I think it's quite possible that what Ellen White saw in 1903 about NYC may happen this fall, possibly sooner. What's especially interesting about the quote is that Ellen White is giving us a clear signal for the Loud Cry - when the Lord arises to shake terribly the earth and the buildings in NYC fall - when that happens, whether tomorrow or this fall or a few years from now, the Loud Cry will be given.  What do you all think? Isn't she saying that?

If we didn't know better this quote could also be taken to mean the NYC itself is Babylon. I don't think Ellen White is saying that but it appears that there is more of a connection between NYC and Babylon than most of us think. I'll give some linkages, hopefully tomorrow or the next day.

Babylon is NOT New York City--

"The existing confusion of conflicting creeds and sects is fitly represented by the term “Babylon,” which prophecy applies to the world-loving churches of the last days. {CTr 70}

" Concerning Babylon, the symbol of the apostate church, He says to His ministers of judgment, "Her sins have reached unto heaven, COL 179

"Thousands upon thousands will listen who have never heard words like these. In amazement they hear the testimony that Babylon is the [Christian] church, fallen because of her errors and sins, because of her rejection of the truth sent to her from heaven.--The Great Controversy, pp. 606, 607. (1888) {Ev 43.4}

"The churches, represented by Babylon, are represented as having fallen from their spiritual state to become a persecuting power against those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. To John this persecuting power is represented as having horns like a lamb, but as speaking like a dragon.--Testimonies to Ministers, p. 117. (1896)

"We are not to seek any strange, new message. We are not to think that the chosen ones of God who are trying to walk in the light, compose Babylon. The fallen denominational churches are Babylon. Babylon has been fostering poisonous doctrines, the wine of error. This wine of error is made up of false doctrines Review and Herald, Sept. 12, 1893.

Babylon in Revelation 18 is described as the source of the world's commerce and therefore of its wealth. Babylon is said to be so important financially to the global economy that when it falls all the businessmen of the world mourn over it because their chances of financial gain appear to go up in smoke along with it.

Babylon also has the ability to influence rules of trade so that no-one can buy or sell without her permission. This power is attached directly to the image of the beast but in order for the image to do this it seems to me as though the image would need the authority of Babylon because Babylon drives the global economic engine. NYC at this point in time is the most influential global financial hub.

Of course NYC is not the only global influence. The WTO (World Trade Organization) sets the rules for international trade. It's headquartered in Switzerland. The World Bank and IMF are headquartered in Washington DC. But, the UN is headquartered in NYC which gives NYC special status as a global political and financial force.

NYC is also the most influential city in the world promoting gay rights. Adventists are asleep at the wheel on this issue in our unwillingness to take a stand on the issue before the Supreme Court next month. But according to prophecy, the beast that ascends from the abyss slays the Two Witnesses of God in the streets of the city called Sodom.
Ellen White confirms that there is more to the mark of the beast than just the day of worship. Until recently I've wondered what else that mark entails. Well, I think it's right in front of our faces now - those opposing homosexuality will face extreme persecution over this issue. If the prophecy is true, their testimony is to be slain in the streets of Sodom and Egypt.

I'll try to find that quote I referred to above. If anyone has it handy please feel free to share it.

It took me a while but thank the Lord I did eventually find the quote:

Two attention-grabbing things jump out of this quote: 1) That we don't know everything there is to know about the mark of the beast. I've suggested above that Babylon is guilty as Sodom and therefore this figures into the mark. 2) I can't say that categorically because of the other fascinating comment - that we won't know the full extent of what that mark involves until the "unrolling of the scroll."

What scroll is she talking about? The one that Daniel was told to seal and that is in the hand of the Father in Rev. 5, still sealed. It is unrolled when the Lamb takes it and brakes its seven seals one at a time - in the near future friends. I really believe that time is soon and because it's eminent I'm going to venture to make an educated guess based on the description of Babylon as the hold of every unclean spirit and cage of every vile bird that spiritualism and moral depravity are, in addition to Sunday worship, linked to the mark of the beast.

By the way, I agree that apostate Christianity is Babylon. I'm saying that NYC appears to be an important player prophetically in lending it's influence to Babylon.

I think she is speaking exactly against what you are suggesting. New York is not of any special thing. But it IS part of the earth. When Babylon falls, structures on the earth fall. But she specifically says, "But I have no light in particular in regard to what is coming on New York,". Building there, as elsewhere thought to be resistant to all kinds of things, will fall. But she links that to Babylon falling. It will be too late to use that as any kind of warning. It's over with. Now if you think the end of the world happens this fall, that's one opinion. But to say the buildings specifically in New York will fall this fall as an indication of something else, no. Not according to what she said.

She's saying do not be amazed at all the so call strong structures of man. For they are nothing compared to God's touch and all will fall at the last days. Nothing about New York.

You could interpret the quote that way. That's not unreasonable. I came across one or two other quotes recently though that are consistent with the idea that many cities will be depopulated before probation closes. If it was all "over" when this occurs why would she put it as though the Loud Cry is given after it happens? Also, she is consistent in warning us to leave the cities before probation closes because trouble will come on them before that time.

I've re-posted the quote again below for easy reference.

Babylon IS fallen.
Rev. 18:1-3 doesn't say Babylon will fall. It says she is fallen and God's people are urgently called to come out.

Babylon is fallen.
This is a spiritual and moral fall.
This fall is not the same as her destruction.
The destruction is linked with "her plagues" for "with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down".

The "Loud Cry" to come out of fallen Babylon must take place before the destruction of Babylon.

The call is to come out of spiritual and morally fallen Babylon so as not to partake of her plagues and destruction.


New York is only one major city in the nation depicted as the "beast with horns like a lamb" that will erect an "image of the beast' and enforce the "mark of the beast". When the plagues and destruction come they will come all over.

There are similar quotes for other cities --


EGW's oft repeated urgent message was to reach the cities with the gospel before it was too late.

She also gives a clear picture of the progression of Babylon's fall which leads to destruction.



Now we don't know all the details how this will come about. I think that is what EGW meant by writing we don't know everything about it -- we won't know until the scroll of earth's history unfolds.
There will be a certain amount of chaos, disasters and trouble, coupled with "signs and wonders" that will be used to get the people to accept a "church/state" arrangement.
Satan works by causing frightful happenings and then offering his solution, by which he seeks to deceive the world.

But the destruction of Babylon comes after.

I guess I should have qualified my statement. Probation doesn't close at a specific instance for everyone. What I was meaning to say, is that those who are waiting and watching for buildings to collapse, it will be too late for them, their probation would have already closed. Those who have the knowledge of leaving the cities, but don't, would have sealed their own doom.

Ah. I guess I didn't get what you meant. How I read it is, when the terrible scenes take place, then will be fulfilled the words of Revelation 18:1-3. Meaning, those events fulfill it, and not a sequence implied. Could that not be how to interpret that?

That's a reasonable interpretation. Ellen White is generally precise in her wording. If she meant it that way I think she would have said "then will have been fulfilled" instead of "then will be fulfilled". I can give you an example in her writings of where that distinction in tenses makes all the difference but not tonight.

But let's say she might have meant it as you say. What does the Bible say about the shaking? Does it happen before or after the close of probation? It might be good to do a study on that, especially on the text she quotes and see where that fits in. But I should add that I think you're right that for many of us, probation will be closed when the next shaking happens in the large cities.

Mark- What does the Bible say about the shaking? Does it happen before or after the close of probation? It might be good to do a study on that..

Agreed brother Mark. This is indeed a wonderful and worthy topic which we would do well to study and learn upon.

The Spirit of Prophecy gives much light on this subject--

"I asked the meaning of the shaking I had seen, and was shown that it would be caused by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the True Witness to the Laodiceans. This will have its effect upon the heart of the receiver, and will lead him to exalt the standard and pour forth the straight truth. Some will not bear this straight testimony. They will rise up against it, and this is what will cause a shaking among God's people.

"I saw that the testimony of the True Witness has not been half heeded. The solemn testimony upon which the destiny of the church hangs has been lightly esteemed, if not entirely disregarded. "--Early Writings, p. 270.

"The message to the church of the Laodiceans is a startling denunciation, and is applicable to the people of God at the present time....The people of God are represented in the message to the Laodiceans as in a position of carnal security. They are at ease, believing themselves to be in an exalted condition of spiritual attainments....

"What greater deception can come upon human minds than a confidence that they are right when they are all wrong! The message of the True Witness finds the people of God in a sad deception, yet honest in that deception. They know not that their condition is deplorable in the sight of God.

While those addressed are flattering themselves that they are in an exalted spiritual condition, the message of the True Witness breaks their security by the startling denunciation of their true condition of spiritual blindness, poverty, and wretchedness. The testimony, so cutting and severe, cannot be a mistake, for it is the True Witness who speaks and his testimony must be correct."--Testimonies, Vol. 3, pp. 252, 253.

We see that a straight and cutting message is to go to us, and it will cause a shaking. This shaking is not necessary to be seen by all or even the majority. Inspiration does not tell us, but it is clearly seen by God. In other words, sides are being made, one for the pure unadulterated truth , the other for truth and error (even stubbornly held onto traditional lessons we have held as a people yet God has sent a corrective message to be our "testing truth" (Testimonies, vol. 5, p.453)

Satan has his followers spreading falsehoods like, "hey everybody, it's that Sunday law that will 'shake" out God's people. Hogwash! Before that even happens we are experiencing a testing truth that either gets us sealed or we reject this True Witness message and fail to get the seal and will not stand in the church judgment.

"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" ( 1 Peter 4:17)

Just before we entered it (time of trouble) we all received the seal of the living God. Then I saw the 4 angels lease to hold the 4 winds." (7 BC, P.968)

What' I'm trying to say is I don't believe the shaking is connected with falling buildings. Or the financial market. Even those things may happen to cause it, they may not happen. The shaking is internal or a mental decision type of thing. Disasters may cause that to happen, but it may not be a falling building disaster. If it were to be connected with anything, I would say it would have to do with laws. Which may in turn be connected with disaster, but not necessarily a falling building disaster.

Brother Mark, one important point I forgot to mention is the powerful statement--"The solemn testimony upon which the destiny of the church hangs has been lightly esteemed, if not entirely disregarded. "--Early Writings, p. 270.

Whatever this all important message from the Lord is, it will cause division and "shaking"-- most or nearly ALL SDA will reject it- This is a powerful clue as to what this TRUE message will be. A largely rejected one, and one many "rise up against".

Which "shaking" are you referring to?

In you OP you quoted --
"What terrible scenes will take place when the Lord shall arise to shake terribly the earth"

That shaking will take place after probation closes.

There are other "shakings" that take place before probation closes.

A major "shaking" that we rarely hear talked about is a "shaking" to get everyone to join the papal led church.

That shaking is already started as the Protestant churches and the Adventist church have been infiltrated with all manner of prophetic confusion to wean people away from the clear message of the three angels.

We have the agenda from the Catholic writings themselves --

The major "shaking" that we rarely hear talked about is a "shaking" to get everyone to join the papal led church, and you can read about in 2 Thess. 2.


"2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2:4 Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

"The developments that were to take place in the future were to be "after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish." {AA 266.1}

There is no question in the early writings of Protestant reformers or in EGW's writings who those texts is referring to. It is the papal power which has now totally consecrated themselves to "mary", an apparition coming with signs and wonders.


"We are warned that in the last days he will work with signs and lying wonders. And he will continue these wonders until the close of probation, that he may point to them as evidence that he is an angel of light and not of darkness" (RH Nov. 17, 1885). {7BC 911.5}

2 Thess. 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Brother Mark,
In review of some past discussions of the shaking, it's helpful to see what transpired.

Mark-Regarding the earth swallowing up the tares, the wheat and tares grow together until the harvest is finished at the close of probation. The church will not be pure until it is shaken mainly by persecution and persecution lasts until probation closes and beyond during Jacob's time of trouble.

Just before that when the 144,000 give the three angel's messages with power, there will still be tares in the church. At the outpouring of the early rain there were tares then (the falling away had just begun) and it will be similar in the future. We will not know who the 144,000 are until after the close of probation. Why? Because Joel tells us that the Holy Spirit will be poured out on all flesh. Praise the Lord! (July 3, 2014)

The two underlined parts are points that I would like to discuss.

First, as shown the true "shaking" is to be done first and foremost within our church. And this comes from a message from God's servants TO THE CHURCH. This is key. it is not to the world (heathen). This is so important that Inspiration says the destiny of the church "hangs" upon it.

The shaking, when viewed in the above perspective does not indicate a physical leaving of the church, rather a division spiritually among the people. Two sides opposing each other because of this message. This message, many believe is the Lord's last--the Elijah message.

"There are two opposing influences continually exerted on the members of the church. One influence is working for the purification of the church, and the other for the corrupting of the people of God." (RH,Sept. 5, 1893)

Think about it, if the Lord called us blind and naked, why? Is it because He knew in our last days that we'd be stubborn or ignorant and to a large degree reject His last message of Elijah? I believe this is so. Even Ellen White said that this Elijah would be largely rejected (TM. p.475).

As far as the church not being "pure" until the persecution comes ( The time of trouble as never was). Inspiration disagrees as shown--

"Just before we entered it (time of trouble)we all received the seal of the living God. Then I saw the four angels lease to hold the four winds." ( BC, vol. 7, p.968)

Here we see that the remnant, which sadly Inspiration shows will be only the 144,000 from the SDA church, are pure and ready for the Loud cry.

One important point,which is often missed and over looked is the very first message the Lord sent our prophetess. The first vision was one where EGW saw ONLY 144,000 make it to the kingdom. The rest 'fell off" and where found no more. The Lord began our church will this warning , that few will humble themselves and believe His message of Elijah!

Believe me it breaks my heart to know the truth in regard to what our beloved church is heading for. Nevertheless, we must sound the alarm and plead. His end time plans and message of Elijah will stand whether we want it or not.

GLL, you know that sometimes I say too much. But I have to say, that's so encouraging that you took the trouble to review our discussion. When I saw that I said, "I've got to respond to my brother."

How about this quote:

That's a good quote and one that should be addressed. Before I do, does the truth of the church shaking make sense to you?

Please forgive me if this is a tad long.

We're dealing with two issues here--
1) What is the shaking among God's people?
2) Will the church be pure prior to the Loud Cry (time of trouble)?

The reason I bring up the church shaking is that, many SDA conveniently by bypass the straight testimony by SOP regarding what this church shaking is about. Hopefully that building block of truth can be seen by you to see the other developments during/prior to the time of trouble.

Concerning this quote --
When the third angel's message closes, mercy no longer pleads for the guilty inhabitants of the earth. The people of God have accomplished their work. . . . The final test has been brought upon the world, and all who have proved themselves loyal to the divine precepts have received "the seal of the living God." Then Jesus ceases His intercession in the sanctuary above. He lifts His hands, and with a loud voice says, "It is done." . . . {FLB 339.2}

Our challenge is to fit the above words of Inspiration to these words, so that Truth is complementary and not contradictory --

"Just before we entered it (time of trouble)we all received the seal of the living God. Then I saw the four angels lease to hold the four winds." ( BC, vol. 7, p.968)

I've underlined some key words in the subject quote. we see "final test" and we see it's for 'the world" and that it concerns obeying the 10 Commandments "divine precepts" (ie. Sabbath instead of Sunday law).

The Elijah message, the Lord's Rod , shows our answers. First let's understand what is the seal, as it should be understood today.

WHAT IS THE SEAL?

Question No. 21:

What is the seal of God upon the foreheads of the 144,000 (Rev. 7:3)? Is it the Sabbath seal or something else?

Answer:

"Being sealed in Christ “with that Holy Spirit of promise,” after having “heard the word of truth” (Eph. 1:13- 4:30), the saints are consequently sealed by Present Truth---the truth preached in their own day.

“The seal of the living God,” the Truth, by which the 144,000 are sealed (Rev. 7:2), is a special seal, being the same as “the mark” of Ezekiel 9. (See Testimonies to Ministers, p. 445; Testimonies, Vol. 3, p. 267; Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 211).

It demands one’s sighing and crying over the abominations which defile him, and which desecrate both the Sabbath and the house of God, especially against selling literature and raising goals during Sabbath services. As the saints have this seal or mark on their foreheads, the angels will pass over them, not slay them. It is equivalent to the blood on the door post on the night of the Passover in Egypt.

The angel is to place a mark upon the foreheads of all who by sighing over their own sins, and over the sins in the house of God, show fidelity to the Truth. Then the destroying angels will follow, to slay utterly both old and young who have failed to receive the seal. (See Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 505)

So, the former seal enables the receiver to rise from the dead in the resurrection of the just, while the latter seal enables the sighing-crying one to escape death and forever to live for God."
(Answerer, vol. 2, Q-21)

So to understand the seal, we see that a "seal" really is the 'settling into the truth so we can't be moved"(off of it) as we understand and accept our present truth, God's latest message to His people. Which in our case is the Lord's Elijah message. The Lord promised, as we know ONE last messenger to come right before the great and dreadful day of the Lord (Mal. 4:5, and TM, p.475)

Understanding this, Ellen White, no doubt was speaking of her future work, which the Rod teaches is known as the special resurrection for those counted worthy during the prior message of truth--the judgment of the dead in the holy Sanctuary. So as the Rod says, "the former seal enables the receiver to rise from the dead in the resurrection of the just, while the latter seal enables the sighing-crying one to escape death and forever to live for God."

So the quote --"Just before we entered it (time of trouble)we all received the seal of the living God. Then I saw the four angels lease to hold the four winds." ( BC, vol. 7, p.968)

Shows all of the SDA, those alive and those having been sealed prior, to be alive and ready for the Loud Cry. This truth is not well known, conveniently by the great hinderer and deceiver, but is further shown in the following reference-

"The battle cry is sounding along the line. Let every soldier of the cross push to the front, not in self-sufficiency, but in meekness and lowliness, and with firm faith in God. Your work, my work, will not cease with this life. For a little while we may rest in the grave, but, when the call comes, we shall, in the kingdom of God, take up our work once more."[color:#3333FF] (Testimonies, vol. 7, p.17)

The above reference shows further work to be taken up by herself and her people. Now, as the Rod shows clearly, the "kingdom" of God begins pre-millennial in the land of Israel. So this work is to be done again by the old-timers along with the 144,000. Those alive SDA who do not die because of accepting the "testing truth" which comes in a way that is not expected due to the deceiver's agents blasting it as --false and unworthy of our attention.

Unfortunately, he has active agents working everywhere through out our church, even right here on this site. Yet they know it not.

"Satan’s snares are laid for us as verily as they were laid for the children of Israel just prior to their entrance into the land of Canaan. We are repeating the history of that people.(Testimonies, vol. 5,p.160. )

Their history should be a solemn warning to us. We need never expect that when the Lord has light for his people, Satan will stand calmly by and make no effort to prevent them from receiving it. Let us beware that we do not refuse the light God sends, because it does not come in a way to please us.... If there are any who do not see and accept the light themselves, let them not stand in the way of others."(Testimonies, vol. 5 p.728.)

So we've cleared the meaning of the "all sealed" statement, what do we do with the other one? The answer comes when we realize that their are two sealings in these last days--one for the house of God and one for the world. The report that deals with it follows-

Two sealings report

One last comment for clarification. We must ever remember that a "mere assent to the truth" does not save us. Our works must be corresponding.

"The greatest deception of the human mind in Christ’s day was that a mere assent to the truth constitutes righteousness. In all human experience a theoretical knowledge of the truth has been proved to be insufficient for the saving of the soul. It does not bring forth the fruits of righteousness." (DA, p.309)

Yes --

The church is likened to 10 bridesmaids awaiting the coming of the bridegroom.

The foolish virgins trusted in the light they had and neglected to seek after the Holy Spirit (the oil behind the light).

Many who are now busy speaking evil of others, looking at the outward appearance, have been deceived into thinking that because they fit a particular code of outward "rightness" that they cannot possibly be among the lost.

The last essential message that the church needs, is not one of changed prophetic understanding, it's not one containing a new endtime game. The last essential message -- the one dealing with being "naked, blind, and miserable" is a SPIRITUAL condition of depending upon one's own righteousness rather than seeing their desperate need of Christ and his righteousness.



The time is right before us when the cry will go forth --
THE BRIDEGROOM IS COMING!

The Sunday laws will be upon us -- the world will be in turmoil. This is "the little time of trouble" before probation closes, when every knowledgeable Adventist will realize "THIS IS IT".


The wise will have the oil of the Holy Spirit to carry them through.

The foolish will go out to buy it.
But it's too late -- the oil is no longer available.
Yet they buy --

They will run to buy oil from an imposter -- a counterfeit.
A counterfeit looks like the real thing -- sounds like the real thing -- has a good measure of truth but laced with deadly error.

The foolish, who once rejoiced in the light will see the counterfeits as the light bearer, they will see the earthly "solutions" as the source of oil. They will buy.

But when God delivers His people, they will find themselves outside that "rainbow, shining with the glory from the throne of God, spans the heavens and seems to encircle each praying company....With fearful forebodings they gaze upon the symbol of God's covenant and long to be shielded from its overpowering brightness." (GC 363)

GLL you quoted Ellen White's warning that we are deceived if we believe only in theory but not in practice. That's a good reminder.



I personally appreciate your efforts to share the gospel here because you want us as your wayward brothers and sisters to be saved. If Adventists had as much concern for each other as you do for us, that would be very good. You're getting good experience here for the Loud Cry. Be faithful. The Lord will bring unity to His people. Persecution, heresies, etc will shake us all but if any man's will is to do his will he will know of the doctrine and will with the rest of the saints see eye to eye as the Lord's coming draws near.

Towards the start of this thread I quoted Ellen White's comment on the mark of the beast that we don't have a full understanding yet of what it is:

Then I said; "Two attention-grabbing things jump out of this quote: 1) That we don't know everything there is to know about the mark of the beast. I've suggested above that Babylon is guilty as Sodom and therefore this figures into the mark. 2) I can't say that categorically because of the other fascinating comment - that we won't know the full extent of what that mark involves until the "unrolling of the scroll.""

"What scroll is she talking about? The one that Daniel was told to seal and that is in the hand of the Father in Rev. 5, still sealed. It is unrolled when the Lamb takes it and brakes its seven seals one at a time - in the near future friends. I really believe that time is soon and because it's eminent I'm going to venture to make an educated guess based on the description of Babylon as the hold of every unclean spirit and cage of every vile bird that spiritualism and moral depravity are, in addition to Sunday worship, linked to the mark of the beast."

I've given this some more thought. You know, it could be that this whole mark of the beast issue will boil down to "political correctness" with Sunday as the outward sign of rebellion against God. Here's my thinking:

Babylon is said to be the hold of every foul spirit and the cage of every unclean bird. This worldly standard is what is now politically correct - pornography, homosexuality, spiritualism, lust, covetousness, impurity, profanity, immodesty, headiness, violence etc. Since the Word condemns all of these, it will be banned once again, slain in the streets of Sodom, as in the French Revolution. Being deprived of our Bibles is coming. (See the quote below.) Apparently it will not only be unlawful to work on Sunday, it will be a crime to have the Bible.

So it may be significant that in that quote above, Ellen White, after stating we have more to learn about the mark of the beast quotes Isaiah and admonishes us to lift up a protest - not unlike Luther's - and declare to Jacob his sins.

If Sunday encompassed the entire mark of the beast, that would not be enough reason for Babylon to be violently opposed to the entire Word of God. But the Loud Cry not only calls the people out of the darkness of Sun worship, it also dispels the darkness of political correctness. This is a thankless work, to say the least, this fourth angel does, but I want the blessing of it.

Mark- I personally appreciate your efforts to share the gospel here because you want us as your wayward brothers and sisters to be saved. If Adventists had as much concern for each other as you do for us, that would be very good. You're getting good experience here for the Loud Cry.

I am humbled brother Mark for your kind and generous words. Not to mention-truthful words. Yes, you have captured my whole intent here on this site--to help whosoever will, accept the Lord's message of Elijah (our present truth) and thus be sealed before God's wrath comes down upon His people.

Well, I really do appreciate your sincerity. I hope though that you'll remember the promise from Christ, "If any man's will is to do His will he will know of the doctrine." Let's covenant with the Lord and with each other to be faithful in this essential aspect - setting our wills to do the will of God. It is the doers of the will of God, not the hearers only who will be saved. Every man who sets his will on the side of God will be saved. There is a fountain flowing from the fresh wound in the side of Christ. Praise the Lord for His mercy endures forever.

Mark-Well, I really do appreciate your sincerity. I hope though that you'll remember the promise from Christ, "If any man's will is to do His will he will know of the doctrine."

Actually that is one of my favorite Scriptures. This is so packed with truth and goes hand and hand with this-

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." (John 16:13)

How do we know that the "Spirit of truth" is working in our life? By obeying His word. Isaiah gives more--

"But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear."(Isaiah 59:2)

If our repetitive sins cause Him to not hear us, can we expect to know His will/doctrine? In other words, those who cherish sins will indeed be blinded, yet most will not know it. Blind , just as it sounds, cannot see. These sins, sadly wil cause many to fulfill this prophecy--

"There is to be in the [Seventh-day Adventist] churches a wonderful manifestation of the power of God, but it will not move upon those who have not humbled themselves before the Lord, and opened the door of the heart by confession and repentance. In the manifestation of that power which lightens the earth with the glory of God, they will see only something which in their blindness they think dangerous, something which will arouse their fears, and they will brace themselves to resist it. Because the Lord does not work according to their ideas and expectations they will oppose the work. "Why," they say, "should we not know the Spirit of God, when we have been in the work so many years?"--RH Extra, Dec. 23, 1890.

I would agree with kland on this point. Sister White is treating New York City just like any other city in the world that will suffer terrible destruction when the Lord shakes the earth.

BTW, I always understood the "scroll" to mean when the atmosphere of the earth is rolled up like a scroll at Christ's Second Coming.

Alchemy