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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Everybody Is Saved, or that Some Are Saved? [Re: Daryl] #179966
03/25/16 06:51 PM
03/25/16 06:51 PM
Daryl  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,121
Nova Scotia, Canada
Here's another one:

Rev 20:12 KJV And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Does the Bible Teach that Everybody Is Saved, or that Some Are Saved? [Re: Daryl] #179967
03/25/16 07:31 PM
03/25/16 07:31 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Elle,

John 3:16 speaks of "whosoever believeth" (some, not all) should not "perish" but have "everlasting life." What the text does NOT say is the clincher to your question. The text does NOT say that Jesus' gift of eternal life will be given to ALL.

As others have pointed out, the Bible speaks of some who perish. Many places in the Bible address those who will be separated out from the righteous and be lost, burned, or perish. "Perish" does not mean "live." They are polar opposites.

For example, from Psalm 1:6 "For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish."

This theme is found consistently throughout the Bible. Jesus said in Matthew:

18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
18:5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
18:7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

There is no reason for Jesus to pronounce a woe (curse) upon those who offend others (e.g. teach them to sin) if in the end they will be saved like the ones they offended. And why would Jesus cast the saved into "hell fire"? Saved people are not burned, nor cast in the fire to be burned.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Does the Bible Teach that Everybody Is Saved, or that Some Are Saved? [Re: Daryl] #179969
03/25/16 10:25 PM
03/25/16 10:25 PM
K
kland  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,425
Midland
So do you believe ALL are not raised in the first resurrection?

Re: Does the Bible Teach that Everybody Is Saved, or that Some Are Saved? [Re: kland] #179971
03/26/16 01:16 AM
03/26/16 01:16 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: kland
So do you believe ALL are not raised in the first resurrection?

Though your post appears to be responding to Daryl, I will be happy to say that from my understanding of the Bible only a special group of wicked people will be raised before Christ comes, and definitely not all of them. In fact, I understand that there are to be THREE general resurrections. (I say "general" to distinguish them from special resurrections where an individual is raised to life, such as occasionally occurs in our world even today.)

1. Christ's murderers -- These will be raised just before He comes so that they have opportunity to witness His coming. (See Matthew 26:64 and Revelation 1:7.)

2. The righteous dead -- These will be raised at the trump of God when Christ has come, and they will rise to meet Him in the air, following which the righteous living will also join them in the air. (See 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.)

3. All the wicked who are to be raised to face judgment (a special few will never be raised again per God's mercy) -- These will be raised at Christ's third coming and will see the New Jerusalem with the saints of God in it. These will all acknowledge that God has been fair in punishing them, but will, nonetheless, seek to make war with Him in order to overcome the City and possess it for themselves before God will bring fire upon them and destroy them all, root and branch. (See John 5:28-29, Revelation 21:8, Revelation 14:9-10, Revelation chapter 20, Romans 14:11-12, Philippians 2:10-12, Revelation 19:20, Malachi 4:1-3, and Matthew 18:8-9.)

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Does the Bible Teach that Everybody Is Saved, or that Some Are Saved? [Re: Daryl] #179974
03/26/16 11:55 AM
03/26/16 11:55 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
a special few will never be raised again per God's mercy

Why do you believe a lie?

///

Re: Does the Bible Teach that Everybody Is Saved, or that Some Are Saved? [Re: James Peterson] #179978
03/26/16 03:00 PM
03/26/16 03:00 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
a special few will never be raised again per God's mercy

Why do you believe a lie?

///

James, if it were a lie I wouldn't believe it. I only believe what I understand to be the truth. I expect you are the same. Few people knowingly believe lies.

Here is the reason for my belief:
Originally Posted By: Ellen White
I saw that the slave-master would have to answer for the soul of his slave whom he has kept in ignorance; and all the sins of the slave will be visited upon the master. God cannot take the slave to heaven, who has been kept in ignorance and degradation, knowing nothing of God, or the Bible, fearing nothing but his master's lash, and not holding so elevated a position as his master's brute beasts. But he does the best thing for him that a compassionate God can do. He lets him be as though he had not been; while the master has to suffer the seven last plagues, and then come up in the second resurrection, and suffer the second, most awful death. Then the wrath of God will be appeased. {1SG 193.1}


Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Last edited by Green Cochoa; 03/26/16 03:02 PM. Reason: Added Quotation

We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Does the Bible Teach that Everybody Is Saved, or that Some Are Saved? [Re: Green Cochoa] #179981
03/26/16 05:34 PM
03/26/16 05:34 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
James, if it were a lie I wouldn't believe it. I only believe what I understand to be the truth. I expect you are the same. Few people knowingly believe lies. Here is the reason for my belief:

Originally Posted By: Ellen White
I saw that the slave-master would have to answer for the soul of his slave whom he has kept in ignorance; and all the sins of the slave will be visited upon the master. God cannot take the slave to heaven, who has been kept in ignorance and degradation, knowing nothing of God, or the Bible, fearing nothing but his master's lash, and not holding so elevated a position as his master's brute beasts. But he does the best thing for him that a compassionate God can do. He lets him be as though he had not been; while the master has to suffer the seven last plagues, and then come up in the second resurrection, and suffer the second, most awful death. Then the wrath of God will be appeased. {1SG 193.1}

Blessings, Green Cochoa.

Perhaps it failed to register (on you) that she failed to provide any biblical evidence for an idea drawn out of thin air.


On the other hand, Jesus speaks of those who will be better off not having been born:
  • JUDAS: "The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had never been born." (Mark 14:21)
     
  • PEDOPHILES: "It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones." (Luke 17:2)

And, Jesus (and Paul) also speaks about the resurrection of EVERYONE.
  • See John 5:28, "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which ALL WHO ARE IN THE GRAVES will hear His voice ..."
     
  • See Rom. 14:10-12, "For WE SHALL ALL stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written: 'As I live, says the Lord, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God.' So then EACH OF US shall give account of himself to God."

According to Jesus Christ (and Paul) then, ALL who are in the graves, we shall ALL (EACH ONE of us) be raised, bow and confess. Therefore, the thin idea that only some will be raised (EGW, 1SG 193.1) is false, misleading and beguiling.

///

Re: Does the Bible Teach that Everybody Is Saved, or that Some Are Saved? [Re: James Peterson] #179983
03/26/16 10:34 PM
03/26/16 10:34 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Perhaps it failed to register (on you) that she failed to provide any biblical evidence for an idea drawn out of thin air.

You have a choice what you will believe, James. However, there is plenty of Biblical evidence to support what I believe. I believe in a God of mercy, don't you? I don't believe God is a cruel tyrant, do you?

Essentially, in not choosing to accept what Mrs. White declares as being consistent with the nature of God, you turn your eyes away from the teachings of the Bible about God's character. You have the freedom to do this, granted by God, but do you think God feels happy when people believe lies?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Does the Bible Teach that Everybody Is Saved, or that Some Are Saved? [Re: Daryl] #179984
03/26/16 11:22 PM
03/26/16 11:22 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
///

EGW's and your lack of Biblical evidence is glaring still.

///

Re: Does the Bible Teach that Everybody Is Saved, or that Some Are Saved? [Re: James Peterson] #179985
03/27/16 01:29 AM
03/27/16 01:29 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: James Peterson
///

EGW's and your lack of Biblical evidence is glaring still.

///

Then prove to me, from the Bible, that God is not merciful. I assumed you would not require proof that God was merciful, but it appears I misunderstood your position. Please show me, from the Bible, where I am wrong. Maybe I read texts like Exodus 34:6-7 differently than you do?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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