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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #181275
08/12/16 02:36 AM
08/12/16 02:36 AM
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Karen Y  Online Content OP
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Individual destroyer is call "Abaddon". The beast that arose from the bottomless pit is Abaddon. There are few others who join the force of destruction which the Book of Revelation mentioned: the dragon and the false prophets.

The threefold union of spirit of devils— the dragon, the beast, and the false prophets—works miracles to deceive the whole world to destroy, thus each of the destroyers join hands together through ecumenical movement: this battle is called Armageddon.

The battle of the Armageddon is not something in the future. It is already here! The ecumenical movement is ever so visible now, which means you and I are so much involved in this battle. Consider, what Jesus have said in the midst of this sixth plague: "Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame" (Rev. 16:15).

The sixth trumpet announces its "woe" saying, "loose the four angels". The four angels are holding the winds of the earth now (Rev. 7:1-3) but when it gets to let go, the threefold destroyers will be punished by "the fire, smoke, and brimstone" (Rev. 9:17).

This is another clue that the seven trumpets link to the seven plagues. The threefold union will be punished with three weapons of plague:

The dragon is punished by fire.
The beast is punished by smoke.
The false prophets are punished by brimstone.

In the sixth trumpet, it says, "And the rest of the men which were not killed by these PLAGUES yet repented not of the works of their hands" (Rev. 9:20). Emphasis added.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #181296
08/15/16 03:26 AM
08/15/16 03:26 AM
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Karen Y  Online Content OP
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In Rev. 8:13, the second woe is mentioned as an announcement because terrible woe is to come upon the "inhabiters of the earth".

The second woe is one and the same thing as the sixth trumpet. This is very solemn warning for the end-time generation. All the entire world population is involved in this destruction by "these plagues" (Rev. 9:20) of "the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone" (Rev. 9:18). And "the third part of men" will be "killed" (Rev. 9:18) by these plagues.

The point of time of the destruction is mentioned in Rev. 9:14, 15. It will happen when "the four angels" loose their hold, which is a definite point in time: "which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men" (Rev. 9:15).

The four angels were at the borderline of "the great river Euphrates" (Rev. 9:14), which indicates a final demarcation line. In Gen. 15:18, God promised Abram the land from "the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates." The last river that is mentioned in the garden of Eden was "the fourth river is Euphrates" (Gen. 2:14).

The sixth plague poured "upon the great river Euphrates" (Rev. 16:12). The sixth trumpet and the sixth plague parallel by the Euphrates river which indicate it has correlation each other and links in the symbolism. "The way of the kings of the east might be prepared" (Rev. 16:12) implies a duration of the plague falling which also parallels with "the four angels" prepared to loose their hold.

The three plagues of the fire, smoke and brimstone are aiming at the three evil spirits of devil, which they are mentioned in the sixth plague. They symbolize paganism, Papacy, and apostate protestants in their ecumenical union of religion. Their very work of unity ushers in the sixth plague. This is their suicidal act. They are bundling themselves to be thrown into the consuming fire of God at the end.

It is the sixth plague that the ecumenical movement is going strong. They are preparing for the "way of the kings of the east" to come: Jesus' Second Coming! At His Coming, the fire will destroy the pagan religion, the smoke will destroy the Papacy, and the brimstone will destroy the apostate protestant (false prophets).

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #181317
08/22/16 02:59 AM
08/22/16 02:59 AM
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Karen Y  Online Content OP
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The first woe is the fifth trumpet, which indicates the beast power as the destroyer: Abbadon or Apollyon.

The second woe is the sixth trumpet, which announces the ecumenical movement, that is self-destructive activities by the wicked.

The first and the second woes are instigated by the beast power which was given to him by the dragon (See Rev. 13:2, 4).

After the first woe announced, the two more woes are to come. The events are not necessarily sequential, even though it records its sound consecutively. How else can it be known to us, unless one by one? Thus it says, "there come two woes more hereafter" (Rev. 9:12). Likewise the seven churches and the seven seals indicate the starting point as same by, "I will show thee things which must be hereafter" (Rev. 4:1). Notice the "hereafter".

The announcement of the three woes reveals the events at the close of probation.

The third woe announces that the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord (Rev. 11: 15). This is still the future event just as the other woes.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #181348
08/30/16 02:45 AM
08/30/16 02:45 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
Isa. 34:16 "Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them."

In the Book of Revelation, there are counterparts to subjects, segments or phrases, and words which provide more clear understanding when we match them together.

The second woe (sixth trumpet) indicates that the four angels are loosen at the river of the Euphrates.
The sixth plague indicates that the way of the kings of the east prepared when the plague poured upon the river of the Euphrates.

These events portray the same scene of the close of probation, which culminates in Second Coming of Jesus. The river of the Euphrates denotes the edge of the borderline.

At the point of release of the four angels, the slaughter army of the horsemen will kill men on earth with the fire, smoke, and brimstone. Notice that the horsemen are the same horsemen who follow the white horse man—the Faithful and True—, Jesus. (See Rev. 19:11-15).

The fire, smoke, and brimstone are called "plagues". So we should look for the counterparts within the seven last plagues, especially at the sixth plague.

There are three unclean spirits, spirits of devils, who gather the whole world to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. These are preparing themselves to receive the "plagues" of the fire, smoke, and brimstone.

These three unclean spirits come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. The army of the horsemen is the counterpart who plagues these three unclean spirits. Notice that out of the mouth of the horsemen, the fire, smoke and brimstone come out to plague them.

Who has the power over fire, smoke, and brimstone to "smite the earth with all plagues"? Who gave the vials of the plague? God said that if anyone worship the beast and receive the mark of the beast, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels.(See Rev. 14:9-10). The 200 million horsemen of the holy angels are obeying the command of God to plague the wicked and to slain the third part of men at the close of probation.

The dragon which represent paganism will be plagued with the fire.
The beast which represent the Papacy will be plagued with the smoke.
The false prophet which represent the apostate protestants will be plagued with the brimstone.

Therefore the second woe—sixth trumpet— is announcement for the close of probation that the four angels would be loosing their hold very very soon. Then the harm or hurt will be happening: "Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in there foreheads" (Rev. 7:3).

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #181360
09/02/16 11:33 PM
09/02/16 11:33 PM
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Charity  Offline
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Karen, I may have asked you this before. You think all seven trumpets apply to the future, is that right? Do you think they will begin on the Feast of Trumpets?

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #181362
09/06/16 01:03 AM
09/06/16 01:03 AM
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Karen Y  Online Content OP
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Joined: Feb 2014
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Michigan, US
Hi Mark,

I think you have mentioned something about that before. I probably did not answered because I don’t know about that. The message of the Seven Trumpets would be more important to understand than when it might be happening: it is about the imminent close of probation!

I do agree with you that all the Seven Trumpets are applicable to the future because its messages are clearly announcement for the future events. For example, the fourth trumpet indicated that the sun, moon, and stars will be darkened one-third part of day. I know this has not happened yet. When God created the heavenly bodies, they were made to show signs of times and seasons according to Gen. 1:14. Therefore, the sun, moon, and stars darkened means, symbolically, to indicate that the heavenly bodies will show signs of the time.

Each of the four gospel writers—Matt., Mark, Luke and John—wrote about the climax or final signs of the time for the Second Coming of Jesus. Apostle John wrote in Rev. 6:12-14. Thus the fourth trumpet sound is for the announcement that Jesus is coming back soon which means the probation is coming to close in no time.

When would the fourth plague fall then? before the Second Coming? I would think so. The sun will “become black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth” (Rev. 6:12-13) at the Coming of Jesus. But the fourth plague, the sun is scorching heat, must exist before the close of probation. Do we have climate change issue now? global warming? iceberg melting? We must realize that the time is very short before the close of probation: before the signs of the heavenly bodies will manifest in its fulness.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #181403
09/11/16 02:20 AM
09/11/16 02:20 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
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Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
To find the climax in a story we have to look in the middle especially in Hebrew logic. The seven trumpets have its decisive point at the middle by saying, "an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe" (Rev. 8:13). The next three trumpet sound has added intensity of announcement not to mention the prior trumpets also have the announcement of the message of devastation upon the earth, sea and earth dwellers.

The first trumpet announced "the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up" (Rev. 8:7). The trees and green grass depict mankind. Thus the devastation of human life is announced to "the inhabiters of the earth" (Rev. 8:13). The population of the earth is 7 billions now. The one third part is 2 billions. The world has not known this massive death yet, which means the first trumpet is still the future.

The second trumpet announced "the third part of the sea became blood" (Rev. 8:8). Deadly effect is described as "became blood". The sea pollution is immense trouble these days but the third part of the sea has not reached the point of toxic level yet. So I see the second trumpet is still in the future at the close of probation.

The third trumpet announced "the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters ... became wormwood" and "many men died of the waters" (Rev. 8:10-11). The drinking water pollution is announced which will destroy "many men". I don't know how many is many but it is "many" of "the inhabiters of the earth". Despite the fact that the water pollution causes many people sick to death these days, "many men died of the waters" has not arrived yet partly because of filtering water system exist. Thus the third trumpet is also announcement for the future at the close of probation.

The fourth trumpet is announcement of the signs of time by the heavenly bodies at the Second Coming of Jesus such as described by Apostles—Matt., Mark, Luke, and John.

The fifth trumpet is the first woe which announced severe torments such as men seek death but shall not find it; "shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them" (Rev. 9:6). I can not imagine what kind of torment might be so severe like this. Spiritual torment is worst than any physical torment. Rev. 9:4 indicated that there is command that the locust cannot harm those who have the seal of God in their foreheads. If the locust is able to distinguish who are the sealed and not allow to torment them, this torment must be talking about spiritual torment, which comes at the completion of the seal of God's people. At the fifth trumpet there is no death mentioned but severe torment. This devastation of spiritual torment is indeed "woe" to the "inhabiters of the earth" which will happen at close of probation.

The sixth trumpet announced the close of probation by loosing the four angels who were holding the four winds of the earth until the sealing of God completes. Of course this has not happened yet. Therefore the sixth trumpet is announcement of close of probation which is still the future.

The seventh trumpet is the third woe which applies to the wicked because when the announcement comes to reality, "the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ"(Rev. 11:15) and the wicked "shall wail because of him" (Rev. 1:7). This event will occur at the second coming of Jesus. So the seventh trumpet is clearly announcement for the future.

All the seven trumpets have embedded message of the imminence of the close of probation. The emphasis is given at the middle of the seven trumpets by the flying angel in heaven with a loud voice. Also at the suspense after the sixth trumpet, the measuring of the temple is indicated which tells us to pay attention to the sanctuary message that Jesus is about to pronounce "it is done" at the close of probation and finishes His mediatorial work in heaven. Not only that, the snapshot of the High Priest work at the anti-typical Day of Atonement is described at the introduction of the seven trumpets. (See Rev. 8:2-5).

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #181427
09/14/16 03:16 AM
09/14/16 03:16 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
The seven trumpets have its decisive point at the middle by saying, "an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe" (Rev. 8:13). The next three trumpet sound has added intensity of announcement but all the Seven Trumpets are connected and bound together just as the same as the three angels messages.

Probationary time is going to close very soon and Jesus will cast ashes of the golden censer when He comes out from the most holy place. The image is portrayed in the introduction of the Seven Trumpets that our High Priest, Jesus Christ, ministering last phase of His intercession with "much incense"—which indicate the Day of Atonement ministry.

In another aspect, the snapshot of the introduction assures us that Jesus ministers for us while the Seven Trumpet messages announced by the people of God. That is how the introduction functions as though details that follow adhere to it.

The interlude is inserted between the sixth and the seventh trumpet. The purpose is not to indicate the timeline of the event but to explain a suspense which has built up to the sixth. At this point, an explanation was necessary before the seventh. Each trumpet speaks about the imminent close of probation and additionally intensity also has built up by the threefold woe. The next event is Second Coming of Jesus. But the interlude emphasizes something crucial point.

The image of the mighty Angel portrays proclamation of the worldwide message as the seven thundering sound—Jesus is coming! It also emphasizes that we must pay attention to the sanctuary at the hour of the suspense and we are to follow Jesus in the heavenly sanctuary by faith; Jesus is in the last phase of the High Priest ministry. He is about to declare "It is done" to close the probationary time. We must prepare for the Day of the Lord approaching by making certain sound of trumpet.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #181442
09/18/16 03:38 AM
09/18/16 03:38 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
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Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
The sixth trumpet depicts the close of probation by the command that came out from the temple, which is the voice of God, saying, "loose the four angels". The four angels were holding the winds of the earth until the sealing of God is done that will usher into the close of probation.

The 200 million horsemen will be release to slay one third of mankind by pouring out the seven last plagues at the close of probation. The "rest of the men which were not killed by THESE PLAGUES yet repented not" (Rev. 9:20). (Emphasis added). So the sixth trumpet doubtlessly is announcing of the coming plagues. The shadow of the plagues are already upon earth and it will only get worse until the full strength of the final seven last plagues. Now is the time to repent. The final plagues fall because there is no more repentant sinners.

The Seven last plagues fall before the Second Coming of Jesus. The Seven Trumpets announcement blast before the close of probation. The close of the probation ushers in the Second Coming of Jesus.

Each trumpet speaks about the close of probation and suspense has built up regards to the final climax. Therefore the interlude comes in after the sixth trumpet message is made known. In the interlude, it says, "prophesy again" to the world-wide before many peoples, and nations, and tongues and kings that the close of probation is so near.

Joel 2:1 "Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;"

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #181466
09/25/16 03:04 AM
09/25/16 03:04 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
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Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
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Rev. 9:1 says, "to him was given the key of the bottomless pit", which denotes that he has powers to control the earth. In Rev. 13, we can identify that the beast powers exercise such: "cause all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads" and "no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name". And we are told that "the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority" (Rev. 13:2).

When "he" open the the bottomless pit, the sun and the air became darkened by the reason of the smoke, which means the Son of Righteousness—Jesus—was made obscure and His Second Coming in the air was made unprepared.

But "it was commanded" that the sealed of God should not be "hurt" by the reason of the smoke which produced locusts to sting like scorpions. The protection for the sealed God is mentioned: "Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads" in Rev. 7:3.

The beast that ascended from the bottomless pit is the one who has received the "key of the bottomless pit". Thus "he" is called "Abandon" or "Apollyon" which means destruction or destroyer. "He" is the "angel of the bottomless pit" and is called a "king".

There are "seven kings" (Rev. 17:10) in the Beast's power in a figurative word because the Beast's power is against the "seven churches" during the church Ages. In other word, the seven kings are synonym to the seven-headed beast who carries the harlot woman.

The application of the past, the present and the future is appropriate for the seven churches and the seven-headed beast.

SEVEN CHURCHES—Rev. 1:19 "Write the things which thous hast seen (Past), and the things which are (Present), and the things which shall be hereafter (Future)".
SEVEN-HEADED BEAST—Rev. 17:8, 10, and 11
"The beast that thou sawest was (Past), and is not (Present); and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit (Future)", "they behold the beast that was (Past), and is not (Present), and yet is (Future)", "five are fallen (Past), and one is (Present), and the other is not yet come (Future)", "the beast that was (Past), and is not (Present) ... and goeth into perdition (Future)".

The seven-headed beast is mentioned four times with the past, the present and the future just like the seven churches are described. So each head of the Beast's power is the opponent power against the seven churches. Each head of the Beast's power is also called mountain because seemingly its unequaled power: "The seven heads are seven mountains" (Rev. 17:9).

But the saints are empowered with the seven Spirits of God who speaks to each church to overcome the world and the Beast's power. Alleluia!

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