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Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: Charity] #182475
02/10/17 01:35 AM
02/10/17 01:35 AM
His child  Offline
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Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
Josh, I'll have to prayerfully think on this


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: His child] #182478
02/10/17 09:58 PM
02/10/17 09:58 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,416
Midland
Originally Posted By: His child
Originally Posted By: Daryl
Looks like Donald Trump is going to become the next President of the United States, that will show that it was a false prophecy regarding Obama having a 3rd term as President of the United States, becoming a dictator, or whatever.
Originally Posted By: His child
Originally Posted By: kland


Something seemed to have changed between 11/19/16 and 11/28/16.

Would you call this "backpedaling"? If not, what could possibly be called backpedaling in regard to your prediction here?

Yes, you claim you talked to MM about this. How long ago was that? Did you forget that when you make an absolute statement such as:
President Obama is: 1) America's last President


(By the way, if saying, "Then Christ will come before April 1, 2017" is not date setting, I'm not sure what would be)


kland,

I am more convinced that Obama will be President until Christ comes and that Trump will never be inaugurated, but I cannot be dogmatic about a prophecy that has not been fulfilled.

How did God lead His people in the past? They knew without a doubt that Jesus would come in 1843. Oops the year zero through off their calculation by one year. They knew without a doubt that Jesus would come in 1844. Oops the wrong Sanctuary.

We have nothing to fear except we forget how God has led His people in the past. How was that? With infallibility? no! He allowed them to be almost right and then learn from their errors when the time past and they compared the event to the Scriptures.

And you might look up that no message on time quote again and keep it in context. It does not say what you think it says.


My study of Daniel and Revelation confirm that President Obama is the last American President identified in Bible prophecy.

As I understand it, President Trump will not be in office past 3/28/2017. Babylon was a religio-political power. I have understood that there would be 3 popes (Francis, Benedict & Satan as John-Paul II for a brief time) to fulfill the prophecy of religious Babylon. But I did not understand that the political Babylon would end with (Bush II, Obama, and Trump for a brief time).

I do not expect Christ to come by 28 March 2017 because the Time of Trouble has not escalated to that point yet.

And I have learned some marvelous things in my absence from this forum with it's too many doubting Thomases

Habakkuk says wait the vision will come at the appointed time. God is dividing those who go by faith in the sure word of prophecy from those who go by sight.

The word of God is sure. We know in part and we prophecy in part, but when that which is perfect is come then that which is in part will be done away!
Couldn't I pick April 1 and say the same thing? Claiming doubting Thomases?

Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: Josh M] #182479
02/10/17 10:01 PM
02/10/17 10:01 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Posts: 6,416
Midland
Originally Posted By: Josh M
I've been thinking about this today, and while I think I understand how you've presented it, it seems to me that the books still being open would equate with judgement having not actually ended. After all, if changes can still be made in our accounts, then Jesus would still be interceding in the temple in Heaven and therefor judging us. The sealing time began when the investigative judgement began, as Ellen White referred to it in present tense saying "just now in this sealing time" when describing the activities of Satan. ( Early Writings pg.44)

I agree that the books will close when the sealing is finished, but the declaration "It is done" is in the seventh plague. In Revelation 7:3 there is an angel saying to the four holding the winds of heavens "Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads." From this it appears that the time of trouble and the execution of judgement, the plagues, cannot precede the sealing. It then seems that by the time the declaration "It is done" is made in the seventh plague it must be some time after the sealing has already finished. Further, we see in the sixth plague a very sudden declaration "Behold, I come as a thief." At this point Jesus is announcing His return, and must have already ceased the intercessory ministry in the temple.
Could the sealing happen at different times for different groups? Such as, starting in the house and then moving out in the streets? Ezekiel, I believe. Such that all those professed will have their probation closed before those who never had the opportunity before.

(Nothing to do about March 22, though)

Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: His child] #182482
02/11/17 02:22 AM
02/11/17 02:22 AM
C
Charity  Offline OP
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Active Member 2020

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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
Originally Posted By: His child
Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
Another sign that is along these lines is the growing awareness among Adventists that Ellen White places most of the prophecies of Revelation in the future, ...
Quote:

The fifth chapter of Revelation needs to be closely studied. It is of great importance to those who shall act a part in the work of God for these last days. There are some who are deceived. They do not realize what is coming on the earth. . . Unless they make a decided change they will be found wanting when God pronounces judgment upon the children of men. They have transgressed the law and broken the everlasting covenant, and they will receive according to their works. {9T 267.1}

...





Mark,
Here is a brief comment...
Revelation had chapters inserted after it was written

Chapter 6 is part of chapter 5.

The white horse: King Nebuchadnezzar, Babylon, President Reagan

Red horse: King Evil-Meridoch, Medo-Persia, Presiednt Bush I

Black horse: King Neglesser, Greece, President Clinton

sick horse: Kings Nabonidus & Belshazzar, Pagan & papal Rome, Presidents Bush I (death) & Obama (hell)

As Ancient Babylon had Daniel as it's third ruler...briefly, We have Donald John Trump.

Rev 6:10 " How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"

Judgment Hours of dead and living have ended...how long to dispence judgment?

6:15 rich men= Laodiceans who think they need nothing

6:17 Great day has come

Keep it short sanints


I think the seals are still future HC. I don't see a good match to your suggestions. For example the red horse I think indicates war. The black famine. The pale widespread death. We'll see.

Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: Charity] #182484
02/11/17 01:27 PM
02/11/17 01:27 PM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
Originally Posted By: His child
Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
Another sign that is along these lines is the growing awareness among Adventists that Ellen White places most of the prophecies of Revelation in the future, ...
Quote:

The fifth chapter of Revelation needs to be closely studied. It is of great importance to those who shall act a part in the work of God for these last days. There are some who are deceived. They do not realize what is coming on the earth. . . Unless they make a decided change they will be found wanting when God pronounces judgment upon the children of men. They have transgressed the law and broken the everlasting covenant, and they will receive according to their works. {9T 267.1}

...





Mark,
Here is a brief comment...
Revelation had chapters inserted after it was written

Chapter 6 is part of chapter 5.

The white horse: King Nebuchadnezzar, Babylon, President Reagan

Red horse: King Evil-Meridoch, Medo-Persia, Presiednt Bush I

Black horse: King Neglesser, Greece, President Clinton

sick horse: Kings Nabonidus & Belshazzar, Pagan & papal Rome, Presidents Bush I (death) & Obama (hell)

As Ancient Babylon had Daniel as it's third ruler...briefly, We have Donald John Trump.

Rev 6:10 " How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"

Judgment Hours of dead and living have ended...how long to dispence judgment?

6:15 rich men= Laodiceans who think they need nothing

6:17 Great day has come

Keep it short sanints


I think the seals are still future HC. I don't see a good match to your suggestions. For example the red horse I think indicates war. The black famine. The pale widespread death. We'll see.

Well I like where HC put Donald Trump in his 4 horsemans despite I disagree with his 4 horsemen association.

In terms of what Judgment is coming before or at Jesus 2nd coming .... isn't it obvious ? ... if you look back and take note at the Bible narratives and history of what has happened:

1- The Lord gave the law to Israel and a little stripe of land in Canaan to start establishing the Kingdom of God on earth with the Lord's laws.

2- The Bible states clearly that God establishes Kings on earth and gives power to whom He wish. However, this priviledge to rule on earth comes with responsibility and accountability. The Lord is the King of Kings... so He has the right to remove those that abuse this priviledge and the Lord can give it to others.

3- according to the laws of tribulation given in Lev 26 and Deut 28 that says [my summary] ... if you disobey my commandment I will take the kingdom away from you and give it to the nations around you and you will serve them for 7 times...and then after you repent ... I will remember what I promised your forefathers (==give you back the kingdom))

4- So of course, even Moses knew before the nation of Israel entered the promised land that they were going to apostasied. So He taught them a song prophecizing their eventual apostasy.

5- Thus according to Lev 26 & Deut 28, the Lord has put the nation of Israel (and of Judah) under captivity under the rulership of Gentiles Kings (this is the "time of the Gentiles" that Paul is talking about. It is the time the Lord has given to the Gentiles to rule on this earth after taking the rulership away from Israel.

6-So Judgment came on the Nation of Isarel and of Judah for 7 times ( 7 x 360 years - 2520 years of "times of the Gentiles").

7- So now we are at the END of the "times of the Gentiles"... meaning at the end of the Judgment time that was put on the nation of ISRAEL. During this 7 time period -- all the Beasts Kingdom that ruled during the "time of the Gentiles" : Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek, the Roman, the extension of the Roman Empire (the little horn), has all been judged the same way Israel were judged -- they failed to bring about the fruits of the Kingdom and the Kingdom was given to another [my paraphrase of Is 5, Mat 21 & Luk 12].

Today, we have Mystery[secret] Babylon who was given the rulership and power from the Lord for 100 years (because Judah broke off from the rulership of the Greeks for 100 years during the Maccabees war, so the Lord added this 100 years to the 7 times so that Israel serves the FULL 7 times captivity under the Beasts Kingdoms).

Remember, having this "wonderful priviledge" also means Mystery Babylon is under the same obligation to deliver the fruits of the Kingdom to the Lord ... THUS Mystery Babylon will be held accountable when the Kings of kings shall come and Mystery Babylon has no good fruits to return to the Lord. Thus the Lord will take away the kingdom from Mystery Babylon based on the same reasons and the same laws He took the kingdom away from Israel and Judah and all other Beast Kingdoms that it was given to before.

8. Now that we are at the END of the time of the Gentiles, who the Bible says is going to inherit the Kingdom next? Isn't the kingdom given to the "Saints of the Most High"? Which are the "restored" and "well-prepared" nation of Israel.

But before that happens ... a major repentance MUST occur to reverse the judgment as said in :

Lv 26:41 " And [that] I also have walked contrary unto them[Nation of Israel], and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity: 42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

Because we cannot repent on our own.....that's why the Lord will coordinate the-rain-on-all-flesh, at the timing of the END of the time of Gentiles. This rain will bring about this repentance at the end of the 7 times judgment that was put on Israel..... so that that judgment can be reversed and the "land" (the earth where the Kingdom of God is to be established) can be returned to the nation of Israel as promised to Abraham and Jacob to bless all the families of the nations.

This is the judgment narratives that I see in the Bible that applies today at the fall of Mystery Babylon. There's another judgment that comes after the Millennium; but that's a different type of judgment all together. Theirs many types of judgments that the Lord issues. Each judgments are based on the specific judgment said related on a specific law that was broken. So we need to go to the law that was broken to understand what type of judgment we are currently under or about to be released from.

Anyway aren't we way off-topic?


Blessings
Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: kland] #182489
02/11/17 06:12 PM
02/11/17 06:12 PM
J
Josh M  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2018
Regular Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 63
Colorado, USA
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: Josh M
I've been thinking about this today, and while I think I understand how you've presented it, it seems to me that the books still being open would equate with judgement having not actually ended. After all, if changes can still be made in our accounts, then Jesus would still be interceding in the temple in Heaven and therefor judging us. The sealing time began when the investigative judgement began, as Ellen White referred to it in present tense saying "just now in this sealing time" when describing the activities of Satan. ( Early Writings pg.44)

I agree that the books will close when the sealing is finished, but the declaration "It is done" is in the seventh plague. In Revelation 7:3 there is an angel saying to the four holding the winds of heavens "Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads." From this it appears that the time of trouble and the execution of judgement, the plagues, cannot precede the sealing. It then seems that by the time the declaration "It is done" is made in the seventh plague it must be some time after the sealing has already finished. Further, we see in the sixth plague a very sudden declaration "Behold, I come as a thief." At this point Jesus is announcing His return, and must have already ceased the intercessory ministry in the temple.
Could the sealing happen at different times for different groups? Such as, starting in the house and then moving out in the streets? Ezekiel, I believe. Such that all those professed will have their probation closed before those who never had the opportunity before.

I'm not certain. I've started studying that, and at first I wanted to say it's all at once, but I'm considering things. It can at least be said that forgiveness of sin requires Jesus to be interceding in heaven, so when Jesus ends the investigative judgement it is the final and universal close of probation.

Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: Charity] #182490
02/11/17 08:45 PM
02/11/17 08:45 PM
His child  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
Originally Posted By: His child
Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
Another sign that is along these lines is the growing awareness among Adventists that Ellen White places most of the prophecies of Revelation in the future, ...
Quote:

The fifth chapter of Revelation needs to be closely studied. It is of great importance to those who shall act a part in the work of God for these last days. There are some who are deceived. They do not realize what is coming on the earth. . . Unless they make a decided change they will be found wanting when God pronounces judgment upon the children of men. They have transgressed the law and broken the everlasting covenant, and they will receive according to their works. {9T 267.1}

...





Mark,
Here is a brief comment...
Revelation had chapters inserted after it was written

Chapter 6 is part of chapter 5.

The white horse: King Nebuchadnezzar, Babylon, President Reagan

Red horse: King Evil-Meridoch, Medo-Persia, Presiednt Bush I

Black horse: King Neglesser, Greece, President Clinton

sick horse: Kings Nabonidus & Belshazzar, Pagan & papal Rome, Presidents Bush I (death) & Obama (hell)

As Ancient Babylon had Daniel as it's third ruler...briefly, We have Donald John Trump.

Rev 6:10 " How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"

Judgment Hours of dead and living have ended...how long to dispence judgment?

6:15 rich men= Laodiceans who think they need nothing

6:17 Great day has come

Keep it short sanints


I think the seals are still future HC. I don't see a good match to your suggestions. For example the red horse I think indicates war. The black famine. The pale widespread death. We'll see.


We ask John what he saw and heard in the vision at Patmos, and he answers: "And I saw in the right hand of Him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon." {20MR 197.1}
There in His open hand lay the book, the roll of the history of God's providences, the prophetic history of nations and the church. Herein was contained the divine utterances, His authority, His commandments, His laws, the whole symbolic counsel of the Eternal, and the history of all ruling powers in the nations. In symbolic language was contained in that roll the influence of every nation, tongue, and people from the beginning of earth's history to its close. {20MR 197.2}
This roll was written within and without. John says: "I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon." The vision as presented to John made its impression upon his mind. The destiny of every nation was contained in that book. John was distressed at the utter inability of any human being or angelic intelligence to read the words, or even to look thereon. His soul was wrought up to such a point of agony and suspense that one of the strong angels had compassion on him, and laying his hand on him assuringly said, "Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof." {20MR 197.3}


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: Charity] #182492
02/11/17 10:57 PM
02/11/17 10:57 PM
C
Charity  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2020

4500+ Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
HC, yes, the book contains the history and destiny of every people, tongue and nation. The seals on the book are the final Providences of God at the end when the world is arrayed before the bar of God, the book opened and the final chapter lived out.

Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: Charity] #182495
02/12/17 01:43 PM
02/12/17 01:43 PM
His child  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
HC, yes, the book contains the history and destiny of every people, tongue and nation. The seals on the book are the final Providences of God at the end when the world is arrayed before the bar of God, the book opened and the final chapter lived out.


Mark,
I agree. As pointed out. the history of the world has been seen in the white horse Nebuchadnezzar, Babylon, and Reagan.

The pale horse was Nabonidus and Belshazzar, pagan and papal Rome, and Bush II and Obama.

But you do not see Trump there. When ancient Babylon fell it had a third ruler, Daniel for a brief season. We have trump until 28 March 2017 (if he makes it past 10 March 2017) and that is as though he never was (like Daniel the third ruler for an hour or 2).

Then comes the earthquake that accompanies Christ's Coming as does the falling of the stars, the sun and moon going dark, etc.

Food for thought


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: Josh M] #182511
02/14/17 03:55 PM
02/14/17 03:55 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,416
Midland
Originally Posted By: Josh M

I'm not certain. I've started studying that, and at first I wanted to say it's all at once, but I'm considering things. It can at least be said that forgiveness of sin requires Jesus to be interceding in heaven, so when Jesus ends the investigative judgement it is the final and universal close of probation.
Yes, of course that makes sense. But doesn't mean the first one is at the same time as the last one. This can take time. Those who have the opportunity and reject it, their probation is closed. Consider today, someone rejects it, is killed in an accident. So with the living at the end time. Those who have never had the opportunity have a longer time of probation.

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