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More vegans in the news . . . #180990
07/12/16 01:31 AM
07/12/16 01:31 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Some of the news stories below highlight individuals who, so far from getting the praise at the end of a 10-day vegan diet which Daniel and his friends received, are getting hospitalized or interred. I have much sympathy for the infants involved who are so dependent on their parents.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morn...laborative_1_na

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morn...or-frostbitten/

http://www.thelocal.it/20160629/two-year-old-in-serious-condition-after-being-raised-vegan

http://www.mensfitness.com/nutrition/what-to-eat/5-nutrients-vegans-dont-get-enough

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/trends/being-vegan-is-a-health-risk/259715.html

http://myfox8.com/2016/07/11/1-year-old-...n-from-parents/

Perhaps the bottom line is this: It is an unhealthful and unsafe practice nowadays to be entirely vegan without supplements. Either accept your pills, or, as Ellen White says, use some milk and/or eggs, of which she comments "you must not deprive yourself of that class of food which makes good blood."

Folks still continue to prove her to be right!

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: More vegans in the news . . . [Re: Green Cochoa] #180992
07/12/16 02:21 AM
07/12/16 02:21 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
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Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Some of the news stories below highlight individuals who, so far from getting the praise at the end of a 10-day vegan diet which Daniel and his friends received, are getting hospitalized or interred. I have much sympathy for the infants involved who are so dependent on their parents.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morn...laborative_1_na

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morn...or-frostbitten/

http://www.thelocal.it/20160629/two-year-old-in-serious-condition-after-being-raised-vegan

http://www.mensfitness.com/nutrition/what-to-eat/5-nutrients-vegans-dont-get-enough

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/trends/being-vegan-is-a-health-risk/259715.html

http://myfox8.com/2016/07/11/1-year-old-...n-from-parents/

Perhaps the bottom line is this: It is an unhealthful and unsafe practice nowadays to be entirely vegan without supplements. Either accept your pills, or, as Ellen White says, use some milk and/or eggs, of which she comments "you must not deprive yourself of that class of food which makes good blood."

Folks still continue to prove her to be right!

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We do need to understand that modern farming does deplete the soil of minerals. Juicing and supplements do a great job of furnishing minerals and nutrients to the body.

Re: More vegans in the news . . . [Re: Green Cochoa] #180993
07/12/16 03:54 AM
07/12/16 03:54 AM
APL  Offline
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Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Strange that Green does not include all the people that die of heart disease, stroke, diabetes and cancer which by huge percentages can be reduced by following the counsel given by God. of but focuses on just a few cases. Why is that Green? Strange that you imply that Daniel only undertook his diet for 10 days! That was only the trial. After seeing their state, Daniel was allowed to continue. And he was 10 times that of his heathen compatriots. How many people subsist on the diet that those looking for translation should be eating and are thriving!

June 28, 1898

"Evangelistic Temperance. What Is Not Good Food" The Advent Review and Sabbath Herald 75, 27 , p. 408.

IV

IF, in reading up on this important subject, you find yourself using some of the things that are named as injurious, do not fly to the other extreme, and go to starving yourself by dropping everything at once, without putting that which is better in its place. To do that is only to perpetuate the evil; for an impoverished diet will produce the same results as flesh-meats and rich food,—it will create a poor quality of blood. See "Testimonies for the Church," Vol. II, page 368.
{June 28, 1898 ATJ, ARSH 408.1}

"We would not recommend an impoverished diet. I have been shown that many take a wrong view of the health reform, and adopt too poor a diet. They subsist upon a cheap, poor quality of food, prepared without care or reference to the nourishment of the system. It is important that the food should be prepared with care, that the appetite, when not perverted, can relish it. Because we from principle discard the use of meat, butter, mince pies, spices, lard and that which irritates the stomach and destroys health, the idea should never be given that it is of but little consequence what we eat. There are some who go to extremes. They must eat just such an amount and just such a quality, and confine themselves to two or three things. They allow only a few things to be placed before them or their families to eat. In eating a small amount of food, and that not of the best quality, they do not take into the stomach that which will suitably nourish the system. Poor food can not be converted into good blood. An impoverished diet will impoverish the blood."—Id., page 367.
{June 28, 1898 ATJ, ARSH 408.2}

"These changes should be made cautiously, and the subject should be treated in a manner not calculated to disgust and prejudice those whom we would teach and help."—Id., page 370.
{June 28, 1898 ATJ, ARSH 408.3}

Let us turn, then, to the consideration of—
{June 28, 1898 ATJ, ARSH 408.4}

WHAT IS GOOD FOOD

Yes, let us find what is the best food, and enjoy ourselves to the full on that, in order that we may have the best of health, and enjoy ourselves in every other right way. what, then, is good? What shall we find to put in the place of all these things that are not good to eat in this time? Here is is:—
{June 28, 1898 ATJ, ARSH 408.5}

"Grains and fruits prepared free from grease, and in as natural a condition as possible, should be the food for the tables of all who claim to be preparing for translation to heaven."—Id., page 352.
{June 28, 1898 ATJ, ARSH 408.6}


"Fruits and grains, prepared in the most simple form, are the most healthful, and will impart the greatest amount of nourishment to the body, and, at the same time, not impair the intellect."—Id., page 400.
{June 28, 1898 ATJ, ARSH 408.7}
Those who discard meat "need to supply its place with the best fruits and vegetables, prepared in the most natural state, free from grease and spices. If they would only skillfully arrange the bounties with which the Creator has surrounded them, parents and children with a clear conscience unitedly engaging in the work, they would enjoy simple food, and would then be able to speak understandingly of health reform."—Id., page 486.
{June 28, 1898 ATJ, ARSH 408.8}

"God has furnished man with abundant means for the gratification of natural appetite. He has spread before him, in the products of the earth, a bountiful variety of food that is palatable to the taste and nutritious to the system. Of these our benevolent heavenly Father says that we may 'freely eat.' We may enjoy the fruits, the vegetables, the grains, without doing violence to the laws of our being. These articles, prepared in the most simple and natural manner, will nourish the body, and preserve its natural vigor without the use of flesh meats."—Id., Vol. III, page 50.
{June 28, 1898 ATJ, ARSH 408.9}

Adopt the free use of these things, and you will find that all those other things will drop away and never be missed. Then health, such as the Lord desires that you shall have, enjoyment of life, and prosperity in all the things of God, will be yours. For "I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereith."
{June 28, 1898 ATJ, ARSH 408.10}


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: More vegans in the news . . . [Re: Green Cochoa] #180995
07/12/16 08:33 PM
07/12/16 08:33 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,416
Midland
In other news, Green denies the validity of the Bible and misrepresents Ellen White. Besides failing to read the articles he linked.

Re: More vegans in the news . . . [Re: APL] #180999
07/13/16 02:16 PM
07/13/16 02:16 PM
A
Alchemy  Offline
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Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
APL wrote;

"Strange that Green does not include all the people that die of heart disease, stroke, diabetes and cancer which by huge percentages can be reduced by following the counsel given by God. of but focuses on just a few cases. Why is that Green? Strange that you imply that Daniel only undertook his diet for 10 days! That was only the trial. After seeing their state, Daniel was allowed to continue. And he was 10 times that of his heathen compatriots. How many people subsist on the diet that those looking for translation should be eating and are thriving! "

Powerful statement APL.

But, it does happen that once in a while some one changes their diet to vegan without really understanding the issues. Consequently, they don't get the results that they should. These days, so many people in the world eat vegan that the information is much more readily available.

Re: More vegans in the news . . . [Re: Alchemy] #181000
07/13/16 03:08 PM
07/13/16 03:08 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
APL wrote;

"Strange that Green does not include all the people that die of heart disease, stroke, diabetes and cancer which by huge percentages can be reduced by following the counsel given by God. of but focuses on just a few cases. Why is that Green? Strange that you imply that Daniel only undertook his diet for 10 days! That was only the trial. After seeing their state, Daniel was allowed to continue. And he was 10 times that of his heathen compatriots. How many people subsist on the diet that those looking for translation should be eating and are thriving! "

Powerful statement APL.

But, it does happen that once in a while some one changes their diet to vegan without really understanding the issues. Consequently, they don't get the results that they should. These days, so many people in the world eat vegan that the information is much more readily available.


Alchemy,

APL's statement is misleading. The counsel given by God does not lead to veganism, as much as he prefers to see it that way. Read Ellen White for yourself and you will find that God's counsel leads to a lacto-ovo vegetarian diet. In the final moments, when God tells us to do so, we may have to give up the milk and eggs entirely, but to give them up too soon, Mrs. White says, will lead to premature death.

What APL says about all of those other diseases has some truth to it, but it ignores the equal truth that the overall mortality among vegans is equal to that of the meat eaters. These studies have been published and are available online. They prove, once again, how right Mrs. White was. She tells us to prepare people for the time when they may need to cook without milk and eggs, but at the same time she forbids us to teach people to give up the milk and eggs. Repeatedly, she advocates for them, eggs in particular, as long as you can secure them from healthy hens. Veganism leads to imbalanced health that causes a hasty descent to the grave when once a cancer takes hold. Vegans die of cancer where others may not. It is true that vegans have far less diabetes and heart disease. But why do vegans have double the risk of cervical cancer? We don't know all of the reasons, yet. But we know that Ellen White spoke the truth, and we have been told not to give up milk and eggs until God reveals to us that it is time to do so--which may be an individual decision.

The question I would, therefore, ask of any vegan is simple: Did God tell you to give up the milk and eggs?

Regardless of the answer, I would also tell anyone that, according to Mrs. White, you are not to teach anyone else to give up the milk and eggs. She gives us this message repeatedly. Many vegans today are missionaries for their veganism, like the woman who died on Mt. Everest hoping to prove to the world that vegans can do anything (see news link from earlier post). As Adventists, we are to have no such message. Our message is that of the third angel.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: More vegans in the news . . . [Re: Green Cochoa] #181001
07/13/16 03:59 PM
07/13/16 03:59 PM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Alchemy - Green has an agenda. He believes he must eat eggs and that veganism nearly killed him. He has also been confused on the types of B12 deficiencies and his confusion has been pointed out to him on several occasions, and he had even contradicted himself on the topic. He has claimed that B12 deficiency happens very quickly, "I was vegan for 7 months when I started having symptoms." It is unusual to happen that quickly. He has said, "There is a name for the condition I had, pernicious anemia", but then said "I don't remember saying I had pernicious anemia". Yes, it is confusing.

It is true, that EGW did say that trying to force a strict diet on the poor could result is worse health for them. But note, it was the poor. Perhaps Green had his computer are considered poor, and thus he justifies himself in condemning anyone who does not eat like himself.

Consider the following quotes of EGW:

"Those who are in a position where it is possible to secure a vegetarian diet, but who choose to follow their own preferences in this matter, eating and drinking as they please, will gradually grow careless of the instruction the Lord has given regarding other phases of the present truth and will lose their perception of what is truth; they will surely reap as they have sown." {9T 156.3}

Grains and fruits prepared free from grease, and in as natural a condition as possible, should be the food for the tables of all who claim to be preparing for translation to heaven. The less feverish the diet, the more easily can the passions be controlled. Gratification of taste should not be consulted irrespective of physical, intellectual, or moral health.
{2T 352.1}

Here is a note by someone I have met and spent time with numerous times:

Malnourished Vegan Baby? - Two-year-old hospitalized after being raised vegan (headlines July 12, 2016)

Why did this case of malnutrition get a title that condemns potentially the healthiest way of eating - if the diet is starch based and incorporated with mother's milk from 6 months to 2 years of age? Certainly the dairy and meat industries got a big promotion. And, as I often say, "people love to hear good news about their bad habits."

This is a repeat of a similar story from 2007 printed in the NY Times, that received world wide attention. It was titled: Death by Veganism. Parents were convicted of murder of their 6 week old child by feeding him a diet of apple juice and soy milk.

See:
http://www.drmcdougall.com/health/educat...-by-veganism/

The details in this 2007 article will help you understand the current publication.

In contrast there are thousands of children who die every year from complications caused by eating meat, dairy, and other junk foods. These never make headlines. Plus hundreds of millions of children suffer with obesity, constipation, and arthritis, to name a few well-known affects of standard eating practices.

John McDougall, MD


"The Lord desire, through His people, to answer Satan's charges by showing the result of obedience to right principles. He desires our health institutions to stand as witness for truth. They are to give character to the work which must be carried forward in these last days in restoring men through a reformation of the habits, appetites, and passions. Seventh-day Adventists are to be represented to the world by the advanced principles of health reform which God has given us." {Ms166-1899 1.9}


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: More vegans in the news . . . [Re: Alchemy] #181003
07/13/16 09:58 PM
07/13/16 09:58 PM
K
kland  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,416
Midland
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
APL wrote;

"Strange that Green does not include all the people that die of heart disease, stroke, diabetes and cancer which by huge percentages can be reduced by following the counsel given by God. of but focuses on just a few cases. Why is that Green? Strange that you imply that Daniel only undertook his diet for 10 days! That was only the trial. After seeing their state, Daniel was allowed to continue. And he was 10 times that of his heathen compatriots. How many people subsist on the diet that those looking for translation should be eating and are thriving! "

Powerful statement APL.

But, it does happen that once in a while some one changes their diet to vegan without really understanding the issues. Consequently, they don't get the results that they should. These days, so many people in the world eat vegan that the information is much more readily available.

Alchemy,

To say Green's statement is misleading would be an understatement.

And yes, you're correct, many do choose a diet without understanding the issues. Read Green's first link. It says that eating vegan isn't the problem, but stupid people are. There's nothing wrong with the diet, but with how some people choose to implement it. Ellen White says the same thing:

Provide Nourishing Food

Some of our people conscientiously abstain from eating improper food, and at the same time neglect to eat food that would supply the elements necessary for the proper sustenance of the body. Let us never bear a testimony against health reform by failing to use wholesome, palatable food in place of the harmful articles of diet that we have discarded. Much tact and discretion should be employed in preparing nourishing food to take the place of that which has constituted the diet of many families. This effort requires faith in God, earnestness of purpose, and a willingness to help one another. A diet lacking in the proper elements of nutrition brings reproach upon the cause of health reform. We are mortal, and must supply ourselves with food that will give proper sustenance to the body. {MM 273.3}

And as much as Green wishes, it does not mean eggs.

The question is, do we now know how to supply the place of that which is discarded? Green suggests that we will never know how until right before the Lord comes.

But it's apparent, Green likes eggs and does not hesitate to promote them. Something for him:

We find in every such instance a good reason why they cannot live out the health reform. They do not live it out, and have never followed it strictly, therefore they cannot be benefited by it. Some fall into the error that because they discard meat, they have no need to supply its place with the best fruits and vegetables, prepared in their most natural state, free from grease and spices. If they would only skillfully arrange the bounties with which the Creator has surrounded them, parents and children with a clear conscience unitedly engaging in the work, they would enjoy simple food, and would then be able to speak understandingly of health reform. Those who have not been converted to health reform, and have never fully adopted it, are not judges of its benefits. Those who digress occasionally to gratify the taste in eating a fattened turkey or other flesh meats, pervert their appetites, and are not the ones to judge the benefits of the system of health reform. They are controlled by taste, not by principle. {CD 399.1}


Do you recall Green saying he's had brain damage from a vitamin deficiency?

But you're not brain dead are you? Think through it. Consider APL's post. Lot's of people are eating a vegan diet. If eating vegan leads to death or malnourishment, there would be lot's of people that way. Are there? If someone dies from eating meat (or eggs) does that mean no one can eat it? Taking the extremes does not mean a generality.

Green is dangerous. He thinks eating minimal amount eggs will supply all his B12. When pointed out how many one needs to eat to get the B12, he objects and says he follows Ellen White. Ellen White says nothing about getting B12 from eggs. The danger is blindly promoting you don't need to worry if you eat eggs.

I do so like
green eggs and ham!
Thank you!
Thank you,
Sam-I-am

Re: More vegans in the news . . . [Re: Green Cochoa] #181004
07/13/16 10:05 PM
07/13/16 10:05 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,416
Midland
The diet reform should be progressive. As disease in animals increases, the use of milk and eggs will become more and more unsafe. An effort should be made to supply their place with other things that are healthful and inexpensive. The people everywhere should be taught how to cook without milk and eggs, so far as possible, and yet have their food wholesome and palatable. {CCh 225.4}

Does that sound like never?
Does that sound like not teaching people to give up milk and eggs?

Re: More vegans in the news . . . [Re: Green Cochoa] #181005
07/14/16 12:06 AM
07/14/16 12:06 AM
APL  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: green
Regardless of the answer, I would also tell anyone that, according to Mrs. White, you are not to teach anyone else to give up the milk and eggs.

Originally Posted By: EGW
The diet reform should be progressive. As disease in animals increases, the use of milk and eggs will become more and more unsafe. An effort should be made to supply their place with other things that are healthful and inexpensive. The people everywhere should be taught how to cook without milk and eggs, so far as possible, and yet have their food wholesome and palatable. {MH 320.2}


So you see, Green is promoting going directly contrary to the instructions God has given us through Ellen White. As an Adventist, this is a dangerous thing.

Originally Posted By: green
But why do vegans have double the risk of cervical cancer?
Cervical cancer is a sexually transmitted disease. What does science show? Consider the following:
http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/ffl/newsletter/national-cervical-cancer-awareness-month
http://nutritionfacts.org/2014/03/18/why-do-vegan-women-have-fewer-female-cancers


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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