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Re: Why did the Protestant Reformation fail?
[Re: Charity]
#174176
06/14/15 01:52 AM
06/14/15 01:52 AM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2018
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
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Mark Shipowick wrote;
"If this year's Day of Atonement marks a paradigm transition in the ministry of Christ, how will that affect Adventism? This vision of the shaking in EW describes what to expect and Dedication, more than this, the vision shows how the Protestant Reformation ends in triumph. "
What is so special about Yom Kippur this year?
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Re: Why did the Protestant Reformation fail?
[Re: Alchemy]
#174189
06/14/15 09:04 AM
06/14/15 09:04 AM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2018
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
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Blessings everyone,
I do believe one issue particular needs to be cleared up in this discussion.
The Reformation had a very powerful agenda;
1) To open the Scriptures in the common languages. 2) To promote Liberty of Conscience as a divine concept. 3) To proclaim to the world that the Roman Papacy is the little horn power in Daniel and the antichrist power in Thessalonians.
And this is just to name a few.
The Protestant Reformation was not hap-hazard or aimless in its purposes, but it was driven by the power of the Holy Spirit. It was a return to primitive Godliness that was most desired by the Reformers.
There is very little respect of even consideration for these ideals today, even among Protestant churches.
Last edited by Alchemy; 06/14/15 09:05 AM.
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Re: Why did the Protestant Reformation fail?
[Re: Alchemy]
#174194
06/14/15 11:02 AM
06/14/15 11:02 AM
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SDA Active Member 2014 Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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Blessings everyone,
I do believe one issue particular needs to be cleared up in this discussion.
The Reformation had a very powerful agenda;
1) To open the Scriptures in the common languages. 2) To promote Liberty of Conscience as a divine concept. 3) To proclaim to the world that the Roman Papacy is the little horn power in Daniel and the antichrist power in Thessalonians.
And this is just to name a few.
The Protestant Reformation was not hap-hazard or aimless in its purposes, but it was driven by the power of the Holy Spirit. It was a return to primitive Godliness that was most desired by the Reformers.
There is very little respect of even consideration for these ideals today, even among Protestant churches.
This is so right. It is also remarkable that the great reformer Martin Luther proteted agains the priesthood in his church. He claimed the priesthood of all belivers meant that an ordination was not essential; that any believer could perform any of the duties prescribed by the church for the priests alone - where no minister is present. So in that area the reformation has failed in the Adventist Church. Here are some of the words of Luther: In the New Testament, the Holy Spirit carefully avoids giving the same ‘sacerdos’ priest, to any of the apostles or to any other office. Rather he accepts this name to the baptized, or Christians, as their birthright and heredity name…none of us is born an apostle, preacher, teacher, pastor; but there all of us are born solely priests - See more at: http://tifwe.org/resources/the-priesthood-of-all-believers/#sthash.KkcC7mBk.dpufQuoted in Ewald M. Plass, What Luther Says (Saint Louis: Concordia Publ. House, 1959), 1140. Actually the Reformation of Martin Luther conisted of three major points: 1. Scripture alone 2. Justification by faith alone 3. The priesthood of all believers. Many have forgotten the third point today.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Why did the Protestant Reformation fail?
[Re: Johann]
#174204
06/14/15 01:03 PM
06/14/15 01:03 PM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2018
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
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Johann wrote;
"Actually the Reformation of Martin Luther conisted of three major points:
1. Scripture alone 2. Justification by faith alone 3. The priesthood of all believers.
Many have forgotten the third point today."
I agree with all your points except the last one. The priesthood of all believers is taught and practiced in the SDA Church, we just include the context of Exodus 19:5,6. This is where it was first introduced among God's people.
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Re: Why did the Protestant Reformation fail?
[Re: Alchemy]
#174215
06/14/15 02:38 PM
06/14/15 02:38 PM
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SDA Active Member 2014 Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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Martin Luther (1483-1546)
German reformer and founder of the Lutheran church Martin Luther. A portrait by Lucas Carnach. (Lerner 452)
Luther is the most famous of all the reformers, for he is credited with initiating the Protestant reformation on October 31, 1517 when he nailed his now famous "95 Theses" objecting to the Catholic indulgence doctrine to the door of a church in Wittenberg, Germany.
Martin Luther was originally a Roman Catholic monk and scholar who soon found himself objecting not only to the abuses in his Church, but more crucially, to some of its doctrines, or teachings. After the publication of his "95 Theses," Luther found himself in more and more trouble with Church authorities so that by 1519 he finally broke with the Church and went on to write and preach and through these activities, continue the work of the Reformation.
Theological premises
Luther finally came up with three main premises, which are also accepted by many other Protestant groups. Christians should believe in:
Justification by faith (it is through faith only that Christians will be saved, not by Good Works as the Catholic Church maintained)
The primacy of Scripture (the literal meaning of the Bible should be preferred to any traditional or learned readings, and anything not specifically grounded in Scripture was to be rejected)
The "priest-hood of all believers" (ordained priests were not the only ones who should be considered members of the "true spiritual estate," so here Luther did away with the priesthood, though many Protestant groups still use ministers or pastors to lead others)
http://www.eng.fju.edu.tw/English_Literature/religion/PROTESTANTISM.htmlWhen was this changed? The 95 thesis were still hanging on the church door in Wittemberg last time we visited the place, and also when a son was there recently. We stayed at the Adventisit church in Wittemberg. They have a reasonable lodging for visitors.The communist regime helped the Adventists build a new church.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Why did the Protestant Reformation fail?
[Re: Johann]
#174871
07/03/15 12:46 AM
07/03/15 12:46 AM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2018
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
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Johann wrote; " http://www.eng.fju.edu.tw/English_Literature/religion/PROTESTANTISM.htmlWhen was this changed? The 95 thesis were still hanging on the church door in Wittemberg last time we visited the place, and also when a son was there recently. We stayed at the Adventisit church in Wittemberg. They have a reasonable lodging for visitors.The communist regime helped the Adventists build a new church." The 95 thesis may still hang on the door, but, Protestantism has lost its savor in the world.
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Re: Why did the Protestant Reformation fail?
[Re: Alchemy]
#174900
07/03/15 04:59 PM
07/03/15 04:59 PM
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SDA Active Member 2014 Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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The 95 thesis may still hang on the door, but, Protestantism has lost its savor in the world.
Fully agreed, Alchemy. Why should Rome then retain such a marked influence also within the Seventh-day Adventist Church? Do we think we are immune? The first settlers in Iceland came here about 1500 years ago. Those early Christians had learned the Gospel from the Apostle John around Ephesus and migrated through Europe to Ireland (Not Iceland). When the Roman Catholics arrived in Ireland later they brought soldiers with them to force all to accept the Roman religion. The prime Christians refused to accept the Roman herecies and fled, first to the islands between Ireland and Scotland, then to the Orkney Islands and finally to Iceland. We know of two doctrines the Romans tried to enforce which the Kelts refused to accept. 1. Sunday keeping 2. Male only ministry These early Christians had learned from John to keep the Seventh-day Sabbath and to engage women in the ministry. Several died as martyrs because they refused to accept the Roman doctrines. Do we have the courage to refuse all of the Romanism in our church today? Or is our faith just a worthless doctrine?
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Why did the Protestant Reformation fail?
[Re: Alchemy]
#175463
07/18/15 10:11 PM
07/18/15 10:11 PM
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Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,106
Florida, USA
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Johann wrote; " http://www.eng.fju.edu.tw/English_Literature/religion/PROTESTANTISM.htmlWhen was this changed? The 95 thesis were still hanging on the church door in Wittemberg last time we visited the place, and also when a son was there recently. We stayed at the Adventisit church in Wittemberg. They have a reasonable lodging for visitors.The communist regime helped the Adventists build a new church." The 95 thesis may still hang on the door, but, Protestantism has lost its savor in the world. They have lost more than that as very few even know what they believe anymore..
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Re: Why did the Protestant Reformation fail?
[Re: Alchemy]
#175473
07/19/15 03:53 PM
07/19/15 03:53 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Which is why Satan is aiming at a "a grand movement . . . new and more exalted system of religious faith". GC 589. Catholics, Protestants, and worldlings alike will be deceived and join the grand movement and new religion. The line of distinction between professed Christians and the ungodly is now hardly distinguishable. Church members love what the world loves and are ready to join with them, and Satan determines to unite them in one body and thus strengthen his cause by sweeping all into the ranks of spiritualism. Papists, who boast of miracles as a certain sign of the true church, will be readily deceived by this wonder-working power; and Protestants, having cast away the shield of truth, will also be deluded. Papists, Protestants, and worldlings will alike accept the form of godliness without the power, and they will see in this union a grand movement for the conversion of the world and the ushering in of the long-expected millennium. {GC 588.3}
Through spiritualism, Satan appears as a benefactor of the race, healing the diseases of the people, and professing to present a new and more exalted system of religious faith; but at the same time he works as a destroyer. His temptations are leading multitudes to ruin. Intemperance dethrones reason; sensual indulgence, strife, and bloodshed follow. Satan delights in war, for it excites the worst passions of the soul and then sweeps into eternity its victims steeped in vice and blood. It is his object to incite the nations to war against one another, for he can thus divert the minds of the people from the work of preparation to stand in the day of God. {GC 589.1} This grand movement and new religion has not yet developed - but it will.
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Re: Why did the Protestant Reformation fail?
[Re: dedication]
#175574
07/23/15 10:57 AM
07/23/15 10:57 AM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2018
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
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dedication wrote;
"Maybe saying the Reformation "failed" isn't quite correct. The Reformation made some gigantic leaps out of darkness into light. It broke the suffocating hold of the medieval church and brought the scriptures with its truths to the common people. But then it faltered in its advance into truth and drew slowly back. "
Excellent point dedication.
The fact that we are here is proof the Reformation is still alive. But, it hasn't lived up to it's true potential in centuries.
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