The SOP tells us that probation comes to a close, shortly before the Second Coming.

“Just before we entered it [the time of trouble], we all received the seal of the living God. Then I saw the four angels cease to hold the four winds. And I saw famine, pestilence and sword, nation rose against nation, and the whole world was in confusion.--7BC 968 (1846) pg 229. And also:
“.As yet the four winds are held until the servants of God shall be sealed in their foreheads. Then the powers of earth will marshal their forces for the last great battle.--6T 14 (1900).” Notice it says “we all receive the seal of the living God” and “the four winds are held until the servants of God shall be sealed in their foreheads” Next lets look at what SOP also says will happen at this time:

“The Lord has shown me clearly that the image of the beast will be formed before probation closes, for it is to be the great test for the people of God, by which their eternal destiny will be decided.”--2SM 81 (1890). pg 228

Did you pick up how it says the “great test for the people of God, by which their eternal destiny will be decided” at the time of probation closing.

Lets read more of what the SOP tells us about the image of the beast of the Last Days:

“When the early church became corrupted by departing from the simplicity of the gospel and accepting heathen rites and customs, she lost the Spirit and power of God; and in order to control the consciences of the people, she sought the support of the secular power. The result was the papacy, a church that controlled the power of the state, and employed it to further her own ends.. In order for the United States to form an image of the beast, the religious power must so control the civil government that the authority of the state will also be employed by the church to accomplish her own ends. . . . The "image to the beast" represents that form of apostate Protestantism which will be developed when the Protestant churches shall seek the aid of the civil power for the enforcement of their dogmas.--GC 443, 445 (1911).

So in what way do the daughter churches still follow the Roman Catholic church or the papacy, well we find they follow Sundaykeeping .

Now lets turn to Revelation 13 starting with verse 11:

“11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.”

Now lets see what the SOP tells us the “great test for the people of God” at the end will be:

“The Sabbath will be the great test of loyalty, for it is the point of truth especially controverted. When the final test shall be brought to bear upon men, then the line of distinction will be drawn between those who serve God and those who serve Him not.. While one class, by accepting the sign of submission to earthly powers, receive the mark of the beast, the other choosing the token of allegiance to divine authority, receive the seal of God.” {GC 605.2}

But SOP also says this about the sign or seal of God that the Gods people received:

“This is the test that the people of God must have before they are sealed. All who prove their loyalty to God by observing His law, and refusing to accept a spurious sabbath, will rank under the banner of the Lord God Jehovah, and will receive the seal of the living God. Those who yield the truth of heavenly origin, and accept the Sunday sabbath, will receive the mark of the beast”…. {Mar 164.4}

Notice it says “by observing His law, and refusing to accept a spurious sabbath” Now many Adventist tell themselves, I can delay truly giving my life to the Lord till the National Sunday Law, which SOP tells us signals at last, when Christ will be coming:

“The substitution of the laws of men for the law of God, the exaltation, by merely human authority, of Sunday in place of the Bible Sabbath, is the last act in the drama. When this substitution becomes universal, God will reveal Himself. He will arise in His majesty to shake terribly the earth. He will come out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the world for their iniquity, and the earth shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.”–Testimonies, vol. 7, p. 141.

But if Adventist brethren wait till the National Sunday Law, by this time those who are sealed of God will be decided and those who receive the Mark of the Beast set, so not much will be changed when probation closes. They will already have been lost by this time if they don't act and truly convert and follow Christ. Like the days of Noah, there will be those left on the outside because they didn’t act before the door to the ark closed, and this will happen again when the door of probation will be closed

Now speaking to Gods church the SOP says this:
“The time is not far distant when the test will come to every soul. The observance of the false sabbath will be urged upon us. The contest will be between the commandments of God and the commandments of men. Those who have yielded step by step to worldly demands, and conformed to worldly customs, will then yield to the powers that be, rather than subject themselves to derision, insult, threatened imprisonment, and death. At that time the gold will be separated from the dross. . . . Many a star that we have admired for its brilliance will then go out in darkness. Those who have assumed the ornaments of the sanctuary, but are not clothed with Christ’s righteousness, will then appear in the shame of their own nakedness.”–Prophets and Kings, p. 188. {ChS 157.2}
So at the end there will be two groups, those who follow the commandments of men, and those who keep the commandments of God, all 10 not just nine.. One will receive the “Seal of God” the other “Mark of the Beast.” The church “militant” is the church in its present state consisting of wheat and tares, the church “Triumphant” is the church consisting of wheat only, which is close.
Jesus said: “The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. . . . So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.” {TM 45.1}

The Holy Spirit is being poured out at the end time for those who would be sealed, And this seal is the holy character which the Spirit of God creates in and changes in the saints..

Probation closing whether soon after the National Sunday Law or at its coming, will not change the judgment of those lost and those saved, we must prepare before it comes

(bold emphasis mine)

I agree Rick H. We can't wait for the NSL or it will be too late. The formation of the Image of the Beast in the United States will bring the test upon God's people and I can see that coming now.

My Bible study confirms that the Judgment Hour of the dead was allotted a specific duration.

Day = 1000-years
hour = 83 years 4 months because Jesus said there are 12 hours in a day

Judgment Hour of dead 22 October 1844 till 22 February 1928
The Thyatira Church had died in 1798 and was still dead 2/22/28

From February to June 1929 the healing was in progress

On the Day of Atonement 14 October 1929 Thyatira was alive,
the deadly wound had been healed

The Judgment Hour of the Living began 14 October 1929 through 14 February 2013

The time allotted for the Judgment Hour of the Living ended when the hour allotted for the solo post 1929 popes ended.

Benedict marked the occasion by resigning.

We are in the sealing time immediately before Christ returns.

It will not be long

The time of trouble has begun, but it has not advanced to the time of Jacob's trouble. It will get worse and culminate in the time of Jacob's trouble

We do well to study God's word and seek the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

We are very close to end of time, on this point I fully agree.
I also agree we must not wait for a Sunday law to pass before taking this seriously, the sealing time is now and will soon be over. This is very present truth!!! Today is the time to seek the Lord with all our hearts, minds and souls. Today we are to lift up our heads for our redemption draweth nigh.



However, I do not believe we should set a series of dates for events after 1844. Please permit me to explain why.

1. Christ could have come ere this.
In 1883 EGW wrote == " Had Adventists, after the great disappointment in 1844, held fast their faith and followed on unitedly in the opening providence of God, receiving the message of the third angel and in the power of the Holy Spirit proclaiming it to the world, they would have seen the salvation of God, the Lord would have wrought mightily with their efforts, the work would have been completed, and Christ would have come ere this to receive His people" Ev 695

Thus all the judgment of living and dead and the sealing could have been finished ere 1883. The deadly wound could have been healed ere 1883.


2. The sealing work has been taking place in our lives for many years, it's a process, not a sudden stamped on condition. The Holy Spirit is doing that sealing work in our lives NOW if we are willing and surrendered, and just before probation closes God draws His "blanket" of protection marked with His seal over all who have submitted to the sealing process.
"Before the work is closed up and the sealing of God's people is finished, we shall receive the outpouring of the Spirit of God. Angels from heaven will be in our midst. The present is a fitting-up time for heaven when we must walk in full obedience to all the commands of God.--Letter 30, 1907. {1SM 111.3}
"Satan was trying his every art to hold them where they were, until the sealing was past, until the covering was drawn over God's people, and they left without a shelter from the burning wrath of God, in the seven last plagues. God has begun to draw this covering over His people, and it will soon be drawn over all who are to have a shelter in the day of slaughter. God will work in power for His people; and Satan will be permitted to work also.
{EW 44.2}

3. The healing of the beast's wound.

To say the wound was healed in 1929 is to deny what caused the wound in the first place. It suggests the "wound" was the losing of the Vatican States, and the healing the regaining of the Vatican States, But in 1798 the Vatican did not lose the Vatican States. It was in 1870, when the annexation of the papal territory put an official end to the Papal States. This was reversed with the Lateran Treaty of 1929, which set up Vatican City as an independent state. To say the wound was healed in 1929 one would have to say it wasn't inflicted until 1870.

However, when one realizes the wound was inflicted in 1798 when there was an official change in LAW removing from the papacy the political power to enforce religion upon the masses, then we realize the healing of the wound will come when LAWS give the papacy (and her daughters) the right to enforce religion upon the masses.

4. The time of trouble has not yet begun
Though the winds of strife are building with relentless power, they are not yet released. Though everything is being set up for oppressive laws taking away religious freedoms, they have not yet been enforced. BUT Don't wait till those winds are released to surrender your lives to God, the sealing process is NOW, and if we submit to that process God's covering of salvation will be over us when those winds are released.

We are VERY CLOSE to the end of time.
When the end comes it will strike with sudden tremendous force.

But the scene was repeated. God could have gathered His people if the had let Him. But since they did not let Him He foretold what must come upon them.

Sister White speaks of the sealing time on many occasions. The final sealing time is in connection with the THIRD ANGELS message. When that sealing angel returns to Christ, Jesus declares 'It is done!"

Review Ezekiel 9

To deny that Pius VI received the deadly wound in 1798 is to deny a clear statement from the Spirit of Prophecy:





One of his heads---The Pius head received the deadly wound (Pius VI), and the Pius head received the healing of the deadly wound (Pius XI).

Pius VI lost his position as head of church and state when he was imprisoned in 1798--he died in captivity without ever being restored, but the Pius head was restored through Pius XI in 1929.

The healing process will continue, but 1798 and 1929 fulfill prophecy sufficiently to identify the seven pope that were to rule for One Hour (83-years 4-months) from 14 October 1929 (Day of Atonement that immediately followed the healing of the deadly wound) until 14 February 2013 (when Benedict ended the solo pope papacy)

The five fallen popes (Rev 17) were:
Pius XI & XII
John XXIII
Paul VI
John-Paul I

The one that is was John-Paul II

The one for the short space was Benedict

Babylonian tradition king reigns New Year's Day (March 29 to March 28)

If the king dies anytime before 3/28 that is his final year
and the new king is in his ascension year until 3/29

John-Paul II died 4/2/05 but by Babylonian tradition, his reign was counted until 3/28/06

Benedict XVI ascension year was John-Paul II's final year

Benedict XVI began his first year 3/29/06
Benedict XVI resigned effective 2/28/13
Benedict XVI resigned 1 month and 1 day short of 7-years

7-years is the number of completeness,
By resigning less than the number of completeness
Benedict only ruled a short space

When was the deadly wound healed?

Josiah Litch

Verse 12: "And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them that dwell therein, to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed." That Bonaparte healed the deadly wound of popery, is clear from history. After the revolution of the 11th of Nov. 1799, when Bonaparte, Sieyes and Ducos, were appointed a provisional consulate, one of the first acts of reform accomplished by them was, "the discarding of the HEATHEN RITUAL, and the re-opening of the churches for Christian wohship; and of this the credit was wholly Napoleon's, who had to oppose the philosophic prejudices of almost all his colleagues."-[Lockhart's Napoleon, Vol. I., p. 154.] {1842 JoL, PREX1 107.2}

The same month the college of cardinals was convened and entered on the election of a new pope; succeeded in the election of pope Pius VII., March 1, 1800. Thus Bonaparte exercised, as the pope had done, supreme power in the church, overruling all his associates, and restoring popery. He caused the earth, by this exercise of power, to worship the beast whose deadly wound was healed. {1842 JoL, PREX1 107.3}

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Uriah Smith

This wounding is the same as the going into captivity. Revelation13:10. It was inflicted when the pope was taken prisoner by Berthier, the French general, and the papal government was for a time abolished, in 1798. Stripped of his power, both civil and ecclesiastical, the captive pope, Pius Vl, died in exile at Valence in France, Aug. 29, 1799. But the deadly wound was healed when the papacy was re- established, though with a diminution of its former power, by the election of a new pope, March 14, 1800. (See Bower's History of the Popes, pp. 404-428; Croly on the Apocalypse, London edition, p. 251.) {1897 UrS, DAR 563.3}

The deadly wound was healed. To say the head was dead until 1929 would be to deny the significant events involving the Papacy in the 19th century. The event to come is the 2-horned beast, the United States paying homage to the beast and the Sunday laws.

Litch and Smith did a wonderful work in their time, But knowledge is to increase.

Knowledge has increased.
Revelation 17 has revealed the 5 popes who where fallen, the one that was and is to be the 8th, and the one that continued for a short space.

All of that had not happened in their day and they could not compare it to their understanding until it happened.



This is my explanation of that paragraph:

Those who become confused in their understanding of the Word [that Daniel 7 is about Presidents Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, and Obama], who fail to see the meaning of antichrist [Obama is the last President-King of the North who will turn against the Covenant and God's people], will surely place themselves on the side of antichrist. There is no time now for us to assimilate with the world. Daniel is standing in his lot and in his place [The endtime meaning of Daniel is upon us]. The prophecies of Daniel and of John are to be understood. They interpret each other. They give to the world truths which every one should understand. These prophecies are to be witnesses in the world. By their fulfillment in these last days they will explain themselves [when the things happen that were foretold, there will be no doubt as it has happened with Revelation 18-- Benedict resigned because or the priest's loose loins/fornication scandal, the king of the earth Obama has accepted their fornication as the new norm in marriage, and Brexit]. {7BC 949.6}

If the deadly wound was healed prior to 1929, why was the pope not ruling his papal states in 1929?

Why was the Roman Question even a QUESTION in 1929 if the deadly wound had been healed in the 1870's?

Mrs White lived until 1914. Why did she not affirm that the deadly wound had been healed prior to her death? She had no difficulty stating when it was inflicted and naming the specific pope (Pius VI) who received the deadly wound.

There is a problem with the idea that the deadly wound was healed before 1914.

Excellent post, dedication.

I completely agree that 1929 could NOT be the healing of the deadly wound.

There is merit in having the right message at the right time.

But too often the specifics that are needed are not cherished as much as the generalizations that are of not of sufficient value.

For example: When we begin a journey, it is sufficient to know the destination and get on the right route. But when we near our destination, specific turns and land marks become more important. The superhighway or friendly skys will take us to LA, but the city map is needed to get us to the specific address.

And sometimes even those who follow the directions to the T do not realize that they did not understand the directions until they are supposed to be at their destination and only then discover that they are lost.

It is Present Truth that the RC has priests that have been seduced by fornication (male with male) and that the Apostate Protestant Churches have become corrupted by this specific form of fornication as a new standard in the marriage relationship.

President Obama has accepted this deviation from God's word as if it is gospel. The Supreme Court has adopted it as the law of the land and the Church is tolerating this abomination.

Now President Obama has a body of 23 religious advisers who have the authority to make "recommendations to the President and the Administration on changes in policies, programs, and practices"

https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/eop/ofbnp/about/council

Personally, I found the four points made by dedication to be present truth and Biblically sound.

I do not find her as enlightened as you seem to... It is the Holy Spirit's job to lead us to all truth. I'll not trouble you if you are satisfied with dedication's presentation...

Daniel 11:40-45; 12:1 describes the time right before the close of probation. I have not seen this happen yet, the events could happen quickly. These verses give us the final waymark to know what is happening in the Heavenly Sanctuary.

you are not old enough to remember it.
Daniel 11 starts with the 3 kings in Persia (Cyrus, Darius, and Artaxerxes) who issued the decrees to rebuild the temple (the 2300-year prophecy spilled out verse by verse).
And 12:1 is Christ standing for His people in 1844 ( at the end of the 2300-years).

Then the command in Revelation 10 to prophesy again is a command to repeat the prophecy in Daniel 11.

So you would mean Pius VI was the 5th head?


And therefore Pius XII would be the 7th head.

You are right, I did not live back when Cyrus, Darius and Artaxerxes lived. But your interpretation of Daniel 12:1 is not in line with the Adventist interpretation of that verse. Daniel 12:1 is not 1844, but the close of the 3rd Angel's Message and the close of probation and the time of trouble. (See The Great Controversy, Chapter 39). EGW clearly states that Michael has not yet stood up in the time after 1844: I saw that Michael had not stood up, and that the time of trouble, such as never was, had not yet commenced. I saw that the nations are now getting angry, but when our High Priest has finished His work in the sanctuary, then He will stand up, put on the garments of vengeance, and then will the seven last plagues be poured out. {Ms2-1849} "When Michael stands up this trouble will be all over the earth." {Ms1-1848} How my soul is drawn out for the State of Michigan, planning day and night, dreaming and waking, to arouse our brethren to see and to seize the opportunities within our reach, before Michael shall stand up, before probation closes. . {Lt38-1886} I won't now quote other Adventist Pioneers which plainly state the meaning end of Daniel 11 and Daniel 12 and it does not match your above interpretation.

Perhaps the most troubling part of your claims is that it is about your tweets, your interpretations, your claims. Your claims are not about Christ but about you. Why is that? There is a message to proclaimed, and many reject this truth.

It is the darkness of misapprehension of God that is enshrouding the world. Men are losing their knowledge of His character. It has been misunderstood and misinterpreted. At this time a message from God is to be proclaimed, a message illuminating in its influence and saving in its power. His character is to be made known. Into the darkness of the world is to be shed the light of His glory, the light of His goodness, mercy, and truth. {COL 415.3}

This is the work outlined by the prophet Isaiah in the words, "O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God! Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and His arm shall rule for Him; behold, His reward is with Him, and His work before Him." Isaiah 40:9,10. {COL 415.4}

What happens when Obama is out of office? Will you then back peddle and come up with a different interpretation? The end events will be rapid ones. There is a work to be done now of putting off of sin and knowing God as He is. This is not dependent on Obama being in or out of office. It is not dependent on he being number 44.

Yes, the setting of times gets you into trouble real fast, just ask the Jehovah Witnesses.....

Pius VI was the head that received the deadly wound. Thus the papal beast died while he ruled. The head that received the healing was also named Pius (Pius XI)

When the papal beast was first seen it was alive and then it died. But after 1929, the papal beast is alive. Thus the prophecy moved from the dead papacy to the living papacy.

You missed a very important point in my presentation:
Then the command in Revelation 10 to prophesy again is a command to repeat the prophecy in Daniel 11.



Let me ask: What happens when Obama is still in office? When you see him implement the Mark of the Beast? Will you then back peddle and believe the interpretation? Will you then support the work that you have doubted and not spoken of very highly? The end events will be rapid ones. There is a work to be done now of putting off of sin and knowing God as He is and believing His word by faith. This is going to shake the faith of those who doubted that Obama is remaining in office. It is not dependent on him being number 44, but that is an interesting coincidence.

So you're saying Pius VI was the 5th head who received the deadly wound. Pius XII would be the 7th head. Why are you persisting otherwise?

5, 6, 7.

Count them.

Did you choose not to defend this position? No, Christ has not yet stood up, that is future and near, no have we seen the events of the end of Daniel 11 but that could happen quickly. IF Obama is still in office when the Mark of the Beast falls, ok, but I will no need to back peddle, and it is puzzling to me that you think I would need to. Your message is about your interpretation, I hope you are not disappointed. You have set a time, and if that fails, then what? I'd rather speak of the truth about God that is so resisted by so many, and many Adventists are the most resistant. A message illuminating in its scope and one that is the Eternal Gospel - the 3AM.

There is nothing to defend. Christ stood for His people on 22 October 1844, but that was not the complete final fulfillment. That will happen later.











No one has proved it to be in error from the Bible. So the Bible wins.

It is a matter of FAITH and thus rightly dividing the word.

Esigesis (the process of interpreting a text or portion of text in such a way that the process introduces one's own presuppositions )

So perhaps you can help me with sorting it out correctly?

The facts:

Daniel saw 4 sea-beasts (7:1-3)

Heaven explained 4 earth-beasts (7:17)

Traditionally the sea-beasts have been explained as the "worldwide" kingdoms (Babylon to Rome)

Revelation 13 differentiates a sea-beast from an earth-beast.

The problem:

Traditionally the sea-beasts in Daniel 7 have been taken symbolically and the earth-beasts literally. That Esigesis flies in the face of sound Bible study because the same symbolism exists in Daniel 7 as in Revelation 13 (lion, bear, leopard, sea-beast, and earth-beast) so to have the same item (and only that item) to be symbolic in one chapter and literal in the other cannot be correct.

If the traditional Esigesis that the sea-beasts in Daniel 7 are the earth-beasts stands true; then that view destroys the Eschatology, (the study of 'end things', whether the end of an individual life, the end of the age, the end of the world and the nature of the Kingdom of God) that is set forth in Revelation 13.

If the Eschatology that has been applied to Revelation 13 by Adventists in the past is correct, then the sea-beasts in Daniel 7 are the old world kingdoms that foreshadow an endtime revelation about the earth-beasts that relates to the new world.

The Scriptures don't contradict each other. The symbolic sea-beasts and earth-beasts in Daniel 7 and Revelation 13 are to be interpreted by the same standard. So if a sea-beast is an earth-beast in Daniel 7 then a sea-beast is an earth-beast in Revelation 13. If a sea-beast is different than an earth-beast in Revelation 13, then a sea-beast is different than an earth-beast in Daniel 7.

Esigesis?








Is this a salvation issue or one opinion is as good as the next?

When the call is given for the 10 virgins to go out to meet the Bridegroom, it will be a matter of life and death if we are not awake and filled with the Holy Spirit at the right time.

My tweets! They testify that I understood and understand Bible prophecy. Jesus is revealed in Bible prophecy through the Holy Spirit. When prophecy is rightly understood, Jesus is glorified. And my testimony is that Jesus gave me understanding.

If you missed that from what I said, then I did not make myself clear to you or the great foe was casting a shadow over my words to make them come across in a negative light.

There is a difference between setting times and understanding times. I shared this quote earlier, but it is worthy of repeating.



To not know Obama's role in endtime prophecy can be fatal.

As we near the close of probation there is no time for
Esigesis or for adding to the text, or for being dogmatic as to who the last president will be, etc. etc.

As we near the close of probation our focus needs to be on our relationship with Christ.
Does Christ have our full allegiance?
How does the Sabbath show who has our allegiance?

Those are questions we need to personally ask ourselves.

Probation is closing soon NO MATTER WHO THE PRESIDENT WILL BE. Obama is NOT the antichrist, whether he is still president in 2017 or not makes no difference whatsoever.

To get dogmatic on that point is only to create a lot of confusion and unsettle people on the reliability of prophecy.
Being correct on one speculative idea while being wrong on dozens of other speculative ideas on prophecy does nothing to further God's sure of prophecy.

Put away the Esigesis of speculating on last presidents and last popes, etc. etc. and dwell on the sure word of prophecy, for prophecy is sure -- speculation is shifting sand.

THE FACTS --

There are no earth beasts in Daniel 7.

In vision Daniel saw four beasts arise OUT OF THE SEA.
There are only four beasts in Daniel 7,
those four beasts rose out of the sea.

So why are you adding four additional beasts and calling them earth beasts?
THERE ARE NO EARTH BEASTS IN DANIEL SEVEN.

Daniel, in vision, saw only four beasts and they all arose out of the sea.
Daniel was troubled -- what do these four sea beasts mean?

A heavenly messenger tells him what these four sea beasts mean --they are symbolic of four actual kingdoms that will arise upon the earth.

The four sea beasts are symbols
The heavenly messenger tells Daniel the meaning of the symbols, the sea beasts are symbolic of actual kingdoms that would arise.







Symbolic beasts rise out of the sea.
They represent four actual kingdoms upon the earth.
The fourth beast out of the sea is symbolic of literal ROME.

Revelation 13 shows this symbolic sea beast which represents (Rome) continuing as papal Rome, which gets wounded and is healed with the help of a new symbolic "beast" representing a new nation, the USA (the protestants).
This new beast in Rev. 13 rises out of the earth and represents the actual "kingdom" we call the USA.
Again the "beast" is symbolic, but nation or kingdom it represents is an actual literal nation.

The Protestants reach over and join hands with the papacy and with spiritualism and bring in the last crises over worship. We are seeing that happening now --

The sure word of prophecy indicates probation is about to close --
NO MATTER WHO IS THE PRESIDENT.

your post is pretty much a rehash of what we have discussed before and I have posted the answer on a different thread that you may not have seen yet.


To answer your specific question:

Daniel 7 begins with sea beasts (Daniel 7:1-3)
The origin of these beasts is that they came out of the sea



Heaven's interpretation



Daniel saw beasts that came up out of the sea <03221> and Heaven is explaining beasts that came up out of the earth <0772>.

Digging a little deeper

There is no mention of BRASS NAILS anywhere in Daniel's vision 7:1-14.

The introduction of the brass nails is in conjunction with the interpretation of the vision as is the change of location from the sea <03221> in the vision to the earth <0772> in the interpretation.

Earth and sea are different.

You say on one thread



and then say on this thread



But Daniel said that he saw SEA BEASTS and Heaven explained EARTH BEASTS. Different words sea <03221> earth <0772> DIFFERENT BEASTS

The post that you may have missed on the other thread is as follows:


Dedication,
Thank you for graciously taking the time to answer my question.
we agree on this point



The problem remains





Daniel saw sea-beasts--Heaven explains earth-beasts

Revelation 13 uses the same symbolism as Daniel 7
lion, bear, leopard, sea-beast, and earth-beast

In Revelation 13 lion, bear, leopard, sea-beast, and earth-beast are all symbolic.





Yes Daniel and Revelation explain each other, but Revelation supplements Daniel. Example: Daniel saw beasts arise from the sea and Revelation 17:15 explains the gathered waters (seas) are--"The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."

So when Revelation 13 uses the same symbols as Daniel 7 and Rev 13 clearly supplements Dan 7 you agree that sea-beast and earth-beast in Rev 13 are both symbolic, BUT in Daniel 7; you hold that sea-beast is symbolic and earth-beast is literal.



That view disregards the fact that Revelation 13 indicates that both the sea-beast and earth-beast are symbolic and it is supplementing the meaning of Daniel 7. But rather than allow the Scriptures to explain themselves, you accept the traditional view that places these two texts in contradiction of each other.

You quote "The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth," Daniel 7:24 to support your position.

In 7:17 Heaven declares the earth beasts as KINGS and the translators that understand the 4 kingdom view translate Daniel's words to turn the kings back into kingdoms.

Is this a translation issue? The word translated as kingdom in 7:24 is never translated as kingdom <04437> in any other book in the Bible except Daniel and it is not always translated as kingdom in Daniel.







When Heaven declares "These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth" Why did the translators not remain consistent to Heaven's interpretation:



Reign would have been more consistent with Heavens interpretation that it is explaining 4 kings but God commanded that the meaning of Daniel was to be sealed until the endtime. Thus the translators fulfilled God's word by interjecting their understanding into their translation.

Not until the time of the 4 kings arrived could the meaning of Daniel 7:17 be understood.



So the position that Daniel 7 is about "4 symbolic sea beasts = 4 actual earthly kingdoms" cannot be correct:

1) It makes Daniel 7 contradict Revelation 13
2) Is does not follow the pattern of Revelation 13 that supplements Daniel 7
3) The book of Daniel was sealed until the endtime--the kingdom view was established hundreds of years before the endtime--it cannot be the meaning that was unsealed in the endtime
4) God promised to increase knowledge in the endtime
5) The translation of some words in Daniel contradict the context

We must beware of error

Making the interpretations of symbols into new symbols is NOT exegesis, it is isigesis --

The interpretation is NOT new symbolism.
One can go on into infinity with confusion changing Biblical interpretations of symbols into new symbols.

That Daniel 7 is about "4 symbolic sea beasts = 4 actual earthly kingdoms" is absolutely correct:

1) Daniel 7 does NOT contradict Revelation 13
All the beasts are symbolic of actual kingdoms both in Daniel 7 and in Revelation 13. The application is positively consistent,.

2) It consistently follows the pattern --
a beast = an actual nation or kingdom
both in Daniel 7 and in Revelation 13

The beasts that rose from the symbolic sea are four kingdoms that established their literal kingship on literal earth. Babylon, Media Persia, Grecia, Rome

Revelation 13's first symbolic beast is the continuation of those four symbolic sea beasts of Daniel 7, it is literal Rome and continues to the end as the Papal Rome, wounded for a spell, but healed.

Revelation 13's symbolic second beast rises from the symbolic earth, and establishes its literal kingship on the literal earth.

There is nothing mystical or unintelligible in any of this -- it's plain English for anyone that understands that symbols represent specific things that are literal.

The book of Daniel was unsealed in 1798- 1844 and opened the door to understanding the three angels' messages.





The message is clear -- those prophecies were correctly interpreted and are to be taught as they were interpreted.
We are warned that people will arise and think they know better and have found "new light" by re-interpreting these prophecies. They will say "Here is the truth," "I have the truth; follow me." But the warnings came, "Go not ye after them. I have not sent them, but they ran."

So "these great beasts", where did Daniel see them, where are they in reference to, if they weren't one and the same beasts Daniel just saw? Where are the land beasts explained? Isn't that what Daniel was troubled about and wanted to know?

Da 7:16 "I came near to one of those who stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me and made known to me the interpretation of these things:

Are you saying the Bible should really say, 'So he told me and made known to me the interpretation of some other things:'


Again:
So you're saying Pius VI was the 5th head who received the deadly wound. Pius XII would be the 7th head. Why are you persisting otherwise?

5, 6, 7.

Count them.

That's Greek to me



"Daniel 7 is about '4 symbolic sea beasts'" That is the vision 7:1-14

"4 symbolic sea beasts = 4 actual earthly kingdoms" = man's understanding of the vision from sound Bible study.



Heaven's interpretation of the vision in Daniel 7 states: "These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth" (7:17).

From Heavens interpretation, the vision is about "4 kings."

Kings are rulers "He shall be king in my stead: and I have appointed him to be ruler" (1 Kings 1:35).

From Heavens interpretation the 4 kings come from the "earth."

Revelation 13 explains the prophetic earth. A summary of the Bible study is in the Spirit of prophecy:



Heaven's interpretation in Daniel 7:15-28 is in total harmony with Revelation 13. And Heaven's interpretation (7:15-28) was given to explain the vision.

But you are using the traditional understanding of the vision (7:1-14) to explain the interpretation (7:15-28). When you do this, the idea that the sea-beasts = the earth-beasts destroys sound Bible study in Revelation 13 because the sea-beasts DO NOT = the earth-beasts in Revelation 13.



The pattern that you refer to is inconsistent with the prophecy because it uses an understanding of the vision 7:1-14 to reinterpret Heaven's interpretation 7:15-28.



That is true. But these kingdoms were at the start of Daniel's prophecy and they are understood by our study of the symbolism apart from Heaven's interpretation of Daniel's vision. The interpretation was sealed until the endtime when Daniel stands in his lot.

So to make a traditional understanding of the vision that was true in its day to interpret the interpretation is to say that man knows more than Heaven's spokesman who is giving the true interpretation of the vision.



When the deadly wound is healed in 1929, Revelation 13's first symbolic beast is the continuation of those four symbolic earth beasts (kings or the earth) of Daniel 7 that Heaven explained in 7:15-28. The first beast is literal Rome and continues to the end as the Papal Rome bonding with the ten kings from the earth. Truman was identified as the earth-king who called fire down from the sky thus he is the first of the 10. And the 10th in the series is Clinton. Thus Clinton is the leopard like beast, Bush I the bearlike beast, and Reagan the one with the lion's mouth (he was the Great Orator).



When the papal beast fulfilled prophecy and arrived at the 7th pope/head (Benedict XVI) and the last horn (Clinton), the second beast from the earth became the focus of the prophecy. A horn is a king. The 2nd beast has 2 horns/kings/presidents. Bush II and Obama. Bush II was ruling when Benedict XVI came into office and when he left office Obama was ruling.

The papal beast transitioned to the earth beast that only has 2 horns. Pope Francis is not depicted in this prophecy because he is not a solo head on the healed papal beast. It only had 7 solo popes that ruled from 1929 through 2013.





And the prophecies in Daniel 7 and Revelation 13 show us that President Obama will be the man to implement the Mark of the beast. He is the one that the third angel's message warns us about.

Was Nebuchadnezzar a king and ruler?
Was he the only king and ruler of Babylon?


Da 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
Da 8:20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
Da 8:21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

Question for you: Why was there no mention of Babylon?


That's not true either. Dan 7 and Rev 13 does not show us that President Obama will be the man to implement the Mark of the beast. Don't use your books to interpret Heaven's interpretation.


We can conclude that the United states will implement the image to the beast, but not the mark. The mark already exists. And is of the 4th beast rising from the little horn of the 4th beast which rose from the sea in the vision.

What is your point?
Daniel 7:17 interprets Daniel's vision as being about kings that will arise from the earth and the Bible identifies kings as rulers.


The time element in Daniel 8 is the 2300-years of 8:14
" And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed."
The 2300-years began in 457 BC That is the beginning
The 2300-years ended in 1844 so the time appointed for the last end has to be at the end of the 2300-years in 1844 or after.

Since the verb ARE does not appear in the original text that interprets the vision (It has been added by the translators) the vision has to be consulted to see what Daniel saw as the translators did which is apparent because they also added the word two which is not in the interpretation but it is in the vision. Daniel saw a ram pushing. Thus at the last end the interpretation is saying:

"The ram which thou sawest having horns pushing at the kings of Media and Persia."

And since the interpretation of Daniel 7 was about 4 kings from the earth, the question is what 2 kings from the earth are pushing at Medo-Persia at the last end of indignation?


Again the translators added words to this text: "And the rough goat [is] the king of Grecia: and the great horn that [is] between his eyes [is] the first king."
Considering the added words and going back to the vision the text as it relates to the last end would read:
"And the rough goat [came at] the king of Grecia: and the great horn that [is] between his eyes [is] the first king."


Because the vision is not about Babylon, it is about 4 horns/kings or endtime American Presidents. The ram has a horn and a second greater horn that came up last (not indicating that they were on the beast at the same time). And the goat had a great horn that was broken and it grew another horn that waxed great= two successive horns (the 4 notable ones were never identified as "horns").




Obama's presidency completes the number 666.

You will not have to wait much longer to see how much of a blessing my book could have been to you if you had only valued it rightly.


There is a great blessing coming to those who rightly divide the word of truth.

Because Babylon ended. Nebuchadnezzar was a king and ruler and "head". He wasn't the only king and ruler of Babylon, the head that ended.

Because that is true, When Daniel told Nebuchadnezzar Thou art this head of gold, the king was the first in a dynasty:

Nebuchadnezzar = gold
Evil-Meridoch = silver
Neglessar =brass
Nabomidus & Belshazzar = iron legs that mingled
with the clay (church craft)

Thus Cyrus who is a type of Christ
toppled the kingdom like Christ (the Stone) will

When Daniel said (a more accurate translation IMHO)

38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.
39 And after thee shall arise another REIGN OF THE LAND to thee, and another third REIGN of brass, which shall bear rule over all the LAND.

44 And in the days of these kings [Nebuchadnezzar's dynasty] shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom [Medo-Persia that foreshadows God's kingdom], which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. {the days: Chaldee, their days&#8201;} {the kingdom: Chaldee, the kingdom thereof&#8201;}

Thus Daniel 2 is about kings until Daniel 7 repeats and enlarges its meaning to expand its meaning to include kingdoms.

The repeat and enlarge principle begins Daniel 2 as kings, then expands it to mean kingdoms, and turns the focus back to kings (presidents) in the endtime.

You can look up the texts and compare it to the original language yourself if you are interested.

This thread seems to have derailed into a discussion of the deadly wound rather than if probation has closed.

I think that in order to determine IF probation has closed it needs first to be established that it WILL close, an idea I have trouble finding support for in the Bible. It seems to be a uniquely Adventist idea, because when I did a Google search on it, the first three pages returned were ENTIRELY Adventist web sites. There were no pages sponsored by any other religious group, either for or against.

So, I am not convinced that it will close. Jesus said "I will be with you always, even unto the end of the world." (Matt. 28:20)

I believe that Jesus is truthful. What will be will be at the appointed time.

Ah..OK.
So there appears to be no support for the idea of probation closing then.

Nadi, you are right on one point, this thread has been derailed, but it's not concerning the "deadly wound" so much as "His Child"'s private interpretation of prophecy in which he is sure Obama is prophesied as the last president and feels everyone MUST accept that interpretation -- he's rather taken over several threads to promote that idea.

As to the close of probation,
Scripture does tell us a time is coming when:



When that proclamation is made in heaven, there is no more probation -- no more turning or changing our spiritual status.

I agree that Christ will not leave His people, He has promised to be with us till the end, He does not forsake His people -- but probation will still be closed.


The signs sweeping the world right now, are showing the great distress that IS prophesied as happening just before the end.

The world is in serious trouble
I believe we are at the edge of eternity --
Probation however, has NOT yet closed, today is still the day of salvation, don't wait to fully accept Jesus as Savior and Lord of your life, today is the time to make our calling and election sure,

lift up your heads for your redemption draweth near--
no matter who the president will be -- (whether Obama somehow stays in, or another one takes that position does not change the fact we are near the end)

If that one text is the sole support for the idea of a close of probation then that doctrine is on fairly shaky ground.

Probation does not close until after the mark of the beast is implemented. Knowing who is going to implement the MoB is something that God has been pleased to reveal in His word.

The present Truth is the right message at the right time. What good is it to know that probation is closed after it has closed? Knowing the events that lead up to the close of probation are helpful, but is that not like seeing how close we can get to it without going too far?

I cannot imagine why anyone would not want to know what God has placed in His word for our benefit. Or why anyone would down play Present Truth or insinuate that those who are giving the right message at the right time are promoting a private interpretation.

The word private in 2 Peter is idios. Same root as idiot or idiotic. A private interpretation fails to consider all that the Lord has revealed in Bible prophecy. A private interpretation--No matter how hoary with age it is- will not be of any value when prophecy is fulfilled.

As to the close of probation, We are at the close (sealing time), but it has not closed. It is time to make our election sure and to warn a dying world before President Obama enacts restrictions that will hinder our freedom to get the message to the world. To fail to understand the 3rd angel's message and to proclaim it forcefully -- now -- is not wise.

Whether Obama is still president at the end of this year or not is NOT the issue. If people believe you, than when a new president takes office in a couple months everyone sighs a big sigh of relief and prophecy receives another black mark because of all the false "wolf" calls.

But the word of prophecy is SURE -- and it does not rest on Obama, it will come to pass no matter who is president.
Yes, we are in the sealing time.
Yes, our freedoms could disappear suddenly, in the very near future.
Yes, religious laws could be passed in the very near future.
Yes, earth's probation could close in the very near future.
(It could even close today for some if one's life were to suddenly cease)


We are to proclaim the 3rd angel's message NOW --
How can you even suggest that is not wise?

The 3 angels' messages of Revelation 14 as I understand them apply to our day and they have been repeated in Revelation 18.



This is the 2nd angel's message that was confirmed by the fall of Pope Benedict in conjunction with the priests' fornication scandal. Between 9/30/2012 to 9/30/2012, I preached that he would not be pope after the spring of 2013. He left office in February 2013 within the timeframe that I understood according to the prophecy.

And there cannot be a 2nd angel's message without the first.



This is the First angel's announcement that the Hour (83-years 4-months from 14 October 1929 to 14 February 2013) allotted to Judge the Living has ended. It comes as a caveat to explain what preceded the 2nd angel's message. The sins reach Heaven in the Judgment Hour.

the third angel's message:



President Obama is the man that will enforce the Mark of the Beast and compel the world to take it. The number of his name is made up to 666 and that he is identified in Daniel 2 & 7, and Revelation 5, 13, & 17.

Your posts have not confirmed my studies of the 3 angels' messages or encouraged me in any way. My understanding of the 3 angels' messages is not shared by you.

So why would a faithful watchman or watchwoman not want to sound the right message at the right time to warn God's people of the pending danger? What blessing is there to wait until that which is prophesied comes to pass before saying anything?



Is it because you have not been involved in the active proclamation of the 3 angels' messages as they have been repeated in Revelation 18, that you are too willing to explain away what I have been blessed to learn over 20-years of prayerful Bible study?

It is easy for some folks to cherry pick at parts of the message when 90% of what I presented has still not been studied in its entirety.

The evidence is what it is. But it is not too late to study the 3 angels' messages and to learn that which God has been pleased to reveal in His word. We are in the sealing portion of the Investigative Judgment and the Day of Atonement is nearing its close. Do not delay in praying that God would remove every barrier that could cast a shadow over His word. If we seek Him with all of our hearts, we will find Him and He will lead us into all truth. But if we presume that we have all the truth that we need, we will truly be Laodiceans who think that we have need of nothing. (they are rich in their own eyes and their fate is that of the "rich men")

If the endtime meaning of the 3 angels' messages are not understood and the Present Truth for our day is discarded, IT IS NOT WISE to rest upon light from past ages as though it is all sufficient.

Is that valid logic?
You suggest that "Google" is THE search engine to determine truth.
What if some other search engine shows some other denomination's site first?

You suggest that a "Google" search's first three pages are from one denomination so it must not be true.

You suggest an idea must be wrong because only one denomination believes it.

Not sure that is valid logic.

The close of probation prior to the second coming is Biblical -- it's part of the last message (three angel's messages) given in Revelation.


When Christ shall cease His work as mediator in man's behalf, then this time of trouble begins and the seven last plagues fall.

In Rev. 7 Four angels hold back the winds of strife-- the sealing work must first be finished before they are let loose.

Rev. 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

What is this seal?
It is a character that shows to whom our loyalty and allegiance is given, and whose kingdom we belong to.

Rev. 14:1... having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Rev. 3:5 and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

The mark of the beast
It also shows to whom allegiance and worship is being given and to whose kingdom one belongs.
What is said of those who worship the beast and his image and receive his mark?

Revelation 14:9,10.
"And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand. The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation."

This wrath is explained as what?
Rev. 15:1 "And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God."

The "wrath" is the plagues.

Now let's just look at these verses:

There is a sealing work BEFORE the trouble erupts.
Probation is still open during this time -- a last urgent message to fully come to Christ.

When the plagues (the wrath) falls, it is WITHOUT MERCY.
No more mercy. What does that mean -- no more probation.

God's people will be protected from the plagues.

Ps. 91:9 Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
91:10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.


During this time Christ is no longer ministering in the heavenly sanctuary as High Priest.

Will there be any service for the forgiveness of sins in the heavenly temple while these plagues are being poured out?

"And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled." Revelation 15:8.

It will be too late to change, at that time --

Rev. 22:11-12 "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."

The close of probation is not the focus of the last message. It is a waste of time to worry about the close of probation. Be one in Christ and warn the world with the 3 angels' message as they have been fulfilled in Revelation 18:

1) M2 Babylon is fallen - Pope Benedict resigned because of his priests' fornication
2) M1 The time allotted for the Judgment Hour of the living has ended- sins have reached Heaven
3) M3 President Obama is soon to implement - enforce the Mark of the Beast

Worrying about the close of probation is just running down the clock and wasting time that could be better spent doing the things that need to be done.

Why Nadi?

The Bible first mentions Judgment is set, then after that Jesus comes the second time! What is wrong with that passage?

Although the argument line contains insufficient data to respond to, I will attempt to answer the question.

There is nothing "wrong" with the passage. However, as I see it, the more Biblical support for a doctrine the stronger it is. Therefore, if the idea of a close of probation is based on a single text, and not a very strong one at that, I will not be a strong supporter of that idea, especially in light of the many texts illustrating God's unfailing love, mercy that endures forever, etc.

Then to take a weak idea of a close in probation and start assigning dates to it is just bad religion.

I posted this on the "What do we take to Heaven" thread, and it may help in understanding my view on probation:

I fully agree that we should not start assigning dates to the close of probation --
That's why I can't accept "His Child's" Obama interpretations.

However, there is more than one text that gives the foundational understanding that probation does close BEFORE the second coming. The plagues fall after the close of probation.

You say "God's mercy endures forever" ...
Yes, for the ones who have committed their lives to Him His mercy will never depart.
Those who trust in His name will never be left alone.


And yes, it is the desire of our loving God that all would hear His voice and turn to Him. One of the reasons probationary time lingers is because so many are still in the valley of decision.

But to believe His mercy will be forever extended to those who reject that mercy and defy His love and law, would be universalism - an everyone saved belief which is contrary to scripture.

Nor do I believe that Christ will overpower the decision of the rejecters of His mercy with His glory at the second coming thus forcing them into submission. When Christ comes the reward of eternal life or eternal death is already decided based on everyone's response during their life time to His call of mercy.

That time of mercy ends before the second coming.
scriptures also says when those plagues fall there is NO MERCY. The plagues fall unmixed with mercy. They are unmixed, undiluted "wrath".

Revelation 14:9,10.
"And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand. The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation."

This wrath is explained as what?
Rev. 15:1 "And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God."


All the judgments prior to the close of probation, have been mingled with mercy. Great is God's mercy! The pleading blood of Christ has shielded sinners from receiving the full measure of their guilt and keeps calling them to turn from their sins accept Christ and His righteousness; but in the final showdown, wrath is poured out unmixed with mercy.

When those fearful plagues will begin to fall, after the last message of Rev. 18:1-4 is given, what a terrible time for those who have despised God's word and rejected His call of mercy.

Prov. 1:27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
1:28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me, but they shall not find me:
1:29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:
1:30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.

It will be too late to change, at that time --

Rev. 22:11-12 "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."

Today we need to seek the Lord our God -- Today His mercy is poured out upon the world in loving urgency to come to Him today.

I agree.

If we look carefully at the context of the main text (Rev. 22:11-12), the angel talking to John is not even referring to the time at the fall of Babylon or "after probation" or... -- Rev 22:11-12 refers to John's time (from after Pentecost (33 AD) to the 2nd coming}. The whole revelation was completed at Rev 22:5. From v.6 to 10, the angel tells Johns that the words given in the book of revelation is sure and true. Then John does the mistake of worshiping the angel by which he tells John not to and tells John not to seal the revelation.

So a close of the book of revelation is done and we are back to John's current time frame. My understanding of verse 11-12 is to let us know what to expect from John's time on -- that things will continue as it were..."He that is unjust, let him be unjust still...". Because from the time of the fulfillment of Pentecost to Jesus 2nd coming is a "Pentecost ERA" where SOME(few) people will be refined by the "fire" of the Holy Spirit however MOST will back away from this "fire" (voice of the Holy Spirit) like it was establish with the 1st Pentecost time (the TYPE) in Ex 20:19 "And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.") when the people only could bear hearing the 10Cs, the introduction of the covenant. They refused to hear anything further for they were afraid to die. Hearing the Holy Spirit does [spiritually] kill us [the "old man"] by "burning the flesh"[man's words & false notions of the Lord]. As we know, hearing the Lord via His Holy Spirit does not physically kill the person or burn his physical flesh.

So we have taken Rev 22:11-12 out of context including time context, and we have added the probation spin to it that the text doesn't say or imply.

The same comments to all of dedication other supposively supporting texts. None holds water.

This is call taking scriptures to fit our "pre-conceived idea" by which Ezekiel 14 calls "heart idols" by which the Lord warns us that if we hold on to them then the Lord will MULTIPLY or amplify them(Ezk 14:4). Notice Ez 14:4 doesn't say that the Lord will correct them. No, but HE will MULTIPLY them.

The Lord is not asking us to destroy these idols. Pre-conceived ideas are only destroyed as we come to learn the truth. And how to learn the truth?....1Jn 2:27 from hearing & being taught by the Holy Spirit personally.

So, what we need to learn to do is to put aside these pre-conceived notions -- meaning don't treat these as TRUTH while knowing that these needs to be tested and refined by the Holy Spirit.

However, if we come to the Lord treating these untested pre conceived idea as TRUTH which in actuality are only man's flesh (words, thoughts, & interpretations).....then in your action you are saying that you prefer eating man's flesh(words) than Jesus' flesh(words). In respond to this, the Lord will send you more of your favorite food(man's flesh) until you get sick of it. This respond from the Lord is not to forsake you, but rather it is His way of correcting our perverted appetite. By getting continually sick, we will come to desire better food.

The Lord knows how to change all of our fleshy appetite in His good timing.

There are those who believe in the rapture. If probation closes before Christ Comes there is no possibility for those who are not raptured to ever be in Heaven.

The fleshly ideas is that there will be a second chance for those who are not ready when Jesus comes.

Dedication does some wonderful studies (though she does not have everything in the proper context). The Holy Spirit blesses God's people with discernment. The devil is the accuser of the brethren (and sisters) and he is working to to keep us satisfied in our partial understanding until it is too late to get ready for Jesus to come.

The parable of the Ten Virgins is Christ's most authoritative statement that say that when the Bridegroom comes, probation has ended. And those who did not have the Holy Spirit's oil of grace and discernment will go into everlasting darkness--they do not go into Heaven's feast.

Time better spent would be to be sure we are ready for Jesus to come and getting the right message of warning to the world before it is upon us.

back peddle 3. (intransitive, idiomatic) To distance oneself from an earlier claim or statement; back off from an idea.

Though initially adopting a hard-line stance, the politician soon started to backpedal.

APL is not making a claim or statement about Obama remaining in office. He would not be backpedaling. He may accept "new light". You are the one going out on a limb. Time will see if you start backpedaling and changing your stance.



And no one has proved it to be in error from the Bible that martians will invade the earth. So the Bible wins.

Not sure lack of evidence is support for something.
No where does the Bible speak about Obama.


Again,
So you're saying Pius VI was the 5th head who received the deadly wound. Pius XII would be the 7th head. Why are you persisting otherwise?

5, 6, 7.

Count them.

If APL or anyone waits until it happens it might be too late as it was in the day of Noah



The deadly wound was inflicted on the Pius head when PIUS VI lost his power over all the churches and over the global secular government. The papacy was dead.

When the deadly wound was healed the PIUS head was healed by Mussolini restoring secular authority to PIUS XI.

The seven post 1929 popes that ruled as kings after the wound was healed in 1929 were:

Pius XI & XII
John XXIII
Paul VI
John-Paul I & II
Benedict XVI

Benedict XVI reigned for a short space. The prophecy in Revelation 13 transitioned from the papal beast to the earth beast (America) during Benedict XVI reign. Bush II was President at the beginning of Benedict XVI reign and Obama was president at the end of it.

The American earth beast only has 2 horns. Obama is the last President identified in this prophecy. He will be in office when Christ comes.

“The United States is the power represented by the beast with lamblike horns…”(GC 578.3)

To identify Obama in the prophecy, it requires following the symbolism.

But, how can Pope Francis I be the last Pope when he nothing like the seven? 1) He is a Jesuit. 2) Francis I reigns with Pope Benedict still alive and present.

On both of these points Francis I fails the prophetic earmarks!

Herein lies the fault-- WE do not get ready for Jesus to come. JESUS gets US ready.

Phil. 1:6 "being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." (NIV)

Phil. 2:13 "for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose."(NIV)

This is the beauty of the gospel. I can NEVER get myself ready, but Jesus has ALREADY made me ready.

But, we have to let Jesus, through the Holy Spirit, do that work of preparation in us.

Alchemy are you saying that Jesus needs your permission to send the Holy Spirit to you? I don't see that in the Bible. When the Holy Spirit comes either in great manifestation like Paul's fallen off his horse experience or in lesser manifestation like speaking a little word of truth in your mind -- He doesn't need your permission.

I see written all over the Bible that God is Sovereign over all that He created including Man.

The Holy Spirit will try to save all mankind. But, if we refuse Him, the Holy Spirit will stop trying to save us. When the Holy Spirit stops moving on the heart of an individual, probation has closed on that person.

Once the whole world has rejected the Holy Spirit, or Christ, probation has closed on the entire planet.

God in His mercy has allowed us to know what issues will finally bring that test to the rest of the earth. What a solemn and tumultuous time that will be.

Alchemy you didn't answer my question based on your statement that God needs your permission to sent His Holy Spirit or do His work.

You don't need to answer it but I think you need to rethink about what your position really endorse -- it endorses the Sovereignty of Man over the Lord.

Thanks for asking.
Pope Francis is not in Revelation 13. It goes from Pius XI to Benedict XVI. Pope Francis is a dual pope. Not a solo pope like his 7 predecessors.

I have posted my understanding of the 1260

There were 1260 years from Moses to Christ's crucifixion.

There were 1260 years from when the papacy arose in 538 to its fall in 1798

and the 1260 days are 42 months

John-Paul II died on 2 April 2005 which was 42 months after 9/11/01

The Judgment hour of the dead as I understand it was 10/22/1844 to 2/22/1928

The Judgment hour of the Living was as I understand it was 10/14/1929 to 2/14/2013

Thus we are living in the final sealing time that will soon end

The Judgment hour of the Living correlated with the reigns of the 7 heads on the healed papal beast

One of the papal beast's heads was wounded to death when:

Pope Pius VI lost his secular government and position as head of all the churches in February 1798

The Pius head was healed when Pius XI had his secular kingdom restored February 1929

There were 7 popes from Pius XI until Benedict XVI (he ruled a short space)

I understood his short space to end before the Spring of 2013

Thus from 9/30/2011 to 9/30/2012 I tweeted 8 times that he would not be pope after the spring of 2013. He resigned effective 28 February 2013 which was 1 month and 1 day short of 7 years according to the Babylonian traditional method of measuring a king's reign

Then Rev 18 declares Babylon is fallen (2nd angel's message) because of her fornication. It was the priests fornication that caused Benedict's resignation. He had ushered in the year of the priest and a year to evangelize the world, because decent people were leaving his church because of the priests' fornication scandal (the Euphrates was and is drying up to make way for the kings of the east)

Then the kings of the earth (Obama and America's Supreme Court) committed fornication with Rome by making homosexual marriage the law of the land. Thus their Judgment has reached Heaven (the 1st angel's message).

And the merchants of the earth are distressed because of the financial calamity that has begun (the time of trouble like we have never had since there was a nation) which will culminate with President Obama turning against America's Constitution, then God's Covenant, and implementing the Mark of the Beast which is to wage war against God's people.

And instead of waking up to their danger, and studying the facts; they want to wait and see like the folks in Noah's Day that waited for it to start raining.

Many have turned against the straight message. They fault the messenger. They read Scripture in the light of their own understanding. And they mock the possibility that this could be God's final warning to them in the sealing time as if they will have time to change their doubting character when they see it for themselves.'

But the parable of the 10 virgins illustrates that there comes a time when the cry that the bridegroom is coming is given that it is too late for the foolish virgins to change their ways and get oil in their lamps. If the foolish virgins don't get their oil by faith when the Lord offers it to them, they won't get it in time. When the foolish virgins saw that it was true and returned believing that the message of the bridegroom was true, they were too late.

God allows the wheat and the tears to grow together. But He will shake the church and separate them in His own time and in His own way

semantics will only run the clock down

The Bereans were more noble in that they studied the Scriptures to see if the things that Paul preached were true or not

No, it doesn't Elle. That is because God is judge over all in the end. Maybe you need to rethink your position.

And this post clearly demonstrates the manifest human nature of this particular interpretation! Pope Francis I is the eighth pope since the Lateran Pact of 1929. Yet, you say he doesn't count! How convinient.

Agreed. Remember Deut. 13:1-5.

Revelation 13 only deals with the 7 popes from 1929 when the deadly wound was healed--it goes to Benedict (who was the last solo pope) and then the prophecy shifts to the American beast. That is the way that God had John to write it.

When Revelation 17 cites the 5 kings that were fallen, 5 popes were fallen (dead)

The one king that "was" was the living Pope John-Paul II. And Benedict was the 7th that ruled for a short space.

Francis is the 8th BUT he is not of the 7 (that is a criteria established in the text). The one that is of the 7 is John-Paul II. Thus Satan will impersonate Pope John-Paul II.

If the Bible is allowed to explain itself, it does a fin job, but if human reasoning is inserted into the prophecy it won't make sense.

Now that that is understood Revelation 13 is understood, it has a secondary meaning. The popes names after the deadly wound is healed are: Pius, John, Paul, John-Paul, Benedict, Francis, and Satan.

Revelation 16 tells us that Satan is the dragon, Francis is the beast, and Benedict Emeritus is the false prophet. As ancient Babylon had three kings the night it fell, papal-Babylon now has 2 kings with Satan to appear as (Pope John-Paul II) the 3rd king/pope immediately before Christ comes.

The good news is that Jesus is even at the door. The bad news is that 5 of the 10 virgins will wait until they know for sure rather than go forward by faith. Those that wait until prophecy has been fulfilled to their satisfaction are in danger of waiting too long. They are in danger of running the clock down until it is too late to obtain the Holy Spirit and be sealed worthy and fit for heaven

America is going to war with Iran and President Obama is going to seize a third term. It will happen before 1/20/17 and there is no blessing promised to them that do not study it now, but wait to see if it is so. Judgment begins at the house of God and those who run the clock down will place themselves in danger unnecessarily.

To wake up a day too late is worse than sleeping until Christ Comes.

Unfortunately, your eschatology is far too complex and contrived for me to give serious thought to. There are too many leaps of logic and assumptions. For example:

In reality we do not know the date of "Moses" or of Christ's crucifixion. To assign dates without evidence only serves to "support" individual pet theories.

I suppose that in other posts, or your website, or a book you wrote you have tried to show the continuity of your thought, and I would hope you offered some form of academic, scholarly evidence on which to base your claims. But the posts here on MSDAOL show none of that, so I must disregard this end-time theory.

His child wrote;

"Revelation 13 only deals with the 7 popes from 1929 when the deadly wound was healed--it goes to Benedict (who was the last solo pope) and then the prophecy shifts to the American beast. That is the way that God had John to write it."

Revelation 13 only mentions the seven heads, that is true. But, in Revelation 17 this prophecy is expanded to include an eighth kingdom, who is supposed to come from the original seven heads or kingdoms. I know you say popes instead of kingdoms, but, I will refrain from saying popes as I don't agree with the popes point.

Francis I can not be the eighth for the reasons I have already mentioned.

What??? We are NOT talking about God's judgment in the end -- We are talking about every day affairs with the Holy Spirit moving on the hearts of men.

You implied above that God needs people's permission to do His work via the Holy Spirit. I said that's not found in the Bible -- God is sovereign over man(doesn't need man's permission) and not vice versa.

Then you rephrased yourself saying "if we refuse...He will stop....When the Holy Spirit stops moving on the heart...probation has closed on that person".

OK, I didn't notice before that you did correct your first statement with this one saying the Lord can act on man's heart without his permission, [but you are assuming here that the Lord QUITS TRYING after some time because man refused Him.

THUS wouldn't you say that this would result in a faillure? That the Lord has failed to fulfill His NEW covenant Vow for He failed to write His laws in that individual heart?

Aren't we contradicting ourselves as we SDAs also believe that all of the Lord's words will be fulfilled?

Blessings Elle,

I directly answered your question. You obviously are not understanding me. Just leave it at that.

And if anyone waits to drink the cool-aid to get on the space ship behind the comet....


Are you saying Pius VI was the 5th head or not?
Where in the Bible does it say to restart the count of heads after the healing of the wound to the head?



Did the 5th head suffer the deadly wound? If not, which number?

And that is why I am not inclined to purchase or spend time reading his books. One would assume that for the most part his daily thought process would be reflected in his book. Hence your comment supports my inclination.

One glaring issue is where is the Biblical support to start any count at 1929. I am still waiting for his answer.

Revelation 13:3 "And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast."

The head was wounded in 1798. So this text cannot be referring to the wounded head but to the papacy after "his deadly wound was healed"

So much evidence has been presented so many times. It has been explained away. Is it evidence that you really want?

What I really look for is legitimate Biblical scholarship using accepted methods of biblical interpretation. This is so rare to find.
Each statement or conclusion must be supported by a legitimate reading of the text. You do not do this. Neither does Elle. Dedication tries, but is (unfortunately) heavily influenced by Ellen White.
We must return to the actual text of scripture, and must not impose our bias onto the text. This is so difficult to do, mainly because we do not realize that we are doing it.
WE MUST CHALLENGE EVERY STATEMENT WE MAKE, AND INSURE THAT IT IS SUPPORTED BY A LEGETIMATE READING OF SCRIPTURE.

It sounds good to read what you wrote.

But Obviously your words don't mean what they appear to say. Since White's writings were SUPPORTED BY A LEGITIMATE READING OF SCRIPTURE and you fault Dedication because she "heavily influenced by Ellen White." It appears that you are looking to prove your own agenda in spite of what you wrote.

From reading EGW, I would conclude that Dedication is misreading EGW and doing harm to the flock by placing a traditional spin on White's words that is not appropriate. But since Dedication is in harmony with so many if not most of the other SDA's in misreading EGW, it is not an easy task to correct their errors.

And since my reading of the Scriptures in conjunction with EGW has correctly predicted (from 9/30/11-9/30/12 ... before it happened) that pope Benedict would not be pope after the Spring of 2013 and it came to pass, my correct reading of the Scriptures and of EGW is verified by the event prophesied. But Dedication and most SDA's conclude that even a false prophet can be right sometimes. So when I follow the prophecy to the next stage and allow it to identify the very President that will be in charge of the image beast when it moves against God's Covenant and God's people, they prefer the wait and see approach rather than to study the Scriptures that predict the event. That is how it was in Noah's day and how it will be at Christ's Coming.

And Nadi, from what I have read of your positions, of reading the Scriptures apart from EGW is not any better.

The wheat and the tares will grow together until the harvest, and when Jesus asks "How readest thou," some will go into their joy in the LORD and others will cry Lord, Lord as Christ turns from them.

We do well to be awake now and tomorrow will take care of itself.

And regarding my books. Some folks have missed some of my comments and others have pressed me to spend time reposting things over and over again. It is time consuming and not very productive to try to feed the starving saints a diet that they despise. Time better spent is to put everything in its proper place and setting and all together so that starving souls can have the information at the right time. NO sense to write a book that explains why President Obama is going to be the last American President and not have it in print before he usurps his third term.

You are saying that head cannot be referring to head?

You defined head as pope, right?

So you are saying the wounded head cannot be referring to a pope, right?

But my question was, Where in the Bible does it say to restart the count of heads after the healing of the wound to the head?

Can you answer that?

One glaring issue is where is the Biblical support to start any count at 1929. I am still waiting for an answer.


Re 13:1 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name.

Re 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast.



Re 17:7 But the angel said to me, "Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.

Re 17:9 "Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.
Re 17:10 "There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time.
Re 17:11 "And the beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.


I see nothing in here that says you are to start numbering one set of heads at the healing of the wound of the other set of heads.

Can you show us?

I do not understand What you are asking?



no. The Spirit of prophecy and the Bible say it. I just believe a thus saith the LORD.



The pope specified received the deadly wound. Was a pope specified?
Read the prophecy.



The prophecy specifies that a head was wounded and the Spirit of Prophecy states that it was pope (Pius VI) who was the one specified in the prophecy that received the wound.



NO



the head/Pope Pius VI was wounded to death. BUT the prophecy did not stop there it moved onto the phase of the beast when "his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast"

After the wound was healed in 1929, the world wondered after the popes. The world did not wonder after the popes while the papacy was dead. The world did not wonder after the popes between 1798 - 1928; the world wondered after the healed heads especially John XXIII, Paul VI, John-Paul I & II.



If you do not see it, go to the Holy Spirit and ask for discernment.

I saw it after Bible study and much prayer and was able to predict that Benedict would not be pope after the Spring of 2013 and I said that 8 times between 9/30/2011- 9/30/2012 long before it happened FROM Bible study and prayer.

Likewise, I did not understand what you were saying.

Maybe you could show us from scripture where the Bible says a head is a pope?


So if a pope is a head, and a pope received the deadly wound, that would be pope and head number 5.
Why don't you believe prophecy?

So believe your own writings.
Pius VI is number 5.
Pius XI would be number 6.
Pius XII would be number 7.

How do you determine that Pope Pius Vi was number 5?