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Flock of Slaughter - Zech 11 Study #179299
02/05/16 01:47 AM
02/05/16 01:47 AM
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Charity  Offline OP
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I've been looking at Zech 11 for a while because it seems to have an end-time application. Matthew Henry's commentary, one of the most respected among Protestants applies it to the first Advent of Christ. Interestingly he says the two staffs of the good shepherd called Beauty and Bands represent church and state respectively. He observes that when the Jewish church rejected Christ, they were rejected by God and the staff of Beauty was broken. The result was that not long after, the second staff, Bands, or the state also was broken.

To give one example of why I think there is an end-time application, the part of the acted prophecy where three shepherds are cut of occurs over a period of a month seems to have a future significance. There is nothing that answers to that in Christ's ministry. It could apply only to Zechariah's day but there are other parts that make me think the main application is to the end. At this point I don't know whether it applies to physical or spiritual Israel. I lean towards physical because it appears to be in the context of great distress in neighboring Lebanon and Jordan. Zech 11:1-3. But it could be spiritual or could be both.

Re: Flock of Slaughter - Zech 11 Study [Re: Charity] #179333
02/06/16 09:52 PM
02/06/16 09:52 PM
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Charity  Offline OP
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Another reason for applying this acted prophecy (Zech 11) to the end is that it is during the latter rain. Chapter 10 sets the overall context. Notice the latter rain is poured out at the same time that false shepherds come under the wrath and judgment of God:

Quote:
Zec 10:1 Ask ye of the LORD rain in the time of the latter rain; so the LORD shall make bright clouds, and give them showers of rain, to every one grass in the field.
Zec 10:2 For the idols have spoken vanity, and the diviners have seen a lie, and have told false dreams; they comfort in vain: therefore they went their way as a flock, they were troubled, because there was no shepherd.
Zec 10:3 Mine anger was kindled against the shepherds, and I punished the goats: for the LORD of hosts hath visited his flock the house of Judah, and hath made them as his goodly horse in the battle.

So who are these three false shepherds in chapter 11? I'll suggest the dragon, the beast and the false prophet – the fallen religious systems of Catholicism and Protestantism combined with Spiritualism. This last false shepherd, Spiritualism, is at the root of all the world's anti-Christ religions – Buddism, Hinduism, Islam, Shintoism, Confucism etc. As to how this plays out, the three false shepherds will be unmasked for their unfaithfulness in the same way that Christ at the end of His ministry exposed the unfaithful shepherds of the Jews. Their exposure in the final cleansing of the Temple and the woes He pronounced on the religious leaders brought about His death and the breaking the staff of beauty. But 50 days later the early rain was poured out. We might expect a similar sequence. That is, as the movement for the Sunday Law builds to a climax it will be initially exposed for what it is and the "pour of the flock" will understand. To the faithful, the false shepherds will be cut off, but they will succeed in putting the faithful shepherd out. The staff of beauty will be broken and the unfaithful will be devoid of the Spirit. But soon after, the latter rain will be poured out on the faithful who give the final warning.

I mentioned that the prophecy may also apply to modern Israel. Here's why. Romans 11 tells us that God still loves the Jews.
Quote:
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Paul goes on to explain that blindness has come on them until the full number of the Gentiles, the wild stock, is gathered and grafted into the tame stock which is the stock of Israel. To me this means that at the end the Lord is going to judge and cleanse the Jews one final time. Since they, although mostly blind right now, are still the natural stock, they, like Adventism, will be judged first because judgment starts with the house of God. God is going to expose the unfaithful rabbis of the Jews just as he will expose the unfaith shepherds of His Church. So in the case of the Jews I make the suggestion that the three false shepherds that will be “cut off in one month” will be the Orthodox which parallels Catholicism in Christainity, the Reformed which parallels Protestantism, and the Kaballah which parallels Spiritualism.

But there could be still another future application that hits close to home - to Adventism.

Last edited by Mark Shipowick; 02/06/16 09:57 PM.
Re: Flock of Slaughter - Zech 11 Study [Re: Charity] #179343
02/07/16 01:38 AM
02/07/16 01:38 AM
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Elle  Offline
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i never studied the book of Zechariah, so I cannot contribute much and right now I'm busy in finishing the 8th day - Feast of Tabernacle connection study.

However I can give my comment on the following.
Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
Quote:
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Paul goes on to explain that blindness has come on them until the full number of the Gentiles, the wild stock, is gathered and grafted into the tame stock which is the stock of Israel. To me this means that at the end the Lord is going to judge and cleanse the Jews one final time. Since they, although mostly blind right now, are still the natural stock, they, like Adventism, will be judged first because judgment starts with the house of God. God is going to expose the unfaithful rabbis of the Jews just as he will expose the unfaith shepherds of His Church.

To my understanding, the Jews of today are not the Israelites that Paul is refering to in Romans 11. The 10 northern tribes of Israel were physically separated from the 2 southern tribes of Judah since the death of Solomon. They became two separate nation having separate fate, captivity, judgments, event timing, prophesies set, and etc... James and some other apostle wrote to the tribes of the dispersion. Ezekiel visited them also after the Babylonian army conquered the Assyrian.

For sure Jesus Christ who is "the Repairer of the Breach," {Is 58:12) will regather Israel and Judah under one Head (Hos. 1:11).

But let us note that before the death of Solomon and the split of Judah and Israel -- it was Jacob, under the Lord's inspiration, that separated the Birthright(given to Joseph) from the rulership(given to Judah} and the priesthood(given to Levi). We read in 1Chr 5:1,2 "Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he [was] the firstborn; but, forasmuch as he defiled his father's bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright. 2 For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him [came] the chief ruler; but the birthright [was] Joseph's: )". This text makes clear that the birthright, the greater blessing, belongs to Joseph and not Judah.

Also note that Jacob said to Judah "the scepter shall not depart from Judah...until shiloh comes" (Gen 49:10) implying that the scepter will depart from Judah when Shiloh(means peace) -- the King of Peace comes.

So Jesus at His 1st coming, came from the line of Judah and took the scepter from Judah; plus He took the Priesthood from Levi. At His second coming Rev 19:13 tells us that Jesus comes with "a vesture dipped in blood" that symbolizes Joseph. At His 2nd coming is when He will take the birthright given to Joseph (his two sons) and thus reunites Israel(who have the birthright) to the scepter taken from Judah, and the Priesthood from Levi under one Head. There's much more to be said here and lots more scriptures to bring forth that portrays this but this is to give you a quick view what we should spent more time in studying so we can understand further His 2nd coming and all these end time prophecies like Zech 11.

Plus to add another very important element into this picture is before this end time reunification of the scepter and the priesthood with the birthright of Joseph; the Lord needs to first give the birthright back to Esau (Edom). We need to understand the unlawful manner Jacob took the birthright from Esau and he tried to fulfilled prophecies by the hand of the flesh. It is only the Lord that fulfills prophecies in His appointed time and in His ways.

Esau was the firstborn and according to the law, the blessings and birthright was due to him and cannot be taken from him. Only through disqualification could the birthright be taken from him thru the Lord's judgment. As quoted above in 1Chr 5:1, Reuben, who was the firstborn of Jacob, lost his right of the birthright holder because he slept with Jacob's wife. Then also did Simeon and Levi thru the bloodshed of a whole town. However, the Lord did put the bloodshed of Levi in good used by given him the priesthood where he had to slaughter innocent animals.

But Jacob stole the birthright thru an unfair and unlawful trade and the blessings thru deceits. Thus it was totally unfair and unlawful not to give Esau the chance to be proven worthy or unworthy of the blessing.

So this injustice has to be resolved sometime before Jesus 2nd coming. Thus if you read the blessing of Esau after Isaac found out what Jacob had done we read "And by thy sword shalt thou live, and shalt serve thy brother; and it shall come to pass when thou shalt have the dominion, that thou shalt break his yoke from off thy neck." So this prophecies that Esau will have the dominion again. And this is an important element that we need to have in our end time picture that we see happening today in the current events.

The dominion had to be given to Esau in a later time so he can prove that he is worthy or not of the birthright that was rightfully to him because he was the firstborn.
So the Lord had to take care of the mess that Jacob had done by taking the birthright from Esau illegally. Mind you that this mess was in the Lord's plan from the start. I believe all things happens according to the plan(boulema) of the Lord (Eph 1:11).

So who are and where is Esau today? In the revolt of Judah Maccabee that broke the Jews from the yoke of the Greek Empire in the years 126 BC, they also conquered the land of Edom(Esau descendants). They forced them to convert into Judaism which they did willingly as they always wanted Jerusalem. And from that point in history, Edom and the Jews(tribe of Judah) became one nation.
Originally Posted By: The Jewish Encyclopedia, 1925 edition
Judas Maccabeus conquered their territory for a time (B.C. 163; Ant. Xii, 8 par. 1, 2). They were again subdued by John Hyrcanus (c. 125 B.C.) by whom they were forced to observe Jewish rites and laws (ib. 9, par. 1; xiv. 4, par. 4). They were then incorporated with the Jewish nation, and their country was called by the Greeks and Romans ‘Idumea’ (Mark iii. 8; Ptolemy, Geography v. 16). With Antipater began the Idumean dynasty that ruled over Judea till its conquest by the Romans. Immediately before the siege of Jerusalem 20,000 Idumeans, under the leadership of John, Simeon, Phinehas, and Jacob, appeared before Jerusalem to fight in behalf of the zealots who were besieged in the Temple (Josephus, B.J. iv. 4, par. 5). From this time the Idumeans ceased to be a separate people.


There's many other Jewish sources all saying the same. Basically, Jewish history is very clear, Edom became totally absorbe with the Jews from that point of time that was before Jesus 1st coming. That's a very important piece of history to know. That means that the prophecies concerning Edom is being fulfilled by those Jews.

Now let's come back to Jacob's mess by unlawfully taken Esau's birthright that the Lord has to make right later -- Isaac prophecies (or blessing to Esaus) happened in 1948 with the return of the "Jews(-Edomites)" back to Jerusalem. They decepfully took the name of "ISRAEL" just like Jacob deceptfully took the name of "ESAU" to have the blessing. The Jews(-Edomites) have shown themselves not worthy to have the birthright by mistreating the Palestinians and by multitude of millions of bloodshed worldwide via the Zionist movement by which I believe they are the head of. Soon, as you say, the Lord will first come to judge them and remove the birthright and give it to the Saints of the Most High(the overcomers).


Now, another important distinction to note is there are 3 types of Jews :

1. Sephardic Jews : The Hebrews from Spain has two points in history. The first is quite ancient and points way back sometime before Abraham where the son of Eber(Joktan and his 13 sons) (btw the name of Hebrew means "from Eber") separated and went East Gen 10:25-30. Spain was one country this huge family occupy. This is why Spain is also known as Iberia which the word derive from the name Eber. Thus this nation are really ancient Hebrews and are not to be considered as Jews. However, the second point of history dates back when the Babylonian captivity of the Jews was over. Only a few Jews return back to Jerusalem (a few thousands not very much). Most stayed in the land of Babylon that was now taken over the Persian and the Medes. But also historical data show a very large group went to Spain. We can understand why and it is because the Jews had similar Hebrew roots as the Spaniards living there. So those Jews that are called the Sephardic Jews. These Jews strongly believe that the Lord do not want them to return to Jerusalem. That's probably why many didn't return to Jerusalem after the Babylonian captivity. Those are the ones that voice against the Zionist movement and stating their strong belief that no Jews should be in Jerusalem for it is forbidden by the LORD.

2. the Khazarian Jews : this nation has absolutely no blood relation with the Sephardic Jews, or the ancient Hebrews, or the Edomites, or the Jews that return to Jerusalem after the Babylonian captivity. They are a nation from the Ukraine-Russia area that converted in Judaism around 950 CE for political interest. I have heard that over 80% of the European Jews today are from that background.

3. The Edomite-Jews: The combination of the Edomite nation with the Jews that return to Jerusalem after the Babylonian captivity.

To me, none of these 3 groups of Jews are the Israelites that Paul talks about. Those Israelites that were taken into captivity after the Assyrian conquest in 745 BC had moved further north thru the centuries and have became a great nation according to prophecies that mostly populated Europe. Their are archeological evidence of this. Basically, it is believed that most of the nation of Europe, the United States, and Canada are descendants from the ancient scattered Israelites tribe. This does not give us any special priviledge as we became also as the Gentiles that needs to be regrafted to the Jesus-olive tree.

I would recommend reading the book "The Struggle for the Birthright" that I think is a very good Biblical study with historic data of most of the elements I have mention above.

Yes I agree with you that Zech 11 is an end time prophesy that some elements was partially fulfilled at Jesus 1st coming. As you say, the real complete fulfillment comes at His 2nd coming. I will be reading this thread with interest as I need to study this book eventually.


Blessings
Re: Flock of Slaughter - Zech 11 Study [Re: Charity] #179364
02/08/16 01:29 AM
02/08/16 01:29 AM
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Charity  Offline OP
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Wow. They say "truth is stranger than fiction" sometimes. The key is knowing which is which, lol. Lots to think about there. You know Christ claimed to be Jewish - the true blood line. Your post seems to question that by having Paul make a distinction between Jews and Israelites. Paul and Christ are speaking of the same nationality when saying "Israel of the flesh" and "salvation is of the Jews" respectively imo. But lots of informative material there on Hebrew history in a compact package. I may take a bit of time to verify one or two claims. Thanks for sharing, Elle.


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