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Re: Does Christ repeat the Sabbath commandment? [Re: kland] #180763
06/12/16 10:57 PM
06/12/16 10:57 PM
Daryl  Offline

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Originally Posted By: kland
Why is that question relevant to Hebrews 3 and 4?

The Sabbath is also a sign of rest in Jesus.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Does Christ repeat the Sabbath commandment? [Re: Rick H] #180770
06/13/16 02:13 AM
06/13/16 02:13 AM
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Alchemy  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rick H
..or why isn't it laid out directly?

Because its not stated in many declarations of the Commandments in many of the New Testament text on is such as the rich young ruler or others, some claim that the Sabbath doesnt exist anymore because Christ didnt teach it or repeat it as part of the Commandments, so what did Jesus say?

According to the following verse I’d say that Christ had every intention that His Sabbath would still be observed after His death:

Matthew 24:20 - But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

The context of this verse is that Christ was warning the disciples about the destruction of Jerusalem, which occurred in 70 AD at the hands of the Roman army. Christ prophesied that this event would happen and it did (Christ is never wrong). Why would Christ be concerned that people observe the Sabbath day at a time that would have been about 40 years after His death if His death was supposed to abolish it? Simple, He wouldn’t be concerned if that were the case – but since the Sabbath, like all His Commandments last forever, He was very concerned and told them to pray concerning it.

Also, the Holy Spirit expressly calls it the “Sabbath day” in Acts 13:14. Aren’t the words of the Holy Spirit good enough since the Holy Spirit is the one who now convicts us of our sin?

Christ clearly taught that "the sabbath was made for man." Mark 2:27. The fact is that Adam was the only man in existence at the time God made the Sabbath. Jesus was the One who made the Sabbath in the first week of time. There was a reason for His claim to be Lord of the Sabbath day (Mark 2:28). If He is the Lord of the Sabbath day, then the Sabbath must be the Lord's day. John had a vision on "the Lord's day," according to Revelation 1:10. That day had to be the Sabbath. It is the only day so designated and claimed by God in the Bible. In writing the Ten Commandments, God called it "the sabbath of the Lord." Exodus 20:10. In Isaiah He is quoted as saying, "The sabbath, My holy day." (Isaiah 58:13).

We must not overlook the fact that this God who created the world and made the Sabbath was Jesus Christ Himself. John wrote: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth." John 1:1-3, 14.

Paul clearly identified Jesus as the Creator, "... his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood.... For by him were all things created." Colossians 1:13-16.
For Christians to separate Jesus from the Sabbath, who made it as the Creator for man, is wrong.

Mary, Christ’s mother, observed the Sabbath “according to the commandment” after Christ’s death.(See Luke 23:56) And I don't think anyone would argue that Mary was most certainly Christian.

The Sabbath commandment did not have to be repeated because the people to whom Jesus Christ and the apostles taught and preached would never have let it cross their minds that it needed to be repeated. It was foremost in their minds every Sabbath.

Jesus Christ and the apostles lived and taught in a culture that definitely knew about and kept the Sabbath. Jesus’ confrontations with the Pharisees were over how to observe the Sabbath, never over whether to observe it as the Pharisees had twisted it with all their oral traditions and rules.

Christ clearly shows He did not abolish it in Matthew 5:17...

"17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."


Then we see Christ say what people have done in following 'tradition' and not God, Mark 7:6-9...

"6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition..."

Christ the Creator of man and the Sabbath and Writer of the 10 Commandments with His own finger was the Lord of the Sabbath, and made it for us, Mark 2:27-28.....

"27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath."

But why would Jesus not just say it directly and save us all the headaches, questions and issues that have arisen on the observance of the Sabbath?


The fourth commandment is not quoted in Hebrews 4:10, but, it is directly referenced to. Also, when Christ was talking to the rich young ruler, He didn't mention the first commandment either? Does that mean we don't have to keep that commandment? Of course not.

The fourth commandment is honored by Christ in His life and in the lives of His apostles. That is more than clear enough.

Re: Does Christ repeat the Sabbath commandment? [Re: Daryl] #180776
06/13/16 09:44 PM
06/13/16 09:44 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Daryl
Originally Posted By: kland
Why is that question relevant to Hebrews 3 and 4?

The Sabbath is also a sign of rest in Jesus.
While that's true, what relevance does that have with the point the writer is making in Hebrews 3 and 4?

Re: Does Christ repeat the Sabbath commandment? [Re: kland] #180780
06/14/16 04:11 AM
06/14/16 04:11 AM
dedication  Offline
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Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: dedication
What is the Sabbath a sign of?
Base answer on the Biblical explanation of what the Sabbath is a sign of.

The Sabbath shall be a sign ...........
Why is that question relevant to Hebrews 3 and 4?


It has everything to do with the topic of Hebrews 3-4.

According to Ezekiel 20, the Sabbath is a sign that we acknowledge and know it is God that saves and sanctifies us. He is our God, and we are His people.

This is where true spiritual rest lies -- in a life fully committed in trust and obedience to God.

Hebrews skillfully weaves the two concepts of spiritual rest and Sabbath rest into one.
They must be woven together in our lives as well.

Though Israel stayed in their tents on the Sabbath, and though Israel, under Joshua entered what was to be the "land of rest" yet they did not enter into the rest God wanted to give them.

Some may argue that they didn't enter the rest because Jesus is the rest and He had not yet come in Moses and Joshua's day. But that is NOT the reason given -- they did not enter because of their unbelief. The rest was available to them, but they did not enter because of unbelief and because of the deceptiveness of sin.

That rest comes from an abiding relationship with our Creator. He it is that sanctifies and gives spiritual rest to everyone who accepts Him and walks with Him in trust and obedience.

The Sabbath, when truly entered into, is a sign, as well as an experience in the spiritual rest found in Christ.

"There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God," Hebrews 4:9 (King James Version).
This is an incorrect translation, rooted in bias against the Holy Seventh-day Sabbath day of God.

The previous verses in Hebrews 3 and 4 use the word katapausis which means rest.

But the word translated “rest” in Hebrews 4:9 is not katapausis its is sabbatismos.


The Anchor Bible Dictionary states regarding the meaning of sabbatismos:


“The words ‘sabbath rest’ translate the [Greek] noun sabbatismos, a unique word in the NT. This term appears also in Plutarch … for sabbath observance, and in four post-canonical Christian writings … for seventh day ‘sabbath celebration’ ” (p. 855)

While sabbatismos is a noun, the verb form of the word is sabbatizo, which means, "to keep the Sabbath" (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament).

This definition of sabbatizo is confirmed by its use in the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Old Testament dating from third century BC. Jews used the Septuagint in synagogues throughout the Roman Empire; Greek-speaking Jewish and Gentile coverts to Christianity used this translation throughout the early New Testament period. This is why the apostle Paul quoted from the Septuagint in his epistle to the Hebrews, which went to all the true churches of God - Jew and Gentile.

When Paul used sabbatismos in Hebrews 4:9, he did so knowing that its meaning was well known to the Greek-speaking believers of that day.

Throughout the entire Septuagint, the verb sabbatizo is used only in relation to "Sabbath-keeping." Understanding this definition, the KJV translators translated sabbatieite as, "shall ye celebrate your sabbath." However, they deliberately did not translate sabbatisomos that way in Hebrews 4:9 proabably because of their Sunday keeping bias -

Consequently, this verse (4:9) should be translated correctly as the original Greek meant, "There remains, therefore, Sabbath-keeping for the people of God" - Jew and Gentile alike.


“Hebrews 4:3-11 affirms that physical ‘sabbath rest’ (sabbatismos ) is the weekly outward manifestation of the inner experience of spiritual rest ( katapausis ) as we have accepted God as our God, and abide in Him. The Sabbath rest is a foretaste of the final rest, yet is is experienced already ‘today’ (4:7).

Thus ‘sabbath rest’ combines in itself creation, sanctifying restoration, salvation-experience, with Christ, and includes the anticipation of total restoration and rest at the coming of Christ.

Re: Does Christ repeat the Sabbath commandment? [Re: dedication] #180781
06/14/16 09:35 AM
06/14/16 09:35 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
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Originally Posted By: dedication
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: dedication
What is the Sabbath a sign of?
Base answer on the Biblical explanation of what the Sabbath is a sign of.

The Sabbath shall be a sign ...........
Why is that question relevant to Hebrews 3 and 4?


It has everything to do with the topic of Hebrews 3-4.

According to Ezekiel 20, the Sabbath is a sign that we acknowledge and know it is God that saves and sanctifies us. He is our God, and we are His people.

This is where true spiritual rest lies -- in a life fully committed in trust and obedience to God.

Hebrews skillfully weaves the two concepts of spiritual rest and Sabbath rest into one.
They must be woven together in our lives as well.

Though Israel stayed in their tents on the Sabbath, and though Israel, under Joshua entered what was to be the "land of rest" yet they did not enter into the rest God wanted to give them.

Some may argue that they didn't enter the rest because Jesus is the rest and He had not yet come in Moses and Joshua's day. But that is NOT the reason given -- they did not enter because of their unbelief. The rest was available to them, but they did not enter because of unbelief and because of the deceptiveness of sin.

That rest comes from an abiding relationship with our Creator. He it is that sanctifies and gives spiritual rest to everyone who accepts Him and walks with Him in trust and obedience.

The Sabbath, when truly entered into, is a sign, as well as an experience in the spiritual rest found in Christ.

"There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God," Hebrews 4:9 (King James Version).
This is an incorrect translation, rooted in bias against the Holy Seventh-day Sabbath day of God.

The previous verses in Hebrews 3 and 4 use the word katapausis which means rest.

But the word translated “rest” in Hebrews 4:9 is not katapausis its is sabbatismos.


The Anchor Bible Dictionary states regarding the meaning of sabbatismos:


“The words ‘sabbath rest’ translate the [Greek] noun sabbatismos, a unique word in the NT. This term appears also in Plutarch … for sabbath observance, and in four post-canonical Christian writings … for seventh day ‘sabbath celebration’ ” (p. 855)

While sabbatismos is a noun, the verb form of the word is sabbatizo, which means, "to keep the Sabbath" (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament).

This definition of sabbatizo is confirmed by its use in the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Old Testament dating from third century BC. Jews used the Septuagint in synagogues throughout the Roman Empire; Greek-speaking Jewish and Gentile coverts to Christianity used this translation throughout the early New Testament period. This is why the apostle Paul quoted from the Septuagint in his epistle to the Hebrews, which went to all the true churches of God - Jew and Gentile.

When Paul used sabbatismos in Hebrews 4:9, he did so knowing that its meaning was well known to the Greek-speaking believers of that day.

Throughout the entire Septuagint, the verb sabbatizo is used only in relation to "Sabbath-keeping." Understanding this definition, the KJV translators translated sabbatieite as, "shall ye celebrate your sabbath." However, they deliberately did not translate sabbatisomos that way in Hebrews 4:9 proabably because of their Sunday keeping bias -

Consequently, this verse (4:9) should be translated correctly as the original Greek meant, "There remains, therefore, Sabbath-keeping for the people of God" - Jew and Gentile alike.


“Hebrews 4:3-11 affirms that physical ‘sabbath rest’ (sabbatismos ) is the weekly outward manifestation of the inner experience of spiritual rest ( katapausis ) as we have accepted God as our God, and abide in Him. The Sabbath rest is a foretaste of the final rest, yet is is experienced already ‘today’ (4:7).

Thus ‘sabbath rest’ combines in itself creation, sanctifying restoration, salvation-experience, with Christ, and includes the anticipation of total restoration and rest at the coming of Christ.
















Very powerful post, dedication.

Re: Does Christ repeat the Sabbath commandment? [Re: Rick H] #180788
06/15/16 08:47 AM
06/15/16 08:47 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline
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Posts: 1,168
Alberta, Canada
Amen, dedication!


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Does Christ repeat the Sabbath commandment? [Re: Rick H] #180797
06/17/16 04:11 PM
06/17/16 04:11 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,118
Nova Scotia, Canada
Definitely a very good and a very powerful post!!!


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Does Christ repeat the Sabbath commandment? [Re: Rick H] #180874
06/28/16 09:51 PM
06/28/16 09:51 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Yes, powerful post, but does it relate to what the text is trying to say?

Did Joshua not give the Israelites the 7th day Sabbath?
Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.

Or was it that Jesus prevented them from keeping the 7th day Sabbath?
Heb 3:11 So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest.'

Heb 3:18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey?


Were the ones being spoken to in Hebrews not keeping the 7th day Sabbath, that it remains for the future?
Heb 4:9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.

How does one labor to enter the 7th day Sabbath?
Heb 4:11 ¶ Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.


Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need
Why did he say that? Can we only come boldly to the throne of grace only on the 7th day Sabbath?


Sorry, not buying it. You are suggesting Hebrews directly establishes the 7th day Sabbath. I disagree with that as much as I do with Sunday keepers using the verses in a similar fashion. Except you are taking liberties Sunday keepers do not even attempt. The 7th day Sabbath is only indirectly implied. The author is talking about something way beyond a weekly rest.

Re: Does Christ repeat the Sabbath commandment? [Re: Rick H] #180877
06/29/16 01:51 AM
06/29/16 01:51 AM
dedication  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,411
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Hebrews is skillfully weaving the two concepts of spiritual rest and Sabbath rest together.

The reason you, Kland have a hard time seeing this, is because you have separated the two. In your mind it must be either the spiritual rest OR the Sabbath rest. Of course the text doesn't make sense if we separate the two.


Quote:
Did Joshua not give the Israelites the 7th day Sabbath?
Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.


Joshua did not give them "rest", he was only a human being, he could only lead them to the "rest" but he couldn't make them "rest".
Under Joshua they entered what was to be the "land of rest" and they also had the day of rest--
Yet because of their unbelief and hardness of heart they did not enter into the rest God wanted to give them.
They COULD HAVE --

3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
3:2 the gospel was preached.. unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard.

Quote:
Or was it that Jesus prevented them from keeping the 7th day Sabbath?
Heb 3:11 So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest.'


Jesus could not bless them with His rest, either with the blessing that came from true Sabbath keeping, or with the blessing of rest that He wanted to bless them with in the promised land.
Why?

3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
4:2 the gospel was preached.. unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard.

This spiritual rest as well as the Sabbath rest was ordained for mankind at creation:
4:4 And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

It was there --
They COULD HAVE entered in.

That rest comes from an abiding relationship with our Creator. He it is that sanctifies and gives spiritual rest to everyone who accepts Him and walks with Him in trust and obedience.

The Sabbath, when truly entered into, is a sign, as well as an experience in the spiritual sanctifying rest found in Christ.

Quote:
Heb 3:18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey?

They DID enter the promised land -- but didn't enter the "rest".

Exactly because they did not obey.

Isaiah 57:20 But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt.
57:21 There is no peace [or rest], saith my God, to the wicked.

They found no rest in the promised land, nor in their Sabbath keeping, because their hearts weren't with their Savior, and they weren't walking with Him in obedience.
There is no rest for the disobedient.

Quote:
Were the ones being spoken to in Hebrews not keeping the 7th day Sabbath, that it remains for the future?
Heb 4:9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.

We already belabored that point.
First the text uses a totally different word

Heb. 4:9 There remains therefore a SABBATISMOS (Sabbath keeping) for the people of God.

The word there is NOT the word "rest" but SABBATISMOS.
Please don't ignore the fact that the author of Hebrews uses a completely different word here.

Following a few Sabbath rules is not observing the 7th day Sabbath or finding the sanctifying rest it affords in Christ.

The ones spoken to in Hebrews came from background in which the Sabbath had been made a burden with so many rules it was hardly a day of sanctifying rest with the Creator God.
Yes, they needed to be instructed on the real meaning of Sabbath rest and how it is intricately interwoven with the spiritual rest in Christ.

That rest comes from an abiding relationship with our Creator. He it is that sanctifies and gives spiritual rest to everyone who accepts Him and walks with Him in trust and obedience.

The Sabbath, when truly entered into, is a sign, as well as an experience in the spiritual rest found in Christ.

Hebrews 4:4 And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Ex. 31:15 Six days may work be done; but the seventh isthe sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD.

Quote:
How does one labor to enter the 7th day Sabbath?
Heb 4:11 ¶ Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.


By being in an abiding relationship with their Creator and Savior all week long as they go about their daily work, then on Sabbath they rest in trust and faith, in HIM.

Hebrews 4:4 And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
And according to Genesis 2, He blessed that day and sanctified it. and in Ex. 20 He asks us to remember the seventh day and follow His example of working six days and resting on the day He made holy.

Quote:
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need
Why did he say that? Can we only come boldly to the throne of grace only on the 7th day Sabbath?

We need to come boldly every day before God's throne of grace to find the spiritual rest. It is by coming to the throne of grace, that makes the Sabbath rest truly meaningful, because we then understand the meaning of the Sabbath rest-- a sign of Christ's sanctifying power and we can rest in the promise that He who has begun a good work in us will complete it to that day.

Without coming to the throne of mercy and grace we can't find any rest even if we keep rules, we would find ourselves in the same place as the Israelites who didn't find the rest in their promised land, in their temple services or in the Sabbath.

Today is that "other day" -- the rest is still available --
Don't put off coming into that rest.

Re: Does Christ repeat the Sabbath commandment? [Re: kland] #180879
06/29/16 07:34 AM
06/29/16 07:34 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2011
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Originally Posted By: kland
Yes, powerful post, but does it relate to what the text is trying to say?

Did Joshua not give the Israelites the 7th day Sabbath?
Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.

Or was it that Jesus prevented them from keeping the 7th day Sabbath?
Heb 3:11 So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest.'

Heb 3:18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey?


Were the ones being spoken to in Hebrews not keeping the 7th day Sabbath, that it remains for the future?
Heb 4:9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.

How does one labor to enter the 7th day Sabbath?
Heb 4:11 ¶ Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.


Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need
Why did he say that? Can we only come boldly to the throne of grace only on the 7th day Sabbath?


Sorry, not buying it. You are suggesting Hebrews directly establishes the 7th day Sabbath. I disagree with that as much as I do with Sunday keepers using the verses in a similar fashion. Except you are taking liberties Sunday keepers do not even attempt. The 7th day Sabbath is only indirectly implied. The author is talking about something way beyond a weekly rest.
(bold emphasis mine)

dedication wrote;

"The previous verses in Hebrews 3 and 4 use the word katapausis which means rest.

But the word translated “rest” in Hebrews 4:9 is not katapausis its is sabbatismos.


The Anchor Bible Dictionary states regarding the meaning of sabbatismos:


“The words ‘sabbath rest’ translate the [Greek] noun sabbatismos, a unique word in the NT. This term appears also in Plutarch … for sabbath observance, and in four post-canonical Christian writings … for seventh day ‘sabbath celebration’ ” (p. 855)

While sabbatismos is a noun, the verb form of the word is sabbatizo, which means, "to keep the Sabbath" (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament)."

Understanding the correct word and its definition applies directly to the topic at hand! This rest in Christ being spoken in Hebrews 3 and 4 is directly connected to the keeping of the Seventh day Sabbath.

I don't see how this point can be missed!

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Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

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Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

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and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
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