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Why have we allowed strange music and noise and dancing in our worship? #177833
11/07/15 09:55 AM
11/07/15 09:55 AM
Rick H  Offline
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Florida, USA
It seems our worship services have began to include rock and roll music, drumming, and dancing in many of our churches to say nothing of the clapping, applause. You go on Sabbath Morning, and the drums are on the pulpit along with electrified instruments of every kind and then Stadium or theater sound systems to amplify them further. My wife and I had to leave one church as the speakers were bigger than my car and hung right above us and you can imagine how loud they had them. We went to the Spanish churches thinking they would be more conservative, but they are building their churches with the same seating and huge booming speakers that cant be for the preaching of the word, but certainly to wake the dead in my opinion. Then the unseemly and provocative dancing, we just came from a Camporee where the young people were "shaking" and "swinging" parts of their bodies best left unsaid and pumping and cheering on the others to join in during Sabbath and vespers. Needless to say our club didn't budge, and our kids stayed reverent, and I couldn't sing a word I was so stunned at the behavior from the pulpit/stage. Have we so lost our way that anything is permissible during worship, is there any reverence left in our churches or are we bringing the next generation to Led Zep and Grateful Dead concerts in our worship service.

Whats happened to Christian principles and worship, to say nothing of the warnings from SOP...

A Bedlam of Noise Which Confuses the Senses. --The things you have described as taking place in Indiana, the Lord has shown me would take place just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated. There will be shouting, with drums, music, and dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit never reveals itself in such methods, in such a bedlam of noise. This is an invention of Satan to cover up his ingenious methods for making of none effect the pure, sincere, elevating, ennobling, sanctifying truth for this time. Better never have the worship of God blended with music than to use musical instruments to do the work which last January was represented to me would be brought into our camp meetings. The truth for this time needs nothing of this kind in its work of converting souls. A bedlam of noise shocks the senses and perverts that which if conducted aright might be a blessing. The powers of satanic agencies blend with the din and noise, to have a carnival, and this is termed the Holy Spirit’s working.
No encouragement should be given to this kind of worship. The same kind of influence came in after the passing of the time in 1844. The same kind of representations were made. Men became excited, and were worked by a power thought to be the power of God. --Letter 132, 1900, to S. N. Haskell. (Published in Selected Messages, Book 2, pp. 36, 37.)

Music Acceptable if "Properly Conducted," Made Satan’s Snare. --The Holy Spirit has nothing to do with such a confusion of noise and multitude of sounds as passed before me last January. Satan works amid the din and confusion of such music, which, properly conducted, would be a praise and glory to God. He makes its effect like the poison sting of the serpent.

Those things which have been in the past will be in the future. Satan will make music a snare by the way in which it is conducted. God calls upon His people, who have the light before them in the Word and in the Testimonies, to read and consider, and to take heed. Clear and definite instruction has been given in order that all may understand. But the itching desire to originate something new results in strange doctrines, and largely destroys the influence of those who would be a power for good if they held firm the beginning of their confidence in the truth the Lord had given them. --Letter 132, 1900 to S. N. Haskell. (Published in Selected Messages, Book 2, pp. 37, 38.) (Emphasis Supplied)

These [in Indiana] were carried away by a spiritualistic delusion. --Evangelism, p. 595.

Re: Why have we allowed strange music and noise and dancing in our worship? [Re: Rick H] #177834
11/07/15 01:20 PM
11/07/15 01:20 PM
A
Alchemy  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Blessings Rick H.,

"Have we so lost our way that anything is permissible during worship, is there any reverence left in our churches or are we bringing the next generation to Led Zep and Grateful Dead concerts in our worship service. "

Much is permitted, except for standing against WOPE or complaining about the Sabbath problems in the South Pacific Division.

My point is this; We want to be hip and be in with the in crowd.

Unfortunately, in the process, we are losing our reverence for God and His Word. I personally believe that this is one of the practices that will be shaken out of the church when the time comes.

Re: Why have we allowed strange music and noise and dancing in our worship? [Re: Rick H] #177972
11/11/15 11:58 PM
11/11/15 11:58 PM
dedication  Offline
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Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,411
Canada
Satan was created a beautiful musical creature: "...every precious stone was thy covering,...the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created" (Ezek 28:13).

Since music was built into his very nature are we surprised when we see him use it to deceive and enslave?

The secular model of this loud "rock and roll" style is totally immersed in immorality, occultism, violence, intemperance and other very ungodly things.
Yet, religious rock takes that music with it's LOUDNESS, syncopation and beat that overpowers any actual harmonious melody, and adds religious sounding words.
The words DON'T even match the music.

I mean -- if one sings about the love and peace of Jesus, while screeching out the words along with loud syncopated drum beating and body jerking -- that isn't conveying the love and peace of God.

When people are communicating there is a verbal part and a non-verbal part. If the non- verbal is not in agreement with verbal and especially if the non-verbal is delivered in a loud and overpower manner, which will be believed? The strong non-verbal worldly beat and sound, or the ill matched religious words? If there is a contradiction between the verbal and the non-verbal, people will believe the non-verbal before the verbal.

INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH -- ONE ROCK AND ROLL ALBUM IS ENTITLED:
"We Sold Our Soul for Rock'n Roll".

Pray that our church members don't sell their souls for rock'n Roll.

The Bible clearly commands us to "come out from among them, and be ye separate" and to "touch not the unclean thing"

Re: Why have we allowed strange music and noise and dancing in our worship? [Re: Rick H] #177973
11/12/15 12:13 AM
11/12/15 12:13 AM
dedication  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rick H

the warnings from SOP...

A Bedlam of Noise Which Confuses the Senses. --The things you have described as taking place in Indiana, the Lord has shown me would take place just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated. There will be shouting, with drums, music, and dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit.
Selected Messages, Book 2, pp. 36, 37.)


A bedlam of noise.

Did you know that many musicians agree that rock n'roll "music" is not really music but just a bedlam of NOISE?
Originally Posted By: Bible Guidelines to Christian Music

NO MELODY = NO MUSIC!

The world famous composer and conductor, Dimitri Tiomkin said of rock music:

"The big beat is deliberately aimed at exciting the listener. . .There is actually very little MELODY, little sense in the lyrics, ONLY RHYTHM [beat]". (Los Angeles Herald-Examiner, Aug., 8, 1965, p. 9J)

Lenny Seidel, a concert pianist and twenty-five year Christian music scholar, gives this definition of both godly music and rock music:

"True godly music will be composed of three elements - all in perfect balance with each other. They are: melody, harmony, and rhythm.
Rock "music" has NO MELODY only fragments of melody endlessly repeated. Since there is no true melody, there is no real harmony. There is ONLY RHYTHM. And rhythm in and of itself is not music." (Leonard J. Seidel, Face the Music – Contemporary Music On Trial, pp. 46-51)

In his classic book, The Understanding of Music, author Charles R. Hoffer, answers our question: How does rock differ from other popular music?:

"How does rock differ from jazz and other popular music? One characteristic is its HEAVY BEAT, which led one critic to define rock as 'music in which the bass drum carries the MELODY?'" (Charles R. Hoffer, The Understanding of Music, p. 503)

Popular author, Martha Bayles, writes in her eye-opening book, "Hole in Our Soul: The Loss of Beauty and Meaning in American Popular Music":

". . . popular music seems terminally hostile to any sound traditionally associated with music." (Martha Bayles, Hole in Our Soul: The Loss of Beauty and Meaning in American Popular Music, p. 4)

Even the secular, satanic rockers the Rolling Stones admit rock is NOT music — but NOISE!


"It's a NOISE we make. That's all. You could he kind and call it music." Mick Jagger, Rolling Stones (Roy Carr, The Rolling Stones - An Illustrated Record, p. 37)

NO MELODY = NOISE!
Rock music emphasizes that HARD, driving BEAT. What instrument do you hear more than any other in rock? What instrument is it that pounds out that heavy beat? The DRUM! With all the many references in scripture to musical instruments, that is one instrument that is NEVER mentioned, Why is that? The drum was a very common instrument in Egypt and the lands around Israel. And yet the DRUM is NEVER mentioned in a King James Bible.

Did the Lord just forget to include the DRUM or is there another reason?

Is it because — drums are associated with voodoo, shamanism, paganism and magic rituals?


Re: Why have we allowed strange music and noise and dancing in our worship? [Re: Alchemy] #177997
11/12/15 11:05 AM
11/12/15 11:05 AM
Rick H  Offline
OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,100
Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Blessings Rick H.,

"Have we so lost our way that anything is permissible during worship, is there any reverence left in our churches or are we bringing the next generation to Led Zep and Grateful Dead concerts in our worship service. "

Much is permitted, except for standing against WOPE or complaining about the Sabbath problems in the South Pacific Division.

My point is this; We want to be hip and be in with the in crowd.

Unfortunately, in the process, we are losing our reverence for God and His Word. I personally believe that this is one of the practices that will be shaken out of the church when the time comes.
Never looked at it that way, but yes when the tares are shaken out, their music and ideas most certainly will go with them..

Re: Why have we allowed strange music and noise and dancing in our worship? [Re: Rick H] #177998
11/12/15 11:09 AM
11/12/15 11:09 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2018

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: Rick H
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Blessings Rick H.,

"Have we so lost our way that anything is permissible during worship, is there any reverence left in our churches or are we bringing the next generation to Led Zep and Grateful Dead concerts in our worship service. "

Much is permitted, except for standing against WOPE or complaining about the Sabbath problems in the South Pacific Division.

My point is this; We want to be hip and be in with the in crowd.

Unfortunately, in the process, we are losing our reverence for God and His Word. I personally believe that this is one of the practices that will be shaken out of the church when the time comes.
Never looked at it that way, but yes when the tares are shaken out, their music and ideas most certainly will go with them..
(bold emphasis mine)

That is the thinking I have have now.

Re: Why have we allowed strange music and noise and dancing in our worship? [Re: Rick H] #178034
11/14/15 09:44 AM
11/14/15 09:44 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline
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Active Member 2024
Supporting Member 2023

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,168
Alberta, Canada

In the eighties, it was mostly in the charismatic churches that I noticed heavy, loud music. That type of hypnotic, sense dulling, music seems to facilitate the emotional outpourings that counterfeit the Holy Spirit in such groups.

Hypnotic, sense dulling, counterfeit Holy Spirit, does this all sound strangely familiar?
It should, it is simply another style of Spiritual Formation!

Expect to see more of it in our Churches as the three frogs continue to make inroads.


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Why have we allowed strange music and noise and dancing in our worship? [Re: ProdigalOne] #178039
11/14/15 11:38 AM
11/14/15 11:38 AM
Rick H  Offline
OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,100
Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne

In the eighties, it was mostly in the charismatic churches that I noticed heavy, loud music. That type of hypnotic, sense dulling, music seems to facilitate the emotional outpourings that counterfeit the Holy Spirit in such groups.

Hypnotic, sense dulling, counterfeit Holy Spirit, does this all sound strangely familiar?
It should, it is simply another style of Spiritual Formation!

Expect to see more of it in our Churches as the three frogs continue to make inroads.
Go to California or some of the churches in the large cities, and it is already there in full force. We are asleep my brothers and sisters, we must awake out of our dangerous spiritual slumber...

Re: Why have we allowed strange music and noise and dancing in our worship? [Re: Rick H] #178056
11/14/15 07:38 PM
11/14/15 07:38 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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3500+ Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
You should see Nashville. Just like LA they have full stages and sound systems that could wake the dead. I even saw pyrotechnics


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Why have we allowed strange music and noise and dancing in our worship? [Re: jamesonofthunder] #178093
11/15/15 10:32 AM
11/15/15 10:32 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024
Supporting Member 2023

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,168
Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder
You should see Nashville. Just like LA they have full stages and sound systems that could wake the dead. I even saw pyrotechnics



Are you talking about SDA churches with pyrotechnics??


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
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