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Christ, Human and Divine #176955
09/19/15 07:46 PM
09/19/15 07:46 PM
dedication  Online Content OP
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,430
Canada
This thread springs from another thread where the subject came up whether women being in subjection to men is inequality.

This argument dealing with Christ and the Godhead deserves a thread of its own.


Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne


By the way, Jesus role in the Godhead is that of the Son, a son must submit to his father. Does this make Jesus inferior to the Father in your eyes? Are the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit not equal, while fulfilling different roles?


Originally Posted By: dedication
There was and is no conflict of will in the Godhead.
Thus there was no need of submission.

The argument that Christ must submit to the will of God reduces the Divinity of Christ and assumes His will is in conflict with God's will.
Hardly a concept of equality.

"Texts used to support the above argument do not refer to Christ in His Divinity, but refer to the time when Christ took on humanity --
In His humanity He depended upon God the Father, as all humans need to depend upon God. It was His humanity that was in total submission to the will of God.
But people confuse that and think Christ in His Divinity is a lesser "god" in submission to another's will."




Does having differing roles necessitate inferiority? Because the Word of God does not fulfill the same function as the Head, does this mean He is the servant?

We cannot truly understand the mystery of Godliness; the exact synergy of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit together in perfect union is beyond mere human comprehension.

With the statement above in mind, here are some verses worth considering:

"For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."
1Corinthians 15:27-28

"when all things shall be subdued unto him". Paul is speaking of "Christ in His Divinity" here, of the future, AFTER Jesus has returned to heaven, AFTER His earthly mission is completed.

"then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him"

This text does not seem to "refer to the time when Christ took on humanity", rather it appears to refer to Him in His glorified state.

I see no shame or devaluation of humanity in following the example of our wonderful Lord Jesus.



This leads to another whole Bible Study.

Thus a whole new thread of it's own.

Firstly -- I don't think we fully understand what Christ gave up to redeem us.
It wasn't just a matter of assuming humanity for 33.5 years and then returning to His former position.

Quote:
Christ took humanity upon Himself. He laid aside His royal robe and kingly crown, and stepped down from His high command in the heavenly courts. Clothing His divinity with humanity, Christ encircled the race with His long human arm. He stands at the head of humanity, not as a sinner but as a Saviour. {LHU 93.2}
Now by His divinity He lays hold upon the throne of heaven, while by His humanity He reaches us. {RC 24.3}
He carries sanctified humanity to heaven, there always to retain humanity as it would have been if man had never violated God's law. The overcomers, who upon the earth were partakers of the divine nature, He makes kings and priests unto God.--Manuscript 156, Oct. 26, 1903, "Christ, Our Divine-Human Example." {UL 313.6}

"God so loved the world, that He gave His only-begotten Son." He gave Him not only to live among men, to bear their sins, and die their sacrifice. He gave Him to the fallen race. Christ was to identify Himself with the interests and needs of humanity. He who was one with God has linked Himself with the children of men by ties that are never to be broken. Jesus is "not ashamed to call them brethren" (Hebrews 2:11); He is our Sacrifice, our Advocate, our Brother, bearing our human form before the Father's throne, and through eternal ages one with the race He has redeemed--the Son of man. {SC 14}


Christ didn't just take upon Himself human nature for 33.5 years, He has joined Himself to the human race for all eternity.

And for all eternity Christ, standing in His glorious humanity at the head of the human race, will lead the human race to praise and exalt the Father as God of all.

Christ's divinity is still equal with the Father's Divinity, he still has that Divinity and always will, but for all eternity Christ's humanity ties Him to the human race which looks to the Father as God all in all.

Yes, Christ lays aside His equality with the Father, (though in reality still has the right to full equality) to tie Himself with the human race for eternity!

Re: Christ, Human and Divine [Re: dedication] #176957
09/19/15 08:23 PM
09/19/15 08:23 PM
dedication  Online Content OP
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Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth;
2:11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Christ in His pre-incarnation Divinity was equal with God the Father.

What humiliation on the part of Christ!
Though He was fully God, He took upon Himself the form of a servant.
He became fully human. This wasn't just "a role" he took on, or a "look alike", He became fully human.
He chose to hand the scepter of the universe over into the Father's hands and take upon Himself humanity, humbling Himself even to being crucified by the very ones He had given life and breath.

When He returned to heaven, He is exalted!
Why was He exalted?
If he would have left His humanity behind and re-entered His previous Divine State, there would have been no need to be "exalted" -- for He already held the highest position, at the side of the Father, in the whole universe. He was the "brightness of glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power," Hebrews 1:3.

But a change had taken place.
Christ had taken on humanity. He still retained Divinity, but now it was "encumbered" with humanity, something He would maintain throughout all eternity.
He had taken a different position --

That position was to stand in His humanity, at the head of the human race.
He had taken Adam's place at the head of the human race.

It was in this position that He was exalted above anything that Adam had. The combined nature of Divinity and Humanity of Christ is something our finite minds will never fully understand -- all we can do is acknowledge that it is indeed a fact.

Christ's exaltation was based on His human and divine nature, and what He had accomplished by giving up His equality with the Father to unite Himself with humanity.

"Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:"










Re: Christ, Human and Divine [Re: dedication] #176995
09/21/15 07:56 AM
09/21/15 07:56 AM
ProdigalOne  Online Content
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,183
Alberta, Canada
Amen!


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Christ, Human and Divine [Re: dedication] #177013
09/22/15 07:19 AM
09/22/15 07:19 AM
ProdigalOne  Online Content
SDA
Active Member 2024
Supporting Member 2023

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,183
Alberta, Canada
"Jesus ascended on high from the field of conflict, bearing in His own person His bruises and scars as trophies of His victory, which was to result in annihilating the power of the first rebel"
CTr 292.6


Through eternal ages, Jesus will bear the scars of sacrifice. The redeemed will ever have a visible memorial of God's amazing grace!

I recall a scene from a video, I believe it was one of AF's: Jesus is sitting in a park like setting in the New Earth. A small child walks up to Him, takes His hand, and touches His scarred palm. In a soft innocent voice, she asks: "what happened to you?" He gazes lovingly at her, and smiles a secret smile...

I wonder how He will explain His gift of infinite Love to such little ones?
I wonder how fully we, so called, grown ups understand or ever truly will?




"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Christ, Human and Divine [Re: dedication] #177137
09/27/15 02:59 AM
09/27/15 02:59 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Active Member 2019

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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: dedication
This thread springs from another thread where the subject came up whether women being in subjection to men is inequality. This argument dealing with Christ and the Godhead deserves a thread of its own.

Inequality is everywhere. Men are unequal in height, one being taller or shorter than others; and similarly in education (hence the reason for schools), understanding, wealth, power, influence, health and so forth. There is a deliberate and inherent imbalance in nature for the express purpose of ensuring the flow of love from one end of the ring to the other. Concerning this balanced imbalance or equal inequality, Paul wrote, "... in the Lord, neither is woman independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. For as the woman originates from the man, so also the man has his birth through the woman; and all things originate from God." (1 Cor. 11:12-13)

Before God, therefore, MAN and WOMAN are equal; nevertheless, GOD made for the MAN, the WOMAN. Therefore, before the angels and others, the symbol of authority on the WOMAN's head indicates that she belongs to the MAN. In fact, before there was any tradition of a material covering (verses 2 and 16), God himself designed that the WOMAN should have long hair and that her hair should serve as a reminder of her special relationship to the MAN. Today, we have the tradition of the ring.

The Bible NEVER EVER translates that idea into some obscure, far-fetched, wildly speculative, contentiously nebulous dogma about Divinity. Rather, it uses it to speak of Christ and His Church. (See Eph. 5:22-33 and 1 Pet. 3:1-7 and Rev. 22:17). See Deut. 29:29.

///



Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

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