Those members of the tribe of Judah who refused to leave Babylon remained as permanent citizens. Thus, they became part of Babylon.

By the same logic, if the majority of the SDA denomination refuses to separate from Babylon wouldn't they become part of it? Then wouldn't the call to "come out of her my people" be a call to leave the SDA denomination?

Sister Elle; The reason it will be a shaking out of those who do not follow the Spirit of Prophecy is because of the pressure of the world against those who are following the Spirit of Prophecy, the straight testimony brings serious persecution against anyone claiming our beliefs in the days ahead. And in the process the halfhearted will be the ones who turn on the remnant more ferociously than even the world because they fold under the external pressures, and the remnant will never dismiss their faith in the SDA message. Those who have already laid aside certain portions of the testimonies will be shaken out and have to forsake their claim to the title of SDA. ESPECIALLY when the Sunday law issue comes. This will be the ultimate dividing of the sheep and the goats. But the events leading to the Sunday law are already unfolding, and here is where our faith is tested to prepare us for the Latter Rain.

Using the Spirit of Prophecy I would like to draw a picture for you to imagine. The very first vision Mrs White received was about the path to the heavenly city. This path was high and lifted up with the light of the Midnight Cry at the entrance to the path. She was shown the 144,000 on this path heading to the heavenly city. So in order to be one of the 144,000 you must believe in the message of the Midnight Cry. This begins the path. But how many pastors do you hear teaching about the midnight Cry? It's a point of contention. They are ashamed that we as Seventh Day Adventists claimed that Jesus would come in 1844 so they discard the Midnight Cry. This excludes them from being prepared because they are not on that path.

Here is the first Vision the Lord's Servant received.



The Spirit of Prophecy and the Great disappointment/ Midnight Cry, is almost as much a part of the path of the 144,000 as scripture according to what God has shown me. So with this mindset if you don't believe that the Great Disappointment was ordained by God you are not on the correct path to the Heavenly city. But how many discard that message?

As an example, I am claiming that God showed me the Spirit of Prophecy. He took me out of my past life and led me directly to this church and I will never claim otherwise. I have never seen anyone as persecuted inside the church as I have been. I have been beaten and attacked and maligned and hated from the moment God had me call the SDA church that first day after telling me to call them. The seventh day of my fast God showed me Matthew 12:8 "Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath" and light circled those words and filled my mind connecting thoughts and I heard the Still Small voice say "this will lead you home to me". I called the local SDA church like He told me to and the president of the Alaska conference (Jim Stevens) came over to my home to hear my testimony with the local pastor and he has persecuted me ever since. WHY? Because I claimed God led me there. My testimony brings major persecution against me, but does that mean I should leave the church? NO WAY. They can leave, I will never.

As a side note, the running of Brother Ben Carson for president has done more to bring us into the spot light than at any other time other than when AT Jones defended our position of the Sabbath in congress. The fact that Mr Carson dismisses the council given, to NOT be involved in politics shows his willingness to Kowtow to popular beliefs and dismiss the SOP. This is a very common attribute to 90% of those claiming our faith. They are willing to dismiss the perfect council of the Holy Spirit through the testimonies to get their way, which is rebellion. They will be the remnant worst enemies. I have already seen it myself.

Those members of the tribe of Judah who refused to leave Babylon remained as permanent citizens. Thus, they became part of Babylon.

By the same logic, if the majority of the SDA denomination refuses to separate from Babylon wouldn't they become part of it? Then wouldn't the call to "come out of her my people" be a call to leave the SDA denomination?

Just curious, how would you define persecution?

Maybe you are not aware she has substituted a different definition for Babylon?

Maybe you are not aware she has substituted a different definition for Babylon?

(bold emphasis mine)


There may be any number of ways to think that God's Remnant Church can become Babylon, but, it can't. Even if the majority of people in it are Babylonians, God's church can never become Babylon.

Tx for the question. It is always good to look up words in the Bible to see how the LORD has define these and reflecte on these.

The main Greek word for persecution is dioko(G1377) that means “to pursue” (literally or figuratively). It has been used 44x in the NT where it was translated 28x as persecute.

Here’s a portion of the outline of the Biblical Usage given by the Blue Letter Bible :

-to make to run or flee, put to flight, drive away
-to pursue (in a hostile manner)
-in any way whatever to harass, trouble, molest one
-to persecute -- to be mistreated, suffer persecution on account of something

In Hebrew the word is rawdaf(H7291) that has a similar proper definition as dioko – “to run after”. rawdaf has many application that not necessarily all means persecution. Out of the 143x the word was used in the OT; it was translated as persecute 27x.

I think “to pursue in a hostile manner” would capture the meaning of persecution in a general way.

Some Reflection on the History and nature of Persecution

Jesus made several remarks towards the Jews for killing, a form of persecution, the prophets by stoning. When Israel has their Sovereignty under their Judges or under their Kings…stoning was the “lawful way” to bring judgment on a prophet, on a adulterer, and on a Sabbath breaker. Other sins, the sinner was “accused” in court were the Levite-judge sentenced a debt and put the sinner into slavery according to the law of judgment and the law of Jubilee.

However, despite they acted according to the LITTERAL letter of the law; they had no understanding what the Law-Giver(Jesus) meant with these laws and their purpose was hostile towards their brothers. Thus they juged their brothers and sisters according to the hardness of their hearts and limited narrow understanding of the law.

Also, another sin they were guilty of is they used the law to enslave their brothers and the foreigners. They were guilty of refusing to set free their slaves on the 7th year. The nation of Israel never kept the 7th year as a Sabbath. It wasn’t so much that they didn’t want to give a rest to the land, but mainly the reason was they didn’t want to lose their servants. Also they refused to cancel all debts and restore everyone to their inheritance at the Jubilee year.

The law was never meant for us to “accuse” our brother. This is Satan’s job, not for any “son of God” under training. The law was design to restore us and reconcile us to our brother. The Lord has provided ample loophole in the law to be used to restore anyone. However, the Jews used the law to condemn and sought loopholes to keep their brothers in a perpetual bondage for their were big profit in having free labor(and getting their possession and land) from a slave that was penalized by the law.

The Lord put the house of Israel and of Judah in captivity (under the Sovereignty of another nation) ever since they entered Canaan. Israel were put under captivity 6 times before the 7th captivity by the Assyrian came. On the 7th, they lost all their possession, they were exiled from their land, and most were killed. The same happened for the house of Judah under the captivity of Babylon. Then the Lord showed Daniel that the captivity would continue under 3 additional Beast Empires plus an extension of the Roman Empire.

Under the Roman Empire, the Jews lost their ability to stone (execute to death) their members. Actually, it is the Lord that used the Roman Empire to remove their stoning “rights” from the Jews for it was heavily abused whenever they were under a corrupt leadership -- either when they were under a corrupt priesthood or kings. If they would of retained this “right”, they would of long stoned Jesus and many others.

When the early Church became corrupt (only took less than a 100 years or so…history shows that the Christian were also stoning their members and foreigners when they could during the time the Roman Empire crumble and before the Lord gave the RCC authority) and gained Sovereignty over many nations... the RCC used Scriptures to torture and burn alive their members for simply not believing the Church doctrines. This was a strong witness to the world ‘till today that shows the ways of a corrupt Church.

The Lord removed the authority from the RCC, and the Church is now under the captivity of Mystery Babylon. The Babylonian court system does not allow slavery, nor stoning, nor burning members alive. However, if we still had that authority; I have no doubt that we would of used scriptures to stone, burn, and put our brothers into perpetual slavery.

Our captivity to Mystery Babylon protects us for the Lord used them to impose laws on us that prohibits these savageries including polygamy which stemed from a limited understanding of the law.

We hypocritely point our fingers at the RCC for their pass barbarian behavior, when we ourselves do the same in a lesser measure. And if we could, it wouldn’t take much time for our Church or any other church to become the same as the RCC was. We, including myself, all have manifested the same spirit as the RCC; we just don’t have the authority to do much besides shooting others with our mouth in all directions.

The Israelites, the Jews, the RCC persecution history are all mirrors the Lord has made for us to see our own hearts so to bring us into repentance. It’s now time for the Lord to open our eyes to see our reflection and hearts.

It is the Lord that has blinded us in so many ways until today. The expected latter rain will end this blindness. I think the Lord has planned this in this way so to bring us in such a deep repentance that was never seen before in history. All things work for good! Let us praise the Lord for His wisdom and ability to bring us all into repentance. Much Blessings to everyone!

I agree Alchemy, the SOP is quite clear that the SDA Church is not to be called Babylon.

Since Elle appears to believe it is the faithful who are shaken out of the Church, I was wondering if she thought the SDA Church was, or will become, part of Babylon.