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Re: Why is rejection of the SOP happening? [Re: Rick H] #176258
08/23/15 04:36 AM
08/23/15 04:36 AM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Prodigal - surely you are familiar with the fact that most of the Adventist Pioneers could not accept the 28FB and MM would not allow them to be members because of this, right?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Why is rejection of the SOP happening? [Re: ProdigalOne] #176281
08/24/15 01:09 AM
08/24/15 01:09 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
Let's see what Paul says next:

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." Galations 5:19-21

"Adultery, fornication, lasciviousness,(that almost sounds like one of God's Ten Commandments)? "Thou shalt not commit adultery". "Envyings", (sounds like another Commandment)? "Thou shalt not covet". "witchcraft" (sounds like another Commandment)? "3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. "murders" (sounds like yet another Commandment)? "Thou shalt not kill". "And such like".

"they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

It almost sounds like Paul is suggesting that "loving your neighbor as yourself". Means obeying God by keeping His Law of Love, The Ten Commandments?

"[This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."
Galations 5:16

It almost sounds like Paul is saying that "walking in the Spirit" will help you obey God's Law of Love, The Ten Commandments.




This is not about a moral Decalogue, but about SDA endeavouring to throw a denominational wet blanket, i.e. its 28FB, over the conscience of its members and have it so sealed. Your mind is sacred, and no one should ever tell you what you ought to believe or not believe, with the intent of policing your heart.

OR are you in league with the Popes of the Dark Ages?

///

Re: Why is rejection of the SOP happening? [Re: ProdigalOne] #176282
08/24/15 01:13 AM
08/24/15 01:13 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
James Peterson, are you familiar with rule one of this forum? Did you read it when you signed up?

Membership rule #1

1 - You must either be a member of the Seventh-day Adventist Church or a friend of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to become a member of Maritime Advent Believers OnLine.

I see from your profile that you are not a Seventh Day Adventist and after hearing your animosity toward our Fundamental Beliefs, it is difficult to believe that you are a friend of the Seventh Day Adventist Church.

We're you being dishonest when you joined this forum?

I'm wondering what your motivation is for being here?



Luke 4:16-30, and for good measure Mat. 21:33-46

///

Re: Why is rejection of the SOP happening? [Re: James Peterson] #176300
08/24/15 02:02 PM
08/24/15 02:02 PM
A
Alchemy  Offline
SDA
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Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
James Peterson wrote;

"This is not about a moral Decalogue, but about SDA endeavouring to throw a denominational wet blanket, i.e. its 28FB, over the conscience of its members and have it so sealed. Your mind is sacred, and no one should ever tell you what you ought to believe or not believe, with the intent of policing your heart."

Galatians 5:19-21 is a short enough passage to read, and it directly mentions adultery and idolatry which are directly covered in the Ten Commandments. So, I believe ProdigalOne's post made sense Biblically.

Re: Why is rejection of the SOP happening? [Re: Rick H] #176301
08/24/15 02:31 PM
08/24/15 02:31 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
James, the 28FB are biblical. Each one of them is sound doctrine. It is the official beliefs of the SDA Church. They are verified in the Spirit of prophecy - the writings of Ellen White.

Re: Why is rejection of the SOP happening? [Re: Alchemy] #176302
08/24/15 03:03 PM
08/24/15 03:03 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Galatians 5:19-21 is a short enough passage to read, and it directly mentions adultery and idolatry which are directly covered in the Ten Commandments. So, I believe ProdigalOne's post made sense Biblically.

As I said, THIS THREAD "is not about a moral Decalogue, but about SDA endeavouring to throw a denominational wet blanket, i.e. its 28FB, over the conscience of its members and have it so sealed. Your mind is sacred, and no one should ever tell you what you ought to believe or not believe, with the intent of policing your heart."

///

Re: Why is rejection of the SOP happening? [Re: Mountain Man] #176303
08/24/15 03:09 PM
08/24/15 03:09 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
James, the 28FB are biblical. Each one of them is sound doctrine. It is the official beliefs of the SDA Church. They are verified in .... the writings of Ellen White.

Nevertheless, that does not give you the Divine right to police the mind of others. Do you long for the dark ages? Does your heart quicken at the thought of a Spanish Inquisition? Is your mouth salivating before pictures of torture instruments?

///

Re: Why is rejection of the SOP happening? [Re: James Peterson] #176309
08/25/15 02:44 AM
08/25/15 02:44 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline
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Active Member 2024
Supporting Member 2023

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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,168
Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
Let's see what Paul says next:

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." Galations 5:19-21

"Adultery, fornication, lasciviousness,(that almost sounds like one of God's Ten Commandments)? "Thou shalt not commit adultery". "Envyings", (sounds like another Commandment)? "Thou shalt not covet". "witchcraft" (sounds like another Commandment)? "3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. "murders" (sounds like yet another Commandment)? "Thou shalt not kill". "And such like".

"they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

It almost sounds like Paul is suggesting that "loving your neighbor as yourself". Means obeying God by keeping His Law of Love, The Ten Commandments?

"[This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."
Galations 5:16

It almost sounds like Paul is saying that "walking in the Spirit" will help you obey God's Law of Love, The Ten Commandments.




This is not about a moral Decalogue, but about SDA endeavouring to throw a denominational wet blanket, i.e. its 28FB, over the conscience of its members and have it so sealed. Your mind is sacred, and no one should ever tell you what you ought to believe or not believe, with the intent of policing your heart.

OR are you in league with the Popes of the Dark Ages?

///


Your own quote says you are talking about "the entire law".

"For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" (verse 14)


In any case it is interesting, I just read through the 28 Fundamental Beliefs. They all seem to agree with God's Word. They are all summed up nicely in the first statement:

Holy Scriptures FB- #1

The Holy Scriptures, Old and New Testaments, are the written Word of God, given by divine inspiration through holy men of God who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. In this Word, God has committed to man the knowledge necessary for salvation. The Holy Scriptures are the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the authoritative revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God’s acts in history. (2 Peter 1:20, 21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Ps. 119:105; Prov. 30:5, 6; Isa. 8:20; John 17:17; 1 Thess. 2:13; Heb. 4:12.)

All of the remaining 27 agree with Scripture. They are merely clarifications of what is clearly stated in the Bible, in much the same way as Paul clarifies God's Word in Galations 5:

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

He could have just said: "Obey the Ten Commandments, but knowing the hearts of human beings and the wiles of Satan, he spelled it out for them, so there could be no misunderstandings.

As for being in "league with the Popes?" I don't think our leaders are going to put anyone to death for leaving the Seventh Day Adventist Church.

In fact the Fundamental Beliefs are a method of assuring that someone who does not believe the teachings of the Bible does not join a church in which he or she would not find spiritual unity.

Is it really Fundamental Beliefs in general to which you object? Perhaps it is just the SDA Fundamental Beliefs you have a problem with?

You have no objection to number one, I'm sure. I mean would you really want to join a church that does not believe:
"The Holy Scriptures, Old and New Testaments, are the written Word of God..."

I wonder which of the 28 you don't like?



"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Why is rejection of the SOP happening? [Re: Rick H] #176314
08/25/15 03:47 AM
08/25/15 03:47 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024
Supporting Member 2023

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,168
Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
James Peterson, are you familiar with rule one of this forum?  Did you read it when you signed up?

Membership rule #1

1 - You must either be a member of the Seventh-day Adventist Church or a friend of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to become a member of Maritime Advent Believers OnLine.

I see from your profile that you are not a Seventh Day Adventist and after hearing your animosity toward our Fundamental Beliefs, it is difficult to believe that you are a friend of the Seventh Day Adventist Church. 

We're you being dishonest when you joined this forum?

I'm wondering what your motivation is for being here?  


 

Luke 4:16-30, and for good measure Mat. 21:33-46

///



Are you here to free us unfortunate Seventh Day Adventists, who choose to acknowledge and accept the power and grace of the Spirit of the Living God: He who gives us the strength to live righteous, obedient, lives as He has promised?

If you directed me to Luke 4:16-30, because you believe: "The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon" you, (Luke 4:18), why then do you manifest such a different "spirit"?  

You suggest Mountain Man should "castrate" himself!  
You suggest that I am "in league with the Popes of the Dark Ages?"!  (a rather hefty insult to direct at a Seventh Day Adventist, as I assume you know)
You suggest that Mountain Man: "longs for the dark ages", that his "heart quickens at the thought of a Spanish Inquisition", that his "mouth salivates before pictures of torture instruments"

Mountain Man and I do not agree on every interpretation of every Scripture, but I have not the slightest shadow of a doubt that he possesses a remarkable love for God and cherishes freedom, especially religious freedom!

James Peterson, your personal, ad hominem, attacks, seem designed to humiliate and provoke to anger.  If this is what you believe to be "the Spirit of the Lord" (Luke 4:18), then I humbly and prayerfully beg that you read the rest of Paul's words in Galatians, 5:

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."

Galatians 5:22-23


"For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.
A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh."

Luke 6:43-45


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Why is rejection of the SOP happening? [Re: James Peterson] #176326
08/25/15 02:45 PM
08/25/15 02:45 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: James Peterson
M: James, the 28FB are biblical. Each one of them is sound doctrine. It is the official beliefs of the SDA Church. They are verified in .... the writings of Ellen White.

J: Nevertheless, that does not give you the Divine right to police the mind of others. Do you long for the dark ages? Does your heart quicken at the thought of a Spanish Inquisition? Is your mouth salivating before pictures of torture instruments?

The SDA Church will never torture its members or leaders. Everyone is free to believe as they wish. They are not, however, free to claim to be a SDA in good and regular standing and attack its fundamental beliefs. Membership doesn't work like that. This thread is about the SOP. SDA members and leaders accept the witness and testimony of the SOP. They do not reject it.

Page 10 of 10 1 2 8 9 10

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