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Re: Does anyone really know how the economy works now? [Re: kland] #181017
07/15/16 01:52 AM
07/15/16 01:52 AM
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Alchemy  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: Alchemy

I don't have any issue with people working smart and hard to gain a return on their labor. But, I don't believe payment is an adequate symbol of that labor.
What would you consider an adequate symbol of that labor?


What I believe we need to realize today is that most people suffering today aren't in those positions due to their lack of responsibility or hard work. It is from all these booms and busts in the economy. Situations and events completely out of their control.

Secondly, a fair wage may be deserved, but, it is not in and of itself an adequate symbol of one's labor. It is the character and integrity developed over time through experience.

Re: Does anyone really know how the economy works now? [Re: Alchemy] #181020
07/15/16 02:53 AM
07/15/16 02:53 AM
dedication  Offline
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The whole system that has taken over the economy is designed to ruin a true "capitalism" society. Years ago, people worked hard and were able to buy and sell their products. Small business flourished. Family farms were common. Everyone had a chance, with a little wisdom and hard work to make an honest living.

But then everything started to change. Monopolies, supported by government, took away true capitalism and started making all kinds of rules and restrictions, buying and selling laws, and taxes that took away the privileges that were once enjoyed. Now the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, and the middle class is shrinking.

Once a father could earn enough to support his family, now with both husband and wife working people barely make ends meet.

It's not just the "debt" idea -- bad as it is, and all the strange "interest" schemes that steal money from the poor and give it to the rich...
There is a plan to destroy the freedoms, and financial privileges of the majority of common people.
It's fueled by the compulsion of a few to rule the masses and bring them under subjection.

There will be a "restructuring", but it won't be good, it will be terrible! Government claims the right to seize everything. The world will hurl into a time of trouble such as never was, but God will deliver His people.

Re: Does anyone really know how the economy works now? [Re: kland] #181102
07/21/16 01:26 PM
07/21/16 01:26 PM
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kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: kland


Originally Posted By: Elle

You seem to not be aware of the debt system that is design to in-debt a nation. For sure some individuals can pay off their debt and stay debt free. But not the nations as a whole; it is impossible. Watch the video. You will see what I mean.
I disagree. But will watch the video if it's not that Jim Willie or whoever with the donkey.

Ok, I watched it. Assuming it's true, it was very informing. What I had heard before of the Federal Reserve was more simplified, but the end result was the same.

I checked the website, and as expected, they were pawning off their gold and silver. Guess that's their solution.

According to what they say is happening, there's not much one can do (other than buy their gold!). It's best to encourage everyone to go in debt to support the system, to make it last long enough for you. An individual wins by not being in debt. A local government or nation could win and be out of debt as long as the others keep in debt. One doesn't have to buy what they can't afford.

But as hinted at in the video, work is the true value. If it wasn't for the people working, this Ponzi scheme wouldn't work. Shuffling IOUs (nor gold) doesn't produce things.

So buy more, go in debt more, help profit those who don't buy into the scheme. Thank you!

Hey, how about going into debt to buy pavement? If enough people do that, the scheme could last a little longer.

Re: Does anyone really know how the economy works now? [Re: kland] #181135
07/23/16 05:26 PM
07/23/16 05:26 PM
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Elle  Offline
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Posts: 2,536
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Quote:
Elle : You seem to not be aware of the debt system that is design to in-debt a nation. For sure some individuals can pay off their debt and stay debt free. But not the nations as a whole; it is impossible. Watch the video. You will see what I mean.

Kland : According to what they say is happening, there's not much one can do (other than buy their gold!).

That's true their's nothing much one can do BECAUSE the current system is a DEBT System design to put nations into debt. It is unsustainable no matter how much people of a nation WORK HARD or how good of a stewards they are with their money. It is mathematically impossible to pay the national debt.

Let's view this very simplistically. Let's say a private bank lends a country 100 Billion with interest. When there's only 100 Billion circulating within the nation -- it is impossible to pay back 100 + 20% interest(whatever the interest rate is set). Let's say your country succeeds to get the 20% interest charge from your neighbor's country thru sales...well then your neighbor country won't be able to pay their debt and will eventually become broke and won't have the money to buy any of your goods in the future....thus you yourself will eventually be unable to pay your own debt for all countries around you won't have the money to buy your goods. The system doesn't mathematically WORK on the long run in a global perspective. Today we are facing the end of this LONG RUN where ALL Countries find them self in DEBT beyond their necks.

Then let's add to this impossible mathematical equation ....the US government infinity and beyond money printing frenzy and the too-big-to-fail-banks gambling addictions which are the real BIG SPENDERS and contributors of the national debt. The Banks have over 700 TRILLIONS of accumulated in Derivatives Debt!!! Just Crazy! Then they have built in their laws that the citizens will bail them out. There's no accountability whatsoever for them (Banks & government Agencies) that are really responsible for the national debt. So they can continue their spending that further puts the nation in debt.

Then to add to this we have the rigging of all rates of commodities (see LIBOR scandals), and etc... The whole Babylonian(FED-IMF...) monetary system is so corrupt to its core that no people can make it work or save it ---for it is design to enslave and exploit the nation while only the few Elites on the top profits from it.


The Kings of the Easts Demands a Reform and Return to the Currency Gold Backing

In 2010, the Lord has raised up China and Russia (today's Kings of the East) to challenge and put an end to Mystery Babylon's 70 years domination that took stride after the World War II. The US dollar became the world currency then only because the nations agreed to make the US dollar the World currency having it backed by GOLD. (see video link below for more details) This was establish with the Breton Wood Agreement in 1944. However, the GOLD backing part of the 1944 Agreement was gutted out after the Vietnam War in 1971. The US Government (via their Elites handlers) made GOLD obsolete. That's when the DEBT machine grew exponential bigger having the ability to print money to infinity and beyond.

This was crazy and very unfair for all other nations. So that's why China, Russia and over 50 nations allies ask to bring back the GOLD backing as it was established in 1944 and reform the system to make it transparent, accountable, and fair for all other nations.

Originally Posted By: kland
It's best to encourage everyone to go in debt to support the system, to make it last long enough for you. An individual wins by not being in debt. A local government or nation could win and be out of debt as long as the others keep in debt. One doesn't have to buy what they can't afford.

Some individuals or even some municipalities can stay out of debt; but I see it impossible for a nation as a whole to be debt free.
You lack some perspective and understanding in your analysis.

Originally Posted By: kland
But as hinted at in the video, work is the true value. If it wasn't for the people working, this Ponzi scheme wouldn't work. Shuffling IOUs (nor gold) doesn't produce things.

Even if a nation produce a whole bunch of stuff, you cannot escape the basic fact that the private banks LOANS the nation's money at INTEREST that is impossible to pay off.

Originally Posted By: kland
Hey, how about going into debt to buy pavement? If enough people do that, the scheme could last a little longer.

Too bad you do the same error as the Israelites of old, the Muslims (via Abraham's teachings passed down to Ishmael) , the Christians, and the Jews of today --- reading the Bible passages LITERALLY when the Lord was very EXPLICIT telling us He speaks in "dark speeches" -- chiydah H2420 that means "a puzzle"(Num 12:8). In another word, the Lord's language is filled with symbolism (or types and shadows) that needs to be solved.


James Davidson’s Analysis

I just viewed James video Analysis which I highly recommend viewing. Very informative. Below is Stephen Jones comments and summary about it.

Quote:
James Davidson is a founding member and head of the National Taxpayers Union. In the late 1980’s everyone laughed at him when he predicted the collapse of the Soviet Union. But he was right. Now he openly talks about the replacement of the US dollar within the coming year. He says that China and Russia have a four-step plan:

1. Ignore the Bretton Woods Agreement and begin trading in their own currencies, rather than in US dollars. Since Nixon in 1971 had already decided to ignore Bretton Woods by abandoning the gold standard, the US could only complain hypocritically.

2. Create their own International Monetary Fund (IMF). They did so by creating the AIIB in 2015.

3. Create their own global currency (that is, a basket of currencies including the yuan).

4. Sell US dollars (bonds) and trigger the collapse of the US dollar.

The first two items on the list have been completed. The third is nearing completion, which will then allow them to collapse the US dollar itself. This will cause the rest of the nations to lose confidence in the dollar, and they will then demand a new world currency—which is ready to be implemented by the AIIB.

Fallout from the Demise of the Dollar

According to Davidson, we will see seven results of the demise of the dollar.

1. The dollar value will collapse

2. Prices will double

3. Unemployment will triple

4. Social Security and Medicare will suffer and perhaps end

5. Taxes will double as the government’s money tree will be gone

6. Real estate values will plummet by 50%

7. Stocks will collapse by 60-80%

The link below gives some background on Davidson himself and also provides a one-hour video that is very informative. At the end, he advertises some of his books that tell you how to protect yourself from the “Day of Reckoning.” The problem, of course, is that he shares the problem and its causes, but wants you to buy his books to learn the solution. This video is essentially an advertisement, but it also contains much useful information.

http://thesovereigninvestor.com/exclusives/americas-day-reckoning-exposed/?z=497177


The link video is provided in the half end part of the page.

http://thesovereigninvestor.com/exclusives/americas-day-reckoning-exposed/?z=497177

or try this link to go straight to the video.

http://pro.strategicinvestment.com/NDPCUR1/PNDPS429/?h=true

James explains how the US dollar became the world currency. And it wasn't because of "hard work". This video reflects back on what happened historically to other leading world currencies (Rome, Netherlands, and the British). In each of these past occurence, when their currencies lost their value, they lost their worldwide dominance and got replaced by another.

This historical dominating currency collapse scenario is repeating again. This time with the US dollar. However in the new system every country will be able to exchange between each other for their currency will be backed by gold. So, the gold setting will be the exchangeable rating between two countries for trades and contracts. No more exchanging with a dominating currency like it is today with the US dollar.

No one can dispute with the fact that the US dollar is currently collapsing before our eyes. Many experts expects that we are only weeks or months away of this collapse and the US dollar loosing their dominance. Some say that it will loose up to 90% of its value during the collapse.

The when is when China and its allies will form more than 70% of the world economy. That's no later than the end of 2016 when 27 countries expects to ratify their membership in the AIIB by then. Currently the AIIB have 57 members that represents 62% of the world economy. So they are not very far from their goal. That's when it will be official that the US dollar will loose its worldwide leading position.

When the US dollar will loose its value, I'm afraid no one will be seeing some "gold pavement" in heaven other than, a few going there in the Spirit but shortly returning back to earth -- like it was when Ellen White went to heaven. If you go, I doubt very much you will be able to bring back some gold bricks from heaven to help your situation on earth. I wouldn't count on it. I've never heard anyone bringing back anything from heaven after visiting in the Spirit. Have you?


Blessings
Re: Does anyone really know how the economy works now? [Re: Elle] #181149
07/24/16 11:12 AM
07/24/16 11:12 AM
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Elle  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Oops, my link in this post didn't fully work. Here's the link to Helen Brown proposed Jubilee Solution. The Jubilee solution is found in her article BREXIT and the Derivatives Time Bomb.


The Banks Derivatives Time Bomb

The Derivatives Market Time Bomb is estimated to be at least 700 Trillions which are really Bank Debts derived from the stock market. The real amount is still not in the open yet. Nor this has been put on the nations debt tally yet--- as according to the Banks by-laws, the people has to bail them out. The banks are seriously in debt themselves with their casino spending addictions -- much worst than any national debts.

Last year, China & their allies put pressure on the Banks to provide a viable disaster plan in the case of Bankruptcy. Of course, their disaster plan provided was for the people to bail them out. That wasn't a viable solution, so they have until this coming fall to provide a viable solution... and if they have none by then, they will have to start liquidating their operation. So this deadline is coming this fall.

I can't find the post right now that has the media article about this. When I'll find it I'll post it here as this is an important article and coming event.

------------------------------------

Originally Posted By: Elle
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Just to touch on one point I would be concerned with; I can't see instituting the Jubilee! Do you?

Yes I do. And not only me but many economist, financial and political experts thinks so too. I think it is the only solution if you seek to bring restoration after an unjust tyrannical debt system that enslaved the inhabitants of the world.

1. Here's a reasonable suggestion how to implement a Jubilee with the US treasury Bonds [debt note that is worthless] posted recently in another discussion :Jubilee Solution proposed by Helen Brown

2. Two Historical TYPES with many Jubilee elements was implement in the past after a destruction of a kingdom. I believe these are TYPES(prophecy) of things to come.

....a) The Jubilee type at the Exodus of Egypt : Egypt not only had the Israelites as slaves, but had made many others from other nations as slaves. Their economic rested on the production of their slaves. Today's Mystery Babylon's system is similar (see video above) but it is more deceiving making the slaves unaware that they are slaves. When the Lord freed the Egyptian slaves; they did not come out empty handed but with the "spoils" of Egypt.

AV Ex 3:21 And I will give this people favour in the sight of the Egyptians: and it shall come to pass, that, when ye go, ye shall not go empty: 22 But every woman shall borrow of her neighbour, and of her that sojourneth in her house, jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment: and ye shall put [them] upon your sons, and upon your daughters; and ye shall spoil the Egyptians.

....b). After the Fall of Babylon in 537 BC : We are told that the captives nations, including the nation of Judah, were free to return to their homeland after the collapse of Babylon. Plus we are told that Cyrus funded the restoration of the nations cities and temples as accounted for in the Bible for the nation of Judah in the book of Ezra.

One place this account is found is in the clay cylinder of Cyrus telling of his Babylonian conquest. Here's a summary of it :

Quote:
This clay cylinder is inscribed in Babylonian cuneiform with an account by Cyrus, king of Persia (559-530 BC) of his conquest of Babylon in 539 BC and capture of Nabonidus, the last Babylonian king.

Cyrus claims to have achieved this with the aid of Marduk, the god of Babylon. He then describes measures of relief he brought to the inhabitants of the city, and tells how he returned a number of images of gods, which Nabonidus had collected in Babylon, to their proper temples throughout Mesopotamia and western Iran. At the
same time he arranged for the restoration of these temples, and organized the return to their homelands of a number of people who had been held in Babylonia by the Babylonian kings.
Although the Jews are not mentioned in this document, their return to Palestine following their deportation by Nebuchadnezzar II, was part of this policy.

This cylinder has sometimes been described as the 'first charter of human rights', but it in fact reflects a long tradition in Mesopotamia where, from as early as the third millennium BC, kings began their reigns with declarations of reforms.


My discernment : Because a Jubilee Type was given twice in Biblical history, and one of these is after the destruction of Babylon -- I do expect that after the destruction of Mystery Babylon the same occurrence will happen because the Lord linked up the fall of Mystery Babylon with old Babylon by name and in Rev 16:12.


Blessings
Re: Does anyone really know how the economy works now? [Re: Alchemy] #181166
07/25/16 09:43 PM
07/25/16 09:43 PM
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kland  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Quote:
In 2010, the Lord has raised up China and Russia (today's Kings of the East) to challenge and put an end to Mystery Babylon's 70 years domination that took stride after the World War II. The US dollar became the world currency then only because the nations agreed to make the US dollar the World currency having it backed by GOLD.

How does Gold change anything if a nation borrows in gold? They would have only so much physical gold. How does it work if they want to spend more than they have?

Re: Does anyone really know how the economy works now? [Re: kland] #181169
07/26/16 06:38 PM
07/26/16 06:38 PM
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Alchemy  Offline OP
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Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: kland
Quote:
In 2010, the Lord has raised up China and Russia (today's Kings of the East) to challenge and put an end to Mystery Babylon's 70 years domination that took stride after the World War II. The US dollar became the world currency then only because the nations agreed to make the US dollar the World currency having it backed by GOLD.

How does Gold change anything if a nation borrows in gold? They would have only so much physical gold. How does it work if they want to spend more than they have?
(bold emphasis mine)

This is always the question! What if they print more currency or borrow more than the value of the gold they hold in reserve? Gold and silver are in too short of supply! How do you allow your population to grow? How do you allow your economy to grow?

Re: Does anyone really know how the economy works now? [Re: Alchemy] #181176
07/27/16 10:05 PM
07/27/16 10:05 PM
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kland  Offline
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Posts: 6,416
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People would get poorer and poorer, some would gather more for themselves. Sounds a lot like the current situation. While fabricating money out of thin air is not right, changing it to gold or silver doesn't really change things. That's why a receipt for work done is best no matter what material that receipt is made of. You want more, you work more.

Re: Does anyone really know how the economy works now? [Re: kland] #181204
07/29/16 09:43 PM
07/29/16 09:43 PM
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Elle  Offline
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Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: kland
Quote:
In 2010, the Lord has raised up China and Russia (today's Kings of the East) to challenge and put an end to Mystery Babylon's 70 years domination that took stride after the World War II. The US dollar became the world currency then only because the nations agreed to make the US dollar the World currency having it backed by GOLD.

How does Gold change anything if a nation borrows in gold?

The Federal Reserve will be removed. No more private banks lending "paper money" or the same old system under some new garment of "gold money". What is talked about is all countries will print their own money -- meaning no more lending fiat currencies by outside private banks with interest (which is usury).

Countries were told since 2010 that the Gold standard stipulated in the Breton Wood Act needs to be brought back but they will remove a world controlled by a dominating currency like it was with the USD and before that the English pound, and before that the dutch money.

Also they(China & allies) wants to bring back the Steagall Glass Legislation into effect that prevented corruption by the commercial and investment Banks. Only by reinstating these two legislations, it will make a big difference from how things operates today.

Originally Posted By: kland
They would have only so much physical gold. How does it work if they want to spend more than they have?

There's many entities that plays into this as far as I've been hearing. I don't know what is rumor or factual plans but will list them.

First, there's talks from 4 different sources that the price of gold will be jumped to at least $5000 per oz. This will increase the value of gold each countries have in reserve to decrease their debt and allow to print more money.

Second, there will be a re-evaluation of all currencies in the world. All currencies of the Western allied countries like US, Canada, Europe, Japan, etc... their value are very hyped. Whereas other countries that has been bullied by the US Millitary because they weren't conforming with their banking system handlers; thus besides being destroyed by war, their currencies have been ridiculously de-evaluated (like Vietnam, Iraq, etc...). There's lots of governmental preparation to increase the value of their currency quite significantly.

Third, what I understand, not only gold reserve holdings will mark the value of a country, but also their GDP and most likely their natural resources.

All in all, no matter how good, fair, and pure the Chinese and its allies will figure out their new system may be ; it can slowly become corrupt by changing the by-laws or re-interpretating them by men with un-pure motives.

But my hunch is the biggest problem they will encounter immediately after the fall of Mystery Babylon, is that since Mystery Babylon create such an enormous problem; that the solution to it won't be so simple to fix. Plus, since they(most nations' leaders) do not know God's perfect economical system described in the law(even Christian doesn't understand it); I expect that the Chinese & allied nations new system will be lacking in many ways and will be in need of constant revision as the nations learns about God's laws.

I based this expectation from Daniel 2 and Isaiah 2:

Daniel 2 prophecies that after the destruction of the last Beast Kingdom (=Mystery Babylon), the next kingdom will be ruled by the Saints of the Most High. (Dan 7:18,22,25,27) This new kingdom is not the same as the Chinese and its allies new kingdom. God's new kingdom will be establish on earth and will start very small but will grow into a huge mountain that will come to fill the whole earth.("... and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth." Dn 2:36). Also Daniel 2:44; 7:18 says that this new kingdom will last for ever and ever and will not be replaced by another.


Whereas, Isaiah 2 prophecies say that the nations will flow to God's mountain to be taught the law.

AV Isa 2:2 "And it shall come to pass in the last days, [that] the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem."


To me these prophecies points that all the nations as they flow up to the mountain of God to find God's solution to their problem, will eventually joined the Kingdom of God during the coming millennium when the Saints of the Most High will have their robes of glory and will know perfectly the law with the mind of Christ.

Since Dan 2:35 says the stone kingdom will start small and eventually filled the whole earth; thus it might take the whole 1000 years for all the nations to join the Kingdom of God. And only then we will have a perfect world wide economic system that will be founded on the perfect law of God.


Blessings
Re: Does anyone really know how the economy works now? [Re: Elle] #181221
07/30/16 10:20 AM
07/30/16 10:20 AM
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Alchemy  Offline OP
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Posts: 2,264
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$5,000.00 per ounce of gold won't be enough for the situation in the USA.

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