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Re: More vegans in the news . . . [Re: APL] #181217
07/30/16 07:28 AM
07/30/16 07:28 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: APL
Yes - milk is fine - - in her day. Is it safe today? You are welcome to it. The evidence is out there - are you going to continue to ignore it? Has the situation changed? Shall we use common sense?

You are the one ignoring Mrs. White. I am following her. She says clearly no one's diet should be made the criterion for others to follow.

I've used no cheese for many years. I drink no milk, and haven't for nearly decades now. I do, on occasion, encounter milk as an ingredient in some of the foods I eat. I am less privileged in my location with respect to food options than you may be. I do, for the bacteria specifically, eat yogurt once in awhile. That would be a few times a year. You are not following Mrs. White's counsel on the diet question. You are attempting to force others to your view, when, in fact, Ellen White said this should NOT be done.

Both of us will one day face our words again--in judgment. I hope you can feel confident that God will bless your course. I would not feel so confident if I were in your position. I advocate balance. Mrs. White was clear that we are not to go to extremes, which is what she called veganism, until the Lord Himself revealed it.

He has not revealed it to me. I cannot say whether or not He may have revealed it to you. But I am certain of one thing: He has not revealed to you that you should tell everyone else to follow your diet. Common sense tells me that God would not contradict Himself.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: More vegans in the news . . . [Re: Green Cochoa] #181228
07/30/16 08:24 PM
07/30/16 08:24 PM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: green
You are the one ignoring Mrs. White. I am following her. She says clearly no one's diet should be made the criterion for others to follow.
My last quote of EGW tells me you may indeed be not following her advice. And no, God has not contradicted Himself, on many topics! Perhaps, I need to now take the advice of Hosea 4.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: More vegans in the news . . . [Re: Green Cochoa] #181241
08/01/16 07:42 PM
08/01/16 07:42 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,416
Midland
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
She says clearly no one's diet should be made the criterion for others to follow.
Good advice. Please follow it.

Quote:
You are not following Mrs. White's counsel on the diet question. You are attempting to force others to your view, when, in fact, Ellen White said this should NOT be done.
Good advice. Please follow it.

Quote:
Both of us will one day face our words again--in judgment. I hope you can feel confident that God will bless your course. I would not feel so confident if I were in your position.
Good advice. Please follow it.

Who started this thread for what purpose?
Who jumps at most every chance to plug eggs?
Who is it that urges others to eat eggs?

Hmmmm.

Who needs to be confident when standing before their maker and how they will explain to Him the untold amount of harm and damage to both body and soul they have caused others by urging faulty and misleading advice upon them? And for the apparent purpose of self-justification of making their diet their personal idol.

Hmmmm. Indeed.

Quote:
Mrs. White was clear that we are not to go to extremes, which is what she called veganism, until the Lord Himself revealed it.

He has not revealed it to me.
But yet you feel it is revealed that everyone still needs eggs. When asked before, you refused to say what would be a sign for you that it's time to give up eggs. Do you have one now? Otherwise, it comes across as being impossible for you to know when it's time to give up eggs.

Quote:
I cannot say whether or not He may have revealed it to you. But I am certain of one thing: He has not revealed to you that you should tell everyone else to follow your diet. Common sense tells me that God would not contradict Himself.
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
She says clearly no one's diet should be made the criterion for others to follow.
Good advice. Please follow it.

Re: More vegans in the news . . . [Re: Green Cochoa] #181245
08/02/16 12:24 AM
08/02/16 12:24 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
kland,

If you feel I am making my own diet a criterion for others, you are greatly mistaken. I have said very little regarding my own diet here, and that merely to clarify a few points. It appears that, in place of clarifying, I have thrown you a stone of stumbling. I apologize for this.

While I advocate very strongly the views of Mrs. White, some here are advocating an opposite policy. While Mrs. White was balanced, many in both her day and ours were/are not. Mrs. White's visions given her showed her that eggs were a suitable treatment for the sick. Do you suppose that such medicinal advice from God is no longer valid?

Some ask me when I would say that the time has come to give up milk and eggs. WHY DO YOU ASK ME? Mrs. White said that the LORD would reveal it. Ask HIM. Why do I not know what I would say would constitute "a sign"? Because it would be presumptuous of me to suppose God would descend to my level and give me the sign I demanded.

I see others here as following the same course of presumption that I do not wish to enter. Some here make claims that because of such and such conditions in our world today, they must now teach people to do away with milk and eggs. Did God tell them this?

Has GOD told you that it is time to give up the milk and eggs?

I don't know the answer, only you can know. But I do know this: God has not told you to tell anyone else to give them up. Mrs. White was clear on that point.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: More vegans in the news . . . [Re: Green Cochoa] #181248
08/02/16 01:31 PM
08/02/16 01:31 PM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: green
If you feel I am making my own diet a criterion for others, you are greatly mistaken. I have said very little regarding my own diet here, and that merely to clarify a few points.
Is it not ironic that we know more about green's diet that either my own or kland's?
Originally Posted By: green
God has not told you to tell anyone else to give them up. Mrs. White was clear on that point.
I don't think EGW has said anything about what God had told us, and green is claiming to know the will of God, is he a prophet?

Has green ever treated a person with severe vascular disease such that they can't walk 25 feet because of leg pain?

Has green ever treated a person with diabetes who now has neuropathy in the legs leading to pain?>

Has green ever treated a person who has been blinded by diabetic retinopathy?

Has green ever treated a person with ischemic cardiomyopathy such they cannot walk up a single flight of stairs?

Has green ever treated a person with a stroke? Kidney failure? Depression? Cancer of the breast, bowel or prostate?

Green mocks health care, but quotes a few articles on supposed problem with a vegan diet, yet ignores the real problem that is all around us where many orders of magnitude more problems are caused by diet, which if implemented would help to alleviate the legend of diseases that afflict us and could result is greatly reducing real costs associated with the resultant medical care. I will do as EGW has told us to do in teaching others health reform.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: More vegans in the news . . . [Re: Green Cochoa] #181250
08/02/16 10:40 PM
08/02/16 10:40 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,416
Midland
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
kland,

If you feel I am making my own diet a criterion for others, you are greatly mistaken. I have said very little regarding my own diet here, and that merely to clarify a few points. I
Green, you started this thread with a purpose of making a criterion for others.

Quote:
While I advocate very strongly the views of Mrs. White, some here are advocating an opposite policy.
Green, no one here is urging an opposite policy. Those here are objecting to you making your choice of diet a criterion for others.

Quote:
Some ask me when I would say that the time has come to give up milk and eggs. WHY DO YOU ASK ME? Mrs. White said that the LORD would reveal it. Ask HIM. Why do I not know what I would say would constitute "a sign"? Because it would be presumptuous of me to suppose God would descend to my level and give me the sign I demanded.
We're asking you what would it take to indicate God is telling you to give up milk and eggs. You are responding, there's no sign possible He could give you.

(You remind me of evolutionists in more than a few ways. There is nothing that could possibly be discovered for them to believe in a creator - their premise definition of evolution)

Re: More vegans in the news . . . [Re: Green Cochoa] #181273
08/10/16 02:06 PM
08/10/16 02:06 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
I started this thread with vegans in the news. In most of those, the vegans were merely getting "bad press." Here are some more. In these cases, they are facing legal trouble, and/or jail time. Would they be able to stay vegan in jail?

http://tri-cityherald-odd-chatter.tri-ci...za-credit-card/

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle...ted-italian-law

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37034619

https://www.rt.com/news/355348-vegan-parents-law-children/

http://www.newsweek.com/italy-could-imprison-parents-who-impose-veganism-their-children-488687

NOTE: These latest news pieces appear to be but ripples from the effects of the earlier ones.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: More vegans in the news . . . [Re: Green Cochoa] #181274
08/10/16 02:40 PM
08/10/16 02:40 PM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
I hope your Bible study is not like the pick-and-choose with news articles of this thread to support your own personal dietary desires, for the the truth becomes very obscure. The popular press has taken up the theme that "carbs are bad" and protein is good. And scientific studies have been published that say white rice is associated with an increase in diabetes. The "Green" title would be that white rice causes diabetes and maybe we should jail parents who feed their children white rice.

The following is from Dr. Rosane Oliveria's blog, of the University of California Davis (UC Davis) August 10, 2016.

The single most important staple food on the planet, rice currently feeds almost 50 percent of the world’s population.

Americans alone consume an average of a half-cup of cooked rice daily, more than three times of what they ate in the 1930s.

While white rice consumption is not linked to an increased risk of heart attack or stroke, it does seem to be associated with a higher incidence of diabetes.

Specifically, a meta-analysis of seven studies spanning two decades and 350,000 people showed an association between higher intake of white rice and an elevated rate of type 2 diabetes. It concluded that a single white rice serving per day could increase the risk of diabetes as much as 11 percent. It also noted that risk of developing diabetes was particularly high in Asian populations.

Japan has a higher incidence of diabetes relative to the US despite having eight times less obesity, while the Chinese diabetes rate rivals that of Americans (10 percent for China, 11 percent for the US) even though the former is seven times less obese.

Up until the year 2000, the Chinese enjoyed one of the lowest diabetes rates in the world. What has really changed in the last two decades is an increased consumption of animal-based foods.

Over the past 20 years, pork intake rose a dramatic 40 percent, oil consumption went up 20 percent and the amount of rice in the diet dropped 30 percent!

Since diabetes skyrocketed even though rice consumption decreased, this begs the question: Is the increase in diabetes linked to white rice or the rise of animal food intake?

Moreover, the dramatic uptick in diabetes incidence may also be explained by a little-known fact: combining animal protein with a refined carbohydrate like white rice sends your insulin soaring.

For example, if you feed people mashed white potatoes (a starchy, high carbohydrate food like white rice) and then add an animal protein like tuna fish to the meal, you get twice the insulin spike. Similar results are seen when you combine white flour spaghetti with meat.

Simply put, the addition of the animal protein will make the pancreas work overtime.

It is not the rice, it is the animal products. Should we jail everyone who feed their children meat? Green?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: More vegans in the news . . . [Re: Green Cochoa] #181276
08/12/16 04:26 PM
08/12/16 04:26 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,416
Midland
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
NOTE: These latest news pieces appear to be but ripples from the effects of the earlier ones.
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
She says clearly no one's diet should be made the criterion for others to follow.

Re: More vegans in the news . . . [Re: Green Cochoa] #181279
08/12/16 11:08 PM
08/12/16 11:08 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
APL/kland,

You appear to be missing the title of this thread, and you appear not to have read the news pieces linked. I'll stand by what kland has quoted me saying, but will the government officials regard Mrs. White in that same manner and not send the vegans to jail?

This thread is not about rice. I'll start one about that, as APL seems interested in that topic. Most vegans don't eat it. Most rice eaters are not vegan. True vegetarianism is rare in Southeast Asia--almost unheard of. Consider that there are several forms of Buddhism, and the form that dominates Southeast Asia takes a laissez-faire attitude toward meat. This may be crucial as a protein source, because the diet is otherwise very lean on protein, particularly the amino acid lysine. And white rice also provides more protein than brown rice. (See below.) Even the monks eat meat. Where I live, people will seemingly eat anything that moves.


Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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