This afternoon we shall study Zechariah 8. The first thing we need to know in the study of this chapter is whether its promises are made to the people of Zechariah's time or to the people of our time. To find this out, it is necessary for us to read a few scattered verses. We shall begin with--

Zech. 8:7, 8 -- "Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Behold, I will save My people from the east country, and from the west country; and I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be My people, and I will be their God, in Truth and in righteousness."

In these verses we see that God is promising to save His people not from the land of ancient Babylon, where Zechariah then was, but from the east and from the west, and to bring them to Jerusalem. They are to be His people, not by virtue of their ancestry, or by some other, but in Truth and righteousness.

Now, since the promise in these verses did not meet its fulfillment in Zechariah's day, nor at any time thereafter, it stands to reason that it must meet its fulfillment sometime in the future. Let us read--

Zech. 8:13 -- "And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing: fear not, but let your hands be strong."

Besides promising to save His people from the east and from the west, the Lord promises to save also the house of Judah and the house of Israel, both of the scattered ancient kingdoms. You are well acquainted with the fact that the ten-tribe kingdom constituted the house of Israel.

And since these two kingdoms have never yet been united and brought back to Jerusalem, there is but one logical conclusion to be reached: The promises of this chapter are to be fulfilled in the time of the "gathering of the people" from the four corners of the earth. In view of this great and grand work the Lord expects our hands to be "strong." Next we shall read--

Zech. 8:20-22 -- "Thus saith the Lord of hosts; It shall yet come to pass, that there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities: and the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the Lord, and to seek the Lord of hosts: I will go also. Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the Lord."

Since we know that no nation aside from the Jewish nation in Zechariah's day went to seek the Lord and to pray before Him in Jerusalem, there is no alternative but again to admit that the promises of Zechariah 8 belong to the people in the time of the final harvests, in the gathering time.

Having completed our analysis of the time this chapter meets its fulfillment, we can, I am sure, now study the prophecy itself with much greater interest than we could have otherwise. Let us begin with --

Zech. 8:1-3 -- "Again the word of the Lord of hosts came to me, saying, Thus saith the Lord of hosts; I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury. Thus saith the Lord; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the Lord of hosts the holy mountain."

Yes, wonderful things are spoken of Zion and Jerusalem. At one time the Lord forsook the city and scattered the people. But at the time these scriptures are being revealed, He is to return, to gather His elect, and to bring them to Zion and Jerusalem. When this great work shall have been accomplished Jerusalem will then be called "a city of Truth,...the holy mountain" -- a people well versed in God's whole Truth and without a sinner in their midst.

This great wonder evidently takes place during the Judgment of the Living, the righteous are taken there while the wicked are being bound in bundles as it were for to be destroyed. And while the Lord dwells in Zion, His Truth shall then emanate from Zion and Jerusalem.

Then it is that "many people and strong nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the Lord." Now is our greatest chance to work and pray "Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven."

Zech. 8:4, 5 -- "Thus saith the Lord of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age. And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof."

Jerusalem shall be a city of joy, too. There shall be no fear or accident; even the children shall safely play in the streets. There shall be no "long faces," and no worried looks. So shall it be for both young and old.

Zech. 8:6 -- "Thus saith the Lord of hosts; If it be marvelous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in these days, should it also be marvelous in Mine eyes? saith the Lord of hosts."

Just because the fulfillment of this prophecy might seem too marvelous and impossible, must it necessarily seem impossible to the Lord, also? -- Indeed not.

Zech. 8:7, 8 -- "Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Behold, I will save My people from the east country, and from the west country; and I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be My people, and I will be their God, in Truth and in righteousness."

Zechariah predicts the gathering of the saints out of all nations into God's purified and Truth-filled church, the Kingdom, just as the parable of the harvest teaches, only the wheat is to be put into the barn, church. There is to be no mixed company of saints and sinners in the "holy mountain of the Lord."

Zech. 8:9 -- "Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Let your hands be strong, ye that hear in these days these words by the mouth of the prophets, which were in the day that the foundation of the house of the Lord of hosts was laid, that the temple might be built."

God here counsels us to let our hands be strong, and stable.We, too, should hear the words of the prophets and though we be not building the temple which they were building, yet that is the only way that our work can prosper. We cannot afford to close our ears to what the prophets say, or to sit down in an unconcerned attitude.

Zech. 8:10-12 -- "For before these days there was no hire for man, nor any hire for beast; neither was there any peace to him that went out or came in because of the affliction: for I set all men every one against his neighbour.

But now I will not be unto the residue of this people as in the former days, saith the Lord of hosts. For the seed shall be prosperous; the vine shall give her fruit, and the ground shall give her increase, and the heavens shall give their dew; and I will cause the remnant of this people to possess all these things."

How thankful and glad we ought to be that the days of our affliction are almost at the end, that now if we hear His prophets, and brace ourselves for the work, the Lord assures us of peace and prosperity. This may soon be ours if we but steadfastly cling to the Truth, and thus to the Lord. (Timely Greetings, vol. 1, no.16, p.22-26)

No -- forget about a peaceful, prosperous kingdom over in Palestine prior to Christ's coming.

2 Thess. 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.


Part of the last great deception will be this idea of a righteous earthly kingdom over there in Palestine --

As the prophet Isaiah warned:






Basic English grammar confirms that VERSES 3-5 are all in the "WE/US" voice showing it is the people speaking.

In verse 6 we hear how God responds -- why does God forsake these people, when it SOUNDS like they are doing something good?



It is not a prophecy of what shall be, but of what "many people" will do, and say.

This prophecy, of what the people would say, is exactly fulfilled before our eyes. It is the very language of "many people" in these days; which shows that we are "in the last days." The prophecy of a "temporal kingdom," of a spiritual, peaceful and universal reign of the church on earth, previous to the personal appearing of Christ in the clouds of heaven, exactly agrees with the popular ideas of prophecy at this time.

Let us now inquire, Did the many people speak the truth? or, did they prophesy out of their own hearts?

I think the latter. And to this state of an exalted church, and to what they would say about peace and security, we can compare to Paul who clearly refers in 1Thess.v,3. "When they shall say peace and safety; [the very thing that Isaiah and Micah tells us the "many people" will "say" in the "last days;] then sudden destruction cometh upon them, and they shall not escape."

An awful warning this, to those who are saying nations are going to beat their swords into plow-shares, and their spears into pruning hooks, and not lift up sword against each other any more, but all are to sit under their own vine - having none to molest them or make them afraid.

So how are we to understand Zechariah eight?

1. These promises were primarily meant for the returned captives from Babylon who were then rebuilding Jerusalem and the areas around the city..
God was promising them wonderful things -- telling them that His favor had returned to their city.

2. The goal was for the returned Israelites to grow mightily in spiritual prosperity and to prepare the world for Christ's first coming -- His first coming indeed was to Bethlehem and Jerusalem and the area over there in Palestine.

3. The promises of their city being a light to the world and growing in spiritual prosperity were CONDITIONAL ON OBEDIENCE.
(A condition that they failed, thus the literal fulfilment of the prophecy did not happen -- but God's purposes will be fulfilled in another way)

4. They are being fulfilled TODAY (not in literal Jerusalem) but by the church proclaiming the gospel to the world and urging people to prepare for Christ's second coming.

Ded-No -- forget about a peaceful, prosperous kingdom over in Palestine prior to Christ's coming.

Let us see whether we should believe un-inspired words or the soon to happen GREAT LIVING WORD--

"But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. Therefore, say to the house of Israel: This is what the Lord GOD says: It is not for your sake that I will act, house of Israel, but for My holy name, which you profaned among the nations where you went.

And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.

And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.(Ezekiel 36:21-35)

These things have NEVER happened since they were predicted by Ezekiel. Will God not do what He said He will do?

Those who say "Oh no, stay away from this idea that God will restore His people back to the Holy Land" will get what they believe- no entrance to His beginning phase of the kingdom, oh what a disaster to come upon them!

True.

False.
Sorry, dedication, but this is faulty exegesis based on a KJV mis-translation of the original text. The Hebrew does not support a "Therefore" inserted into verse 6. A far more accurate reading is found in the NRS, LB, or NIV. As those translations point out, God forsakes the people because they have taken on the ways of the idol worshipers, not because they are doing something good.

This reading fails on two points:
1. The original text does not have, or support, "therefore." Check an inter-linear. Nor does it have a Strongs number.
2. "Therefore" indicates "because of what I just said, or was just stated" and "because" indicates "for the following reason." Since the before and after ideas do not match, one of the words is incorrect.

Conclusion: "Therefore" should not be in the text. The thought break should more accurately be placed between verse 4 and 5.

Therefore, your dissertation which follows is based on a flawed understanding of Scripture.

So JAK, I guess, since you are not an SDA, you have probably accepted the popular concept (which seems to be the prevailing interpretation in the Christian world) that there will be a temporal kingdom in Palestine.

However --
What the people say in Isaiah 2:2-5 still does not meet with the approval of God. Verse 5 clearly tells us God "forsakes, cast off or away, rejects, abandons, quits, cast down, lets fall", these people.

And true -- their worship is "idol" worship but remember people have idols that aren't necessarily images, idols is anything that is more important in our lives than our relationship with God.

Setting up some kind of kingdom in Palestine and going there isn't going change that.

The overwhelming acceptance of such a kingdom theory in our time, simply shows we are IN THE LAST DAYS. -- It is a physical counterfeit of the true. True worship, worships God in spirit and in truth, and it's not based on any geographic location. (See John 4:20-24)

Ezekiel 36 is one of my favorite chapters as it describes the NEW BIRTH experience.

It is NOW that God will sprinkle clean water upon us, and make us clean from all our filthiness, and from all our idols, He will cleanse us. A new heart also will He give us, and a new spirit will He put within us: and He will take away the stony heart out of our flesh, and He will give us an heart of flesh -- if we just come to Him with genuine faith and surrender.


The NEW BIRTH experience changes our citizenship from this world to being citizens of God's New Jerusalem.

And Jesus will gather his people from all nations(all who through the power of the Holy Spirit, experienced the new birth) at the second coming, and they will inherit the earth after the 1000 years, when the earth that was left desolate will blossom in beauty.
(See John 3, Matt. 24:31, John 14:1-3, Rev. 21-22)

Rev. 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.


“Lord lift me up, and I shall stand
By faith on heaven’s tableland
A higher plane than I have found
Lord plant my feet on higher ground.



I want to live above the world,
though satan’s darts at me are hurled,
For faith has caught the joyful sound
The song of saints on higher ground.

My home's in heaven, this world is not my home,
My crowning hope is to meet Jesus in the air at the second coming and live with Him --first in heaven for 1000 years, then upon the earth made new for eternity.

You know absolutely nothing about what I am, yet read into my profile your own interpretation.
Now you build a theory about my beliefs based on the (unconfirmed) supposition above. Do you also do your theology in the same manner?

???
Seriously, what translation are you using? Verse 5 does not contain even ONE of the words in your quote.

So what I'm seeing is a "theology" system based on misreading Scripture, making suppositions, then building theories on the suppositions based on misread Scripture....
As far as I am concerned you have seriously jeopardized any credibility you may have had.

And not a word about the previous post regarding faulty exegesis based on the faulty KJV...

I'd say I'm shocked, but I'm not, for it is just because of this kind of pathetic "explanations" that I list my denominational leanings as I do.

No, I don't know your official standing with the church, I can only go by what you have shared, which suggests you are not a Seventh-day Adventist, but still chose to fellowship with them.
If I am wrong please correct me.
You didn't correct me, only said you had "leanings" -- does that mean the statement was correct?


When I say you have probably accepted the popular concept, instead of correcting that, you simply answer with ad hominine remarks, so is the statement correct?

I would have been far happier if you would have simply explained your belief on the matter,
then at least we could communicate.





However --
What the people say in Isaiah 2:2-5 still does not meet with the approval of God. Verse 5 (actually verse 6) does clearly tell us God "forsakes, cast off or away, rejects, abandons, quits, cast down, lets fall", these people.

I was using the concordance looking up the first words in Isaiah 2:6

Yes, it is verse 6, not verse 5, that was a typo.


"natash" #05203 which means "forsakes, cast off or away, rejects, abandons, quits, cast down, lets fall",

the second word

"'am" means people


The one word, therefore, does not change the reality that God is not happy with them in verse 6, which follows what the people say in those verses of Isaiah 2:3-6

The people say "let us go....."

and God responds in a negative manner, and yes, it's because they think going to Jerusalem will solve their problems, but they still have their idols, pride and desire for material wealth.

In the last days, going to Jerusalem is not the answer to the sin problem.




I don't see a thought break between verse 4 and 5,
Verse 5 simple restates the people saying "let us" agreeing with verse 3 thus making verses 3-5 the complete sayings of the people.

2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD....
2:5 let us walk in the light of the LORD.

Ded- So JAK, I guess, since you are not an SDA, you have probably accepted the popular concept (which seems to be the prevailing interpretation in the Christian world) that there will be a temporal kingdom in Palestine.

Notice time and again Dedication fails a most basic test as she attempts to prove God's word wrong.( See her failed ideas under "fear of God"-- thread--"The Whole Law and the Sabbath)

The LIVING WORD SAYS --

"But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. Therefore, say to the house of Israel: This is what the Lord GOD says: It is not for your sake that I will act, house of Israel, but for My holy name, which you profaned among the nations where you went.

And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.

And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.(Ezekiel 36:21-35)

Sure, it is a "favorite" of hers, but she cannot prove it wrong. Yes, she can use her private interpretations again, but we truth seekers, can see this smoke screeen.

It is fulfilled in the New Covenant -- the New Testament.

Not now to literal Israel of the flesh in a literal geographic area who were to prepare the world for the first coming of Christ, but to the spiritual Israel of Christ, throughout the world, to sound the message of His second coming!

The whole law and the Sabbath.

This is a vital part of the message we are to share with the world. Jesus says "If you LOVE Me, keep My Commandments", He doesn't say "if it benefits you, keep my commandments".

If you think proclaiming the whole law and the Sabbath is a "failed idea" then I feel very sorry for you.


Will we honor our Lord and Savior by keeping His Sabbath Holy, even when all physical benefits are removed from us?

Do we have enough faith, and trust in HIM and His promises that we will stand true to Him even if the whole world mocks and persecutes us? Even when people we trusted turn away and pronounce God's curses upon us because we aren't following their substitute Sabbath.

Maybe you think that's a "failed idea" because you think you will be safe in Palestine somewhere --

However, I would urge you to reconsider that position.
There is NO safety in Palestine. In fact that's the worst place you could go in the last days.

There is only hope and safety in Christ.

He is coming soon -- not to Palestine, but in the clouds of glory. And all who love Him and gained the victory through His cleansing blood, and reflect His righteous love in their characters will rise to meet Him in the clouds and live with Him forever.

Both of you are making the assumption that all SDAs do not accept a temporal kingdom in Palestine. That connection is not true as brought to view many times on this forum. For instance, consider one a couple of posts below yours.

BOTH of us??? What do you mean BOTH of us?
I have made NO statement PRO or CON regarding a "temporal kingdom in Palestine." NOTHING at all. EVER.

******Staff Edit******

JAK, didn't you make the assumption, that I should have assumed you were an Adventist and thus should not have wondered if you believed a very standard teaching of the evangelicals.

Prior to you posting on this thread, I was responding to a poster who says he is an Adventist (though he's SRod) who is trying to persuade us that a kingdom in Palestine is the "crowning hope" for Adventists. (At least for the few that survive)

I wasn't trying to be rude in my reply to you.
I honestly thought you were not a member of the church -- due to your profile comment,-- and thus the possibility seemed high that you may be leaning toward an interpretation that is very prevalent in the evangelical world.

And Kland --
No, I don't assume that all Adventists reject the temporal kingdom theory. Every wind of doctrine blows in the church these days. Every prophetic interpretation seems to be promoted by someone, somewhere. Besides even in EGW's days there were people pushing the temporal kingdom idea.

That's why she wrote:
" Then I was pointed to some who are in the great error of believing that it is their duty to go to Old Jerusalem, and think they have a work to do there before the Lord comes. EW 75

Looking into the situation then prevalent - there were people thinking they needed to go to Jerusalem and prepare a nucleus to welcome Christ when he comes to His 'capital city'....

But she said it was a "great error".

Your right, I did make an assumption.
I assumed posters on this board would be competent Bible scholars...
One should never assume.

As posted earlier on previous page:
With or without the word "therefore"
what the people say in Isaiah 2:2-5 still does not meet with the approval of God. Verse 6 still clearly tells us God "forsakes, cast off or away, rejects, abandons, quits, cast down, lets fall", these people.

I was using the concordance looking up the first two words in Isaiah 2:6

Yes, it is verse 6, not verse 5, that was a typo-- (and don't assume typo's never happen)

The first word in verse six is

"natash" #05203 which means "forsakes, cast off or away, rejects, abandons, quits, cast down, lets fall",

the second word

"'am" means people


The one word in the KJV, "therefore", does not change the reality that God is not happy with the people in verse 6, which follows what the people say in the verses just previous in Isaiah 2:3-6

The people say "let us go....."

and God responds in a negative manner, and yes, it's because the people think going to Jerusalem will solve their problems, but they still have their idols, pride and desire for material wealth.

In the last days, going to Jerusalem is not the answer to the sin problem.




I do NOT see a thought break between verse 4 and 5,
Verse 5 simple restates the people saying "let us" agreeing with verse 3 thus making verses 3-5 the complete sayings of the people.

2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD....
2:5 let us walk in the light of the LORD.
2:6 [God has] has abandoned the people, the house of Jacob,
Because they are filled with influences from the east,
And they are soothsayers like the Philistines,
And they strike bargains with the children of foreigners

Ded- No, I don't assume that all Adventists reject the temporal kingdom theory. Every wind of doctrine blows in the church these days. Every prophetic interpretation seems to be promoted by someone, somewhere. Besides even in EGW's days there were people pushing the temporal kingdom idea.That's why she wrote:

" Then I was pointed to some who are in the great error of believing that it is their duty to go to Old Jerusalem, and think they have a work to do there before the Lord comes. EW 75

First, Dedication continues to put EGW's words before what the Bible clearly says. Second, based on the first reason, she disregards the very EGW words she proclaims to believe--

The truths most plainly revealed in the Bible have been involved in doubt and darkness by learned men, who, with a pretense of great wisdom, teach that the Scriptures have a mystical, a secret, spiritual meaning not apparent in the language employed. These men are false teachers. It was to such a class that Jesus declared: “Ye know not the Scriptures, neither the power of God.” Mark 12:24.

The language of the Bible should be explained according to its obvious meaning, unless a symbol or figure is employed. Christ has given the promise: “If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine.” John 7:17.

If men would but take the Bible as it reads, if there were no false teachers to mislead and confuse their minds, a work would be accomplished that would make angels glad and that would bring into the fold of Christ thousands upon thousands who are now wandering in error.


So to understand Scripture we must make EGW words FIT THE BIBLE not the other way around. Dedication time and again goes backwards to fit her private interpretations.

We have already showed many many Scriptures pointing to what the Bible describes as a "pre-millennial" kingdom to begin in the promised land. The reason is as follows--

"Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.

And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.

Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it. (Ezekiel 36:22-36)

What? I --THE--LORD-- HAVE--SPOKEN--IT--AND--I--WILL-- DO--IT

Just to clarify something here:



Yes, the Bible is first --
HOWEVER --
Notice, the blatant contradictions in GLL's reasoning which is clearly shown by his remarks from the study of Zech. 4. He does NOT put scripture first.
Compare his statements above with his study on Zechariah 4 below:



According to GLL, Houteff is the 1939 prophet.
Thus GLL's basic premise is ONLY HOUTEFF's interpretation are valid -- all others, according to GLL (even EGW's interpretations) must be placed in subjection to Houteff's interpretations.

That means -- when we deal with GLL, it's NOT Bible first, any meaning derived from Bible study that clearly shows Houteff's interpretations are wrong, he will discard as "Private interpretation".

He says EGW is one of the two pipes who ALONE can interpret scripture --
Yet, even though I've quoted several passages where she tells us how to interpret these OT prophecies --
he does not regard them as having any value.

If you read her writings in context, EGW does NOT agree with Houteff in prophetic interpretations.

SRod will use her writings to give authenticity to their beliefs, but they use HER WORDS, NOT HER MESSAGE.



Indeed -- scripture must come first.
But what method of interpretation are we following?

Principles of interpretation OT prophecies are:

1. All the prophetic books in the Old Testament (with the exception of the prophecies of Daniel which were sealed for the end time) were written first of all for the literal people living at the time the prophecies were given. These prophecies concerned their future, their relationship with the Lord, the warnings of destruction coming upon them due to their sins, the promises of blessings to them if they lived in covenant relationship with God, and the promises of the coming Messiah to their nation.

2. Also -- these O.T prophetic books were written--

a. For an example to us, for what was promised (and warned against) to literal Israel has further relevance for us.

b. The OT will often combine prophecies of the first and second and even third coming of Christ

c. The OT prophecies often jump from a local application, and telescope to a much larger application in the last days.

d. It’s not until we come to the NT that a clearer distinction is made between the application to local Israel at that time, the first coming and what could have been, and the meaning and fulfilment of these prophecies to God’s people after the cross.

3. SYMBOLISM

We need more consistency in applying the symbols.
Prophecies concerning “Jerusalem” and “Israel”, the people of ancient times were to realize they applied as literally concerning their city and their nation ,

But the OT prophecies pertaining to our time usually no longer refer to that earthly city nor do they specifically refer to the literal descendants of Jacob.
Rather, these terms belong to God’s people (His church) no matter what race or location.

SRod is NOT consistent in this--

In the prophecies promising blessings and greatness on or in Jerusalem, they insist on a “literal reading” of the literal ancient city.


BUT they readily apply "Jerusalem" and "Israel" to God’s church all over the world in other passages (usually the ones that speak of curses upon Israel and Jerusalem)

In those passages they treat the words "Jerusalem" and "Israel" as symbolic of the church, not literal, even though the prophecies concerning curses or coming destruction on Jerusalem are just as literal sounding of the ancient city as the prophecies promising blessings.

As is typical, I have found NO evidence that this is anywhere near a "very standard teaching" of anybody. It does appear, though, to be a fringe doctrine, shared by a cross-section of belief systems, some Christian, but more common to Jews.

So here is the challenge: Since you claim that it is a "very standard teaching of the evangelicals," please provide credible sources that support this claim.

You added words to my comment.
Where did I say a "restored kingdom"?

You're side-stepping the issue.
Man-up.

Or, in this case, Lady-up.

The popular view of evangelical Christians is that some kind of righteous temporal kingdom will be established in Palestine.
Not all evangelicals believe the same -- there are theological wars in their realms as well.

But one general line is the most influential theological thought system shaping Christian concepts of the end times, especially in America -- and especially of the lay members.
And it is also the most common, I find, that Adventists who leave the Adventist view, embrace.

Even though there is a wide range in the details of this belief, there is a convergence on the location (Palestine) as the "headquarters" and general agreement that this temporal kingdom takes place while probation for the nations is still open.

General to the belief is that Christ will institute the Davidic kingdom on earth, there is success in Christianizing society to a large extend, and a golden age is achieved on earth prior to the judgment of all men and the fiery cleansing of the earth that is depicted in Rev 20.

It comes, with variations, under various titles:

Dispensationalism, Scofieldism, Darbyism,
PREMILLENNIALISM

Evangelical premillennialists generally believe the "Davidic kingdom" is established by Christ when He returns to earth and inaugurates the millennium reign which lasts for the one thousand years.


The premillennialists pretribulation dispensational group which have been made popular by the "Left Behind" films and books, think they will be raptured to heaven and thus escape the time of trouble which will fall upon all the "left behind" people. Seven years later they return to earth with Christ, and establish the Davidic kingdom where Christ reigns, and they reign with Him, over the nations for 1000 years.


Adventist doctrine, on the other hand, believes Christ returns before the millennium, but not to establish an earthly kingdom at that time. Only the righteous are alive and in heaven with Christ during the millennium. After the millennium and after the final judgment when the earth is made new
the unending earthly kingdom is established -- the capital is not old Jerusalem (which will be gone) but the New Jerusalem come down from heaven.

Cite your sources...

Although you made an attempt to "explain" the concept you have failed to demonstrate or support that it is either "the popular view" or a "standard teaching."

Sources -- my sources are from all over the place.
Are you that unfamiliar with the popular evangelical teachings being preached on Christian radio stations, presented in Christian films, and books?


You can do your own research -- just look up the words I gave you and you will find PLENTY OF SOURCES.

Do you know who John N. Darby, Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye, Cyrus Scofield are?

Have you heard of Dispensationalism, Pretribulation, the Davidic Kingdom, Premillienalism?

Have you heard about the "Left Behind" Series (books and films)?


It's hard to find a book in a non-SDA Christian bookstore on Biblical Prophecy these days that isn't highly influenced by this theory.

Just recently bought a book on the "Four Blood Moons" by John Hagee, as I was curious to see what they had to say about that. This book has sold millions of copies! -- But I was disappointed as the book was full of dispensationalist endtime thinking.

(Of course the Catholic church vetoes the concept of a rapture and a future 1000 kingdom on earth, as it sees the millennium as the whole Christian era since Pentecost, and itself as representative of God on earth -- but they too are looking for a final fulfilment mainly of their primacy over all the earth)

"Starting in the 1970s, dispensationalists broke into the popular culture with runaway best-sellers. Since the mid-1990s, tens of millions of people who have never seen a prophetic chart or listened to a sermon on the second coming have read one or more novels in the Left Behind series, which has become the most effective disseminator of dispensationalist ideas ever.

You can try a book like:
"The last Days Handbook, by Robert Lightner

Here is the description of the whole chapter in Isaiah 2.
There is more in the chapter that shows the big picture.

Isaiah 2:1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

As we noted, this is concerning Judah and Jerusalem (in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah vs. 1:1)

2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days,
Shown several times now -- the "last days" of Judah and Jerusalem's time of probation -- is -- the last days of the 490 years.

The last days of Judah and Jerusalem occurred during Christ's life, death and resurrection.

“The time is fulfilled, the kingdom of God is at hand,” had been the message of Jesus,(Matt. 4:17) John the Baptist (Matt. 3:2) and Jesus disciples (Matt. 10:7).

"And the “kingdom of God” which they had declared to be at hand, was established by the death of Christ." GC 346

the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it

“Christ's work was largely confined to Judea. But though his personal ministry did not extend to other lands, people from all nations listened to his teaching, and carried the message to all parts of the world. Many heard of Jesus by hearing of the wonderful miracles that he performed. And the knowledge of his suffering and death, which were to be witnessed by the large number in attendance at the Passover, would be spread from Jerusalem to all parts of the world. (RH Oct. 26,1897)

God's plan for Israel --
They were to be the light of the world.
And in many ways they were --
Christ, the Son of God, came to them establishing the kingdom of grace, and from Jerusalem that glorious message went out to the world.
But Jerusalem itself was left desolate because they rejected the kingdom of grace.

But now to the "last days" of our history.

Jerusalem itself was left desolate because they rejected the kingdom of grace, wanting only a kingdom of honor over nations.

In the "last days" of our history, things haven't changed, people still want a temporal kingdom rather than the kingdom of grace.



Isaiah 2:2- "And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths; for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the Lord."



Who is it that shall say these things?—

"Many nations [Isa. "Many people"]

So who is saying these things exactly?
Is it God, or is it "many nations" and "many people"?

In the last days then many people shall say that "the law shall go forth of Zion and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem."
In the last days its many people that will count on God rebuking many; and people will turn their spears (and other weapons) into pruning-hooks." In the last days many people shall say that "nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."

In the last days many people shall say, "they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig-tree; and none shall make them afraid." And, too, they will say that "the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it." All these things many people will say in the last days. (As we see in a similar passage in Micah)

Apparently, these prophets are predicting the counterfeit establishment of Christianity over the nations with headquarters in Jerusalem.

God's purposes will be counterfeited.
How do we come to such a conclusion?
Well, yes, read the CONTEXT!

First, these scripture do not say that people will actually walk in the law of the Lord, but that "many people shall go and say" that certain things shall take place. They will say it is what God said.

They establish "Christianity" over the mountains and hills -- that is taking control over governments and religion.
It is the political/religious counterfeit mountain in the name of the Lord.

That this national Christianity will be only a sham, an outward thing, and not the real kingdom of grace established by Christ, is indicated by the next four verses, which say:-

"Forsaken people the house of Jacob, because they be replenished from the east, and are soothsayers like the Philistines, and they please themselves in the children of strangers. Their land also is full of silver and gold, neither is there any end of their treasures; their land is also full of horses, neither is there any end of their chariots; their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made; and the mean man boweth down, and the great man humbleth himself; therefore forgive them not." Isaiah 2:6-9


This verse follows directly after all the things the people were saying about Jerusalem.

God is not in the Palestinian kingdom, even though it will look like a "return to God" movement.

These verses show that while the people profess that they know God, in works they deny him. They will be worshiping something of their own creation. They'll be involved in eastern myths (spiritual formation??) They will depend on ruling powers instead of depending upon the Lord.

In a counterfeit establishment of worship -- the standard of what true Christianity is, is lowered, until it comes down to where the mass of the people are, and then they "worship" thinking they are "saving the world" by flowing into this established Christianity that has set itself above all "mountains" and "hills".

And what will be the final result?

The prophet Isaiah continues:
"Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty. The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day. For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low." "And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he arised to shake terribly the earth. In the day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats; to go into the clefs of the ragged rocks, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake the terrible the earth." Isa. 2:10-12, 19-21.


This corresponds to
The second coming --
Rev. 6:14-16 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:


In that day of the Lord the earth shall be melted (2 Peter 3:10, 11; Isa. 24:19, 20), and sinners shall be destroyed out of it; "nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwells righteousness." 2 Peter 2:13.

And when the earth is cleansed, then will be fulfilled the word of the Lord which is written: "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord; for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them" (Jer. 31:34); for "all thy children shall be taught of the Lord; and great shall be the peace of thy children." Isa. 54:13.

And not to forget why there even is a Jerusalem today. Why are people "up in arms" over anything against Israel, etc., etc.

I would say the majority of Christians believe in a temporal kingdom located in literal Jerusalem. Listen to the news. Listen to the churches. Listen to common conversation. It's everywhere.

Well now, THAT'S the truth!

Your insults bother me not the least.


That is just the problem. I DIDN'T "find PLENTY OF SOURCES" to support this claim.
You make the claim, you post the support. Don't expect me to do your work for you.

Yes, it is the truth --
This is NOT some remote "doctrinal study" hidden in some university, you will find this teaching everywhere.



It wasn't an insult, it was a question asked in pure amazement




It is a popular teaching in the Protestant Christian world--
If you are not interested enough to find things on your own, no use bothering you with it.


I gave you enough leads if you are interested -- you are on your own if you wish to delve into this.
If not - that's fine, too. Though I have a very hard time believing you are unaware of the prominent prophetic interpretation that has swept through the evangelical churches.





Very true. It's affecting not only people's religious ideas, but the political realms as well.

For example:

Taken from:
The "End Times"
A Study on Eschatology and Millennialism
A Report of the
Commission on Theology and Church Relations of
The Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod
September 1989
Current Millennial Views
__________


What that study says just verifies what has been very apparent for many years.

The question isn't --
"do a lot of religious people believe there will be an earthly utopic, pre-close of probation, righteous temporal kingdom with headquarters in Palistine? The answer is yes -- there are a lot of religious people who believe that.

The question is --
Is this the correct interpretation for the endtimes, or will it lead people straight into the powers of deception seeking our destruction?

Yet again we stand in disappointment at Dedication's side tracking craftiness. Notice she side tracks the main issue of what God's word says. Instead she focuses on "me" and "Houteff". Not one word explaining why God's word should not be believed..

let us repeat-- and we will show God's direct word concerning this return of the Israel homeland to His people in the LAST days.

"Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.

And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.

Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it. (Ezekiel 36:22-36)

I --THE--LORD-- HAVE--SPOKEN--IT--AND--I--WILL-- DO--IT


"Finite beings, with their narrow, short-sighted views, feel themselves competent to criticize the Scriptures, saying: 'This passage is needful, and that passage is not needful, and is not inspired>' (Testimonies, vol. 5, p.709)

Who side tracked the conversation?
You started with Zechariah 8
I showed several passages by EGW as to how she interpreted that passage.
You were upset that I should quote EGW
(she obviously interprets these passages differently then Houteff)
You switched to Ezekiel 36

My issue is INTERPRETATION --
Whose interpretation are we to follow?

The reason I mentioned Houteff, is because Houteff's interpretation of these passages is very different from EGW.
Also no matter what I write concerning Biblical passages, if it doesn't agree with Houteff, you will simply write it off as "private interpretation" "twisting" "craftiness" and several other attacks aimed at my character.

Thus I asked whose interpretation are we to follow?
But there was no response to that question.

I see no sense in continuing this discussion without settling that issue.

This is NOT side tracking.
The interpretation you are following is very similar to the dispensationalist premillennialist interpretation which is the prevailing interpretation in Protestant America -- differing mainly on the dispensationalist temporal kingdom that supposedly lasts throughout the 1000 years, while the SRod temporal kingdom is supposedly established before the 1000 years, but both use the "literalist" manner of interpreting these passages. (with variations -- but still centered on old Jerusalem)

The message a person understands when reading these passages rests on interpretation.

You say these passages were not conditional and were not meant to be fulfilled to Israel after their return from exile. That they were not meant to be fulfilled in the 490 years when the Israelites were to prepare the world for the first coming of Christ. And thus he believe they must be fulfilled to the letter in the "last days".


I believe they were conditional and were meant to be fulfilled to the returned exiles, as they prepared the world for the first coming of Christ, and I posted a post outlining this.
Due to Israel's failure on their part, God could only partially fulfil the promises to them. Yet, God's purposes will be fulfilled, but not now in the "literal" geographical, political manner, but a fulfilment of God's purposes through his church that will transpire in the last days.

Their fulfilment by the "church" is not geographical or political, but is the kingdom of grace to be preached to the world in preparation for Christ's second coming when all the saved go to His Father's house in heaven, and the glorious kingdom is that of the new earth after the 1000 years.

This also agrees with the way EGW interprets these passages.
Which you were upset about when I posted her method of interpreting these passages.


But let's look again as to how she interprets them.


Clearly EGW places Zechariah 7-8 as a message to the returned exiles from Babylon.

As we read on in the same chapter, EGW shows how they failed, and ended up, instead of receiving the Messiah and becoming the light to the whole world, they rejected Christ, and their land was left desolate.

She writes:
" That which God purposed to do for the world through Israel, the chosen nation, He will finally accomplish through His church on earth today." p. 713

But she isn't talking about a geographical kingdom here, she is talking about the "light to the whole world".
The church TODAY is the light to the world.

She tells us
For 1260 years (the dark ages) the church of God was in captivity to Babylon

And how does EGW interpret Ezekiel 36.
Again we find no mention of geographical, political kingdom in Palestine in the last days.

She again interprets it as finding fulfilment in the Christian experience as citizens of Christ's kingdom of grace.



Obviously EGW places these verses in the spiritual regeneration of God's people, not to a returned Israel to Palestine.

These are the "purposes of the God" -- the restoration of human hearts being prepared to live forever in God's ETERNAL (not temporal) kingdom.
The land to be inherited by those who receive the new heart and cleansing will be the earth made new --



Indeed we can rest assured that God has spoken it and He will preform it.

Not the geographical, political temporal thing, that was conditional to Israel --
BUT creating in His people a new heart and mind, cleansing them and ultimately giving them an ETERNAL home in the earth made new, where He will dwell with us forever.

So following the inspired lead as to how to interpret this passage --

"Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
Ezekiel is talking to his people -- the Israelites. Ezekiel lived during the time when Judea was being destroyed by Babylon, it's citizens either killed or taken captive.

One thing we must always keep in mind is that the FIRST COMING of Christ -- the Savior -- was to be to the Israelite nation.
This promise was to be fulfilled, even though at the time it looked like it couldn't be fulfilled because Israel was scattered among the nations.

The promise is that Israel would again be established, and that the Messiah -- our Savior -- would come to them.
This was the hope of the ages, the point upon which salvation rested. Christ's coming to purchase the redemption price and offer cleansing to all.

The key issue is SALVATION (not a temporal kingdom) though had Israel accepted Christ they would have reaped rich temporal blessings and a far greater "gathering" than what took place.

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


This is what Christ came to this earth to do.
This is SALVATION through Christ.
It was first offered to the Jewish nation at the end of the 490 years, and would have elevated them to being the city on a hill shining the light of salvation to the world.

But God's purposes weren't dependant upon them -- His purposes will be fulfilled in and by God's church -- the light of salvation will shine throughout the world.

Had Israel, returning from exile back then, to their desolated land, followed God, these promises would have been literally fulfilled, (they were partially fulfilled, as far as God could fulfil them to a half-hearted people) But God's purposes will be fulfilled in the end -- in a much bigger way.

And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.

And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.

Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it. (Ezekiel 36:22-36)

The nature of the true Israel must also be borne in mind.
"Therefore as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the children of God, and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ. Romans 8:14-17. "And if ye be Christ's then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Gal.3: 29.

With this explanation, let's reread the texts. God promises to take His people from among the heathen, and bring them into their own land. The land which belongs to the people of God is not part of "this present evil world," from which they are delivered by the death of Christ (Gal.1:4), and Christ plainly says, "my kingdom is not of this world". (John 18:36) So we look for the country to which Abraham looked, "that is, an heavenly." Heb. 11: 14-16.

In gathering His people from among the heathen, to bring them into their own land, God sprinkles clean water, even the pure water of life, upon His people, to cleanse them from all their iniquities. "The blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses, us from all sin" (1 John 1:7), and the Spirit and the water and the blood agree in one. 1 John 5:8. The clean water with which God sprinkles His people as He gathers them is the blood of Christ.

This cleansing is a thorough one, and since the filthiness which we have contracted among the heathen permeates us completely our cleansing involves an entirely new creation. God has to give us a new heart, for out of the heart are the issues of life. "If any man be in Christ there is a new creation." He promises to put His Spirit in us, so that we shall walk in His statutes, and keep His commandments; for the law is spiritual. Then, says God, "ye shall be My people, and I will be your God."
Compare this with the promise of the new covenant (Jer.31: 33, 34 and Hebrews ),

The heathen will see the fulfilment of God's promise to Abraham and his Seed, (if ye be Christ's then are ye Abraham's seed) for they will all come up and surround the Holy City, the New Jerusalem, after it comes down from God out of heaven. Rev. 20: 7-9. The people of God, redeemed from all their enemies, even from the last and greatest enemy, death, will go forth from the New Jerusalem over the renewed earth, and build cities and inhabit them, and plant vineyards and eat the fruit of them. Isa.65: 17-23.
It is true that before they go forth the wicked will be destroyed in the fire that renews the earth; but the heathen will nevertheless know that the Lord builds the waste and desolate and ruined cities, for they will see the proof of it in the New Jerusalem, which will stand upon the site of the old city, only greatly enlarged.

Now comes the most comforting assurance that our unworthiness has nothing to do with the case. It is not for our sakes, but for His own sake, that the Lord forgives our sins. "I even I am He that blotteth out thy transgressions for Mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins." Isa. 53: 25.
(and no this is not private interpretation, this is what Adventist pioneers taught)


I --THE--LORD-- HAVE--SPOKEN--IT--AND--I--WILL-- DO--IT

SOP states clearly--

"Some have thought it an evidence of intellectual keenness and superiority to perplex minds in regard to what is truth. They resort to subtlety of argument, to playing upon words; they take unjust advantage in asking questions. When their questions have been fairly answered, they will turn the subject [and] bring up another point to avoid acknowledging the truth. We should beware of indulging the spirit which controlled the Jews." (Testimonies to Ministers, p.108-109)

Go ahead Dedication, continue to believe that God will not continue with His promise to return the Holy land to His people (The Israel of Today).And just maybe you can convince many here and elsewhere that God is done with His promises for the land of Israel, but at what cost? I dare say--your own soul.. In very short time, in fact maybe months we'll see what happens-- see our latest post--

World War III is at the Door

When God gives His people the "Holy Land" it will indeed be HOLY, made new with all traces of sin gone forever, after the 1000 years, not before.

It is at that time, just before the earth is made new
the "great war" of Gog and Magog takes place (The fulfilment of Ez. 38)

Rev. 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.
20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

In what way are you not doing this yourself in promoting Old Jerusalem?