, goodness, peace, love, joy.


John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

1 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is very patient with us, not wanting that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

God doesn't want anyone to be lost -- patiently He is calling, pleading, -- for all to come and find life in Him.
He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked.

Sin only offers death.

By His grace we can stand in the awesome glory and brightness of his holiness. He invites us to come and be clothed in His garments of righteousness that will enable us to stand.


But yes, someday He will erase all traces of sin. The wicked will not be able to stand for sin cannot stand in God's presence.

But remember He is the One Who has made a way of escape, He has provided a place of refuge, He has called us to forsake the ways of death and come to the source of life, and we have the promise:

3 Peter 3:13
"we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwells righteousness."

Then there will be no more death, sickness, crying, pain, violence, abuse, or any evil.

Re: What does it mean to "fear"? [Re: dedication] #171803
02/13/15 10:41 AM
02/13/15 10:41 AM
G
Godsloveandlaw  Offline
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Ded-We shouldn't be afraid of God -- we should be running to Him for He is the source of life, goodness, peace, love, joy.

Yes, this is true. However let us not fall asleep--

"False prophets..complain that the peace of the people is unnecessarily disturbed by reproofs and warnings of God's messengers (Testimonies,vol. 4,p.185)


"Those who are occupying the position of watchmen to warn the people of danger, have given up their watch, and recline at ease. They are unfaithful sentinels. They have remained inactive and indolent while ,their wily foe has entered the fort, and works successfully by their side.. They apprehend no special danger. They see no cause for alarm." (PH 011-1)

"..the solemn message to the Laodiceans .. is not a smooth message."
(3 Testimonies, p.257)

"It is not silver-tongued orators that are needed to give the message. The truth in all its pointed severity must be spoken." (5 Testimonies, p.187)

"The Lord..gives His chosen messengers a holy boldness, that those who hear may fear and be brought to repentance.(CC, p.203)



Re: What does it mean to "fear"? [Re: dedication] #171806
02/13/15 05:38 PM
02/13/15 05:38 PM
APL  Offline
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A physician lays out what a disease course will take. The bad if it is not remedied, and the good if it is healed. Do we need to be afraid of a real physician? No. We have no need to be afraid of God - ever. We need to see sin for what it is and what it will do to us so we will come to the Heavenly Physician.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: What does it mean to "fear"? [Re: dedication] #171807
02/13/15 05:51 PM
02/13/15 05:51 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dedication
Now God could simply allow the world to destroy itself. In fact it probably would have done so long ago if God had not held back the winds of strife.

Except for the fact nature is not self-acting. It can do nothing of itself. Jesus cannot simply let go and let nature wreak havoc. It doesn't work that way. Nature is not self-acting. Jesus must work for it to be destructive.

Quote:
Nature is not self-acting; it is the servant of its Creator. God does not annul His laws nor work contrary to them; but He is continually using them as His instruments. Nature testifies of an intelligence, a presence, an active agency, that works in, and through, and above its laws. There is in nature the continual working of the Father and the Son. Said Christ, “My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.” {BLJ 241.3}

God has finished His creative work, but His energy is still exerted in upholding the objects of His creation. It is not because the mechanism that has once been set in motion continues its work by its own inherent energy that the pulse beats and breath follows breath; but every breath, every pulsation of the heart, is an evidence of the all-pervading care of Him in whom we live and have our being. {BLJ 241.4}

It is not because of inherent power that year by year the earth produces its bounties and continues its motion around the sun. The hand of God guides the planets, and keeps them in position in their orderly march through the heavens. It is through His power that vegetation flourishes, that the leaves appear and the flowers bloom. His word controls the elements, and by Him the valleys are made fruitful. He covers the heavens with clouds, and prepares rain for the earth; He “maketh grass to grow upon the mountains.” “He giveth snow like wool: he scattereth the hoarfrost like ashes.” “When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures.” {BLJ 241.5}

The depths of the earth are the Lord's arsenal, whence were drawn weapons to be employed in the destruction of the old world. Waters gushing from the earth united with the waters from heaven to accomplish the work of desolation. Since the Flood, fire as well as water has been God's agent to destroy very wicked cities. These judgments are sent that those who lightly regard God's law and trample upon His authority may be led to tremble before His power and to confess His just sovereignty. As men have beheld burning mountains pouring forth fire and flames and torrents of melted ore, drying up rivers, overwhelming populous cities, and everywhere spreading ruin and desolation, the stoutest heart has been filled with terror and infidels and blasphemers have been constrained to acknowledge the infinite power of God. {PP 109.1}

Re: What does it mean to "fear"? [Re: dedication] #171808
02/13/15 05:54 PM
02/13/15 05:54 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dedication
y His grace we can stand in the awesome glory and brightness of his holiness. He invites us to come and be clothed in His garments of righteousness that will enable us to stand. But yes, someday He will erase all traces of sin. The wicked will not be able to stand for sin cannot stand in God's presence.

Sinful flesh cannot abide the unveiled presence of God. Not even Jesus, while here in sinful flesh, could have survived the unveiled presence of God. His flesh would have melted.

Re: What does it mean to "fear"? [Re: dedication] #171813
02/13/15 07:54 PM
02/13/15 07:54 PM
APL  Offline
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Originally Posted By: MM
Except for the fact nature is not self-acting. It can do nothing of itself. Jesus cannot simply let go and let nature wreak havoc. It doesn't work that way. Nature is not self-acting. Jesus must work for it to be destructive.

Originally Posted By: EGW
Nature is not self-acting; it is the servant of its Creator.
Is God the creator of thorns and thistles? Is God the creator of misery and blood shed? Of pain and suffering? These are work of an antagonistic power. Sin has marred God's perfect work. Satan is the AUTHOR of sin. He is the author of evil, the creator of it, and nature reveals the knowledge of evil.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: What does it mean to "fear"? [Re: dedication] #171817
02/14/15 03:33 AM
02/14/15 03:33 AM
dedication  Offline OP
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True -- nature is not self acting -- it has no mind of it's own.
Nature is governed by laws which God put in place.
But what happens when God's laws are ignored, or tampered with?
What happens when the laws of nature are transgressed?
What happens when any of God's laws are ignored or transgressed?

The same sort of thing happens, as when a person disregards the laws of running a car -- (wrong fuel, no oil, running on flat tires) the car isn't self acting, but when the laws of it's needs are transgressed it soon stops running.

This whole drama with sin is concerning God's law!
And God's laws of nature and morality are not arbitrary laws, but the very principles which ensure wellbeing and a world of harmony and peace.

Sin is the transgression of God's law.
What results when God's laws are transgressed?
What happens when fallen angels and fallen men tamper with God's laws of nature?

This world is a graphic example of what happens when God's laws are transgressed!

When God's laws are transgressed trouble, pain, destruction and all manner of terrible things result.
Sin has been allowed for 6000 years to show what sin does, and hopefully people will come to their senses and realize that God's laws are absolutely perfect and good and are the only way for happiness and all things that are good to exist.

Not because God is a dictator -- but because the very ways of those laws is good, right and the ways of happiness and harmony.




No, it's not God that transgressed His law.
An enemy has done this.


God is not the author of the trouble in this world-- or the author of nature gone haywire.
The trouble is the result of men and fallen angels mutilating God's laws and reaping the results.
These results of disregarding and transgressing God's law, are witnessed not only in the moral degeneration in people, but also in the physical degeneration of nature.


This is reaching great heights in our time.
The whole earth (yes nature) will show what transgressing God's laws does to it's ability to be a place where life can exist.

For example-- Greedy men tampering with the God's law which He placed within plants.
Geneses 1:12 "herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed is in itself"

Greedy men remove from food plants the "seed after his kind" so people can no longer harvest seeds from their produce but must buy seed from the mega companies!
This is dangerous tampering and disregard for God's law -- it's placing the production of seeds to grow food into the hands of a few men, and all it takes is for their seeds to be contaminated with altered (no seed) plants and there will be a huge shortage of food in this world -- the resulting famine won't be God's doing, it will be the result of transgressing God's law and the greed of a few in rendering food plants incapable of reproducing that will bring terrible famine.

Mankind are destroying the earth with their disregard for God's laws of nature -- as well as destroying themselves with that same disregard for God's moral laws.





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