Continuing, by whom?
By whom are you personally urging separation?

Generally, I believe the SDA Church has the right to protect its integrity, even by disfellowshipping someone if needed.

Yet, the church has allowed so much confusion into the body now, I don't see how the church can justify such an action these days.

Do you believe me? Or, do you think I want to personally take it upon myself to separate the tares from the wheat?

I don't understand your questions. Please rephrase them. Thank you.

Alchemy, I agree. Things have go on for too long. Too many congregations have tolerated too many open sins. Eventually Jesus will shake the church. Only true, dedicated SDA will remain to proclaim the 3AM. Those members and leaders who reject fundamental beliefs will go out and join the ranks of opposition. The time to pray for them is - NOW. The time to work to save them from ruin is - NOW.

Very good explanation and contrast of the two texts. I agree with it.

There's a difference between disciplining for immoral practice like pedophilia versus disciplining for FB beliefs. Most biblical texts talks about disciplining for immorality and not for Fundamental beliefs.

Fundamental Beliefs(FBs) are like foundational stones(=truth=Jesus) that you build a house(Church) upon. These foundational stones are to be solid to hold the house up forever.

The problem is that we(the Church) are still suppose to be wondering in the desert and living in TENTS (Sukkah) and NOT in Houses. Houses were build only when the church entered the promised land. We are still NOT in the promise land THUS we are to live in TENTS if we want to follow the pillar of cloud and fire.

When the pillar is ready to move, we need to be able to pack up quickly to follow it so to learn our nest lesson prepared by the Lord. These lessons are how we learn about the Lords ways(laws) and come to know His mind. That's how our view of Him and undersding changes as He teaches us. That's the reason why we are not to make the foundational stones yet as they might have to be adjusted by the Lord. We are still in the learning and sanctification process.

There's a time to build houses upon FBs, it will be soon, but it wasn't time in the past as we were still wondering in the wilderness.

Desmond Ford, as Wagonner, and others SDA pioneers that shared new understanding that would of corrected our previous position; however, they were cast out of Church (disciplined). This is the same spirit manifested by King Saul and the RCC church who both persecuted their own people. King Saul couldn't tell the difference between the evil spirit and God's voice as both came from the Lord. King Saul persecuted David for 12 years and many were killed by Saul, the annointed man from God who prophesied. The annointed of the Holy Spirit can wear off and the man/mind that is left is carnal.

Elle, there is a huge difference between the following two types of people:

1) SDA members and leaders who understand and reject fundamental SDA beliefs and actively work to persuade other SDA to join them in their efforts to tear down fundamental SDA beliefs.

2) SDA members and leaders who understand fundamental SDA beliefs and consciously choose not to use their God-given gifts and talents to build up the body of Christ.

The first type of people require discipline. The second type of people need prayer and careful encouragement.

PS - The fundamental SDA beliefs address morality. It's a huge part.

"They [Synagogue of the Freedmen] also set up false witnesses who said, This man [Stephen] does not cease to speak blasphemous words against this holy place and the law; for we have heard him say that this Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and change the customs which Moses delivered to us." (Acts 6:13-14)

And this is what they did to him: "They cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; and they cast him out of the city and stoned him." (7:57-58)

History just keeps on repeating itself, doesn't it?

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James, can you imagine the chaos if the SDA Church tolerated its members and leaders insisting Jesus is not the one and only source of salvation, that salvation is also available through animism, hinduism, buddhism, humanism, judaism, catholicism, etc? And, can you imagine the chaos if the SDA Church tolerated its members and leaders insisting the Seventh-day is not the one and only Sabbath day recognized and required by God, that any day, all days are a Sabbath unto God? Eventually the truth as it is in Jesus must matter. Eventually it must be defended as worthy of allegiance. The idea that it doesn't matter now is blasphemous.

Similarly, can you imagine the chaos if the USA or Canada tolerated its citizens insisting citizenship doesn't matter, that any one can claim citizenship, that everyone is entitled to the benefits of citizenship? Eventually citizenship must matter. Eventually it must be defended as worthy of allegiance. The idea that citizenship doesn't matter is traitorous.

I reject your idea that fundamental beliefs don't matter now. I reject your idea that it doesn't matter what SDA Church members and leaders believe now. The truth as it is in Jesus matters very much. Our salvation depends on it. I reject your idea that fundamental beliefs cannot be known with certainty now, that they are evolving and uncertain, that they are subject to change, that we must be tentative, flexible, open-minded. Our status and standing as the Remnant Church of God hinges on us practicing and boldly proclaiming the truth as it is in Jesus.

Knowledge is progressive. Those that have locked themselves into an ivory tower and thrown away the key are prisoners, not free. They are not children of light. The woman at the well understood this and Jesus enlightened her.

The woman said to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming" (who is called Christ). "When He comes, He will tell us all things." Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am He." (John 4:25-26) But before this, he told her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." (4:21-24)

What does it mean to worship God "in spirit and truth", because God is seeking such to worship Him? Notice the radical change in fundamental belief, the obligation placed on her to confirm to the new word of truth. Should she have "disciplined Jesus"? NO, but rather, as I said, knowledge IS progressive; and God has not given us a Spirit of fear "but of love, of power and of a sound mind."

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