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Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor #176344
08/26/15 02:29 AM
08/26/15 02:29 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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While Florida is busy undermining Doug Batchelor's sacred ministry, he is about his Father's business!

Let us put aside fruitless debates, satanically inspired to separate us and devour the short time left before all cases are decided. Let us follow the example of Pastor Batchelor, and not be DISTRACTED from our God given duty!

This recent video lays bare many of the Pope's near future strategies for the popularization of Sunday sacredness. The time is so very short, brothers and sisters. Are we ready?

The video is less than ten minutes long and worth every second:

http://www.amazingfacts.org/news-and-features/af-blog/article/id/12009/t/the-pope-promotes-sunday





Last edited by Daryl; 08/30/15 03:13 AM. Reason: Edited Embeded Video into this post.

"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176355
08/26/15 04:52 PM
08/26/15 04:52 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Canada
Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
While Florida is busy undermining Doug Batchelor's sacred ministry, he is about his Father's business! Let us put aside fruitless debates, satanically inspired to separate us and devour the short time left before all cases are decided. Let us follow the example of Pastor Batchelor, and not be DISTRACTED from our God given duty! This recent video lays bare many of the Pope's near future strategies for the popularization of Sunday sacredness. The time is so very short, brothers and sisters. Are we ready? The video is less than ten minutes long and worth every second.

You err, not knowing the scriptures, i.e. the Holy Bible. Jesus said, "This gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness, and then the end will come." And what is that GOOD NEWS to be proclaimed in all the world before the end? "Because iniquity will abound, the love of many will grow cold but he who endures to the end, the same shall be saved."

Jesus has never asked anyone to pay attention to the Pope or Doug Batchelor. Rather this is the gospel: GOOD NEWS = he who endures to the end WILL BE SAVED.

///

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: James Peterson] #176363
08/27/15 07:48 AM
08/27/15 07:48 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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J
Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
While Florida is busy undermining Doug Batchelor's sacred ministry, he is about his Father's business! Let us put aside fruitless debates, satanically inspired to separate us and devour the short time left before all cases are decided. Let us follow the example of Pastor Batchelor, and not be DISTRACTED from our God given duty! This recent video lays bare many of the Pope's near future strategies for the popularization of Sunday sacredness. The time is so very short, brothers and sisters. Are we ready? The video is less than ten minutes long and worth every second.

You err, not knowing the scriptures, i.e. the Holy Bible. Jesus said, "This gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness, and then the end will come." And what is that GOOD NEWS to be proclaimed in all the world before the end? "Because iniquity will abound, the love of many will grow cold but he who endures to the end, the same shall be saved."

Jesus has never asked anyone to pay attention to the Pope or Doug Batchelor. Rather this is the gospel: GOOD NEWS = he who endures to the end WILL BE SAVED.

///




It is written in the first of the Three Angels' Messages:

"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people..." Revelation 14:6

Doug Batchelor is dedicated to preaching the Three Angels' Messages; therefore, he is preaching the "Good News", and we should all pay close attention to his words!

The third of the Three Angels' Messages warns of the Mark of the Beast. The Beast has been identified as the Papacy by a majority of Protestant churches since the time of Luther. Warnings about the Papacy were prophesied by John to be delivered along with the "Everlasting Gospel"!

"And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb". Revelation 14:9-10


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176364
08/27/15 08:06 AM
08/27/15 08:06 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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Mr. James Peterson, or is it Father James Peterson?

I have been reading through some of your posts on other threads. It is painfully obvious, you are not a Seventh Day Adventist and you are a "friend" to Seventh Day Adventists in much the same way as a wolf is a "friend" to sheep!


You are fully aware of the denominational affiliation and Fundamental Beliefs of the majority of members on this site. Why don't you fill us in on your denomination and beliefs?

Remember: "The Truth shall set you free.".


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176371
08/27/15 04:54 PM
08/27/15 04:54 PM
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James Peterson  Offline
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Canada
Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
Mr. James Peterson, or is it Father James Peterson? I have been reading through some of your posts on other threads. It is painfully obvious, you are not a Seventh Day Adventist and you are a "friend" to Seventh Day Adventists in much the same way as a wolf is a "friend" to sheep! You are fully aware of the denominational affiliation and Fundamental Beliefs of the majority of members on this site. Why don't you fill us in on your denomination and beliefs? Remember: "The Truth shall set you free.".

I am an SDA. But SDA have a great many false doctrines. I only wish to correct those false ideas. One of those false beliefs is that God is VERY angry because some people are worshiping Him on Sundays instead of Saturdays. "The truth will set you free" indeed.

///

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: James Peterson] #176376
08/27/15 09:58 PM
08/27/15 09:58 PM
ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
Mr. James Peterson, or is it Father James Peterson? I have been reading through some of your posts on other threads. It is painfully obvious, you are not a Seventh Day Adventist and you are a "friend" to Seventh Day Adventists in much the same way as a wolf is a "friend" to sheep! You are fully aware of the denominational affiliation and Fundamental Beliefs of the majority of members on this site. Why don't you fill us in on your denomination and beliefs? Remember: "The Truth shall set you free.".

I am an SDA. But SDA have a great many false doctrines. I only wish to correct those false ideas. One of those false beliefs is that God is VERY angry because some people are worshiping Him on Sundays instead of Saturdays. "The truth will set you free" indeed.

///



Interesting, on each of your posts below your name it says "NON-SDA??

I believe the book of Revelation teaches that God will be VERY angry when the civil and religious authorities unite to legislate Sunday laws, thus forming "an Image to the Beast", at which point Sunday worship will become the Mark of the Beast.
There is nothing to indicate that God is angry at those who have no knowledge of the true Sabbath.

IMAO, many ignorant and sincere, Sunday keepers are more dedicated to the Lord than the majority of Seventh Day Adventists. It is these precious souls that must be warned and called out of Babylon. In the Three Angels' Messages, our merciful God is sending a message of His Grace(unmerited favor), a warning, before His wrath is kindled. His "sheep will hear His voice".

Since the Three Angels' Messages are intended to save God's people (those who hear and believe it) from the impending destruction of Babylon, they are in fact the very essence of the Gospel!

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." Romans 1:16

This is precisely what Godly people, such as Doug Batchelor are doing, preaching the Gospel of Christ.






"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176377
08/27/15 11:53 PM
08/27/15 11:53 PM
APL  Offline
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Western, USA
Originally Posted By: prodigal
I believe the book of Revelation teaches that God will be VERY angry when the civil and religious authorities unite to legislate Sunday laws, thus forming "an Image to the Beast", at which point Sunday worship will become the Mark of the Beast.
Funny you use the screen name of prodigal, yet do not know the character of the Father just as the prodigal son did not know the character of his father. Was the Father angry with his son? God is not an severe judge, as harsh creditor nor revengeful. Jesus is the EXACT representation of what God is like. If you have seen Christ, you have seen the Father.

What is God's anger? Is it something that makes Him lash out an people, inflict pain and suffering? No, that is the work of a different power.

If you look at the writings of EGW, you find one situation where you may think that God is angry in the human sense (He is not), and that is towards whom? Those who make Sunday Laws? Nope. It is those that make the Sabbath a burden and a reproach. She writes, God is angry with CHRISTIANS "because he has taken a course to make the Sabbath as annoying as possible to them, he is a stumbling-block to sinners, a reproach to the sacred truth, and unless he repents it were better for him that a millstone were hung about his neck, and he cast into the sea." What why would it be better if he put a millstone around his neck, because of what God is going to inflict on that person? Oh that you could see God as He is revealed by His Son!


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176378
08/28/15 02:36 AM
08/28/15 02:36 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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APL, can a loving God let go and let evil angels cause death, disease, and devastation? Why does He allow evil men and evil angels kill innocent women and children?

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176381
08/28/15 04:07 AM
08/28/15 04:07 AM
APL  Offline
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You question has been answered over and over. Why do you ignore the answer?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: APL] #176383
08/28/15 08:40 AM
08/28/15 08:40 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: prodigal
I believe the book of Revelation teaches that God will be VERY angry when the civil and religious authorities unite to legislate Sunday laws, thus forming "an Image to the Beast", at which point Sunday worship will become the Mark of the Beast.
Funny you use the screen name of prodigal, yet do not know the character of the Father just as the prodigal son did not know the character of his father. Was the Father angry with his son? God is not an severe judge, as harsh creditor nor revengeful. Jesus is the EXACT representation of what God is like. If you have seen Christ, you have seen the Father.

What is God's anger? Is it something that makes Him lash out an people, inflict pain and suffering? No, that is the work of a different power.

If you look at the writings of EGW, you find one situation where you may think that God is angry in the human sense (He is not), and that is towards whom? Those who make Sunday Laws? Nope. It is those that make the Sabbath a burden and a reproach. She writes, God is angry with CHRISTIANS "because he has taken a course to make the Sabbath as annoying as possible to them, he is a stumbling-block to sinners, a reproach to the sacred truth, and unless he repents it were better for him that a millstone were hung about his neck, and he cast into the sea." What why would it be better if he put a millstone around his neck, because of what God is going to inflict on that person? Oh that you could see God as He is revealed by His Son!




God is supremely patient with His children; however, after humanity has for thousands of years, continually shunned His offer of Grace, there comes a time when there is no repentance left in the race, and His patience runs out.


"The wrath of God is not declared against unrepentant sinners merely because of the sins they have committed, but because, when called to repent, they choose to continue in resistance, repeating the sins of the past in defiance of the light given them. If the Jewish leaders had submitted to the convicting power of the Holy Spirit, they would have been pardoned; but they were determined not to yield. In the same way, the sinner, by continued resistance, places himself where the Holy Spirit cannot influence him." – {AA 62.1}


The passage above from Ellen White and the verses below from Revelation clearly state that God's wrath is directed at people. Wrath is anger in its most virulent sense.

To be clear, God's anger is kindled because of humanities' stubborn rejection of His offers of salvation. Punishment falls on humanity by its own choice, its own decisions incur God's wrath

"And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand
?"

Revelation 6:16-17

"And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

Revelation 11:18

"And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb."

Revelation 14:9-10

"And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast [it] into the great winepress of the wrath of God."

Revelation 14:19


"And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God."

Revelation 15:1

"And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever."

Revelation 15:7

"And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth."

Revelation 16:1

"And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath."

Revelation 16:19

"15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."

Revelation 19:15-16


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: APL] #176384
08/28/15 09:20 AM
08/28/15 09:20 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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Quote:
Funny you use the screen name of prodigal, yet do not know the character of the Father just as the prodigal son did not know the character of his father. Was the Father angry with his son? God is not an severe judge, as harsh creditor nor revengeful. Jesus is the EXACT representation of what God is like. If you have seen Christ, you have seen the Father.

What is God's anger? Is it something that makes Him lash out an people, inflict pain and suffering? No, that is the work of a different power.




I chose the screen name ProdigalOne because the Father rejoices and forgives those who turn away from the world and return to Him.
If the sinner does not turn away from sin and does not seek God, then there can be no forgiveness, no salvation, only fearful waiting for the execution of judgement when the anger of God is expressed. It is the sinner's choice: punishment, or salvation.

Whether we choose deliverance or destruction, the Lord is not to blame for our decisions.



"And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables". John 2:14-15

"...Jesus rebuked this unholy traffic. Divinity flashed through humanity, as He went into the temple of God, “and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves; ... saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called ... the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves”" (Mark 11:15-17). – {1MR 207.3}


"Jesus is the EXACT representation of what God is like. If you have seen Christ, you have seen the Father."

I agree completely! The quotes above from SOP and John, show that there are times when Jesus; and therefore the Father, is angry with people.


"...when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple".

Does it seem to you that Jesus was "angry" at these people who were desecrating His Father's House? It would appear there are things that make Him "lash out at people"!



"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: APL] #176392
08/28/15 04:26 PM
08/28/15 04:26 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Originally Posted By: APL
M: APL, can a loving God let go and let evil angels cause death, disease, and devastation? Why does He allow evil men and evil angels kill innocent women and children?

A: You question has been answered over and over. Why do you ignore the answer?

I ask over and over again because you bring it up over and over again. However, you have never truly, clearly answered the question. I can recall one time you saying the reason God permits evil men and evil angels to torture and kill innocent women and children is because He honors, respects their freedom to think and do as they please. But your answer ignores the desires of the innocent women and children who pray earnestly for safety and protection. Your view implies God chooses to dishonor, disrespect the pleas of the innocent choosing rather to honor, respect the plans of the evil. All throughout history God has repeatedly chosen to intervene and prevent the evil plans of evil men and evil angels. And He did so without violating their freedom to think and do.

So, the question remains - Why does Jesus choose to intervene and prevent the evil plans of evil men and evil angels? And why does He sometimes choose not to intervene and prevent their evil plans? Why does Jesus sometimes withdraw His protection and permit evil men and evil angels to torture and kill innocent women and children?

Again, you have never clearly answered this question. You boast of a loving God and, yet, somehow you are okay with Him allowing evil men and evil angels to torture and kill innocent women and children. I have no doubt you will avoid answering my questions. To each his own.

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176393
08/28/15 04:39 PM
08/28/15 04:39 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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The mark of deliverance has been set upon those "that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done." Now the angel of death goes forth, represented in Ezekiel's vision by the men with the slaughtering weapons, to whom the command is given: "Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary." Says the prophet: "They began at the ancient men which were before the house." Ezekiel 9:1-6. The work of destruction begins among those who have professed to be the spiritual guardians of the people. The false watchmen are the first to fall. There are none to pity or to spare. Men, women, maidens, and little children perish together. {GC 656.2}

"The Lord cometh out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain." Isaiah 26:21. "And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold everyone on the hand of his neighbor, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbor." Zechariah 14:12, 13. In the mad strife of their own fierce passions, and by the awful outpouring of God's unmingled wrath, fall the wicked inhabitants of the earth--priests, rulers, and people, rich and poor, high and low. "And the slain of the Lord shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried." Jeremiah 25:33. {GC 656.3}

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176396
08/29/15 04:07 AM
08/29/15 04:07 AM
APL  Offline
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Originally Posted By: prodigal
I chose the screen name ProdigalOne because the Father rejoices and forgives those who turn away from the world and return to Him.
So, you have to turn to him or else! What would God do to those that to not turn to him? Get mad, then torture and kill you, right?
Originally Posted By: prodigal
If the sinner does not turn away from sin and does not seek God, then there can be no forgiveness, no salvation, only fearful waiting for the execution of judgement when the anger of God is expressed. It is the sinner's choice: punishment, or salvation.
So, turn to Him or He will execute you. Nice. This is, "Love me, or I'll kill you". What draws us to God? The fear of punishment?
Originally Posted By: prodigal
Whether we choose deliverance or destruction, the Lord is not to blame for our decisions.
So we don't hold God responsible when He tortures sinners.
Originally Posted By: prodigal
{1MR 207.3} quoted
Did Christ hit people with His whip?
Originally Posted By: prodigal
"...when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple".

Does it seem to you that Jesus was "angry" at these people who were desecrating His Father's House? It would appear there are things that make Him "lash out at people"!
Did Christ "lash out at people?" You put this in quotes. Why? Where you quoting something or someone? Christ never hit anyone. What happened right after Christ cleansed the temple? The poor did not flee. The children came to Him. They were not afraid.
Originally Posted By: prodigal
"Jesus is the EXACT representation of what God is like. If you have seen Christ, you have seen the Father."

I agree completely! The quotes above from SOP and John, show that there are times when Jesus; and therefore the Father, is angry with people.
I don't think you understand what really happened. Did Christ ever hit anyone? Did Christ ever kill anyone? No.

I know of only place that EGW speaks of God being angry. And that is NOT as you say, those the write Sunday laws. What situation did EGW write this as this is on topic with this thread.

Originally Posted By: prodigal
God is supremely patient with His children; however, after humanity has for thousands of years, continually shunned His offer of Grace, there comes a time when there is no repentance left in the race, and His patience runs out.
Really. What is God's wrath? What is the "wrath of the lamb?" A lamb is a baby sheep. Are they wrathful? Read Romans 1 where His wrath is clearly defined.

What draws you to God? A fear of punishment?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176399
08/29/15 03:33 PM
08/29/15 03:33 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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APL, you are avoiding my questions - just as I predicted. Is it because you don't have answers? If so, no big deal. It's understandable. There are "strange" things about God He hasn't explained yet.

Quote:
God's judgments will be visited upon those who are seeking to oppress and destroy His people. His long forbearance with the wicked emboldens men in transgression, but their punishment is nonetheless certain and terrible because it is long delayed. "The Lord shall rise up as in Mount Perazim, He shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that He may do His work, His strange work; and bring to pass His act, His strange act." Isaiah 28:21. To our merciful God the act of punishment is a strange act. "As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked." Ezekiel 33:11. The Lord is "merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, . . . forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin." Yet He will "by no means clear the guilty." "The Lord is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked." Exodus 34:6, 7; Nahum 1:3. By terrible things in righteousness He will vindicate the authority of His downtrodden law. The severity of the retribution awaiting the transgressor may be judged by the Lord's reluctance to execute justice. The nation with which He bears long, and which He will not smite until it has filled up the measure of its iniquity in God's account, will finally drink the cup of wrath unmixed with mercy. {GC 627.2}

I find it shocking you believe the description and explanation in the passage posted above refers to God withdrawing His protection and giving evil angels permission to execute justice and punishment on His behalf. Evil angels vindicating God's retribution. Amazing.

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176400
08/29/15 03:37 PM
08/29/15 03:37 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Quote:
. . . the command is given: "Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women . . .

APL, who will issue the command described above? Do you agree it is Jesus? Or, do you believe it is Satan? Again, I suspect you will avoid this question.

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176406
08/29/15 05:50 PM
08/29/15 05:50 PM
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MM - I have answered you questions abundantly repeatedly. You choose to take a few isolated texts, and build your belief. You ignore references which unlock others. You take verses which support your violent view of God and ignore those that prove Him to be just the opposite. I can't change you, that is not my role. Only the Spirit can do that. Take the word as a whole. ONLY then can you see the truth as it is in Jesus. If all you do is use key text study, you will fail every time to see the Truth. I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God to salvation to every one that believes. If you know your Bible, you know where that reference is located and what follows. You quote Great Controversy, but refuse to take it as a whole ignoring Chapter 1.

What draws you to God? A fear of punishment? Does God say, "Love Me, or I'll kill you?"


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176407
08/29/15 05:57 PM
08/29/15 05:57 PM
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Prodigal what's going on in Florida that you referred to initially?

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176408
08/29/15 06:08 PM
08/29/15 06:08 PM
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APL, I am not comfortable doing what you do, namely, interpret passages which plainly say God executes justice and punishment to mean God permits evil men and evil angels to torture and kill people. I believe both scenarios are true - 1) God executes justice and punishment, and 2) God permits evil men and evil angels to torture and kill people. I also believe it is a grave disservice to interpret plainly worded passages to mean something they clearly do not say or mean.

No, you have not answered my questions. You have never answered them. So, the question remains - Why does Jesus choose to intervene and prevent the evil plans of evil men and evil angels? And why does He sometimes choose not to intervene and prevent their evil plans? Why does Jesus sometimes withdraw His protection and permit evil men and evil angels to torture and kill innocent women and children?

Again, you have never answered these questions. Never. If you believe you have, please repost it here. Otherwise, simply say so now.

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: Mountain Man] #176409
08/29/15 06:09 PM
08/29/15 06:09 PM
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Bump for APL:

Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Quote:
. . . the command is given: "Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women . . .

APL, who will issue the command described above? Do you agree it is Jesus? Or, do you believe it is Satan? Again, I suspect you will avoid this question.

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: Charity] #176412
08/29/15 07:11 PM
08/29/15 07:11 PM
ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
Prodigal what's going on in Florida that you referred to initially?



I was referring to the thread: "Doug Batchelor Prohibited to Speak by Florida Conference"


Here is the initial post by Dedication:

Doug Batchelor was to speak at the Spring Meadows Church in Sanford, Florida during a week-long revival meeting planned for the Fall.

However, administration in the Florida Conference of Seventh-day Adventists recommended a change of speakers, because, they said, Pastor Batchelor was a negative polarizing influence in the Seventh-day Adventist Church concerning women's ordination.

Amazing Facts invested significant time and resources toward planning and preparing for the success of the Heroes of Faith series prior to being notified he was not wanted as a speaker.


The series "Heroes of Faith" will now be presented in Michigan.



As far as I'm concerned Florida is OVERSTEPPING --
They will push there agenda even if it means destroying the ministry of a man that has brought the word of truth to thousands.

If they are ready to take this type of action and accuse Batchlor of speaking against GC policy, EVEN THOUGH the GC voted "no" on giving divisions the right to ordain women, what would they have done if the vote was "yes"?

Would they have -- with vengeance purged the entire ministry of anyone who disagreed?

Now it seems if they are so worried about negative "polarizing influence" on a subject that is by no means a unanimous doctrinal belief of the church, why do they allow all kinds of speakers who disagree with basic doctrines to go about and teach? --- Like allowing evolution believing teachers in our higher education schools to shake the faith in creation in students sent to our schools."



A good indicator of the spirit guiding the Florida leadership is that while Doug Batchelor was not allowed to speak, non-SDA Emergent Church leader and wolf in sheep's clothing, Leonard Sweet was the guest speaker at the Florida Hospital SDA Church retreat in Camp Kulaqua on March 30-April 1, 2012.





"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176413
08/29/15 07:25 PM
08/29/15 07:25 PM
ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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Pastor Batchelor set a wonderful example with his humble and classy response to the Florida Conference's blatant insult. By rescheduling the Heros of the Faith seres in Michigan and continuing to spread the Three Angels' Messages, as in the warning to the church of the Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda video, he has remained faithful to God and refused to be diverted by the wiles of Satan.

The repeated votes and endless debates on Women's Ordination come to mind. How much energy has been wasted that should have been directed into the work God has assigned to us?


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: APL] #176415
08/29/15 08:02 PM
08/29/15 08:02 PM
ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: prodigal
I chose the screen name ProdigalOne because the Father rejoices and forgives those who turn away from the world and return to Him.
So, you have to turn to him or else! What would God do to those that to not turn to him? Get mad, then torture and kill you, right?
Originally Posted By: prodigal
If the sinner does not turn away from sin and does not seek God, then there can be no forgiveness, no salvation, only fearful waiting for the execution of judgement when the anger of God is expressed. It is the sinner's choice: punishment, or salvation.
So, turn to Him or He will execute you. Nice. This is, "Love me, or I'll kill you". What draws us to God? The fear of punishment?
Originally Posted By: prodigal
Whether we choose deliverance or destruction, the Lord is not to blame for our decisions.
So we don't hold God responsible when He tortures sinners.
Originally Posted By: prodigal
{1MR 207.3} quoted
Did Christ hit people with His whip?
Originally Posted By: prodigal
"...when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple".

Does it seem to you that Jesus was "angry" at these people who were desecrating His Father's House? It would appear there are things that make Him "lash out at people"!
Did Christ "lash out at people?" You put this in quotes. Why? Where you quoting something or someone? Christ never hit anyone. What happened right after Christ cleansed the temple? The poor did not flee. The children came to Him. They were not afraid.
Originally Posted By: prodigal
"Jesus is the EXACT representation of what God is like. If you have seen Christ, you have seen the Father."

I agree completely! The quotes above from SOP and John, show that there are times when Jesus; and therefore the Father, is angry with people.
I don't think you understand what really happened. Did Christ ever hit anyone? Did Christ ever kill anyone? No.

I know of only place that EGW speaks of God being angry. And that is NOT as you say, those the write Sunday laws. What situation did EGW write this as this is on topic with this thread.

Originally Posted By: prodigal
God is supremely patient with His children; however, after humanity has for thousands of years, continually shunned His offer of Grace, there comes a time when there is no repentance left in the race, and His patience runs out.
Really. What is God's wrath? What is the "wrath of the lamb?" A lamb is a baby sheep. Are they wrathful? Read Romans 1 where His wrath is clearly defined.

What draws you to God? A fear of punishment?






Here is where my quote about the "lash" came from, you:

"What is God's anger? Is it something that makes Him lash out an people, inflict pain and suffering? No, that is the work of a different power."


I believe your final question sums up your post, so I will answer it.

"What draws you to God? A fear of punishment?"

Fear of punishment would only succeed in repelling me. It is the selfless Love God has poured out upon us that draws me to Him. His just Holy character requires a punishment for sin: "the wages of sin is death". The fact that Jesus paid this price for all who will accept His sacrifice never ceases to amaze me.

What an affront to our Father, that His Son's suffering and pain is (for many) in vain!
If people refuse to accept His mercy, then what choice is left to God? "The wages of sin is death". What would you have God do? If He forces us to accept salvation, we become robots whose love and lives are pointless. If He refuses to punish sin, then He must change His character to one that permits the existence of evil in the coming Kingdom. This would doom the universe to darkness and death.

The only remaining course is to warn, plead, beg His children to forsake sin and return to their Gracious Father.


Can you not hear in the voice of Jesus, how He longs to save us! He does NOT wish to punish the lost, but in the end He will be left no choice...

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not!"

Matthew 23:37


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176416
08/29/15 08:12 PM
08/29/15 08:12 PM
ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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By the way folks, as the OP I have to remind everyone the topic is:

Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video

Are there any thoughts on this subject?

There is a lively discussion on the nature of God's justice on the "Global Warming Farce" thread...


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176417
08/29/15 10:49 PM
08/29/15 10:49 PM
APL  Offline
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Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: prodigal
I chose the screen name ProdigalOne because the Father rejoices and forgives those who turn away from the world and return to Him.
So, you have to turn to him or else! What would God do to those that to not turn to him? Get mad, then torture and kill you, right?
Originally Posted By: prodigal
If the sinner does not turn away from sin and does not seek God, then there can be no forgiveness, no salvation, only fearful waiting for the execution of judgement when the anger of God is expressed. It is the sinner's choice: punishment, or salvation.
So, turn to Him or He will execute you. Nice. This is, "Love me, or I'll kill you". What draws us to God? The fear of punishment?
Originally Posted By: prodigal
Whether we choose deliverance or destruction, the Lord is not to blame for our decisions.
So we don't hold God responsible when He tortures sinners.
Originally Posted By: prodigal
{1MR 207.3} quoted
Did Christ hit people with His whip?
Originally Posted By: prodigal
"...when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple".

Does it seem to you that Jesus was "angry" at these people who were desecrating His Father's House? It would appear there are things that make Him "lash out at people"!
Did Christ "lash out at people?" You put this in quotes. Why? Where you quoting something or someone? Christ never hit anyone. What happened right after Christ cleansed the temple? The poor did not flee. The children came to Him. They were not afraid.
Originally Posted By: prodigal
"Jesus is the EXACT representation of what God is like. If you have seen Christ, you have seen the Father."

I agree completely! The quotes above from SOP and John, show that there are times when Jesus; and therefore the Father, is angry with people.
I don't think you understand what really happened. Did Christ ever hit anyone? Did Christ ever kill anyone? No.

I know of only place that EGW speaks of God being angry. And that is NOT as you say, those the write Sunday laws. What situation did EGW write this as this is on topic with this thread.

Originally Posted By: prodigal
God is supremely patient with His children; however, after humanity has for thousands of years, continually shunned His offer of Grace, there comes a time when there is no repentance left in the race, and His patience runs out.
Really. What is God's wrath? What is the "wrath of the lamb?" A lamb is a baby sheep. Are they wrathful? Read Romans 1 where His wrath is clearly defined.

What draws you to God? A fear of punishment?






Here is where my quote about the "lash" came from, you:

"What is God's anger? Is it something that makes Him lash out an people, inflict pain and suffering? No, that is the work of a different power."


I believe your final question sums up your post, so I will answer it.

"What draws you to God? A fear of punishment?"

Fear of punishment would only succeed in repelling me. It is the selfless Love God has poured out upon us that draws me to Him. His just Holy character requires a punishment for sin: "the wages of sin is death". The fact that Jesus paid this price for all who will accept His sacrifice never ceases to amaze me.

What an affront to our Father, that His Son's suffering and pain is (for many) in vain!
If people refuse to accept His mercy, then what choice is left to God? "The wages of sin is death". What would you have God do? If He forces us to accept salvation, we become robots whose love and lives are pointless. If He refuses to punish sin, then He must change His character to one that permits the existence of evil in the coming Kingdom. This would doom the universe to darkness and death.

The only remaining course is to warn, plead, beg His children to forsake sin and return to their Gracious Father.


Can you not hear in the voice of Jesus, how He longs to save us! He does NOT wish to punish the lost, but in the end He will be left no choice...

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not!"

Matthew 23:37
Just a rehash of love Me, or I'll kill you. How does God "punish?" God is not the executioner. Sin pays it wage, death, not God. If it were not so, then Satan is right, sin will not kill you. God is the harsh, severe creditor. If the chicks don't come home, then will the hen go out an slice off their heads? No.

And as to be on thread, you continue to miss what Ellen White wrote about "God's Anger" and the Sabbath. You say, "God will be VERY angry when the civil and religious authorities unite to legislate Sunday laws." But what is the truth? God is angry with those who pursue a course to make the world hate them. If a Christian is hated because ... he does not take a course to be loved, hated because of his uncultivated manners and because he makes the truth a matter of quarrel with his neighbors, and takes a course to make the Sabbath as annoying as possible to them, he is a stumbling block to sinners, a reproach to the sacred truth, and unless he repents it were better for him that a millstone were hung about his neck and he were cast into the sea. {1T 420.1} That should give you pause to reflect.

God is not the executioner of the sentence against sin. In the end, it if cause and effect.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: APL] #176422
08/30/15 12:53 AM
08/30/15 12:53 AM
dedication  Offline
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It's obvious from the third angel's message that those who follow the "beast" and his "image" in disregarding God's law, including the law that is a sign of worship of the one who created the heavens and the earth and the fountains of water, will suffer the plagues and die.

So let's get back to the topic.

the Pope's Imminent Sunday law Agenda

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176428
08/30/15 02:29 AM
08/30/15 02:29 AM
APL  Offline
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Originally Posted By: dedication
It's obvious from the third angel's message that those who follow the "beast" and his "image" in disregarding God's law, including the law that is a sign of worship of the one who created the heavens and the earth and the fountains of water, will suffer the plagues and die.

So let's get back to the topic.

the Pope's Imminent Sunday law Agenda


Define "imminent". Perhaps you also missed the quote from 1T.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176429
08/30/15 02:30 AM
08/30/15 02:30 AM
dedication  Offline
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Ten years ago people on the various forums would mock anyone suggesting there would ever be a Sunday law.

Now that the progressive steps are being taken to implement it people suggest it is "rude" to talk about it????

Indeed the Sunday laws are coming, the steps toward it are increasing --

Here is a list of events showing the steady march of Sunday.

Towards Global Sunday Law

Don't wait for the final enforcement of Sunday laws to believe.
We NEED to have a DAILY relationship with Jesus Christ NOW in order to get through the time of trouble that is coming.

It is only those who by faith have hid themselves in Christ, trusting, believing, following the Lamb of God in faith and obedience, who will escape the last plagues and eternal death.


Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: dedication] #176432
08/30/15 03:02 AM
08/30/15 03:02 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: dedication
Ten years ago people on the various forums would mock anyone suggesting there would ever be a Sunday law.

Now that the progressive steps are being taken to implement it people suggest it is "rude" to talk about it????

Indeed the Sunday laws are coming, the steps toward it are increasing --

Here is a list of events showing the steady march of Sunday.

Towards Global Sunday Law

Don't wait for the final enforcement of Sunday laws to believe.
We NEED to have a DAILY relationship with Jesus Christ NOW in order to get through the time of trouble that is coming.

It is only those who by faith have hid themselves in Christ, trusting, believing, following the Lamb of God in faith and obedience, who will escape the last plagues and eternal death.



Excellent link! I think my favorite on the list is May 24 2014:

"Pope Francis described as "dangerous" the temptation to believe that one can have "a personal, direct, immediate relationship with Jesus Christ without communion with and the mediation of the church."

A "personal" relationship with Jesus "dangerous"! Yes, to the Antichrist Pope who would no longer be able to slither into the role of Intercessor!

Of course "communion" would necessarily include worshipping together on the same day!


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: APL] #176434
08/30/15 03:15 AM
08/30/15 03:15 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: prodigal
I chose the screen name ProdigalOne because the Father rejoices and forgives those who turn away from the world and return to Him.
So, you have to turn to him or else! What would God do to those that to not turn to him? Get mad, then torture and kill you, right?
Originally Posted By: prodigal
If the sinner does not turn away from sin and does not seek God, then there can be no forgiveness, no salvation, only fearful waiting for the execution of judgement when the anger of God is expressed. It is the sinner's choice: punishment, or salvation.
So, turn to Him or He will execute you. Nice. This is, "Love me, or I'll kill you". What draws us to God? The fear of punishment?
Originally Posted By: prodigal
Whether we choose deliverance or destruction, the Lord is not to blame for our decisions.
So we don't hold God responsible when He tortures sinners.
Originally Posted By: prodigal
{1MR 207.3} quoted
Did Christ hit people with His whip?
Originally Posted By: prodigal
"...when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple".

Does it seem to you that Jesus was "angry" at these people who were desecrating His Father's House? It would appear there are things that make Him "lash out at people"!
Did Christ "lash out at people?" You put this in quotes. Why? Where you quoting something or someone? Christ never hit anyone. What happened right after Christ cleansed the temple? The poor did not flee. The children came to Him. They were not afraid.
Originally Posted By: prodigal
"Jesus is the EXACT representation of what God is like. If you have seen Christ, you have seen the Father."

I agree completely! The quotes above from SOP and John, show that there are times when Jesus; and therefore the Father, is angry with people.
I don't think you understand what really happened. Did Christ ever hit anyone? Did Christ ever kill anyone? No.

I know of only place that EGW speaks of God being angry. And that is NOT as you say, those the write Sunday laws. What situation did EGW write this as this is on topic with this thread.

Originally Posted By: prodigal
God is supremely patient with His children; however, after humanity has for thousands of years, continually shunned His offer of Grace, there comes a time when there is no repentance left in the race, and His patience runs out.
Really. What is God's wrath? What is the "wrath of the lamb?" A lamb is a baby sheep. Are they wrathful? Read Romans 1 where His wrath is clearly defined.

What draws you to God? A fear of punishment?






Here is where my quote about the "lash" came from, you:

"What is God's anger? Is it something that makes Him lash out an people, inflict pain and suffering? No, that is the work of a different power."


I believe your final question sums up your post, so I will answer it.

"What draws you to God? A fear of punishment?"

Fear of punishment would only succeed in repelling me. It is the selfless Love God has poured out upon us that draws me to Him. His just Holy character requires a punishment for sin: "the wages of sin is death". The fact that Jesus paid this price for all who will accept His sacrifice never ceases to amaze me.

What an affront to our Father, that His Son's suffering and pain is (for many) in vain!
If people refuse to accept His mercy, then what choice is left to God? "The wages of sin is death". What would you have God do? If He forces us to accept salvation, we become robots whose love and lives are pointless. If He refuses to punish sin, then He must change His character to one that permits the existence of evil in the coming Kingdom. This would doom the universe to darkness and death.

The only remaining course is to warn, plead, beg His children to forsake sin and return to their Gracious Father.


Can you not hear in the voice of Jesus, how He longs to save us! He does NOT wish to punish the lost, but in the end He will be left no choice...

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not!"

Matthew 23:37
Just a rehash of love Me, or I'll kill you. How does God "punish?" God is not the executioner. Sin pays it wage, death, not God. If it were not so, then Satan is right, sin will not kill you. God is the harsh, severe creditor. If the chicks don't come home, then will the hen go out an slice off their heads? No.

And as to be on thread, you continue to miss what Ellen White wrote about "God's Anger" and the Sabbath. You say, "God will be VERY angry when the civil and religious authorities unite to legislate Sunday laws." But what is the truth? God is angry with those who pursue a course to make the world hate them. If a Christian is hated because ... he does not take a course to be loved, hated because of his uncultivated manners and because he makes the truth a matter of quarrel with his neighbors, and takes a course to make the Sabbath as annoying as possible to them, he is a stumbling block to sinners, a reproach to the sacred truth, and unless he repents it were better for him that a millstone were hung about his neck and he were cast into the sea. {1T 420.1} That should give you pause to reflect.

God is not the executioner of the sentence against sin. In the end, it if cause and effect.




APL, I'm tired of having the same conversation over and over. If you want to believe that God is a pushover, who will be forever patient and never execute the judgement He has been warning us of, that we will not reap what we sow, that the mechanics of punishment are all that matters and not the fact of punishment, then go ahead. I can see there is no changing your mind and further discussion is a waste of precious time and energy.

I wish nothing but good for you!



"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: James Peterson] #176435
08/30/15 03:17 AM
08/30/15 03:17 AM
Daryl  Offline

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Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
Mr. James Peterson, or is it Father James Peterson? I have been reading through some of your posts on other threads. It is painfully obvious, you are not a Seventh Day Adventist and you are a "friend" to Seventh Day Adventists in much the same way as a wolf is a "friend" to sheep! You are fully aware of the denominational affiliation and Fundamental Beliefs of the majority of members on this site. Why don't you fill us in on your denomination and beliefs? Remember: "The Truth shall set you free.".

I am an SDA. But SDA have a great many false doctrines. I only wish to correct those false ideas. One of those false beliefs is that God is VERY angry because some people are worshiping Him on Sundays instead of Saturdays. "The truth will set you free" indeed.

///

Your profile states that you are not a member of the SDA church.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176436
08/30/15 03:29 AM
08/30/15 03:29 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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APL said:

"And as to be on thread, you continue to miss what Ellen White wrote about "God's Anger" and the Sabbath. You say, "God will be VERY angry when the civil and religious authorities unite to legislate Sunday laws." But what is the truth? God is angry with those who pursue a course to make the world hate them. If a Christian is hated because ... he does not take a course to be loved, hated because of his uncultivated manners and because he makes the truth a matter of quarrel with his neighbors, and takes a course to make the Sabbath as annoying as possible to them, he is a stumbling block to sinners, a reproach to the sacred truth, and unless he repents it were better for him that a millstone were hung about his neck and he were cast into the sea. {1T 420.1} That should give you pause to reflect."



So what are you saying APL? It is thoughtless and unneighborly to proclaim the Three Angels' Messages?

Don't you think Sister White meant that we should be gentle, loving, and wise in our witnessing?

Where did you learn to interpret the Spirit of Prophesy, at a Jesuit university??


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176437
08/30/15 04:18 AM
08/30/15 04:18 AM
dedication  Offline
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imminent == about to happen, near at hand.

Imminent implies - don't put your head in the sand thinking it's a long way off.

Now is the time to speak up and warn against the trend back to Rome -- before it is too late and the freedom of speech and worship is taken away.

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176439
08/30/15 05:39 AM
08/30/15 05:39 AM
dedication  Offline
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1st quote: "God will be VERY angry when the civil and religious authorities unite to legislate Sunday laws."

Quote reinterpreted to say: "God is VERY angry because some people are worshiping Him on Sundays instead of Saturdays"

Those two statements aren't even remotely the same. God is not VERY angry because some people are worshipping Him on Sunday. In fact there will be many people in heaven who honestly kept Sunday, thinking it was the right day.

There is a whole different issue involved here.

What is it that calls forth God's wrath as described in the third angel's message?

It is a well planned, thorough, painstakingly carried out infiltration occurring over many decades now, which will result in "an overwhelming surprise" takeover of most of the world by a system that elevates itself into God's place, pretending to be God, setting itself above God's law and authority, changing God's law, and then using civil armies to impose these changed laws on the people. It presents itself as a "savior" bringing peace, when in reality plunging the world into a regime more sinister than any the planet has ever seen.

Through staged chaos, as well as other chaos, they manipulate people into subjection by appealing to their fears and superstition, and by using force and coercion. They will rob those who resist of all the necessities of life, and even life itself-- all the while pretending to be doing God's work!

The devil himself inspires the whole thing in outright, in the face, rebellion against God. He wants the worship due God, so he's set up a counterfeit worship system, and he promises those who do his bidding that they will be as gods.
Sunday has long been an important day in counterfeit worship, while Saturday is linked to creation, and we worship our Creator on that day.
Sunday will be a very prominent link that will link Protestant America to the Catholic system.

Quote:
And let it be remembered, it is the boast of Rome that she never changes. The principles of Gregory VII and Innocent III are still the principles of the Roman Catholic Church. And had she but the power, she would put them in practice with as much vigor now as in past centuries. Protestants little know what they are doing when they propose to accept the aid of Rome in the work of Sunday exaltation. While they are bent upon the accomplishment of their purpose, Rome is aiming to re-establish her power, to recover her lost supremacy. Let the principle once be established in the United States that the church may employ or control the power of the state; that religious observances may be enforced by secular laws; in short, that the authority of church and state is to dominate the conscience, and the triumph of Rome in this country is assured. {GC 581.1}
God's word has given warning of the impending danger; let this be unheeded, and the Protestant world will learn what the purposes of Rome really are, only when it is too late to escape the snare. She is silently growing into power. Her doctrines are exerting their influence in legislative halls, in the churches, and in the hearts of men. She is piling up her lofty and massive structures in the secret recesses of which her former persecutions will be repeated. Stealthily and unsuspectedly she is strengthening her forces to further her own ends when the time shall come for her to strike. All that she desires is vantage ground, and this is already being given her. We shall soon see and shall feel what the purpose of the Roman element is. Whoever shall believe and obey the word of God will thereby incur reproach and persecution. {GC 581.2}


The choice will be -- worship and give your allegiance to the system by obeying it's command concerning worship, or worship and obey the One Who created the heavens and the earth and everything therein.

When this deceptive, counterfeit worship system ruthlessly starts stamping out all opposition -- with special hate hurled against God's loyal people, yes -- God will tear away their pious front, vindicate His law and deliver His people.

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176441
08/30/15 06:24 AM
08/30/15 06:24 AM
APL  Offline
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Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
So what are you saying APL? It is thoughtless and unneighborly to proclaim the Three Angels' Messages?

Don't you think Sister White meant that we should be gentle, loving, and wise in our witnessing?

Where did you learn to interpret the Spirit of Prophesy, at a Jesuit university??
The 3AM is misrepresented as saying God will inflict pain and suffering when God will do no such thing. It is Satan's who wants us to view God with his (Satan's) character. Sin is an evil thing, not God. The judgments of God do not come out from Him. He is not the executioner. If you believe otherwise, then the Jesuits have fooled you.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176444
08/30/15 06:34 AM
08/30/15 06:34 AM
APL  Offline
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Originally Posted By: prodigal

APL, I'm tired of having the same conversation over and over. If you want to believe that God is a pushover, who will be forever patient and never execute the judgement He has been warning us of, that we will not reap what we sow, that the mechanics of punishment are all that matters and not the fact of punishment, then go ahead. I can see there is no changing your mind and further discussion is a waste of precious time and energy.
Then stop, I have not problem with YOU stopping. Have I ever said God is a pushover? Nope. But God is also not a murderer. The 10C are a transcript of His character. Reaping what you sow does not mean that it is God executing you. Sin pays its wage, death. God is NOT the executioner. Read Great Controversy pages 35-37. Did Jerusalem suffer punishment for sin? You bet! Was God the executioner? Nope.

Originally Posted By: prodigal
I wish nothing but good for you!
Then don't reject the truth, it is hard to see people not see God for what he really is. It causes me grief.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: dedication] #176448
08/30/15 11:18 AM
08/30/15 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted By: dedication
1st quote: "God will be VERY angry when the civil and religious authorities unite to legislate Sunday laws." Quote reinterpreted to say: "God is VERY angry because some people are worshiping Him on Sundays instead of Saturdays" Those two statements aren't even remotely the same. God is not VERY angry because some people are worshipping Him on Sunday. In fact there will be many people in heaven who honestly kept Sunday, thinking it was the right day. There is a whole different issue involved here. What is it that calls forth God's wrath as described in the third angel's message?

It is a well planned, thorough, painstakingly carried out infiltration occurring over many decades now, which will result in "an overwhelming surprise" takeover of most of the world by a system that elevates itself into God's place, pretending to be God, setting itself above God's law and authority, changing God's law, and then using civil armies to impose these changed laws on the people. It presents itself as a "savior" bringing peace, when in reality plunging the world into a regime more sinister than any the planet has ever seen. Through staged chaos, as well as other chaos, they manipulate people into subjection by appealing to their fears and superstition, and by using force and coercion. They will rob those who resist of all the necessities of life, and even life itself-- all the while pretending to be doing God's work!

The devil himself inspires the whole thing in outright, in the face, rebellion against God. He wants the worship due God, so he's set up a counterfeit worship system, and he promises those who do his bidding that they will be as gods. Sunday has long been an important day in counterfeit worship, while Saturday is linked to creation, and we worship our Creator on that day. Sunday will be a very prominent link that will link Protestant America to the Catholic system.

Quote:
And let it be remembered, it is the boast of Rome that she never changes. The principles of Gregory VII and Innocent III are still the principles of the Roman Catholic Church. And had she but the power, she would put them in practice with as much vigor now as in past centuries. Protestants little know what they are doing when they propose to accept the aid of Rome in the work of Sunday exaltation. While they are bent upon the accomplishment of their purpose, Rome is aiming to re-establish her power, to recover her lost supremacy. Let the principle once be established in the United States that the church may employ or control the power of the state; that religious observances may be enforced by secular laws; in short, that the authority of church and state is to dominate the conscience, and the triumph of Rome in this country is assured. {GC 581.1} God's word has given warning of the impending danger; let this be unheeded, and the Protestant world will learn what the purposes of Rome really are, only when it is too late to escape the snare. She is silently growing into power. Her doctrines are exerting their influence in legislative halls, in the churches, and in the hearts of men. She is piling up her lofty and massive structures in the secret recesses of which her former persecutions will be repeated. Stealthily and unsuspectedly she is strengthening her forces to further her own ends when the time shall come for her to strike. All that she desires is vantage ground, and this is already being given her. We shall soon see and shall feel what the purpose of the Roman element is. Whoever shall believe and obey the word of God will thereby incur reproach and persecution. {GC 581.2}


The choice will be -- worship and give your allegiance to the system by obeying it's command concerning worship, or worship and obey the One Who created the heavens and the earth and everything therein. When this deceptive, counterfeit worship system ruthlessly starts stamping out all opposition -- with special hate hurled against God's loyal people, yes -- God will tear away their pious front, vindicate His law and deliver His people.

First, you don't quote from the Bible at all. Secondly, from the Bible, we see that God was VERY angry with the Jews. Legally, they were very strict about the Sabbath. Are you saying then that God hates BOTH those who love worshiping Him on Saturday AND those who do on Sunday?

///

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: APL] #176450
08/30/15 01:19 PM
08/30/15 01:19 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Originally Posted By: APL
The 3AM is misrepresented as saying God will inflict pain and suffering when God will do no such thing. It is Satan's who wants us to view God with his (Satan's) character. Sin is an evil thing, not God. The judgments of God do not come out from Him. He is not the executioner. If you believe otherwise, then the Jesuits have fooled you.


Have you read the third angel's message recently? It is found in Revelation 14:9-12. These verses are IMPORTANT.

Originally Posted By: God's Holy Word
14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.


The text does NOT say people will be tormented by Satan. It tells me that they will suffer the wrath "of God." God has wrath. It is reserved for that final punishment of sin and sinners, including Satan himself. Satan will not be wrathful against himself and wish to destroy himself. No, no. Satan will be trying to war against God, of a natural desire toward self-preservation. God, however, will win the battle.

Praise God! And tell the world the truth!

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: James Peterson] #176452
08/30/15 02:01 PM
08/30/15 02:01 PM
dedication  Offline
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Diverting and building a strawman --

Originally Posted By: dedication
The original quote read:
"God will be VERY angry when the civil and religious authorities unite to legislate Sunday laws."

James Peterson restated the quote pretending it said:
"God is VERY angry because some people are worshiping Him on Sundays instead of Saturdays"


Those two statements aren't even remotely the same. God is not VERY angry because some people are worshipping Him on Sunday. In fact there will be many people in heaven who honestly kept Sunday, thinking it was the right day.


Bringing the argument to the real problem


Originally Posted By: dedication

There is a whole different issue involved here. What is it that calls forth God's wrath as described in the third angel's message?

It is a well planned, thorough, painstakingly carried out infiltration occurring over many decades now, which will result in "an overwhelming surprise" takeover of most of the world by a system that elevates itself into God's place, pretending to be God, setting itself above God's law and authority, changing God's law, and then using civil armies to impose these changed laws on the people. It presents itself as a "savior" bringing peace, when in reality plunging the world into a regime more sinister than any the planet has ever seen. Through staged chaos, as well as other chaos, they manipulate people into subjection by appealing to their fears and superstition, and by using force and coercion. They will rob those who resist of all the necessities of life, and even life itself-- all the while pretending to be doing God's work!

The devil himself inspires the whole thing in outright, in the face, rebellion against God. He wants the worship due God, so he's set up a counterfeit worship system, and he promises those who do his bidding that they will be as gods. Sunday has long been an important day in counterfeit worship, while Saturday is linked to creation, and we worship our Creator on that day. Sunday will be a very prominent link that will link Protestant America to the Catholic system.

Quote:
And let it be remembered, it is the boast of Rome that she never changes. The principles of Gregory VII and Innocent III are still the principles of the Roman Catholic Church. And had she but the power, she would put them in practice with as much vigor now as in past centuries. Protestants little know what they are doing when they propose to accept the aid of Rome in the work of Sunday exaltation. While they are bent upon the accomplishment of their purpose, Rome is aiming to re-establish her power, to recover her lost supremacy. Let the principle once be established in the United States that the church may employ or control the power of the state; that religious observances may be enforced by secular laws; in short, that the authority of church and state is to dominate the conscience, and the triumph of Rome in this country is assured. {GC 581.1} God's word has given warning of the impending danger; let this be unheeded, and the Protestant world will learn what the purposes of Rome really are, only when it is too late to escape the snare. She is silently growing into power. Her doctrines are exerting their influence in legislative halls, in the churches, and in the hearts of men. She is piling up her lofty and massive structures in the secret recesses of which her former persecutions will be repeated. Stealthily and unsuspectedly she is strengthening her forces to further her own ends when the time shall come for her to strike. All that she desires is vantage ground, and this is already being given her. We shall soon see and shall feel what the purpose of the Roman element is. Whoever shall believe and obey the word of God will thereby incur reproach and persecution. {GC 581.2}


The choice will be -- worship and give your allegiance to the system by obeying it's command concerning worship, or worship and obey the One Who created the heavens and the earth and everything therein. When this deceptive, counterfeit worship system ruthlessly starts stamping out all opposition -- with special hate hurled against God's loyal people, yes -- God will tear away their pious front, vindicate His law and deliver His people.


James Peterson ignores the context and builds further on his straw man version

Originally Posted By: James Peterson

First, you don't quote from the Bible at all. Secondly, from the Bible, we see that God was VERY angry with the Jews. Legally, they were very strict about the Sabbath. Are you saying then that God hates BOTH those who love worshiping Him on Saturday AND those who do on Sunday?



So one can see he totally failed to address the argument or the issue presented, only reverted back to his own straw man quote which he built into a larger straw man quote. And shot some more at his own enlarged straw man statement which he himself constructed.

The Biblical passages addressing this persecuting system under discussion, that will FORCE and PERSECUTE God's commandment keeping people who worship "Him who made heaven and earth" is found in Revelation 12:17, Revelation 13 and Revelation 14.

Read it for yourself.

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176453
08/30/15 02:16 PM
08/30/15 02:16 PM
dedication  Offline
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Too bad this thread has turned into another "does God do it or is it the revelation of what sin does.

Personally, I believe MOST of the terrible end time happenings will be showing the terrible results that happen when God's laws are rejected and evil is totally unrestrained.
God's Holy Spirit is fully withdrawn from the earth and evil is allowed to fully manifest itself, and the result is UTTER RUIN, all the "peace and love" promised by the system is seen to result in only terror and hate and ruthless persecution.

Yet, God is still with HIS loyal people, and HE will deliver them with His own awesome intervention. The earth is not allowed to destroy itself with God's people on it. God DELIVERS HIS PEOPLE with His own manifestation of power and vindication of His law, which brings all the evil (which would only have prolonged the utter misery) to a sudden and very decisive end

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176458
08/30/15 03:17 PM
08/30/15 03:17 PM
APL  Offline
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Originally Posted By: green
The text does NOT say people will be tormented by Satan. It tells me that they will suffer the wrath "of God." God has wrath. It is reserved for that final punishment of sin and sinners, including Satan himself. Satan will not be wrathful against himself and wish to destroy himself. No, no. Satan will be trying to war against God, of a natural desire toward self-preservation. God, however, will win the battle.
What is God's wrath? It has been revealed - Read Romans 1. Christ suffered the wrath of God.

Read what EGW writes in ST April 14, 1898 Christ and the Law. If we do not understand what happens with violation of the law, we won't understand the consequences of the Sunday Law.

The wrath of God fell upon Christ. This was the hiding of the Father's countenance. {ST, April 14, 1898 par. 9}

And the hearts of all who seek the Lord and find Him will be broken as they see the result of sin. {ST, April 14, 1898 par. 10} What the "result of sin" God torturing His Son? No. Christ demonstrated the results of sin, death, not execution by God.

We read of chains of darkness for the transgressor of God's law. We read of the worm that dieth not, and of the fire that is not quenched. Thus is represented the experience of every one who has permitted himself to be grafted into the stock of Satan, who has cherished sinful attributes. When it is too late, he will see that sin is the transgression of God's law. He will realize that because of transgression, his soul is cut off from God, and that God's wrath abides on him. This is a fire unquenchable, and by it every unrepentant sinner will be destroyed. {ST, April 14, 1898 par. 13} Do you hear the Three Angel's Message in there? What is the unquenchable fire? Torture by God? No. The unrepentant sinner will be destroyed "by it". Sin and its results. Read the whole article Green.

In Desire of Ages, EGW writes about the "inevitable results of sin". This is a prime issue in the Great Controversy.

At the beginning of the great controversy, the angels did not understand this. Had Satan and his host then been left to reap the full result of their sin, they would have perished; but it would not have been apparent to heavenly beings that this was the inevitable result of sin. A doubt of God's goodness would have remained in their minds as evil seed, to produce its deadly fruit of sin and woe. {DA 764.2}


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176459
08/30/15 03:38 PM
08/30/15 03:38 PM
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Is the SDA Church ready to meet the Sunday Law Crisis? Will Jesus allow the crisis to play out if the SDA Church is not ready? Is the SDA Church more ready now than ever before? Or, is it more mess up now than ever before?

Is the World ready for the Sunday Law Crisis? Is it more ready than ever before?

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176460
08/30/15 03:48 PM
08/30/15 03:48 PM
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APL, have you earned the right to preach your view of justice and punishment? You believe Jesus withdraws His protection and permits evil men and evil angels to torture and kill innocent women and children. You insist all the passages which describe Jesus causing or commanding death, disease, and destruction must be interpreted to mean He withdraws His protection and permits evil men and evil angels to do it. So, as soon as Jesus feels death, disease, and destruction are in order - He turns it over to evil men and evil angels to fill the order. Why do you think this makes Jesus look good and makes evil men and evil angels look bad? Why does this make sense to you?

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: Mountain Man] #176468
08/30/15 04:49 PM
08/30/15 04:49 PM
APL  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
APL, have you earned the right to preach your view of justice and punishment? You believe Jesus withdraws His protection and permits evil men and evil angels to torture and kill innocent women and children. You insist all the passages which describe Jesus causing or commanding death, disease, and destruction must be interpreted to mean He withdraws His protection and permits evil men and evil angels to do it. So, as soon as Jesus feels death, disease, and destruction are in order - He turns it over to evil men and evil angels to fill the order. Why do you think this makes Jesus look good and makes evil men and evil angels look bad? Why does this make sense to you?
mm - have you earned the right to reject truth?

Men will surely set up their laws to counterwork the laws of God. They will seek to compel the consciences of others, and in their zeal to enforce these laws they will oppress their fellow men. {DA 763.2}

The warfare against God's law, which was begun in heaven, will be continued until the end of time. Every man will be tested. Obedience or disobedience is the question to be decided by the whole world. All will be called to choose between the law of God and the laws of men. Here the dividing line will be drawn. There will be but two classes. Every character will be fully developed; and all will show whether they have chosen the side of loyalty or that of rebellion.
{DA 763.3}

Then the end will come. God will vindicate His law and deliver His people. Satan and all who have joined him in rebellion will be cut off. Sin and sinners will perish, root and branch, (
Malachi 4:1),--Satan the root, and his followers the branches. The word will be fulfilled to the prince of evil, "Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God; . . . I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. . . . Thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more." Then "the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be;" "they shall be as though they had not been." Ezekiel 28:6-19; Psalm 37:10; Obadiah 16. {DA 763.4}

This is not an act of arbitrary power on the part of God. The rejecters of His mercy reap that which they have sown. God is the fountain of life; and when one chooses the service of sin, he separates from God, and thus cuts himself off from life. He is "alienated from the life of God." Christ says, "All they that hate Me love death."
Ephesians 4:18; Proverbs 8:36. God gives them existence for a time that they may develop their character and reveal their principles. This accomplished, they receive the results of their own choice. By a life of rebellion, Satan and all who unite with him place themselves so out of harmony with God that His very presence is to them a consuming fire. The glory of Him who is love will destroy them. {DA 764.1}

At the beginning of the great controversy, the angels did not understand this. Had Satan and his host then been left to reap the full result of their sin, they would have perished; but it would not have been apparent to heavenly beings that this was the inevitable result of sin. A doubt of God's goodness would have remained in their minds as evil seed, to produce its deadly fruit of sin and woe.
{DA 764.2}

But not so when the great controversy shall be ended. Then, the plan of redemption having been completed, the character of God is revealed to all created intelligences. The precepts of His law are seen to be perfect and immutable. Then sin has made manifest its nature, Satan his character. Then the extermination of sin will vindicate God's love and establish His honor before a universe of beings who delight to do His will, and in whose heart is His law.
{DA 764.3}


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: dedication] #176469
08/30/15 05:53 PM
08/30/15 05:53 PM
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James Peterson  Offline
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Originally Posted By: dedication
Diverting and building a strawman. The original quote read: "God will be VERY angry when the civil and religious authorities unite to legislate Sunday laws." James Peterson restated the quote pretending it said: "God is VERY angry because some people are worshiping Him on Sundays instead of Saturdays". Those two statements aren't even remotely the same. God is not VERY angry because some people are worshipping Him on Sunday. In fact there will be many people in heaven who honestly kept Sunday, thinking it was the right day.

James Peterson ignores the context and builds further on his straw man version, [saying,] "First, you don't quote from the Bible at all. Secondly, from the Bible, we see that God was VERY angry with the Jews. Legally, they were very strict about the Sabbath. Are you saying then that God hates BOTH those who love worshiping Him on Saturday AND those who do on Sunday?" So one can see he totally failed to address the argument or the issue presented, only reverted back to his own straw man quote which he built into a larger straw man quote. And shot some more at his own enlarged straw man statement which he himself constructed.

The Biblical passages addressing this persecuting system under discussion, that will FORCE and PERSECUTE God's commandment keeping people who worship "Him who made heaven and earth" is found in Revelation 12:17, Revelation 13 and Revelation 14. Read it for yourself.

First of all, you misinterpret Rev. 12-14. It is not about worshiping God on a day, either Saturday OR Sunday. Rather it is about worshiping God OR not. Secondly, the ire of Jesus was against the arm-in-arm civil and religious authorities of the Jews legislating rest on the Sabbath, judging according to the letter of the law. In the same vein, God is VERY angry with SDA who harbour ill against their brethren merely because they worship just a day later. Paul said, "every day is holy unto the LORD".

///

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176471
08/31/15 12:20 AM
08/31/15 12:20 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Please do your job. Forum rules are being blatantly broken.

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: APL] #176472
08/31/15 12:31 AM
08/31/15 12:31 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Originally Posted By: APL
M: APL, have you earned the right to preach your view of justice and punishment? You believe Jesus withdraws His protection and permits evil men and evil angels to torture and kill innocent women and children. You insist all the passages which describe Jesus causing or commanding death, disease, and destruction must be interpreted to mean He withdraws His protection and permits evil men and evil angels to do it. So, as soon as Jesus feels death, disease, and destruction are in order - He turns it over to evil men and evil angels to fill the order. Why do you think this makes Jesus look good and makes evil men and evil angels look bad? Why does this make sense to you?

A: [Various quotes posted].

I take it you expect me to deduce your answers to my questions based on the quotes you posted. If so, here's what I hear you saying (in red):

1. You believe Jesus withdraws His protection and permits evil men and evil angels to torture and kill innocent women and children. Yes, that is precisely what I believe. It is clearly taught in the Bible and in the SOP.

2. You insist all the passages which describe Jesus causing or commanding death, disease, and destruction must be interpreted to mean He withdraws His protection and permits evil men and evil angels to do it. Yes, that is exactly what I insist because it is precisely what is taught in the Bible and in the SOP.

3. So, as soon as Jesus feels death, disease, and destruction are in order - He turns it over to evil men and evil angels to fill the order. Absolutely. What a doubt. Well said.

4. Why do you think this makes Jesus look good and makes evil men and evil angels look bad? Why does this make sense to you? Jesus is love, therefore, He cannot cause or command anyone to do something that isn't loving. Consequently, He must rely on evil men and evil angels to do what He will not do. Jesus is fortunate evil men and evil angels are willing to cause death, disease, and destruction when permitting it best suits the Great Controversy.

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: Mountain Man] #176473
08/31/15 01:03 AM
08/31/15 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Is the SDA Church ready to meet the Sunday Law Crisis? Will Jesus allow the crisis to play out if the SDA Church is not ready? Is the SDA Church more ready now than ever before? Or, is it more mess up now than ever before? Is the World ready for the Sunday Law Crisis? Is it more ready than ever before?

SDA have reached the erroneous conclusion that Rev. 12:17, "the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the [remnant] of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ", refers to them and their plight for worshiping God on Saturdays some time soon. BUT it says the dragon went to make war with the [remnant] of the woman's offspring. HE WENT TO MAKE WAR. It does not say, he was going to make war (as in the future), but went to make war. He let the woman go and WENT to make war against the [remnant] of her children. Therefore, while the woman was in the wilderness for 1,260 days, he was wreaking havoc among the [remnant] of her offspring DURING THE SAME PERIOD OF TIME. SDA have therefore become false prophets by twisting the meaning of the spirit of prophecy, i.e. The Revelation of Jesus Christ.

It is now interesting that when they are corrected, they get hot under the collar and seek to silence those who speak the truth.

///

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: dedication] #176474
08/31/15 01:32 AM
08/31/15 01:32 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: dedication
1st quote: "God will be VERY angry when the civil and religious authorities unite to legislate Sunday laws."

Quote reinterpreted to say: "God is VERY angry because some people are worshiping Him on Sundays instead of Saturdays"

Those two statements aren't even remotely the same. God is not VERY angry because some people are worshipping Him on Sunday. In fact there will be many people in heaven who honestly kept Sunday, thinking it was the right day.

There is a whole different issue involved here.

What is it that calls forth God's wrath as described in the third angel's message?

It is a well planned, thorough, painstakingly carried out infiltration occurring over many decades now, which will result in "an overwhelming surprise" takeover of most of the world by a system that elevates itself into God's place, pretending to be God, setting itself above God's law and authority, changing God's law, and then using civil armies to impose these changed laws on the people. It presents itself as a "savior" bringing peace, when in reality plunging the world into a regime more sinister than any the planet has ever seen.

Through staged chaos, as well as other chaos, they manipulate people into subjection by appealing to their fears and superstition, and by using force and coercion. They will rob those who resist of all the necessities of life, and even life itself-- all the while pretending to be doing God's work!

The devil himself inspires the whole thing in outright, in the face, rebellion against God. He wants the worship due God, so he's set up a counterfeit worship system, and he promises those who do his bidding that they will be as gods.
Sunday has long been an important day in counterfeit worship, while Saturday is linked to creation, and we worship our Creator on that day.
Sunday will be a very prominent link that will link Protestant America to the Catholic system.

Quote:
And let it be remembered, it is the boast of Rome that she never changes. The principles of Gregory VII and Innocent III are still the principles of the Roman Catholic Church. And had she but the power, she would put them in practice with as much vigor now as in past centuries. Protestants little know what they are doing when they propose to accept the aid of Rome in the work of Sunday exaltation. While they are bent upon the accomplishment of their purpose, Rome is aiming to re-establish her power, to recover her lost supremacy. Let the principle once be established in the United States that the church may employ or control the power of the state; that religious observances may be enforced by secular laws; in short, that the authority of church and state is to dominate the conscience, and the triumph of Rome in this country is assured. {GC 581.1}
God's word has given warning of the impending danger; let this be unheeded, and the Protestant world will learn what the purposes of Rome really are, only when it is too late to escape the snare. She is silently growing into power. Her doctrines are exerting their influence in legislative halls, in the churches, and in the hearts of men. She is piling up her lofty and massive structures in the secret recesses of which her former persecutions will be repeated. Stealthily and unsuspectedly she is strengthening her forces to further her own ends when the time shall come for her to strike. All that she desires is vantage ground, and this is already being given her. We shall soon see and shall feel what the purpose of the Roman element is. Whoever shall believe and obey the word of God will thereby incur reproach and persecution. {GC 581.2}


The choice will be -- worship and give your allegiance to the system by obeying it's command concerning worship, or worship and obey the One Who created the heavens and the earth and everything therein.

When this deceptive, counterfeit worship system ruthlessly starts stamping out all opposition -- with special hate hurled against God's loyal people, yes -- God will tear away their pious front, vindicate His law and deliver His people.





Amen, dedication! Well said!


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: dedication] #176475
08/31/15 01:59 AM
08/31/15 01:59 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: dedication
Too bad this thread has turned into another "does God do it or is it the revelation of what sin does.

Personally, I believe MOST of the terrible end time happenings will be showing the terrible results that happen when God's laws are rejected and evil is totally unrestrained.
God's Holy Spirit is fully withdrawn from the earth and evil is allowed to fully manifest itself, and the result is UTTER RUIN, all the "peace and love" promised by the system is seen to result in only terror and hate and ruthless persecution.

Yet, God is still with HIS loyal people, and HE will deliver them with His own awesome intervention. The earth is not allowed to destroy itself with God's people on it. God DELIVERS HIS PEOPLE with His own manifestation of power and vindication of His law, which brings all the evil (which would only have prolonged the utter misery) to a sudden and very decisive end


I agree, it is a combination of God's wrath, Satan's unleashed wickedness, and the fruit of unrestrained sin.
I also agree that this thread is being redirected to a topic that is already being discussed on another thread: "Global Warming Farce".


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176477
08/31/15 03:12 AM
08/31/15 03:12 AM
dedication  Offline
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Quote:
it says the dragon went to make war with the [remnant] of the woman's offspring. HE WENT TO MAKE WAR. It does not say, he was going to make war (as in the future), but went to make war


The idea that this war is completely in the PAST and does not project to the future, completely ignores the whole context of the message of Rev. 12:17 and onward through to 19.
The "remnant" implies the last part -- and offspring or children, usually arrive on the scene later than the woman.


That said -- it's also very true that the war has been waging quite fiercely against those who didn't follow the papal lead to reject the seventh day and substitute the first in it's place --
It was waged with much persecution during the 1260 years.

Surprising we see this war even right here on this forum -- the Sabbath has always been a special target of attack by Satan, and we see it right here on an ADVENTIST forum none the less.

Why is Satan so angry against God's law and the Sabbath in particular? Because true Sabbath keeping is the climax of worship of the Creator God -- the One Who Created us (Exo. 20:11), who sanctifies us (Eze 20:12), and is a sign that we acknowledge Him as God. (Eze 20:20)

BUT NOTE -- the war is AGAINST those who 1) keep God's commandments and 2) have the faith and testimony of Jesus. (Rev. 12:17 and Rev 14:12)

Satan's strategy has always been to separate those two key anchor points. Because he knows to separate them makes the one remaining null and void in the life of the people.



The downfall of the Jewish nation was that they rejected Christ and made the law a ritual, on outward "keeping of the letter", for without Christ the law only condemns, it cannot forgive or transform the life.

The downfall of the Christian nations is that they reject God's law (especially the special day God sanctified and blessed), they want the forgiveness, but reject the power of the gospel and the Lordship of Christ and His Holy Spirit that works to write the law upon the heart of flesh in the full magnification of principles of the law, making it an inward joy and act of true worship to walk with Christ in newness of life, in the righteousness of God's commandments.


James P. turns to Romans 14 claiming all days are holy-- implying it really doesn't matter. However, Paul is linking "keeping a day" with "eating or not eating" -- this shows he is talking about setting apart certain days as FAST days, he's not talking about the Sabbath day.

HOWEVER- it's very strange that Christians will use that passage to tell those who keep the seventh-day that it doesn't matter what day one keeps. BUT WAIT --

This thread is about SUNDAY LAWS --
Don't you think it really strange that papacy is very open about pushing Sunday laws -- Protestant Sunday Alliance groups are very open about pushing Sunday laws. Statements are made by these influential leaders on the importance of Sunday, yet our anti-Adventist Sabbath friends seem to have nothing to say concerning that.

That's where the real paradox comes in --
The religious system that is emerging will JUDGE everyone as to what day they worship -- they will legislate it, they will persecute and force and claim it is for the good of society etc. etc. etc.

It does MATTER --
Is our allegiance with our Creator God who alone is our Savior?
or is our allegiance to the papal confederation that rises with a COUNTERFEIT WORSHIP system as their purposed means to save the world. (Which will bring it to utter ruin)

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: James Peterson] #176481
08/31/15 04:51 AM
08/31/15 04:51 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Is the SDA Church ready to meet the Sunday Law Crisis? Will Jesus allow the crisis to play out if the SDA Church is not ready? Is the SDA Church more ready now than ever before? Or, is it more mess up now than ever before? Is the World ready for the Sunday Law Crisis? Is it more ready than ever before?

SDA have reached the erroneous conclusion that Rev. 12:17, "the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the [remnant] of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ", refers to them and their plight for worshiping God on Saturdays some time soon. BUT it says the dragon went to make war with the [remnant] of the woman's offspring. HE WENT TO MAKE WAR. It does not say, he was going to make war (as in the future), but went to make war. He let the woman go and WENT to make war against the [remnant] of her children. Therefore, while the woman was in the wilderness for 1,260 days, he was wreaking havoc among the [remnant] of her offspring DURING THE SAME PERIOD OF TIME. SDA have therefore become false prophets by twisting the meaning of the spirit of prophecy, i.e. The Revelation of Jesus Christ.

It is now interesting that when they are corrected, they get hot under the collar and seek to silence those who speak the truth.

///



Firstly, Satan did not "let the woman go":

The virtuous woman, symbolizing God's pure Church was "given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness".
Furthermore, "the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.".

The Devil chased the woman (God's true Church), but "the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.".

"And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man [child].
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth." Revelation 12:13-16


You say:
because the Dragon "WENT TO MAKE WAR" "with the [remnant] of the woman's offspring", this means it happened in the past?

Yes it did happen in the past, and has been continuing for hundreds of years!
Do you suppose that war is an instantaneous event? Wars may begin suddenly; however, they seldom end quickly. Have you ever heard of the Hundred Years' War? Some wars last a long long time. God has had His faithful followers in every age, do you believe Satan has not been at war with them every moment of every day?


You say:
"Therefore, while the woman was in the wilderness for 1,260 days, he was wreaking havoc among the [remnant] of her offspring DURING THE SAME PERIOD OF TIME."

I agree. Since a prophetic "day" equals a literal year, Numbers 14:34, Ezekiel 4:6, Satan was "wreaking havoc among her offspring DURING THE SAME PERIOD OF TIME.".
That is while the Catholic Church possessed enough political power to torture and murder God's people.

Incidentally, "seed" or "offspring" are descended from their Mother. The very fact that the Dragon "went to make war with the remnant of her seed", shows that the war continued, also the word "remnent" is the part that remains. This is not a battle from the distant past, it continues. It is being fought HERE and NOW!


You say:
"SDA have reached the erroneous conclusion that Rev. 12:17, "the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the [remnant] of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ", refers to them and their plight for worshiping God on Saturdays some time soon"

Since a "remnent" is going to look the same as what it came from and since the "seed" or "offspring" of a Church is other Churches ("living creatures" are to reproduce, "after their kind" Genesis 1) let us look for a Church that follows the same TEN Commandments as the Church of Christ and the Apostles.

Tell me, what other Church teaches the sacredness of ALL Ten Commandments? Most teach obedience or at least lip service to nine Commandments, but what about the only Commandment that begins with the Command to "REMEMBER"? Most churches seem to have forgotten that One! Therefore, most churches cannot be the "remnent". Of the few that do teach the sacredness of ALL Ten Commandments, how many have "the testimony of Jesus Christ" which is "the spirit of prophecy"? Revelation 19:10

Only the Seventh Day Adventist Church meets both requirements: respect for ALL Ten Commandments and possession of the Spirit of Prophesy, manifested in the writings of Ellen White.
Since you claim to be SDA (contrary to what you wrote in your profile) naturally you believe in the prophetic ministry of Ellen White, the co-founder of our Church, don't you?

Scripture clearly teaches that Satan is making war with Sabbath keeping, Holy Spirit following, Christians. The only person I see "twisting the meaning of the spirit of prophecy, i.e. The Revelation of Jesus Christ", is you!





"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Revelation 12:17



"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: James Peterson] #176483
08/31/15 06:39 AM
08/31/15 06:39 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
Mr. James Peterson, or is it Father James Peterson? I have been reading through some of your posts on other threads. It is painfully obvious, you are not a Seventh Day Adventist and you are a "friend" to Seventh Day Adventists in much the same way as a wolf is a "friend" to sheep! You are fully aware of the denominational affiliation and Fundamental Beliefs of the majority of members on this site. Why don't you fill us in on your denomination and beliefs? Remember: "The Truth shall set you free.".

I am an SDA. But SDA have a great many false doctrines. I only wish to correct those false ideas. One of those false beliefs is that God is VERY angry because some people are worshiping Him on Sundays instead of Saturdays. "The truth will set you free" indeed.

///





It's strange James, you say you are an SDA member, but to quote this site's Master of Ceremonies, Daryl: "Your profile states that you are NOT a member of the SDA church."???


James Peterson said:

"It is now interesting that when they are corrected, they get hot under the collar and seek to silence those who speak the truth."


Hmm, I don't recall anyone trying to "silence" you.  In fact each of your attacks on the teachings of the Seventh Day Adventist Church has been met and answered with a resounding: "thus saith the Lord"!

What is "interesting" is the way you refer to Seventh Day Adventists in the third person, plural: 

"when THEY are corrected",
"THEY get hot under the collar".

Almost makes you sound like an outsider, doesn't it?

 This strange phraseology, along with your blatantly, anti-SDA posts, and a touch of paranoia, (guilt induced, perhaps?) NO ONE HAS TRIED TO "SILENCE" YOU, leads me to believe that your profile is correct, indeed you are NOT an SDA member!

It's also quite "interesting" that you concluded your last post with the words: "seek to silence those who speak the truth.".  

You cannot possibly be referring to yourself as one of "those who speak the truth."

On this very site, you are on record as claiming to be both an SDA member and a Non-SDA member.

One of your claims is an outright lie!

Your attitude on this site has been one of superiority, as though you are more knowledgeable about God's Word than us Scripture "twisting" Seventh Day Adventists!

Does your superior biblical knowledge tell you that Jesus does NOT lie?   

Has your thorough study of the Bible taken you to the end of Revelation yet?

"And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a LIE: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life."

Revelation 21:27



The name Peterson, has a real Catholic feel...

 There is a Father James Peterson, who is an associate pastor at St. Odilia’s in Shorewood, MN.  

Is he... a relative, perhaps?



"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176493
08/31/15 02:41 PM
08/31/15 02:41 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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James, I study here because it is a haven of rest for SDA. The goal here is to study why our fundamental beliefs are biblically sound - not to prove they are of Satan.

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: Mountain Man] #176494
08/31/15 02:45 PM
08/31/15 02:45 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Is the SDA Church ready to meet the Sunday Law Crisis? Will Jesus allow the crisis to play out if the SDA Church is not ready? Is the SDA Church more ready now than ever before? Or, is it more mess up now than ever before?

Is the World ready for the Sunday Law Crisis? Is it more ready than ever before?

Personally, I don't think the SDA Church or the World is ready for the Sunday Law Crisis. First, we need a serious revival and reformation. Then we can muster our forces and proclaim the 3AM through practical experience. Then the World will be impressed with our love and endeared to our doctrines - the truth as it is in Jesus.

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176503
08/31/15 09:21 PM
08/31/15 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
It's strange James, you say you are an SDA member, but to quote this site's Master of Ceremonies, Daryl: "Your profile states that you are NOT a member of the SDA church."???

James Peterson said: "It is now interesting that when they are corrected, they get hot under the collar and seek to silence those who speak the truth." Hmm, I don't recall anyone trying to "silence" you.  In fact each of your attacks on the teachings of the Seventh Day Adventist Church has been met and answered with a resounding: "thus saith the Lord"! What is "interesting" is the way you refer to Seventh Day Adventists in the third person, plural: 

"when THEY are corrected",
"THEY get hot under the collar".

Almost makes you sound like an outsider, doesn't it?

This strange phraseology, along with your blatantly, anti-SDA posts, and a touch of paranoia, (guilt induced, perhaps?) NO ONE HAS TRIED TO "SILENCE" YOU, leads me to believe that your profile is correct, indeed you are NOT an SDA member! It's also quite "interesting" that you concluded your last post with the words: "seek to silence those who speak the truth.".  You cannot possibly be referring to yourself as one of "those who speak the truth." On this very site, you are on record as claiming to be both an SDA member and a Non-SDA member. One of your claims is an outright lie!

Your attitude on this site has been one of superiority, as though you are more knowledgeable about God's Word than us Scripture "twisting" Seventh Day Adventists! Does your superior biblical knowledge tell you that Jesus does NOT lie? Has your thorough study of the Bible taken you to the end of Revelation yet? And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a LIE: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life." Revelation 21:27. The name Peterson, has a real Catholic feel .. There is a Father James Peterson, who is an associate pastor at St. Odilia’s in Shorewood, MN. Is he... a relative, perhaps?

At GCSA2015, 41% voted for women's ordination, 58% against. Afterwards, as the article states, "General Conference president Ted N.C. Wilson appealed to church members to unite in the mission of the church after the vote at the 2015 General Conference Session in San Antonio, Texas." Are you an SDA Ostrich with your proverbial head in the sand concerning the reality of Adventism today? There are a spectrum of believers across the denomination, and then they are those who feel sorry for the members and wish to shine the light along their path concerning the many things of which I speak to you. But you behave like a Nazarene.

Secondly, you agreed with me that at the same time that the woman was in the wilderness, the dragon was after [the remnant] of her children DURING THE 1,260 DAYS and not after. Therefore SDA prophesy falsely when they self-righteously appropriate the verse, Rev. 12:17, to themselves. It is not good to tell lies now, is it?

By the way, the Testimony of Jesus Christ is the Book of His Revelation. And those who keep His commandments are those who love the Catholics too. Otherwise they are a fire-breathing baby dragon, salivating at the thought of a burning stake.

///


Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: Mountain Man] #176504
08/31/15 09:47 PM
08/31/15 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
James, I study here because it is a haven of rest for SDA. The goal here is to study why our fundamental beliefs are biblically sound - not to prove they are of Satan.

The word "study" presumes an open mind to realities with which you were previously unacquainted. It means that if the things you believe were found to be wrong, you were honest enough to admit it and willing enough to follow the truth.

But methinks thou art possessed of the spirit of Narcissus, for thou lovest thyself mightily and the look of thy visage in the still waters. Indeed, thy cave reachest to the heavens and the sound of thine own voice echoeth for thee in the still of the night.

///

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176515
09/01/15 02:54 AM
09/01/15 02:54 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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James, I am willing to study the way you described elsewhere - but not here. I am not here to question whether SDA fundamental beliefs are true or false. I have studied them extensively and am convinced they are sound doctrine. There comes a point in ones journey where one is satisfied the truth is true. I cannot spend my entire life in doubt or disbelief, wondering if what I believe about the truth as it is in Jesus is true or false. It is the truth that sets me free. I am free indeed.

Are you free? Or, are you still not sure if what you believe about the truth is true of false?

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: James Peterson] #176518
09/01/15 05:18 AM
09/01/15 05:18 AM
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First it was acknowledged that the dragon was ALREADY waging war doing the 1260 years, (indeed the dragon has been waging war against God and His commandments and people since Eden) but this war will escalate as time progresses. There was NO HINT that this war is "past" alone -- the full message is that it escalates to greater intensity in the future.

The full fury of the dragon's last desperate attempt to get people away from true worship of the Creator, into worshipping the creature, is still ahead.


And yes, the prophecy is clear -- the war is against those who KEEP GOD'S COMMANDMENTS.
The fourth commandment is clearly linguistically linked to this message.
"Worship Him Who made the heavens and the earth and the fountains of water" Rev. 14:

Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy
For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Ex. 20



To warn against the power that WILL persecute, brings upon the bearers of that message intense scorn.


Sadly -- those who support the papal system that WILL PERSECUTE, and has a long history in which it did persecute with fierce torture and death, will find out too late the truth of the matter.


Yes, at present the Adventist Church has been flooded with "non believers" in the Adventist message who are working hard to prepare Adventists to accept the false system of worship.

But that does not destroy the message.
When the crises hits, thousands will give up the Sabbath, and join the papal led ecumenical worship,
--multitudes will leave.

It will be a very sad day.

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: dedication] #176546
09/02/15 08:11 AM
09/02/15 08:11 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: dedication

First it was acknowledged that the dragon was ALREADY waging war doing the 1260 years, (indeed the dragon has been waging war against God and His commandments and people since Eden) but this war will escalate as time progresses. There was NO HINT that this war is "past" alone -- the full message is that it escalates to greater intensity in the future.

The full fury of the dragon's last desperate attempt to get people away from true worship of the Creator, into worshipping the creature, is still ahead.


And yes, the prophecy is clear -- the war is against those who KEEP GOD'S COMMANDMENTS.
The fourth commandment is clearly linguistically linked to this message.
"Worship Him Who made the heavens and the earth and the fountains of water" Rev. 14:

Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy
For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Ex. 20



To warn against the power that WILL persecute, brings upon the bearers of that message intense scorn.


Sadly -- those who support the papal system that WILL PERSECUTE, and has a long history in which it did persecute with fierce torture and death, will find out too late the truth of the matter.


Yes, at present the Adventist Church has been flooded with "non believers" in the Adventist message who are working hard to prepare Adventists to accept the false system of worship.

But that does not destroy the message.
When the crises hits, thousands will give up the Sabbath, and join the papal led ecumenical worship,
--multitudes will leave.

It will be a very sad day.


Well said, dedication!

I agree that the 'Adventist Church has been flooded with "non believers"'.

"And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood." Revelation12:15

The Devil is still using this very effective attack against God's people.

Have you heard about The One Project that is presently slithering its way through our Church? Participants are encouraged and even coached to question everything about Adventism. This is because controversy in a church is "healthy"...
I have seen a few posts on site that make me think there are some One Project adherents here.

If our "friend" James is indeed an SDA member?? I wonder if he has been snared by these pseudoAdventists?


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: James Peterson] #176547
09/02/15 09:27 AM
09/02/15 09:27 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
It's strange James, you say you are an SDA member, but to quote this site's Master of Ceremonies, Daryl: "Your profile states that you are NOT a member of the SDA church."???

James Peterson said: "It is now interesting that when they are corrected, they get hot under the collar and seek to silence those who speak the truth." Hmm, I don't recall anyone trying to "silence" you.  In fact each of your attacks on the teachings of the Seventh Day Adventist Church has been met and answered with a resounding: "thus saith the Lord"! What is "interesting" is the way you refer to Seventh Day Adventists in the third person, plural: 

"when THEY are corrected",
"THEY get hot under the collar".

Almost makes you sound like an outsider, doesn't it?

This strange phraseology, along with your blatantly, anti-SDA posts, and a touch of paranoia, (guilt induced, perhaps?) NO ONE HAS TRIED TO "SILENCE" YOU, leads me to believe that your profile is correct, indeed you are NOT an SDA member! It's also quite "interesting" that you concluded your last post with the words: "seek to silence those who speak the truth.".  You cannot possibly be referring to yourself as one of "those who speak the truth." On this very site, you are on record as claiming to be both an SDA member and a Non-SDA member. One of your claims is an outright lie!

Your attitude on this site has been one of superiority, as though you are more knowledgeable about God's Word than us Scripture "twisting" Seventh Day Adventists! Does your superior biblical knowledge tell you that Jesus does NOT lie? Has your thorough study of the Bible taken you to the end of Revelation yet? And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a LIE: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life." Revelation 21:27. The name Peterson, has a real Catholic feel .. There is a Father James Peterson, who is an associate pastor at St. Odilia’s in Shorewood, MN. Is he... a relative, perhaps?

At GCSA2015, 41% voted for women's ordination, 58% against. Afterwards, as the article states, "General Conference president Ted N.C. Wilson appealed to church members to unite in the mission of the church after the vote at the 2015 General Conference Session in San Antonio, Texas." Are you an SDA Ostrich with your proverbial head in the sand concerning the reality of Adventism today? There are a spectrum of believers across the denomination, and then they are those who feel sorry for the members and wish to shine the light along their path concerning the many things of which I speak to you. But you behave like a Nazarene.

Secondly, you agreed with me that at the same time that the woman was in the wilderness, the dragon was after [the remnant] of her children DURING THE 1,260 DAYS and not after. Therefore SDA prophesy falsely when they self-righteously appropriate the verse, Rev. 12:17, to themselves. It is not good to tell lies now, is it?

By the way, the Testimony of Jesus Christ is the Book of His Revelation. And those who keep His commandments are those who love the Catholics too. Otherwise they are a fire-breathing baby dragon, salivating at the thought of a burning stake.

///



Firstly:

"No prophet is accepted in his own country."

James, are you saying you are a prophet? Why don't your words agree with Scripture then? Are you a big believer in Cultural Interpretation?

I am no "ostrich" James. Alas, I am all too well aware of "the reality of Adventism today".
The Shaking is soon to come.

Yes there are a "spectrum of believers across the denomination". In fact I'm certain your "views would be welcomed at "Spectrum", or your local "The One Project".


Secondly:

I agree, "it is not good to tell lies". The ones you have told concerning the 1260 days/years and the persecution of the Woman's seed have been dealt with in my own response, which you either misunderstood or ignored, and again quite nicely by dedication.

You never answered this question from a previous post: "do you believe the prophetic writings of our Church's cofounder, Ellen White?" If not, I fail to see how you can claim to be an SDA member?? Just in case you do accept Sister White's prophetic writings here is something for you:

"And now began the 1260 years of papal oppression foretold in the prophecies of Daniel and the Revelation. [Daniel 7:25; Revelation 13:5-7.] Christians were forced to choose, either to yield their integrity and accept the papal ceremonies and worship, or to wear away their lives in dungeons or suffer death by the rack, the fagot, or the headsman’s ax. Now were fulfilled the words of Jesus, “Ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake.” [Luke 21:16, 17.] Persecution opened upon the faithful with greater fury than ever before, and the world became a vast battle-field. For hundreds of years the church of Christ found refuge in seclusion and obscurity. Thus says the prophet: “The woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.” [Revelation 12:6.] – {GC88 54.2}


Thirdly:

I have never heard ANY Seventh Day Adventist say they hated Catholics.

If we did not "love the Catholics too", why would a major part of our message be:

"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

We hate the false system of worship, not the people trapped inside of it!


"By the way," if "the Testimony of Jesus Christ is the Book of His Revelation.", then why does Revelation 19:10 say:

"...for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."?



Fourthly:


You seem to think you are acting the "prophet" to a segment of the "SDA spectrum" you disapprove of; however, you forget that Prophets DO NOT LIE!

You either lied to me when you said you "are an SDA member", or you lied to everyone on this site when you claimed to be a "non-SDA member" in your profile!

Which of your claims is the lie???

The honest members of this site have answered each of your challenges.
Now, answer this question! Did you LIE in your post, or did you LIE in your profile???

Answer the question please! We all have a right to know who the false prophet is, who is continually attacking our Church!


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176553
09/02/15 03:05 PM
09/02/15 03:05 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Fortunately people like APL, Kland, and James (people who reject certain fundamental beliefs) present their aberrant views in an unloving, ineffective manner. No one who is serious about the fundamental beliefs is going to take them seriously. However, there are people out there who have a winsome, endearing way of sharing the same views. They are a true threat to the truth as it is in Jesus.

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176556
09/02/15 07:50 PM
09/02/15 07:50 PM
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James Peterson  Offline
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Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
Just in case you do accept Sister White's prophetic writings here is something for you: "And now began the 1260 years of papal oppression foretold in the prophecies of Daniel and the Revelation. [Daniel 7:25; Revelation 13:5-7.] Christians were forced to choose, either to yield their integrity and accept the papal ceremonies and worship, or to wear away their lives in dungeons or suffer death by the rack, the fagot, or the headsman’s ax. Now were fulfilled the words of Jesus, “Ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake.” [Luke 21:16, 17.] Persecution opened upon the faithful with greater fury than ever before, and the world became a vast battle-field. For hundreds of years the church of Christ found refuge in seclusion and obscurity. Thus says the prophet: “The woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.” [Revelation 12:6.] – {GC88 54.2}

That's an erroneous opinion for the text (Rev. 12:13-17):
  1. Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.
  2. And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the [remnant] of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
It is patently obvious that the woman and the [remnant] of her offspring were in two different places at the same time: 1,260 days. During that self same time:
  • the woman was protected IN THE WILDERNESS but
  • the [remnant] of her offspring fell into war AT HOME.

Therefore, SDA prophesy falsely when they appropriate 12:17 to themselves.

///


Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: Mountain Man] #176560
09/02/15 10:17 PM
09/02/15 10:17 PM
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kland  Offline
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It appears that some people have trouble with pride here.

(Not referring to you James)

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: Mountain Man] #176561
09/02/15 10:25 PM
09/02/15 10:25 PM
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kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
APL, have you earned the right to preach your view of justice and punishment? You believe Jesus withdraws His protection and permits evil men and evil angels to torture and kill innocent women and children.
And you think Jesus tortures and kill innocent women and children? Tell us, which fits in with our fundamental beliefs better, which explains the great controversy better:
Evil men and evil angels torturing innocent women and children
or
Jesus torturing innocent women and children?

Quote:
So, as soon as Jesus feels death, disease, and destruction are in order - He turns it over to evil men and evil angels to fill the order.
I know of no where that APL has said that Jesus turns things over to evil men and evil angels to fill the order. Could you show us?

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176566
09/03/15 03:03 AM
09/03/15 03:03 AM
dedication  Offline
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The subject is the Pope's SUNDAY LAW agenda.

Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: James Peterson] #176567
09/03/15 03:31 AM
09/03/15 03:31 AM
dedication  Offline
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Originally Posted By: James Peterson


That's an erroneous opinion for the text (Rev. 12:13-17):

[*]And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the [remnant] of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
  • [/i]It is patently obvious that the woman and the [remnant] of her offspring were in two different places at the same time: 1,260 days. During that self same time:
      [*]the woman was protected IN THE WILDERNESS but [*]the [remnant] of her offspring fell into war AT HOME.

  • Therefore, SDA prophesy falsely when they appropriate 12:17 to themselves.



  • That is YOUR opinion and interpretation.
    I see your interpretation as being in error.

    During the 1260 years the TRUE church (not the dominant church) fled into the wilderness. Wave after wave of armies were sent out by the dominant church to destroy the church in the wilderness, till it seemed they would all perish.
    But the "earth" helped the woman.

    What is symbolized by the "earth"? And how does the "earth" help the woman?

    We see it in the next chapter, where a new nation arises from the "earth". We understand this nation to be the United States which became the leader of FREEDOM and equality in the world. Here God's people escaped from the relentless persecution in the old country.

    It was in America (the country prophecy says rose from the "earth") where the great breach in God's law was repaired and united with the everlasting gospel of the three angels' messages.

    For a time --
    due to the "earth" giving the "remainder of her offspring" a time of relative peace, Satan's persecuting hand was restrained, but that just makes him madder --and with great fury he will seek to destroy the last of the woman's offspring.

    Thus in Rev. 13 we see this same country that rose from "the earth" and helped the woman, transformed into an agent of satan and reviving and intensifying the persecution against the remaining children of the woman.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: dedication] #176568
    09/03/15 03:46 AM
    09/03/15 03:46 AM
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    James Peterson  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: dedication
    During the 1260 years the TRUE church (not the dominant church) fled into the wilderness. Wave after wave of armies were sent out by the dominant church to destroy the church in the wilderness, till it seemed they would all perish. But the "earth" helped the woman.

    What is symbolized by the "earth"? And how does the "earth" help the woman? We see it in the next chapter, where a new nation arises from the "earth". We understand this nation to be the United States which became the leader of FREEDOM and equality in the world. Here God's people escaped from the relentless persecution in the old country. It was in America (the country prophecy says rose from the "earth") where the great breach in God's law was repaired and united with the everlasting gospel of the three angels' messages.

    For a time -- due to the "earth" giving the "remainder of her offspring" a time of relative peace, Satan's persecuting hand was restrained, but that just makes him madder --and with great fury he will seek to destroy the last of the woman's offspring. Thus in Rev. 13 we see this same country that rose from "the earth" and helped the woman, transformed into an agent of satan and reviving and intensifying the persecution against the remaining children of the woman.

    However you see who is what, it does not negate the fact that the woman was separated from the [remnant] of her offspring during AND for 1,260 days. The dragon's war with them (her offspring) was for 1,260 days, WHILE she was safe in the wilderness. It is a false prophet therefore who would say that, in these days, SDA are depicted in Rev. 12:17.

    ///

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: kland] #176579
    09/03/15 08:17 PM
    09/03/15 08:17 PM
    Mountain Man  Offline
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    I exported this post to the Global Warming Farce thread.

    Originally Posted By: kland
    Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
    APL, have you earned the right to preach your view of justice and punishment? You believe Jesus withdraws His protection and permits evil men and evil angels to torture and kill innocent women and children.
    And you think Jesus tortures and kill innocent women and children? Tell us, which fits in with our fundamental beliefs better, which explains the great controversy better:
    Evil men and evil angels torturing innocent women and children
    or
    Jesus torturing innocent women and children?

    Quote:
    So, as soon as Jesus feels death, disease, and destruction are in order - He turns it over to evil men and evil angels to fill the order.
    I know of no where that APL has said that Jesus turns things over to evil men and evil angels to fill the order. Could you show us?

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: James Peterson] #176587
    09/04/15 03:31 AM
    09/04/15 03:31 AM
    dedication  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: James Peterson
    However you see who is what, it does not negate the fact that the woman was separated from the [remnant] of her offspring during AND for 1,260 days. The dragon's war with them (her offspring) was for 1,260 days, WHILE she was safe in the wilderness. It is a false prophet therefore who would say that, in these days, SDA are depicted in Rev. 12:17.


    Why do you think the woman (God's people, the faithful church) was safe in the wilderness. Now the faithful church was definitely safer, then were she living in the papal dominated society, but totally safe, she was not.

    Scripture only says that she was NOURISHED there for 1260 years.

    What period of history is this predicting? Verse 6 mentions 1,260 days. Verse 14 calls the same period "a time, and times, and half a time." This same historical time-period is mentioned seven times in Daniel and Revelation. By studying the cumulative reports of this time period gives us reason to believe that the period refers to the centuries when an apostate papal power was using civil power to enforce it's brand of religion. Chiefly the 1260 day/years are during the Middle Ages (538-1798). During those centuries, the people of God, the church of Jesus Christ, was in the wilderness.


    History shows that the papal armies were sent out time and again to exterminate the church in the wilderness, sometimes a miracle intervened, but often the armies would wreck havoc upon the people, wiping out whole villages.

    That persecuting force was stopped FOR A TIME.
    The "beast' that was given power to war with the saints, and to overcome them for 1260 years received a deadly wound. (See Rev. 13)

    Near the end of the 1260 years the "earth" opened her mouth to receive the flood of persecution -- as a new land, far from papal control opened up.

    But one thing is clear in scriptures -- though thwarted for a time, Satan's anger at the woman has dimmed.

    He is marshaling his forces for a huge attack on those who "keep God's commandments and have the faith and the testimony of Jesus.

    The smart thing to do is to be sure we are on Christ's side!
    Anchored in Him with a vital connection.
    He is our Savior, and with Him we can stand.



    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176591
    09/04/15 08:31 AM
    09/04/15 08:31 AM
    ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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    Just out of curiosity, did anybody actually watch the video?


    "...I will not forget you.
    Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

    Isaiah 49:15-16
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176595
    09/04/15 11:37 AM
    09/04/15 11:37 AM
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    daylily  Offline
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    I watched it a few weeks ago.

    It seems like every thread on this forum turns into a discussion of James' prophecies or his interpretations of prophecies or the God does not kill beliefs. I got so tired of reading the same arguments over and over and over that I rarely come here now. None of you are going to change the others minds. Why can't we just discuss the topics at hand instead of going back to the same old stuff repeatedly?

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: daylily] #176598
    09/04/15 03:23 PM
    09/04/15 03:23 PM
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    James Peterson  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: daylily
    It seems like every thread on this forum turns into a discussion of James' prophecies or his interpretations of prophecies or the God does not kill beliefs. I got so tired of reading the same arguments over and over and over that I rarely come here now. None of you are going to change the others minds. Why can't we just discuss the topics at hand instead of going back to the same old stuff repeatedly?

    What you are saying in effect is that you would like this site to become an echo chamber of YOUR thoughts: "[i]seems like every thread on this forum turns into a discussion of James' prophecies or his interpretation of prophecies". EVERY THREAD??? lol

    I am currently only on TWO threads, out of the "thousands" on the site: this and the one on what to do with members who disagree with the SDA 28FB. And we are having a lovely time.

    ///

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176599
    09/04/15 03:23 PM
    09/04/15 03:23 PM
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    kland  Offline
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    Hearing what Batchelor has to say, and knowing that all this global warming nonsense never made any sense, it is apparent to me that there is a high probability that jesuits had something to do with promoting global warming. Now it all fits so nicely to urge a sunday law to reduce the imaginary, if not natural, at least so-called man-made, warming. An intentional plot, which many have fallen for, to put things in place for sunday laws. Wouldn't surprise me that jesuits are promoting the homosexual agenda to the point that society says we do need a "family day", we need to force everyone to go to church, and sunday is as good as any other day.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176600
    09/04/15 03:26 PM
    09/04/15 03:26 PM
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    James Peterson  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
    Just out of curiosity, did anybody actually watch the video?

    You summed it up quite nicely. But the Bible says otherwise. I thought that was the reason we were so engaged in this animated discussion of ours.

    ///

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: James Peterson] #176611
    09/05/15 12:48 AM
    09/05/15 12:48 AM
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    daylily  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: James Peterson
    Originally Posted By: daylily
    It seems like every thread on this forum turns into a discussion of James' prophecies or his interpretations of prophecies or the God does not kill beliefs. I got so tired of reading the same arguments over and over and over that I rarely come here now. None of you are going to change the others minds. Why can't we just discuss the topics at hand instead of going back to the same old stuff repeatedly?

    What you are saying in effect is that you would like this site to become an echo chamber of YOUR thoughts: "[i]seems like every thread on this forum turns into a discussion of James' prophecies or his interpretation of prophecies". EVERY THREAD??? lol

    I am currently only on TWO threads, out of the "thousands" on the site: this and the one on what to do with members who disagree with the SDA 28FB. And we are having a lovely time.

    ///


    LOL, Well, every thread might be a slight exaggeration but it seems like every one I read has those same discussions. smile

    Echo chamber of my thoughts? Ha! Nope. I would just like the threads to stay on topic. So now that I've veered this thread off topic, I'll bid everyone goodnight and go read a book smile

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: daylily] #176616
    09/05/15 05:50 AM
    09/05/15 05:50 AM
    ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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    Originally Posted By: daylily
    I watched it a few weeks ago.

    It seems like every thread on this forum turns into a discussion of James' prophecies or his interpretations of prophecies or the God does not kill beliefs. I got so tired of reading the same arguments over and over and over that I rarely come here now. None of you are going to change the others minds. Why can't we just discuss the topics at hand instead of going back to the same old stuff repeatedly?



    I would ad WOPE to the list ! LOL

    If we all try not to be drawn into fruitless debate, this forum could become a more interesting place. Maybe, we could even help one and other understand God's will as revealed in Scripture, the SOP, and current events? Maybe, we could help one and other grow closer to God and each other?

    Perhaps, I am a bit naive. Still, one can hope...


    By the way, James has lost crediblity, due to being caught lying. He has neither apologized, nor remedied the situation; therefore, I view his radical, toxic, opinions with mistrust. I have no plans to engage him in further conversation. Others may do as they see fit.


    "...I will not forget you.
    Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

    Isaiah 49:15-16
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: kland] #176617
    09/05/15 06:33 AM
    09/05/15 06:33 AM
    ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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    Originally Posted By: kland
    Hearing what Batchelor has to say, and knowing that all this global warming nonsense never made any sense, it is apparent to me that there is a high probability that jesuits had something to do with promoting global warming. Now it all fits so nicely to urge a sunday law to reduce the imaginary, if not natural, at least so-called man-made, warming. An intentional plot, which many have fallen for, to put things in place for sunday laws. Wouldn't surprise me that jesuits are promoting the homosexual agenda to the point that society says we do need a "family day", we need to force everyone to go to church, and sunday is as good as any other day.


    You could be right kland, who knows? One thing is certain, the Jesuits are definitely taking every advantage of the situation. Have you read the Pope's encyclical on the environment? It reads like the Catholic Mein Kampf! He has over a billion Catholics, most of the Protestant churches and national political leadership, a fair number of Muslims and Buddhists like him, now he has won the hearts and minds of the environmental movement, which endears him to the atheistic spirit that worships only the physical world.

    He recently gave mundane clergy permission to forgive women who have had abortions. Also, his comment about homosexuals awhile back: "who am I to judge?" Together, this gives him feminist and LGBT support. Francis is playing this planet like a violin!

    "And all the World wondered after the Beast."

    And in the background, the demonic chorus echos the steadily repeated mantra: "Keep Sunday Holy, The Lord's Day is for families, The Mass has Special Power on the First Day of the Week!"

    This is not a time in history when we should be distracted by fruit devouring controversies, satanically inspired to divide God's Remnant. We must be faithful Watchmen! We must be united! We must walk while we have Light!





    "...I will not forget you.
    Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

    Isaiah 49:15-16
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: daylily] #176639
    09/05/15 08:24 PM
    09/05/15 08:24 PM
    Daryl  Offline

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    Joined: Jul 2000
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    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Originally Posted By: daylily
    I watched it a few weeks ago.

    It seems like every thread on this forum turns into a discussion of James' prophecies or his interpretations of prophecies or the God does not kill beliefs. I got so tired of reading the same arguments over and over and over that I rarely come here now. None of you are going to change the others minds. Why can't we just discuss the topics at hand instead of going back to the same old stuff repeatedly?

    ADMIN HAT ON!!!!!

    Very good point, therefore, we are going to become strict against those clearly and intentionally taking threads off-topic, as of now.

    ADMIN HAT OFF!!!!!


    In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

    Daryl smile

    John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

    http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176647
    09/06/15 12:13 AM
    09/06/15 12:13 AM
    Mountain Man  Offline
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    Daryl, I hope you are serious. There has been a gross neglect in last few months. Please ensure that this forum is a safe and pleasant place for SDA to learn why our fundamental beliefs are indeed sound doctrine. Thank you.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176648
    09/06/15 12:16 AM
    09/06/15 12:16 AM
    dedication  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
    Originally Posted By: kland
    Hearing what Batchelor has to say, and knowing that all this global warming nonsense never made any sense, it is apparent to me that there is a high probability that jesuits had something to do with promoting global warming. Now it all fits so nicely to urge a sunday law to reduce the imaginary, if not natural, at least so-called man-made, warming. An intentional plot, which many have fallen for, to put things in place for sunday laws. Wouldn't surprise me that jesuits are promoting the homosexual agenda to the point that society says we do need a "family day", we need to force everyone to go to church, and sunday is as good as any other day.


    You could be right kland, who knows? One thing is certain, the Jesuits are definitely taking every advantage of the situation. Have you read the Pope's encyclical on the environment? It reads like the Catholic Mein Kampf! He has over a billion Catholics, most of the Protestant churches and national political leadership, a fair number of Muslims and Buddhists like him, now he has won the hearts and minds of the environmental movement, which endears him to the atheistic spirit that worships only the physical world.

    He recently gave mundane clergy permission to forgive women who have had abortions. Also, his comment about homosexuals awhile back: "who am I to judge?" Together, this gives him feminist and LGBT support. Francis is playing this planet like a violin!

    "And all the World wondered after the Beast."

    And in the background, the demonic chorus echos the steadily repeated mantra: "Keep Sunday Holy, The Lord's Day is for families, The Mass has Special Power on the First Day of the Week!"

    This is not a time in history when we should be distracted by fruit devouring controversies, satanically inspired to divide God's Remnant. We must be faithful Watchmen! We must be united! We must walk while we have Light!





    Excellent comments.

    Personally I believe there is far more going on behind the scenes then we realize --
    Rome has an agenda -- a long term agenda
    "Marvelous in her shrewdness and cunning is the Romish Church. She can read what is to be. She bides her time" GC 579

    This didn't begin with pope Francis, it began years ago and is now gaining dizzying speed toward it's ultimate goal.

    Quote:
    "From the beginning of pontification, John Paul has been talking incessantly about the convergence of the nations. He had the endgame in view some ten years before other men faced into it, and for his pains, he has been seen by many in the West as a man of the East, and by many in the East as a man of the West....He would endow his papacy with an international profile and, as Pope, move around among world leaders and nations, vindicating a position for himself as a special leader among leaders, because in that competition he plans to emerge as the victor. (Keys of His Blood, by M.Martin, p. 480)

    "John Paul is following a timetable he asserts has been established in heaven; and he fully presumes that what he does and they do will succeed only if it conforms to the foretold sequence of historical events he confidently ascribes to a woman (Mary) he, along with other millions, venerates under the symbol of her heart. (Ibid 493)

    In John Paul's outlook...a grand design of God's would be inaugurated for the society of nations. It would be a geopolitical unity of all the nations. It would come after all the efforts of trans nationalists and internationalists had come to utter shipwreck...following that shipwreck, the Grand Design of God would be executed.... (Ibid p. 637)

    He is waiting for an event that will fission human history...it will immediately nullify all the grand designs the nations are now forming and will introduce the Grand Design of man's maker." {ibid p. 639)


    Pope Francis will visit the United States THIS MONTH;

    Sept 24, Address the Joint Meeting of the United States Congress, in Washington, DC
    Sept 25 Address to the United Nations General Assembly in New York
    Sept. 26-27 To Philadelphia World Meeting of Families

    Whether this meeting will bring any sudden changes or not we don't know, but what we do know, is that it is definitely another huge step by the papacy in its agenda to place themselves as the leaders in the "Grand design" in a new geopolitical system.
    And that religious geopolitical mergence of nations supposedly forming "God's grand design" with the leader who supposedly has "the keys" as the masters, will include Sunday laws

    There really isn't any question on that point anymore.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176661
    09/06/15 06:25 AM
    09/06/15 06:25 AM
    ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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    I agree! The Catholic plot has been many years in the making. Where nations plan years in advance, the Papists look decades, even centuries ahead.
    What chance does the short sighted secular world have in the face of such insidious intelligence? Only the Lord God can bring us safely through the coming darkness.


    "...I will not forget you.
    Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

    Isaiah 49:15-16
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176664
    09/06/15 07:37 AM
    09/06/15 07:37 AM
    dedication  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne

    I agree! The Catholic plot has been many years in the making. Where nations plan years in advance, the Papists look decades, even centuries ahead.
    What chance does the short sighted secular world have in the face of such insidious intelligence? Only the Lord God can bring us safely through the coming darkness.

    Very true!

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: Mountain Man] #176669
    09/06/15 01:11 PM
    09/06/15 01:11 PM
    D
    daylily  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
    Daryl, I hope you are serious. There has been a gross neglect in last few months. Please ensure that this forum is a safe and pleasant place for SDA to learn why our fundamental beliefs are indeed sound doctrine. Thank you.


    Amen! Thank you Daryl!

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176672
    09/06/15 03:13 PM
    09/06/15 03:13 PM
    Mountain Man  Offline
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    Again, the absence of Sunday Law agitation in Headline News is telling. The pope can hope but not until it makes Headline News is there any reason to believe it will happen in our lifetime. Please don't misunderstand. I'm not dissing the possibility. Final events will be rapid. The idea that it will take the papacy years of stealth and strategy to regain its lost dominion is not entirely accurate. People are fickle. Look how quickly the papacy fell out of favor when Pope Benedict ascended the Papal See. He lacked the personality and charisma of Pope John Paul II. The people don't really care about the position as much as they care about the person.

    Pope Francis is full of personality and charisma. The people like him. He is winsome and endearing. Coupled with the recent rash of natural and man-made disasters and wavering economic woes - the pope's popularity could result in Sunday Laws. However, if the economy recovers and people feel fat, dumb, and happy the possibility of Sunday Laws will lose its momentum and die out. Time will tell. The larger question, though, is - Is the SDA Church ready for the Sunday Law Crisis? Is the world ready for it? Is the timing and circumstances right?

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: Mountain Man] #176676
    09/06/15 03:40 PM
    09/06/15 03:40 PM
    J
    James Peterson  Offline
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    Dedicated Member
    Joined: Jul 2013
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    Canada
    Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
    Pope Francis is full of personality and charisma. The people like him. He is winsome and endearing. Coupled with the recent rash of natural and man-made disasters and wavering economic woes - the pope's popularity could result in Sunday Laws. However, if the economy recovers and people feel fat, dumb, and happy the possibility of Sunday Laws will lose its momentum and die out. Time will tell. The larger question, though, is - Is the SDA Church ready for the Sunday Law Crisis? Is the world ready for it? Is the timing and circumstances right?

    I agree! The Catholic plot has been many years in the making. Where nations plan years in advance, the Papists look decades, even centuries ahead. What chance does the short sighted secular world have in the face of such insidious intelligence? Only the Lord God can bring us safely through the coming darkness. --- Source: ProdigalOne

    ///

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: dedication] #176683
    09/06/15 05:11 PM
    09/06/15 05:11 PM
    ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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    Joined: Jun 2015
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    Originally Posted By: dedication
    Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
    Originally Posted By: kland
    Hearing what Batchelor has to say, and knowing that all this global warming nonsense never made any sense, it is apparent to me that there is a high probability that jesuits had something to do with promoting global warming. Now it all fits so nicely to urge a sunday law to reduce the imaginary, if not natural, at least so-called man-made, warming. An intentional plot, which many have fallen for, to put things in place for sunday laws. Wouldn't surprise me that jesuits are promoting the homosexual agenda to the point that society says we do need a "family day", we need to force everyone to go to church, and sunday is as good as any other day.



    You could be right kland, who knows? One thing is certain, the Jesuits are definitely taking every advantage of the situation. Have you read the Pope's encyclical on the environment? It reads like the Catholic Mein Kampf! He has over a billion Catholics, most of the Protestant churches and national political leadership, a fair number of Muslims and Buddhists like him, now he has won the hearts and minds of the environmental movement, which endears him to the atheistic spirit that worships only the physical world.

    He recently gave mundane clergy permission to forgive women who have had abortions. Also, his comment about homosexuals awhile back: "who am I to judge?" Together, this gives him feminist and LGBT support. Francis is playing this planet like a violin!

    "And all the World wondered after the Beast."

    And in the background, the demonic chorus echos the steadily repeated mantra: "Keep Sunday Holy, The Lord's Day is for families, The Mass has Special Power on the First Day of the Week!"

    This is not a time in history when we should be distracted by fruit devouring controversies, satanically inspired to divide God's Remnant. We must be faithful Watchmen! We must be united! We must walk while we have Light!





    Excellent comments.

    Personally I believe there is far more going on behind the scenes then we realize --
    Rome has an agenda -- a long term agenda
    "Marvelous in her shrewdness and cunning is the Romish Church. She can read what is to be. She bides her time" GC 579

    This didn't begin with pope Francis, it began years ago and is now gaining dizzying speed toward it's ultimate goal.

    Quote:
    "From the beginning of pontification, John Paul has been talking incessantly about the convergence of the nations. He had the endgame in view some ten years before other men faced into it, and for his pains, he has been seen by many in the West as a man of the East, and by many in the East as a man of the West....He would endow his papacy with an international profile and, as Pope, move around among world leaders and nations, vindicating a position for himself as a special leader among leaders, because in that competition he plans to emerge as the victor. (Keys of His Blood, by M.Martin, p. 480)

    "John Paul is following a timetable he asserts has been established in heaven; and he fully presumes that what he does and they do will succeed only if it conforms to the foretold sequence of historical events he confidently ascribes to a woman (Mary) he, along with other millions, venerates under the symbol of her heart. (Ibid 493)

    In John Paul's outlook...a grand design of God's would be inaugurated for the society of nations. It would be a geopolitical unity of all the nations. It would come after all the efforts of trans nationalists and internationalists had come to utter shipwreck...following that shipwreck, the Grand Design of God would be executed.... (Ibid p. 637)

    He is waiting for an event that will fission human history...it will immediately nullify all the grand designs the nations are now forming and will introduce the Grand Design of man's maker." {ibid p. 639)


    Pope Francis will visit the United States THIS MONTH;

    Sept 24, Address the Joint Meeting of the United States Congress, in Washington, DC
    Sept 25 Address to the United Nations General Assembly in New York
    Sept. 26-27 To Philadelphia World Meeting of Families

    Whether this meeting will bring any sudden changes or not we don't know, but what we do know, is that it is definitely another huge step by the papacy in its agenda to place themselves as the leaders in the "Grand design" in a new geopolitical system.
    And that religious geopolitical mergence of nations supposedly forming "God's grand design" with the leader who supposedly has "the keys" as the masters, will include Sunday laws

    There really isn't any question on that point anymore.




    The only real question now is what will be the catalyst for the take over and when will it occur, the "event that will fission human history"?


    "...I will not forget you.
    Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

    Isaiah 49:15-16
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176684
    09/06/15 07:33 PM
    09/06/15 07:33 PM
    J
    James Peterson  Offline
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    Dedicated Member
    Joined: Jul 2013
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    Canada
    Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
    The only real question now is what will be the catalyst for the take over and when will it occur, the "event that will fission human history"?

    Things have go on for too long. Too many congregations have tolerated too many open sins. Eventually Jesus will shake the church. Only true, dedicated SDA will remain to proclaim the 3AM. Those members and leaders who reject fundamental beliefs will go out and join the ranks of opposition. The time to pray for them is - NOW. The time to work to save them from ruin is - NOW. --- Source: Mountain Man

    ///

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176686
    09/06/15 08:35 PM
    09/06/15 08:35 PM
    D
    daylily  Offline
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    The catalyst could be more than one thing. I heard a representative of FEMA saying that FEMA can only handle one Katrina-sized disaster at a time and if there happened to be two at the same time or close together, they would be "sunk". I don't think it will be just one thing. Multiple "disasters"--financial, weather-related, racial tensions, wars and rumors of wars, disease pandemic, etc. anything is possible!

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176696
    09/07/15 04:16 PM
    09/07/15 04:16 PM
    Mountain Man  Offline
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    Daylily, I agree.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: Mountain Man] #176697
    09/07/15 05:03 PM
    09/07/15 05:03 PM
    dedication  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: Mountain Man

    Headline News is there any reason to believe it will happen in our lifetime.

    Do you think this stealth "take over" is going to be documented in "headline news"? Or will it be placed behind smoke screens and be classified as "conspiracy theories" with the implication that anyone thinking it was going on is "paranoid" and out of touch with reality.

    Headline news is controlled BY the very ones orchestrating the "take over". They want us to believe whatever message will keep us calm and uninformed (when in reality we should be alerted to impending danger) Then, on the other hand, they want us to believe whatever will get us riled up (like directing our minds against a "common enemy" in order to gather a unity of nations, people, and religions under their leadership) when it will help their agenda.

    Individual popes are not the key, it is a system, led by "demonic intelligence" (it's no secret that "marion apparitions" are their guide and devotion). Popes have been murdered because they failed to follow the "plan". Yet since they are the "visible head" it's very important they follow the plan. Even if the present pope dies (which he predicts is part of the plan) it won't stop the plan.

    Headline news right is about CLIMATE CHANGE
    and the pope coming to America to address congress and the UN.

    Now GOD IS IN CONTROL and the forces can go no further than He allows -- however the forces ARE focused on THIS MONTH

    SEPTEMBER 2015

    What did the French foreign minister mean when he said 483 days ago: 'We Have 500 Days to Avoid Climate Chaos' (google those words and you can hear him say it)

    The pope confirmed that Sep 24 2015 (in the USA) is very, very relevant, on Feb 5 of this year he told the world that he will speak to congress about ‘climate change’ on Sep 24 2015! The same date! What has the pope got to do with climate change? With the USA government?


    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176700
    09/07/15 05:27 PM
    09/07/15 05:27 PM
    dedication  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
    Originally Posted By: dedication

    Personally I believe there is far more going on behind the scenes then we realize --
    Rome has an agenda -- a long term agenda
    "Marvelous in her shrewdness and cunning is the Romish Church. She can read what is to be. She bides her time" GC 579

    This didn't begin with pope Francis, it began years ago and is now gaining dizzying speed toward it's ultimate goal.

    Quote:
    "From the beginning of pontification, John Paul has been talking incessantly about the convergence of the nations. He had the endgame in view ... (Keys of This Blood, by M.Martin, p. 480)

    "John Paul is following a timetable he asserts has been established in heaven; and he fully presumes that what he does and they do will succeed only if it conforms to the foretold sequence of historical events he confidently ascribes to a woman (Mary) he, along with other millions, venerates under the symbol of her heart. (Ibid 493)

    In John Paul's outlook...a grand design of God's would be inaugurated for the society of nations. It would be a geopolitical unity of all the nations. It would come after all the efforts of trans nationalists and internationalists had come to utter shipwreck...following that shipwreck, the Grand Design of God would be executed.... (Ibid p. 637)

    He is waiting for an event that will fission human history...it will immediately nullify all the grand designs the nations are now forming and will introduce the Grand Design of man's maker." {ibid p. 639)



    The only real question now is what will be the catalyst for the take over and when will it occur, the "event that will fission human history"?



    According to that same book written 25 years ago-- this event is about THE SUN.
    Quote:
    "It will be an event on public view in the skies, in the oceans, and on the continental landmasses. It will particularly involve our human sun, which every day lights up and shines upon the valleys, the mountains and the plains of this earth. But on the day of this event, it will not appear merely as the master star of our solar system; rather it will be seen as the circumbient glory of the woman whom the apostle describes as "clothed with the sun" giving birth to "a child who will rule the nations with a scepter of iron."...
    it will introduce the Grand Design of man's Maker.... (Keys of this Blood, by M. Martin, p. 639


    So again the question, why is the pope so focused on climate change and the US congress and the UN?


    Whether or not it will happen this month is in God's hands.
    The times are in HIS hands, not in Satan's hands.

    But it's apparent the forces are focusing on it happening.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176712
    09/08/15 02:51 PM
    09/08/15 02:51 PM
    Mountain Man  Offline
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    Dedication, I suppose there are certain elements the papacy wants to advance in disguise. However, for the most part, the papacy is very open about it desires for world peace. To end the rush of global warming and its devastating effects on man and beast, to stay the heavy hand of God, it is necessary to inspire the world to observe the Sunday Sabbath. So they think. So they say. However, the very opposite is true. Again, when things become Headline News we can be sure the end is near. Until then we have no reason to believe Jesus is more likely to return now than in previous generations.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: dedication] #176714
    09/08/15 03:14 PM
    09/08/15 03:14 PM
    J
    James Peterson  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: dedication
    So again the question, why is the pope so focused on climate change and the US congress and the UN?

    This recent video lays bare many of the Pope's near future strategies for the popularization of Sunday sacredness. The time is so very short, brothers and sisters. Are we ready? --- Source: ProdigalOne

    ///

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: Mountain Man] #176719
    09/08/15 04:04 PM
    09/08/15 04:04 PM
    dedication  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
    Dedication, I suppose there are certain elements the papacy wants to advance in disguise. However, for the most part, the papacy is very open about it desires for world peace. To end the rush of global warming and its devastating effects on man and beast, to stay the heavy hand of God, it is necessary to inspire the world to observe the Sunday Sabbath. So they think. So they say. However, the very opposite is true. Again, when things become Headline News we can be sure the end is near. Until then we have no reason to believe Jesus is more likely to return now than in previous generations.


    Your response surprises me.
    Do you actually trust a Jesuit?
    Do you think the ONLY sign of Christ's imminent return is "sunday enforcement" in the headlines?

    Sunday is a SIGN alright -- but it is a sign to show the last day religious movement is not God's movement. Sunday enforcement is NOT a sign that says we should wait till it appears before we think Christ's coming is at hand.

    Do you see the pope's message of "love, peace and brotherhood" under his guidance, as being no problem?

    The Great Controversy shows the agenda of the papacy.
    Can't you see the agenda -- how everything this pope has done in the few short months he's been in office, is to elevate the papacy into the very position prophecy has predicted it would once again rise to, in a way that all nations think he is the answer to earth's problems?

    It's all geared to have the whole world look to him as the one who will be seen as the "savior" bringing peace and harmony to the world in order to SIT as god in the temple (church) of God and dictate how everyone MUST worship. This pope is no exception to the history of what the papacy claims for itself.



    Satan is far too smart to allow the Sunday agitation issue to make headlines and be drawn out over time. He knows once the sunday laws are being enforced, a lot of Adventists and other 7th day Sabbath observers will shout alarm. He also knows that as long he keeps it hidden, Adventists will slumber on, thinking the time is yet far off.

    Thus he is working through every power, church and government, as well as the papacy, to get everything ready, everything set up, so when those Sunday laws come, they will slam down HARD and FAST with little time for Adventists to proclaim anything.
    What time they have will be extremely difficult.

    We need people like Doug Batchlor and others who are alerting people NOW! Showing the agenda NOW!

    To remain silent and say -- the pope just wants peace -- simply means that when the "slam down" "fission event" comes, the whole world will already be brain washed into thinking the pope is the answer to earth's whole problems, and will willingly follow him like sheep to the slaughter, fully believing he is the answer, and anyone who says otherwise will be looked upon as evil.







    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: dedication] #176725
    09/08/15 07:50 PM
    09/08/15 07:50 PM
    J
    James Peterson  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: dedication
    Your response surprises me, [Mountain Man]. Do you actually trust a Jesuit? Do you think the ONLY sign of Christ's imminent return is "sunday enforcement" in the headlines?

    Pastor Batchelor set a wonderful example with his humble and classy response to the Florida Conference's blatant insult. By rescheduling the Heros of the Faith seres in Michigan and continuing to spread the Three Angels' Messages, as in the warning to the church of the Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda video, he has remained faithful to God and refused to be diverted by the wiles of Satan. --- Source: ProdigalOne

    ///

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: James Peterson] #176728
    09/08/15 10:32 PM
    09/08/15 10:32 PM
    dedication  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne

    This recent video lays bare many of the Pope's near future strategies for the popularization of Sunday sacredness. The time is so very short, brothers and sisters. Are we ready?

    ///


    Amen --
    It shows this Sunday agitation is definitely in progress.
    Let's not wait till Sunday enforcement is on every front page newspaper before we believe time is very short.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176746
    09/09/15 04:11 PM
    09/09/15 04:11 PM
    Mountain Man  Offline
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    Heretofore those who presented the truths of the third angel's message have often been regarded as mere alarmists. Their predictions that religious intolerance would gain control in the United States, that church and state would unite to persecute those who keep the commandments of God, have been pronounced groundless and absurd. It has been confidently declared that this land could never become other than what it has been--the defender of religious freedom. But as the question of enforcing Sunday observance is widely agitated, the event so long doubted and disbelieved is seen to be approaching, and the third message will produce an effect which it could not have had before. {GC 605.3}

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176747
    09/09/15 04:18 PM
    09/09/15 04:18 PM
    Mountain Man  Offline
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    Dedication, as you can see from the passage above that everything you think and feel about it now is perceived by non-SDA as "mere alarmists" and "pronounced groundless and absurd". They are not going to take you too seriously until "Sunday observance is widely agitated". When Sunday Laws are widely agitated, when they are Headline News, then, and not until then, "the third message will produce an effect which it could not have had before." It will not be too late for SDA to boldly proclaim the 3AM. Don't misunderstand. I'm not saying we shouldn't proclaim the 3AM now.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: Mountain Man] #176784
    09/10/15 06:07 PM
    09/10/15 06:07 PM
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    James Peterson  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
    Dedication, as you can see from the passage above that everything you think and feel about it now is perceived by non-SDA as "mere alarmists" and "pronounced groundless and absurd". They are not going to take you too seriously until "Sunday observance is widely agitated". When Sunday Laws are widely agitated, when they are Headline News, then, and not until then, "the third message will produce an effect which it could not have had before." It will not be too late for SDA to boldly proclaim the 3AM. Don't misunderstand. I'm not saying we shouldn't proclaim the 3AM now.

    Alarmists?

    ///

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: Mountain Man] #176804
    09/12/15 07:40 AM
    09/12/15 07:40 AM
    ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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    Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
    Heretofore those who presented the truths of the third angel's message have often been regarded as mere alarmists. Their predictions that religious intolerance would gain control in the United States, that church and state would unite to persecute those who keep the commandments of God, have been pronounced groundless and absurd. It has been confidently declared that this land could never become other than what it has been--the defender of religious freedom. But as the question of enforcing Sunday observance is widely agitated, the event so long doubted and disbelieved is seen to be approaching, and the third message will produce an effect which it could not have had before. {GC 605.3}




    Sister White says: "the event so long doubted and disbelieved is seen to be approaching, and the third message will produce an effect which it could not have had before."

    If "the event" has been "so long doubted and disbelieved" by those in whom the "effect" is later "produced", can we not then infer that the Three Angels' Messages were delivered or planted as seed in the unbelieving soul, prior to the commencement of the Sunday Law?

    Consider the words of Jesus:

    "And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.
    And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth.
    I sent you to reap that whereon ye bestowed no labour: other men laboured, and ye are entered into their labours." John 4:36-38

    Is it not the purpose of prophesy to sound the warning before, not after, the fact?
    How much more force will the Third Message carry if it is delivered prior to the Enforcement of Sunday Law? Imagine the "effect" produced in the heart of someone who had "doubted and disbelieved", when they read the headline: "National Sunday Law To Be Passed".

    It may "not be too late for SDA to boldly proclaim the 3AM" after the Sunday Law passes; however, just think of how much more powerful that same message will be, if "boldly proclaimed" beforehand!

    The "effect" of the Third Message, is to germinate the seed already planted.
    Should we not be sowing the seed of the Three Angels' Messages now, looking forward in Faith to the soon to arrive Harvest?




    "...I will not forget you.
    Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

    Isaiah 49:15-16
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176811
    09/12/15 09:05 PM
    09/12/15 09:05 PM
    dedication  Offline
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    "The work which the church has failed to do in a time of peace and prosperity, she will have to do in a terrible crisis, under most discouraging, forbidding, circumstances. The warnings that worldly conformity has silenced or withheld, must be given under the fiercest opposition from enemies of the faith." Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 463

    Are we, as a church failing, now?
    And if we fail NOW, what assurance do we have that we will rally then?

    The next sentence in the quote reads:

    "And at that time the superficial, conservative class, whose influence has steadily retarded the progress of the work, will renounce the faith, and take their stand with its avowed enemies, toward whom their sympathies have long been tending.
    Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 463



    Now, before the crises comes we should be presenting the prophecies and where Sunday legislation will lead -- that it is striking directly against religious liberty.

    Right now the papacy is garnering in a lot of sympathy and support as it is presented more and more as the "key" to bring peace into the world. When the crises erupts and people are looking to the papacy for that peace -- what then will be the general response to a message that says the solution is worse than the problem?

    ""If you have run with the footmen and they have wearied you, then how can you hope to contend with horses? and if in the land of peace wherein you felt secure, you are too weary, then how will you do in the swelling of Jordan?" [Jeremiah 12:5].

    The time of trouble is before us, and if there is lack of courage and ambition now, how will they pass the fearful scenes of that trying hour? {15MR 331.1}


    Now is the time --
    before the emotions of crises
    to outline the fulfilling prophecies


    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176812
    09/12/15 09:42 PM
    09/12/15 09:42 PM
    APL  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: EGW
    ...conservative class, whose influence has steadily retarded the progress of the work ...
    Who are the "conservative class" today? Hm....


    Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176815
    09/12/15 10:25 PM
    09/12/15 10:25 PM
    dedication  Offline
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    "Conservative" in EGW's day had the original meaning of the word, which was a little different from our present day labels of "conservative and liberal".

    Conservative class were the "cautious ones" who didn't want to "upset the status quo" but remain with "traditional ways" and patterns, and ways of doing things.

    That meaning as related to Sunday issues -- would point to the class resisting giving any warning or message relating to the subject of the pope and Sunday laws, as it would "upset" the public and upset things.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176816
    09/12/15 11:23 PM
    09/12/15 11:23 PM
    ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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    Here is a revealing headline from Julie Pace, Associated Press:


    "For GOP candidates, better to be with pope than against him"


    Some gems from the article:

    "I think he's going to lift people's spirits up," (Jeb) Bush said about the pope's visit to the U.S. "We're in a time where there's a lot of vulgarity and a lot of insults and a lot of just coarseness in our discourse. I'm not talking about politics, either. I'm talking about everyday life."

    "And here's a man who comes with a gentle soul and I think it might be really healthy for our country to hear someone speak the way he does."

    (So, the Pope will set the world straight on true morality??)


    "...the timing of the pope's visit — in the heart of fall primary campaigning — and his own schedule will make politics difficult to avoid.

    Francis will hold an Oval Office meeting Sept. 23 with President Barack Obama, who has highlighted areas where his agenda overlaps with the pope's priorities, including income inequality. The pope will speak the following day on Capitol Hill, where at least some of the focus will be on the reaction to his remarks from the presidential candidates sitting in the audience."

    ("FRANCIS WILL HOLD AN OVAL OFFICE MEETING"! Can you hear the deference to the Pope in the tone of the press? Isn't it President Obama's Oval Office? How is it that "FRANCIS WILL HOLD AN OVAL OFFICE MEETING" in Obama's Office??)

    ("...at least some of the focus will be on the reaction to his remarks from the presidential candidates sitting in the audience."
    Does this sound like a veiled threat? Listen to the Pope or no more votes from fans of Francis!)



    Pope Francis knows if he holds the hearts of the voters, he controls the politicians, the nation, and the world.


    "...I will not forget you.
    Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

    Isaiah 49:15-16
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176827
    09/13/15 05:49 AM
    09/13/15 05:49 AM
    dedication  Offline
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    A book "Rome Stoops to Conquer" was written in 1935 by a former Jesuit, Dr. Boyd Barrett.

    On page 3-4 he writes:

    "For him {Pius XI who was pope at the time} our country (America) is a battlefield on which is being waged the greatest struggle of the Church's history. The conquest of America is the supreme objective at which he aims....Pius is well aware that the Catholic church can never hope again to dominate the civilized world until America kneels, beaten and penitent, at her feet."

    Then the last paragraphs on pages 266-267

    "The fight must be fought to a finish-- opposition must be worn down if it cannot be swept away. Rome's immortal destiny hangs on the outcome. That destiny overshadows the land.

    Were Rome to fail to dominate American thought and American lives, her civilization, her moral code, all her glorious incredible dogmas would perish from the earth. Should Rome triumph, she will ascend to a higher state than ever she has enjoyed heretofore. Therefore she must win-- if it be given her to win what, as she claims, God has promised. Then will the vast West be hers wherein to set up anew her earthly kingdom. And in the fight, as she has ever fought when battles were most desperate in the past, Rome will use steel, and gold, and silvery lies. Rome will stoop to conquer."

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176830
    09/13/15 07:11 AM
    09/13/15 07:11 AM
    ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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    I would say things are definitely going Rome's way!


    "...I will not forget you.
    Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

    Isaiah 49:15-16
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: James Peterson] #176839
    09/14/15 02:11 AM
    09/14/15 02:11 AM
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    Alchemy  Offline
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    James Peterson wrote;

    "I am an SDA. But SDA have a great many false doctrines. I only wish to correct those false ideas. One of those false beliefs is that God is VERY angry because some people are worshiping Him on Sundays instead of Saturdays. "The truth will set you free" indeed."

    James, when you say SDA, do you mean Seventh-day Adventist?

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: Mountain Man] #176840
    09/14/15 02:18 AM
    09/14/15 02:18 AM
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    Alchemy  Offline
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    MM wrote;

    "I ask over and over again because you bring it up over and over again. However, you have never truly, clearly answered the question."

    APL simply tries to change the topic of this thread. APL's posts are clearly off topic.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: APL] #176841
    09/14/15 02:20 AM
    09/14/15 02:20 AM
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    Alchemy  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: APL
    Originally Posted By: prodigal
    I chose the screen name ProdigalOne because the Father rejoices and forgives those who turn away from the world and return to Him.
    So, you have to turn to him or else! What would God do to those that to not turn to him? Get mad, then torture and kill you, right?
    Originally Posted By: prodigal
    If the sinner does not turn away from sin and does not seek God, then there can be no forgiveness, no salvation, only fearful waiting for the execution of judgement when the anger of God is expressed. It is the sinner's choice: punishment, or salvation.
    So, turn to Him or He will execute you. Nice. This is, "Love me, or I'll kill you". What draws us to God? The fear of punishment?
    Originally Posted By: prodigal
    Whether we choose deliverance or destruction, the Lord is not to blame for our decisions.
    So we don't hold God responsible when He tortures sinners.
    Originally Posted By: prodigal
    {1MR 207.3} quoted
    Did Christ hit people with His whip?
    Originally Posted By: prodigal
    "...when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple".

    Does it seem to you that Jesus was "angry" at these people who were desecrating His Father's House? It would appear there are things that make Him "lash out at people"!
    Did Christ "lash out at people?" You put this in quotes. Why? Where you quoting something or someone? Christ never hit anyone. What happened right after Christ cleansed the temple? The poor did not flee. The children came to Him. They were not afraid.
    Originally Posted By: prodigal
    "Jesus is the EXACT representation of what God is like. If you have seen Christ, you have seen the Father."

    I agree completely! The quotes above from SOP and John, show that there are times when Jesus; and therefore the Father, is angry with people.
    I don't think you understand what really happened. Did Christ ever hit anyone? Did Christ ever kill anyone? No.

    I know of only place that EGW speaks of God being angry. And that is NOT as you say, those the write Sunday laws. What situation did EGW write this as this is on topic with this thread.

    Originally Posted By: prodigal
    God is supremely patient with His children; however, after humanity has for thousands of years, continually shunned His offer of Grace, there comes a time when there is no repentance left in the race, and His patience runs out.
    Really. What is God's wrath? What is the "wrath of the lamb?" A lamb is a baby sheep. Are they wrathful? Read Romans 1 where His wrath is clearly defined.

    What draws you to God? A fear of punishment?



    APL, ProdigalOne's posts are clear and don't require any further explanation. Please, get back on topic.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176842
    09/14/15 02:27 AM
    09/14/15 02:27 AM
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    Alchemy  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
    By the way folks, as the OP I have to remind everyone the topic is:

    Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video

    Are there any thoughts on this subject?

    There is a lively discussion on the nature of God's justice on the "Global Warming Farce" thread...


    Amen ProdigalOne.

    As for me and many people I believe, I was expecting Sunday to be a major point of Pope Francis I when he came to the USA and especially our Congress. Now, the Pope has given us advanced notice of his agenda! I find it quite bold of the Papacy which reveals just how short time really is.

    I thank God for the video in the OP.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: Daryl] #176843
    09/14/15 02:34 AM
    09/14/15 02:34 AM
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    Alchemy  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: Daryl
    Originally Posted By: James Peterson
    Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
    Mr. James Peterson, or is it Father James Peterson? I have been reading through some of your posts on other threads. It is painfully obvious, you are not a Seventh Day Adventist and you are a "friend" to Seventh Day Adventists in much the same way as a wolf is a "friend" to sheep! You are fully aware of the denominational affiliation and Fundamental Beliefs of the majority of members on this site. Why don't you fill us in on your denomination and beliefs? Remember: "The Truth shall set you free.".

    I am an SDA. But SDA have a great many false doctrines. I only wish to correct those false ideas. One of those false beliefs is that God is VERY angry because some people are worshiping Him on Sundays instead of Saturdays. "The truth will set you free" indeed.

    ///

    Your profile states that you are not a member of the SDA church.


    This really makes it hard to listen to James anymore.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: Mountain Man] #176844
    09/14/15 02:37 AM
    09/14/15 02:37 AM
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    Alchemy  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
    Is the SDA Church ready to meet the Sunday Law Crisis? Will Jesus allow the crisis to play out if the SDA Church is not ready? Is the SDA Church more ready now than ever before? Or, is it more mess up now than ever before?

    Is the World ready for the Sunday Law Crisis? Is it more ready than ever before?


    Excellent questions MM.

    Only time will tell the outcome, but I do believe it is time for the shaking of God's church, ready or not.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176845
    09/14/15 02:46 AM
    09/14/15 02:46 AM
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    Alchemy  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
    Just out of curiosity, did anybody actually watch the video?


    Yes, it was the first time I had heard or seen that video. Although, I had seen the other Amazing Facts video on Revelation 12 and 17.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: daylily] #176846
    09/14/15 02:47 AM
    09/14/15 02:47 AM
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    Originally Posted By: daylily
    I watched it a few weeks ago.

    It seems like every thread on this forum turns into a discussion of James' prophecies or his interpretations of prophecies or the God does not kill beliefs. I got so tired of reading the same arguments over and over and over that I rarely come here now. None of you are going to change the others minds. Why can't we just discuss the topics at hand instead of going back to the same old stuff repeatedly?


    You forgot WOPE. But, your point is valid all the same.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176847
    09/14/15 02:54 AM
    09/14/15 02:54 AM
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    Alchemy  Offline
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    ProdigalOne wrote;

    "The only real question now is what will be the catalyst for the take over and when will it occur, the "event that will fission human history"?"

    Well, it will take many events still from this time now. But, eventually, Satan's personation of Christ's Second Coming will be the final move that brings Babylon to full power.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: Mountain Man] #176848
    09/14/15 03:18 AM
    09/14/15 03:18 AM
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    Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
    Dedication, I suppose there are certain elements the papacy wants to advance in disguise. However, for the most part, the papacy is very open about it desires for world peace. To end the rush of global warming and its devastating effects on man and beast, to stay the heavy hand of God, it is necessary to inspire the world to observe the Sunday Sabbath. So they think. So they say. However, the very opposite is true. Again, when things become Headline News we can be sure the end is near. Until then we have no reason to believe Jesus is more likely to return now than in previous generations.
    (bold emphasis mine)

    Except for that last sentence, I agree.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: dedication] #176849
    09/14/15 03:27 AM
    09/14/15 03:27 AM
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    Originally Posted By: dedication
    A book "Rome Stoops to Conquer" was written in 1935 by a former Jesuit, Dr. Boyd Barrett.

    On page 3-4 he writes:

    "For him {Pius XI who was pope at the time} our country (America) is a battlefield on which is being waged the greatest struggle of the Church's history. The conquest of America is the supreme objective at which he aims....Pius is well aware that the Catholic church can never hope again to dominate the civilized world until America kneels, beaten and penitent, at her feet."

    Then the last paragraphs on pages 266-267

    "The fight must be fought to a finish-- opposition must be worn down if it cannot be swept away. Rome's immortal destiny hangs on the outcome. That destiny overshadows the land.

    Were Rome to fail to dominate American thought and American lives, her civilization, her moral code, all her glorious incredible dogmas would perish from the earth. Should Rome triumph, she will ascend to a higher state than ever she has enjoyed heretofore. Therefore she must win-- if it be given her to win what, as she claims, God has promised. Then will the vast West be hers wherein to set up anew her earthly kingdom. And in the fight, as she has ever fought when battles were most desperate in the past, Rome will use steel, and gold, and silvery lies. Rome will stoop to conquer."


    Wow! Powerful post!

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: Mountain Man] #176892
    09/15/15 09:12 PM
    09/15/15 09:12 PM
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    kland  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
    Again, when things become Headline News we can be sure the end is near. Until then we have no reason to believe Jesus is more likely to return now than in previous generations.
    What exactly do you expect to see in the Headline News? After what Dedication said, why do you think it will be in the Headline News? Do you think she's wrong?

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176894
    09/15/15 11:38 PM
    09/15/15 11:38 PM
    APL  Offline
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    Previously unpublished letter of EGW:

    The world is to be no criterion for us. Great changes are very soon to take place in our world, and the final movements will be rapid ones. Agencies from beneath have been set in operation by the powers of darkness, and they are working in secrecy and have advanced faster than any of us have calculated. Satan, with his whole confederacy of evil, is stirred to intense fervor, and plans that have been made only wait a favorable moment for open development. All things are getting into a state of readiness, and while those who believe have been contending over little matters, drawing apart from each other, each seeking to have and vindicate his own way, the powers of evil have been strengthening for the last great crisis. {Lt21a-1892 1.10}


    Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: APL] #176896
    09/16/15 12:34 AM
    09/16/15 12:34 AM
    dedication  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: APL
    Previously unpublished letter of EGW:

    The world is to be no criterion for us. Great changes are very soon to take place in our world, and the final movements will be rapid ones. Agencies from beneath have been set in operation by the powers of darkness, and they are working in secrecy and have advanced faster than any of us have calculated. Satan, with his whole confederacy of evil, is stirred to intense fervor, and plans that have been made only wait a favorable moment for open development. All things are getting into a state of readiness, and while those who believe have been contending over little matters, drawing apart from each other, each seeking to have and vindicate his own way, the powers of evil have been strengthening for the last great crisis. {Lt21a-1892 1.10}


    That quote is very true!!!

    There are so many things in "readiness" right now to trigger a major melt down of our present society that the whole endtime scenario could be upon us any day, suddenly, with "overwhelming surprise".

    Quote:
    Confusion fills the world, and a great terror is soon to come upon human beings. The end is very near. God's people should be preparing for what is to break upon the world as an overwhelming surprise. {CG 555.2}
    Our time is precious. We have but a few, a very few, days of probation in which to make ready for the future, immortal life. {CG 555.3}

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176900
    09/16/15 12:56 AM
    09/16/15 12:56 AM
    APL  Offline
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    One still have to ask why DB promotes papal ideas on pastors/priests. He is out of bounds on women's ordination promoting ordination in catholic ways. Does he not see it? (obviously)


    Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176904
    09/16/15 03:25 AM
    09/16/15 03:25 AM
    dedication  Offline
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    No man, however famous, (or woman for that matter) has perfect understanding.

    Batchelor is right in seeing the strides the papacy is making on the "worship" issues. He is correctly warning about the "front door" approach of the papal campaign.

    But his zeal against WO has put several blinders on his eyes as he gleaned quite a few of his anti-WO arguments from the Catholic position; and has basically opened a SIDE DOOR, for the papal campaign to enter Adventist.

    As far as I can see -- he hurt his own position by using some "strange" arguments.

    Hopefully he will see where this elevating pastors and calling them priests leads straight into Rome.


    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176909
    09/16/15 04:15 AM
    09/16/15 04:15 AM
    APL  Offline
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    Perhaps Florida was right in putting focus on one who is opening the SIDE DOOR to papal teachings.


    Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: dedication] #176916
    09/16/15 02:01 PM
    09/16/15 02:01 PM
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    kland  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: dedication
    Now GOD IS IN CONTROL and the forces can go no further than He allows -- however the forces ARE focused on THIS MONTH

    SEPTEMBER 2015

    What did the French foreign minister mean when he said back in May 2014: 'We Have 500 Days to Avoid Climate Chaos' (google those words and you can hear him say it)

    The pope confirmed that Sep 24 2015 (in the USA) is very, very relevant, on Feb 5 of this year he told the world that he will speak to congress about ‘climate change’ on Sep 24 2015! The same date! What has the pope got to do with climate change? With the USA government?

    By the way, does anyone know when the U.N. Climate Conference is meeting in Paris?....


    If something was going to happen 565 days in the future, I could not see myself saying "565" days. I may, perhaps, if I were feeling fairly precise, say 550 days. I could very well say over 500 days. Or I may say a little under 600 days. But it would be highly unlikely for me to say 565 days.

    If I were asked how many days were in between two days, I would calculate exactly how many. If I were measuring something, I would also. And I might say "about" 500 days. But if my point was to show how far or how soon something was going to happen, if I were to emphasize how few days there were left, I would not be precise.

    I'm just wondering, could it be possible, that Fabius could view this issue of days much like I do? Is it possible that he didn't really see the precise number of days, didn't really care what the precise number of days were, but he saw it was 5xx days, he wanted to emphasize and urge the uniting together of the U.N. conference to cause enforcement of measures?

    So I don't think anything is going to happen Sep 24 other than the pope promoting climate change in preparation for the conference. It's the conference that will have force to "avoid chaos". (Or start it as the case may be)

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176919
    09/16/15 02:15 PM
    09/16/15 02:15 PM
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    kland  Offline
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    http://www.thedailysheeple.com/french-fo...te-chaos_052014
    The concept of global warming was concocted by an elitist think tank in order to seize the world’s resources and corral everyone under a centralized control grid. The following is from the Club of Rome’s The First Global Revolution 1991 publication, which blatantly admitted that pretexts including global warming were being scripted for public consumption via fairy tales to unite the world in common cause:

    “In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome. The real enemy then, is humanity itself.”

    To unite us? As in, a one-world government? Ya don’t say. Fun fact: the United Nations Agenda 21 Earth Summit in Rio happened the year following this publication (surely just a coincidence, right?).

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176923
    09/17/15 04:07 AM
    09/17/15 04:07 AM
    ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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    Interesting post kland.
    Whatever the truth is concerning global warming it is in fact irrelevant.
    What matters is how the world powers are using it as one of their weapons
    to corral humanity and usher in the end of human freedom.

    Sunday keeping has already been tied to family unity. I wonder how it will be insinuated into the environmental debate? Perhaps as a way of uniting the human family in the battle to save the planet? After all, every army requires a flag to follow.




    "...I will not forget you.
    Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

    Isaiah 49:15-16
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: kland] #176968
    09/20/15 04:16 AM
    09/20/15 04:16 AM
    dedication  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: kland



    By the way, does anyone know when the U.N. Climate Conference is meeting in Paris?....


    May 12,2014 French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said "“We have 500 days to avoid climate chaos,”

    That takes us to Sept. 24, 2015


    The United Nations Climate Change Conference, COP21 will be held in Paris, France in 2015, at the Le Bourget site from November 30 to December 11, 2015.

    That's another 65 or so days later.

    The 500 days point to the pope's appearance in America.

    You will see by the Pope's schedule that he is taking in BOTH
    -- Climate Change Conference and
    -- Family Conference

    Sept. 24 Thursday morning, the pope will make the first-ever address to the U.S. Congress in Washington D.C.
    Sept. 25 Friday morning Pope addresses the United Nations General Assembly in New York where he is expected to discuss climate change
    Sept. 26 Saturday, the pope is in Philadelphia, to attend the Festival of Families at Benjamin Franklin Parkway and hold a Prayer Vigil with World Meeting of Families (WMOF) at 7:30 p.m. EDT.
    Sept. 27 Sunday afternoon, still in Philadelphia, there will be a papal parade before Pope flies back to Rome Sunday evening.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #176975
    09/20/15 07:41 AM
    09/20/15 07:41 AM
    ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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    Makes one wonder, what does Minister Fabius know about the Pope's congressional speech that the rest of us do not? Are his words some sort of cryptic acknowledgement of the assumption of Papal authority?


    "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." Matthew 24:34


    "...I will not forget you.
    Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

    Isaiah 49:15-16
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #177006
    09/21/15 03:21 PM
    09/21/15 03:21 PM
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    kland  Offline
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    What the pope says at congress is one thing.

    What Fabius was talking about was the climate change in Paris. About 500 days away from when he said it. That if they do nothing at the climate change conference, we will have disaster. So we had 500 days to avoid it.

    The pope is another issue. One, no doubt, to promote climate change at congress for the Paris conference to ensure evil gets its way. Promoting climate change and, of course, other things on his agenda.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #177012
    09/22/15 06:46 AM
    09/22/15 06:46 AM
    ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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    You may be right. It is interesting though, that the Pope's congressional address is exactly to the day of Minister Fabius' warning. Of course, he could have been rounding the number down to 500. Time will tell...


    "...I will not forget you.
    Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

    Isaiah 49:15-16
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #177015
    09/22/15 06:25 PM
    09/22/15 06:25 PM
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    daylily  Offline
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    This post was a comment on a homesteading blog that I read sometimes. I thought it was quite interesting!

    Anonymous September 21, 2015 at 1:00 PM

    The Pope's Visit and the Collapse
    09/03/2015
    Mary, the Mother of Jesus speaks to Mankind:

    I cannot say that the economic collapse is distant when really it is near, or that it will be short when really it will be long, or that it will be easy, when really it will be quite difficult. Only truth gives the light needed for hope. So, I will now speak words of truth.

    This collapse has been a long time in coming, preceded by many incidents that should have awakened the world. God is not the cause of the collapse and the collapse is not a divine chastisement. The collapse comes because of man’s free will and the choices he has made. The collapse has no purpose. It results from purposeless decisions made from self-interest.

    The collapse will not come before Pope Francis comes to America but it will happen while he is in America. I deliberately brought the Pope to America, the world’s financial center, to be here when it takes place. I want him to be part of the picture. I want him to be present. His presence in America will be my sign that the Church is very important in saving mankind from its own follies. Toward the end of his trip, he will have to shift his message and address the new world situation. In this way, I will begin to exalt the Church as a beacon of light in the darkness.

    During September, Congress will be voting on the Iran treaty. Terrorism and economic difficulties are the twin evils which will mark the years ahead. All of these good and evil forces, papacy, economic collapse and nuclear war will be merged in a single unforgettable moment, as they all come together in September, 2015.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #177029
    09/23/15 05:53 AM
    09/23/15 05:53 AM
    ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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    Daylily, this is fascinating!
    I wonder if any other "messages" from Mary, regarding Francis' US visit, have been circulating?




    "...I will not forget you.
    Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

    Isaiah 49:15-16
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #177030
    09/23/15 06:00 AM
    09/23/15 06:00 AM
    ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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    I see President Obama and family greeted Pope Francis at the airport today.

    Does the President and family, usually meet foreign dignitaries at the airport?
    Hmmm


    "...I will not forget you.
    Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

    Isaiah 49:15-16
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #177034
    09/23/15 10:15 AM
    09/23/15 10:15 AM
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    daylily  Offline
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    I thought that "message" was pretty interesting too!

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #177050
    09/24/15 03:20 AM
    09/24/15 03:20 AM
    His child  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne

    I see President Obama and family greeted Pope Francis at the airport today.

    Does the President and family, usually meet foreign dignitaries at the airport?
    Hmmm


    They did not meet the President of China. He arrived in Seattle today and was totally upstaged by the pope.

    FYI: I updated my 7 popes video to coincide with Francis' visit

    https://youtu.be/lRoKr7iB8W8

    (My computer is ill so my tablet had to do all the work and it is obvious with the audio)


    "Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #177052
    09/24/15 05:25 AM
    09/24/15 05:25 AM
    ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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    Wow! That's right, talk about being upstaged! I completely forgot about the Chinese president's visit. I guess China doesn't make or break political careers the way Rome does...


    "...I will not forget you.
    Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

    Isaiah 49:15-16
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: daylily] #177069
    09/25/15 01:41 AM
    09/25/15 01:41 AM
    Daryl  Offline

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    I googled this but can't find anything.

    Originally Posted By: daylily
    This post was a comment on a homesteading blog that I read sometimes. I thought it was quite interesting!

    Anonymous September 21, 2015 at 1:00 PM

    The Pope's Visit and the Collapse
    09/03/2015
    Mary, the Mother of Jesus speaks to Mankind:

    I cannot say that the economic collapse is distant when really it is near, or that it will be short when really it will be long, or that it will be easy, when really it will be quite difficult. Only truth gives the light needed for hope. So, I will now speak words of truth.

    This collapse has been a long time in coming, preceded by many incidents that should have awakened the world. God is not the cause of the collapse and the collapse is not a divine chastisement. The collapse comes because of man’s free will and the choices he has made. The collapse has no purpose. It results from purposeless decisions made from self-interest.

    The collapse will not come before Pope Francis comes to America but it will happen while he is in America. I deliberately brought the Pope to America, the world’s financial center, to be here when it takes place. I want him to be part of the picture. I want him to be present. His presence in America will be my sign that the Church is very important in saving mankind from its own follies. Toward the end of his trip, he will have to shift his message and address the new world situation. In this way, I will begin to exalt the Church as a beacon of light in the darkness.

    During September, Congress will be voting on the Iran treaty. Terrorism and economic difficulties are the twin evils which will mark the years ahead. All of these good and evil forces, papacy, economic collapse and nuclear war will be merged in a single unforgettable moment, as they all come together in September, 2015.


    In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

    Daryl smile

    John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

    http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #177071
    09/25/15 07:38 AM
    09/25/15 07:38 AM
    ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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    I found it on a site called Locutions to the World.
    Here is the link:


    http://locutions.org/2015/09/3-the-popes-visit-and-the-collapse/


    "...I will not forget you.
    Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

    Isaiah 49:15-16
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #177074
    09/25/15 08:15 AM
    09/25/15 08:15 AM
    ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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    Apparently, the "locutions" or auditory messages from "Mary" have been received by an anonymous American woman and delivered to the public via her priest.

    Here is an excerpt from the website "Mystics of the Church":


    "A little background info on "Locutions to the World"
    The purported heavenly messages date back to December 10, 2010. For the first few years, they were vetted by a prominent and well respected Catholic priest named Monsignor John Essef, a diocesan priest of Scranton, PA., who was a spiritual director for Mother Teresa of Calcutta. Up until recently, the following statement from Monsignor Essef was published on the Locutions.org website:
    "For many years, I have been director for a special soul. Five years ago, Jesus and Mary began to speak to this soul through the gift of locutions (as described by John of the Cross). These locutions now total over 800. I have discerned the validity of these locutions. Until now, these locutions were personal teachings given for the small community that gathered in prayer. Beginning on December 10, 2010, a new phase began, namely, some locutions were to be told to the whole world...."



    Here is the link to the rest of the article:

    http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2015/09/locutions-to-world-false-visionary.html



    "...I will not forget you.
    Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

    Isaiah 49:15-16
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #177084
    09/25/15 06:37 PM
    09/25/15 06:37 PM
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    daylily  Offline
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    Thanks for tracking that down. I had wondered where it originated from but didn't know how to even begin to find out!

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #177113
    09/26/15 05:12 AM
    09/26/15 05:12 AM
    ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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    My pleasure, daylily!


    "...I will not forget you.
    Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

    Isaiah 49:15-16
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #177114
    09/26/15 05:13 AM
    09/26/15 05:13 AM
    ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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    "Toward the end of his trip, he will have to shift his message and address the new world situation."


    If this message from "Mary" is a sign of a new, even more aggressive, leadership role for the papacy, we should see big things happening before Monday.

    It certainly would go a long way toward validating these "messages from beyond",
    as well as preparing the world for the prophesied increase in the influence of Spiritualism...


    "...I will not forget you.
    Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

    Isaiah 49:15-16
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #177115
    09/26/15 05:33 AM
    09/26/15 05:33 AM
    ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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    It certainly is an amazing coincidence that John Boehner chose the time of the Popes' visit to resign as Speaker of the House. I wonder if it means anything...

    Ever heard of what rats do when a ship is sinking?


    "...I will not forget you.
    Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

    Isaiah 49:15-16
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #177123
    09/26/15 12:16 PM
    09/26/15 12:16 PM
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    daylily  Offline
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    Hmmm...something to think about!

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #177131
    09/26/15 05:50 PM
    09/26/15 05:50 PM
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    Charity  Offline
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    Unless the Pope is unexpectedly delayed, he is scheduled to return to Rome tomorrow evening, Sunday, before the markets reopen, so he'll miss the market collapse predicted by the "locutions" of the Scranton PA parishioner. We'll see by tomorrow evening if the Pope returns and by Monday evening what the market does. I don't expect a major crash Monday but it's possible. I think a financial decline is coming soon.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #177134
    09/26/15 08:54 PM
    09/26/15 08:54 PM
    ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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    "All of these good and evil forces, papacy, economic collapse and nuclear war will be merged in a single unforgettable moment, as they all come together in September, 2015."

    Something like, terrorists setting off a nuclear bomb would pretty much do the trick, regardless of what day. Let's hope this "prophesy" is not presaging such an event!


    "...I will not forget you.
    Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

    Isaiah 49:15-16
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #177136
    09/27/15 12:56 AM
    09/27/15 12:56 AM
    J
    James Peterson  Offline
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    ***

    Tell SDA the truth, they rebel and throw you out even to seek your life. But prophesy falsely, and they take you into their arms, thorns and all. It's like watching a man sink deeper and deeper into the quicksand of his own vanity.

    ***

    What does Jeremiah say? "The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?" (5:31) Truly, they are a people whose mother is GREAT DISAPPOINTMENT and whose grave is covered with BITTERNESS. At noon day, they stumble through the tunnel of their darkness saying one to another, "Please, shine the lamp, that lesser light, that I may see!"

    ///

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: James Peterson] #177139
    09/28/15 01:08 AM
    09/28/15 01:08 AM
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    Alchemy  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: James Peterson
    ***

    Tell SDA the truth, they rebel and throw you out even to seek your life. But prophesy falsely, and they take you into their arms, thorns and all. It's like watching a man sink deeper and deeper into the quicksand of his own vanity.

    ***

    What does Jeremiah say? "The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?" (5:31) Truly, they are a people whose mother is GREAT DISAPPOINTMENT and whose grave is covered with BITTERNESS. At noon day, they stumble through the tunnel of their darkness saying one to another, "Please, shine the lamp, that lesser light, that I may see!"

    ///


    Blessings James,

    You wrote; Tell SDA the truth, they rebel and throw you out even to seek your life."

    You work very hard at provoking SDA's just so you can blame us for nothing. Rarely have you spoken truth in this board and this statement is a perfect example. Unless you can back this up with substantiated example, you are simply bringing a false witness against us.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: Alchemy] #177140
    09/28/15 02:28 AM
    09/28/15 02:28 AM
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    James Peterson  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: Alchemy
    Blessings James,

    You wrote; Tell SDA the truth, they rebel and throw you out even to seek your life." You work very hard at provoking SDA's just so you can blame us for nothing. Rarely have you spoken truth in this board and this statement is a perfect example. Unless you can back this up with substantiated example, you are simply bringing a false witness against us.

    It's a prophecy (2 Tim. 4:1-8).

    ///

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #177143
    09/28/15 10:00 AM
    09/28/15 10:00 AM
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    Alchemy  Offline
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    I am glad to see all these predictions from Jonathan Cann and Locutions turned out to be false.

    I must say I'm not surprised. I actually forgot about those from Jonathan Cann until Pope Francis was almost here.

    Remember, Satan and his beast powers are not in control, God is.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: James Peterson] #177144
    09/28/15 01:37 PM
    09/28/15 01:37 PM
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    kland  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: James Peterson
    Originally Posted By: Alchemy
    Blessings James,

    You wrote; Tell SDA the truth, they rebel and throw you out even to seek your life." You work very hard at provoking SDA's just so you can blame us for nothing. Rarely have you spoken truth in this board and this statement is a perfect example. Unless you can back this up with substantiated example, you are simply bringing a false witness against us.

    It's a prophecy (2 Tim. 4:1-8).

    ///
    How does this mean SDAs? Who is not enduring sound doctrine, who has given it, who has given truth?

    Or are you trying to say you are departing?

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: kland] #177145
    09/28/15 06:04 PM
    09/28/15 06:04 PM
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    James Peterson  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: kland
    Originally Posted By: James Peterson
    It's a prophecy (2 Tim. 4:1-8).

    1. How does this mean SDAs? Who is not enduring sound doctrine, who has given it, who has given truth?
    2. Or are you trying to say you are departing?

    1. Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. (Mat. 24-9-12)

    Reference? Alchemy wrote, "I am glad to see all these predictions from Jonathan Cann and Locutions turned out to be false. I must say I'm not surprised. I actually forgot about those from Jonathan Cann until Pope Francis was almost here. Remember, Satan and his beast powers are not in control, God is."

    ///

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #177150
    09/29/15 01:51 PM
    09/29/15 01:51 PM
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    kland  Offline
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    However, that reference to Alchemy was after you said that.

    And who of SDAs are trying to deliver you up and to kill you or anyone else?

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: kland] #177153
    09/29/15 07:53 PM
    09/29/15 07:53 PM
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    James Peterson  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: kland
    However, that reference to Alchemy was after you said that. And who of SDAs are trying to deliver you up and to kill you or anyone else?

    I knew someone honest enough was going to say something like that before he said it. And as I said, it was a prophecy.

    ///

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #177157
    09/30/15 03:26 AM
    09/30/15 03:26 AM
    ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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    As the OP, I respectfully request that we stick to the topic: "Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda".

    The main purpose of those who espouse the principles of Catholic trolls is to divert and distract, to sew discord and doubt. Let us not allow them to succeed!
    Let us not be diverted from a discussion that is both fruitfull and timely.
    Jesus commanded us to "watch". Let us continue to share what we see!


    "...I will not forget you.
    Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

    Isaiah 49:15-16
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: Alchemy] #177158
    09/30/15 04:10 AM
    09/30/15 04:10 AM
    ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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    Originally Posted By: Alchemy
    I am glad to see all these predictions from Jonathan Cann and Locutions turned out to be false.

    I must say I'm not surprised. I actually forgot about those from Jonathan Cann until Pope Francis was almost here.

    Remember, Satan and his beast powers are not in control, God is.



    Amen Alchemy! God is definitely in control.


    Since the powers of darkness are prophesied to perform "miracles" (Revelation 16:13) and utter false prophesies (The False Prophet), does anyone have an opinion of how much attention we should give to these messages from "Mary"?

    It would seem that some of them must contain a kernel of true prediction, or else how will they be employed to deceive so many souls?

    The False Prophet being the Protestant/American wing of the unholy triad, perhaps the main deceptions will take the form of the pseudo-holy spirit movement that has been burning its way through a large number of denominations.

    It does seem that "Mary" possesses attributes that unite the Dragon, the Beast, and the False Prophet: being one of the dead who speaks, she embodies Spiritualism, usurping the intercessory role of Jesus she is the very soul of the Catholic AntiChrist, imparting prophesy she assumes the role of the Holy Spirit, who is glorified by the emotion worshipping Protestant churches above even the Father and Son.


    Such occurrences appear to have much potential to influence how the Sunday law is implemented. I am grateful to daylily for bringing this "prophesy" to our attention.






    "...I will not forget you.
    Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

    Isaiah 49:15-16
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #177160
    09/30/15 05:00 AM
    09/30/15 05:00 AM
    APL  Offline
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    Quote:
    Remember, Satan and his beast powers are not in control, God is.
    Except when Satan is in control.

    We cannot know how much we owe to Christ for the peace and protection which we enjoy. It is the restraining power of God that prevents mankind from passing fully under the control of Satan. {GC 36.1}

    The gospel is a message of peace. Christianity is a system which, received and obeyed, would spread peace, harmony, and happiness throughout the earth. The religion of Christ will unite in close brotherhood all who accept its teachings. It was the mission of Jesus to reconcile men to God, and thus to one another.
    But the world at large are under the control of Satan, Christ's bitterest foe. {GC 46.3}

    As the defenders of truth refuse to honor the Sunday-sabbath, some of them will be thrust into prison, some will be exiled, some will be treated as slaves. To human wisdom all this now seems impossible; but
    as the restraining Spirit of God shall be withdrawn from men, and they shall be under the control of Satan, who hates the divine precepts, there will be strange developments. The heart can be very cruel when God's fear and love are removed. {GC 608.1}

    When God's presence was finally withdrawn from the Jewish nation, priests and people knew it not.
    Though under the control of Satan, and swayed by the most horrible and malignant passions, they still regarded themselves as the chosen of God. {GC 615.1}

    There is a common thread here...


    Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #177167
    09/30/15 11:40 AM
    09/30/15 11:40 AM
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    daylily  Offline
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    We don't know what went on behind the scenes. We know that these false prophecies coming from "Mary" originate with Satan. I imagine that he tried very hard to bring about some disaster but God would not allow it at this time. There will come a time when "Mary" will be accurate.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: daylily] #177168
    09/30/15 12:25 PM
    09/30/15 12:25 PM
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    Elle  Offline
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    So you guys believe in False Prophets! smile

    Many receives or heard the true word of God..... but most "prophets"(or hearer of the word) do not understand the word received because the interpretation often(@90%+ of the time) doesn't come with the word. That's were most hearers do the mistakes because they add their own interpretation to the word received. This doesn't mean that these individuals didn't receive the true word of God from the beginning nor does that make them false prophets.

    I believe the Lord speaks to many but few received the interpretation of what was said. Also our "heart idols"(teachings of men) can distort what was heard. All men has heart idols .... we need to learn to identify them and put them aside.

    We see this same things so often in this forums and all forums with many individuals who add to scriptures to validate their interpretation. Does that make them "false prophets"? Yes and no. There's a learning curve and I'm sure that all prophets in the Bible were "false prophets" at the beginning of their ministry and had to learn via the Lord's corrections to only speak the word heard without adding or substracting to it.

    I believe the Lord spoke to Jonathan Cahn at many times. Just because Jonathan added to the word he heard... doesn't make what he heard false nor does it make him a "false prophet".


    Blessings
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #177169
    09/30/15 02:18 PM
    09/30/15 02:18 PM
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    daylily  Offline
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    Hmm...why do you say that?

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: James Peterson] #178332
    11/21/15 04:54 AM
    11/21/15 04:54 AM
    jamesonofthunder  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: James Peterson
    Originally Posted By: kland
    However, that reference to Alchemy was after you said that. And who of SDAs are trying to deliver you up and to kill you or anyone else?

    I knew someone honest enough was going to say something like that before he said it. And as I said, it was a prophecy.

    ///


    Everyone listen Mr James Peterson is claiming the Spirit of Prophecy. ***** STAFF EDIT *****

    Last edited by Daryl; 11/21/15 11:49 PM. Reason: Removed inappropriate content.

    Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
    (NA) Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #178355
    11/21/15 11:50 PM
    11/21/15 11:50 PM
    Daryl  Offline

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    ADMIN HAT ON!!!!!

    As I am no longer tolerating these type of posts against other users here, I am removing all posts that are directed to each other and not to the thread topic.

    If these type of posts continues, those posting them will be banned for one week.

    Also, as the OP requested, please stick to the topic of this thread.

    ADMIN HAT OFF!!!!!


    In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

    Daryl smile

    John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

    http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: jamesonofthunder] #178505
    11/26/15 10:18 PM
    11/26/15 10:18 PM
    J
    James Peterson  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder
    Originally Posted By: James Peterson
    I knew someone honest enough was going to say something like that before he said it. And as I said, it was a prophecy.

    Everyone listen Mr James Peterson is claiming the Spirit of Prophecy. ***** STAFF EDIT *****

    It's a pity that Daryl replaced your inappropriate content. I would have liked to read it.

    The Spirit of Prophecy is the Testimony of Jesus Christ (which God gave Him to show His servants through His Angel), i.e. the Spirit of Prophecy refers to the Book of Revelation. I am not John, its author; but I know many who palm off their work as if they were John even in the face of the dire warning of Rev. 22:18.

    Instead, I honour the prophets by quoting them appropriately.

    ///

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #178927
    01/05/16 02:01 PM
    01/05/16 02:01 PM
    K
    kland  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: kland
    What the pope says at congress is one thing.

    What Fabius was talking about was the climate change in Paris. About 500 days away from when he said it. That if they do nothing at the climate change conference, we will have disaster. So we had 500 days to avoid it.

    The pope is another issue. One, no doubt, to promote climate change at congress for the Paris conference to ensure evil gets its way. Promoting climate change and, of course, other things on his agenda.
    Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
    You may be right. It is interesting though, that the Pope's congressional address is exactly to the day of Minister Fabius' warning. Of course, he could have been rounding the number down to 500. Time will tell...
    I guess we're satisfied time did tell?

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #179575
    02/29/16 05:40 PM
    02/29/16 05:40 PM
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    kland  Offline
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    Supporting what Fabius may have meant is no more than what has been repeated and repeated in the past: Last chance!
    http://climatechangepredictions.org/category/last_chance
    2001, 2005, ...2015 The UN meeting in December is “the last chance” to avert dangerous climate change, according to the Earth League.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #179749
    03/12/16 05:01 PM
    03/12/16 05:01 PM
    A
    Alchemy  Offline
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    An excellent message from Pastor Doug. I hope we listen, watch and pray.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #179753
    03/12/16 09:34 PM
    03/12/16 09:34 PM
    ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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    Amen! Let us also pray that God will open doors within our own Church for Pastor Doug and all of those who do the Lord's will. What happened in Florida last year was a shameful reflection of how susceptible much of Seventh Day Adventism is to the divisive influence of Satan.

    We must NOT allow internal dissent to interfere with our sacred mission.


    "...I will not forget you.
    Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

    Isaiah 49:15-16
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #179788
    03/14/16 11:45 AM
    03/14/16 11:45 AM
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    Elle  Offline
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    I went to the US Congress Library(online) for the first time last week to try to check if the public law 102-14 was really there concerning the 7 Noahide laws. (see [url=http://www.maritime-sda-online.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=8681&Number=179710#Post179710]Post link[/url)

    A thorough investigation is what the Lord requires us to do before we say this is so or not. Anyway, while I was there the thought to check if the Sunday law was there came to my mind. I mean I have heard this for nearly 30 years in the Church; but I never read or seen any document or have I ever checked if there was such documents.

    I had 0 records found on my search on "Sunday Law" in the Library of Congress. Whereas the "Noahide" or "Noahides" there were nearly 100 hits. However there were no public law 102-14 passed in congress concerning the Noahide laws as the article I have read were claiming.

    Does anyone know where this "Sunday Law" is? I would like to read it and see how valid it is.


    Blessings
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #179799
    03/14/16 10:06 PM
    03/14/16 10:06 PM
    ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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    The Sunday laws presently in effect in the USA and other countries are categorized mainly as Blue Laws.


    Wikipedia - Blue Law

    "Blue laws, also known as Sunday laws, are laws designed to restrict or ban some or all Sunday activities for religious reasons, particularly to promote the observance of a day of worship or rest. Blue laws may also restrict shopping or ban sale of certain items on specific days, most often on Sundays in the western world. Some Islamic nations may ban on Fridays. Blue laws are enforced in parts of the United States and Canada as well as some European countries, particularly in Austria, Germany, Switzerland, and Norway, keeping most stores closed on Sundays."

    "In the United States, the U.S. Supreme Court has held blue laws as constitutional numerous times citing secular basis, even though the origin of the blue laws were for religious purposes. Blue laws are technically classed as "mala prohibita" or "wrong [as or because] prohibited" (as opposed to "mala in se" or "wrong or evil in itself"). Most blue laws have been repealed in the United States, although many states still ban the sale of alcoholic beverages or cars on Sundays. Bergen County, New Jersey is notable for their blue laws banning the sale of clothing, shoes, furniture, home supplies and appliances on Sundays kept through county-wide referendum."

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law


    The Sunday Law that is prophesied to be enacted by the False Prophet of Revelation is in the future. While the Papacy is agressively campaigning for a worldwide Sunday Law it has not been implemented, yet...


    "...I will not forget you.
    Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

    Isaiah 49:15-16
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #179801
    03/14/16 10:36 PM
    03/14/16 10:36 PM
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    Elle  Offline
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    Thank You ProdigalOne. That will help my research.


    Blessings
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #179881
    03/18/16 05:43 AM
    03/18/16 05:43 AM
    dedication  Offline
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    Annotation 4 -First Amendment

    Quote:
    Sunday Closing Laws .--The history of Sunday Closing Laws goes back into United States colonial history and far back into English history. 144 Commonly, the laws require the observance of the Christian Sabbath as a day of rest, although in recent years they have tended to become honeycombed with exceptions. The Supreme Court rejected an Establishment Clause challenge to Sunday Closing Laws in McGowan v. Maryland. 145 The Court acknowledged that historically the laws had a religious motivation and were designed to effectuate concepts of Christian theology. However, ''[i]n light of the evolution of our Sunday Closing Laws through the centuries, and of their more or less recent emphasis upon secular considerations, it is not difficult to discern that as presently written and administered, most of them, at least, are of a secular rather than of a religious character, and that presently they bear no relationship to establishment of religion. . . .'' 146 ''[T]he fact that this [prescribed day of rest] is Sunday, a day of particular significance for the dominant Christian sects, does not bar the State from achieving its secular goals. To say that the States cannot prescribe Sunday as a day of rest for these purposes solely because centuries ago such laws had their genesis in religion would give a constitutional interpretation of hostility to the public welfare rather than one of mere separation of church and State.'' 147 The choice of Sunday as the day of rest, while originally religious, now reflected simple legislative inertia or recognition that Sunday was a traditional day for the choice. 148 Valid secular reasons existed for not simply requiring one day of rest and leaving to each individual to choose the day, reasons of ease of enforcement and of assuring a common day in the community for rest and leisure. 149 More recently, a state statute mandating that employers honor the Sabbath day of the employee's choice was held invalid as having the primary effect of promoting religion by weighing the employee's Sabbath choice over all other interests. 150 Source

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: dedication] #179886
    03/18/16 12:29 PM
    03/18/16 12:29 PM
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    Elle  Offline
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    Tx dedication for pointing me to this website and to find some annotation to the 1st amendment that mentions the Sunday Law.

    Is this a law per se? Sorry, but I haven't had a chance to follow up on the Blue laws either. So right now I have more questions than answers.

    Can someone explain to me what is the difference between the laws registered in the US Congress library by which does not have this document in it, and this site? Does this site register any laws? Is there multiple places where the countries laws are registered?


    Blessings
    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #179902
    03/19/16 03:17 AM
    03/19/16 03:17 AM
    dedication  Offline
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    The site presents court cases. How the courts interpret the law in dealing with cases that appeal to law.

    For example, as per the Sunday debates, where Jews appealed to certain laws seeking exemption from Sunday closing laws.

    United States Supreme Court

    BRAUNFELD v. BROWN, (1961)

    No. 67

    Argued: December 8, 1960 Decided: May 29, 1961
    - See here

    Quote:
    Appellants are members of the Orthodox Jewish Faith, which requires the closing of their places of business and total abstention from all manner of work from nightfall each Friday until nightfall each Saturday. As merchants engaged in the retail sale of clothing and home furnishings in Philadelphia, they sued to enjoin enforcement of a 1959 Pennsylvania criminal statute which forbade the retail sale on Sundays of those commodities and other specified commodities. They claimed that the statute violated the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment and constituted a law respecting an establishment of religion and that it interfered with the free exercise of their religion by imposing serious economic disadvantages upon them, if they adhere to the observance of their Sabbath, and that it would operate so as to hinder the Orthodox Jewish Faith in gaining new members. Held: The statute does not violate the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment nor constitute a law respecting an establishment of religion. Two Guys from Harrison-Allentown, Inc., v. McGinley, ante, p. 582; and it does not prohibit the free exercise of appellants' religion, within the meaning of the First Amendment, made applicable to the States by the Fourteenth Amendment. Pp. 600-610. - See more at: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/366/599.html#sthash.bMX88PJA.dpuf


    It was stated in that court decision dealing with their case, that sunday closing laws were not unconstitutional on the bases that even though "they may well result in some financial sacrifice in order to observe their religious beliefs, still the option is wholly different than when the legislation attempts to make a religious practice itself unlawful."

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: dedication] #181415
    09/12/16 08:07 PM
    09/12/16 08:07 PM
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    kland  Offline
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    Originally Posted By: dedication

    May 12,2014 French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said "“We have 500 days to avoid climate chaos,”

    That takes us to Sept. 24, 2015

    We have 40 days to avoid national collapse.

    Re: Pope's Imminent Sunday Law Agenda: Video-Doug Batchelor [Re: ProdigalOne] #181566
    10/04/16 08:56 PM
    10/04/16 08:56 PM
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    kland  Offline
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    We have 1/2 day to avoid world collapse.

    We should pray that those who are about to make choices use reason and logic instead of hysteria regarding air.

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    as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
    from the local church level to the General Conference level.

    Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
    and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
    The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
    or any of its subsidiaries.

    "And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
    MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
    OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
    INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
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