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Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: Charity] #181534
10/02/16 01:46 PM
10/02/16 01:46 PM
N
Nadi  Offline
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Canada
Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick

Quote:

There will be a hatred kindled against the testimonies which is satanic. The workings of Satan will be to unsettle the faith of the churches in them, for this reason: Satan cannot have so clear a track to bring in his deceptions and bind up souls in his delusions if the warnings and reproofs and counsels of the Spirit of God are heeded.-- Letter 40, 1890. {1SM 48.4}

Satan is . . . constantly pressing in the spurious--to lead away from the truth. The very last deception of Satan will be to make of none effect the testimony of the Spirit of God. "Where there is no vision, the people perish" (Proverbs 29:18). Satan will work ingeniously, in different ways and through different agencies, to unsettle the confidence of God's remnant people in the true testimony.-- Letter 12, 1890. {1SM 48.3}



I am assuming that the above is a quote from Ellen White. It concerns me a bit because it is a classic cult control tactic:

"I'm telling you the truth. People will come along and tell you it's wrong, but don't listen to them. They're evil."

This predisposes people to a close-minded fear position relative to discovering the truth of the situation.

I'm not saying she's wrong or right, just that I don't like that sort of defense of a position. The truth of a statement should stand on its own, or legitimate support, not fear.


"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: Nadi] #181535
10/02/16 03:12 PM
10/02/16 03:12 PM
E
Elle  Offline
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Died February 12, 2019

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Posts: 2,536
Canada
Quote:
I am assuming that the above is a quote from Ellen White. It concerns me a bit because it is a classic cult control tactic:

"I'm telling you the truth. People will come along and tell you it's wrong, but don't listen to them. They're evil."

This predisposes people to a close-minded fear position relative to discovering the truth of the situation.

I'm not saying she's wrong or right, just that I don't like that sort of defense of a position. The truth of a statement should stand on its own, or legitimate support, not fear.

Well said again Nadi.

We need to get back to studying what the Bible actually says(by which Ellen and James always told us that it was a personal duty), working on removing all "heart idols"(teachings of men that we inherited from the past 2000 years from various sources) and rely on the Holy Spirit to teach us what it means.

And yes, the Holy Spirit will teach us things beyond what Ellen White understood for not all things were reveal to her for she was not the last generation people. Ellen understood and commented on her dreams and vision according to what she understood and what was reveal at her time.

Like Abraham thought for 12 years that Ishmael was the promised son. The Lord did not correct Abraham misunderstanding of His promise. Only when it was time to give Sarah a child fulfilling His promise(to a basic level as this promise also pointed to Jesus) did Abraham misunderstanding was corrected. It doesn't mean that Abraham didn't hear the Lord correctly or was a "false prophet" during those 12 years... it was just not time for him and others to know All what the promise given to him meant in application and fulfillment.

It is the same thing with Ellen White. She understood her dreams and visions according to her limited understanding of her time. It doesn't mean that this understanding is 100% correct, nor does it mean that she didn't receive them or that she is a false prophet for expressing what she understood it meant.

We need to understand that "truth is progressive" and always be open for the Lord to correct our current partial understanding. If not, then we will mold these into "heart idols" and the Lord explictly warned us that if we come to Him with pre-conceived ideas....He will multiply these and it will blind us. (Ezk 14:4)


Blessings
Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: Nadi] #181536
10/02/16 06:29 PM
10/02/16 06:29 PM
C
Charity  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Nadi
I am assuming that the above is a quote from Ellen White. It concerns me a bit because it is a classic cult control tactic:

"I'm telling you the truth. People will come along and tell you it's wrong, but don't listen to them. They're evil."

This predisposes people to a close-minded fear position relative to discovering the truth of the situation.

I'm not saying she's wrong or right, just that I don't like that sort of defense of a position. The truth of a statement should stand on its own, or legitimate support, not fear.


Welcome Nadi. The Bible writers do this as well more than once. Because cultic leaders have done the same doesn't discredit the word of God or Ellen White.

Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: Charity] #181537
10/02/16 08:08 PM
10/02/16 08:08 PM
N
Nadi  Offline
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Canada
True.
But that argument is a logical fallacy.
"If A can do it, then it is Ok for B to do it"
You may be able to convince some people with that line of reason, but I'm not one of them.


"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: Charity] #181542
10/03/16 05:54 AM
10/03/16 05:54 AM
dedication  Offline
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The rejection of EGW is unfolding, at a time when her writings are most needed.

People would rather listen to the philosophers of the world and their re-interpretation of the Bible, and listen to the speculative ideas that tickle the imagination, --for it is more pleasing to their natures, then to read Ellen White's clearly Biblical based revelations --

Do you think God may be trying to protect you by sending a prophet to warn you that a popular teaching is false?

Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: dedication] #181556
10/03/16 09:19 PM
10/03/16 09:19 PM
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Nadi  Offline
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Originally Posted By: dedication
Do you think God may be trying to protect you by sending a prophet to warn you that a popular teaching is false?

Actually I think God is trying to protect me by sending his Holy Spirit to guide me into all truth. (John 16:13)


"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: Charity] #181610
10/09/16 06:32 PM
10/09/16 06:32 PM
dedication  Offline
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And how does the Holy Spirit guide you into all truth?

Too often our desires, deductions and impulses are mistaken as the Holy spirit. It is rather amazing how many totally contradicting ideas are proclaimed by various individuals as truth revealed by the Holy Spirit, this makes truth rather arbitrary and dependent upon whatever a person thinks is truth.

So how can we know we are following the Holy Spirits leading?

Quote:
Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

2 Chr. 20:20 Believe in the LORD your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper.


But scripture warns us that there are many false spirits and false prophets.

Quote:
Matt. 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
7:17 Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit.
7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
7:19 Every tree that brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Ezek 13:9 And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies:
13:10 Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace;...
3:16 [To wit], the prophets of Israel which prophesy concerning Jerusalem, and which see visions of peace for her, but there is no peace, saith the Lord GOD.

Luke 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.



I fully agree that we must earnestly pray for the Holy Spirit to guide us into truth.
Without the Holy Spirit in our lives we won't find truth.

Yet there is so much out there that claims to be of the Holy Spirit but isn't.

One cardinal rule to remember --
The Holy Spirit was the One Who directed the writing of scripture.

Quote:
Acts 1:16 Men [and] brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake
2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.


The Holy Spirit will always agree with the scriptures, for He is the author of the scriptures.



It's also noteworthy that scriptures reveal God's prophets were not general received with favor, they tended to be persecuted and shunned, while the false prophets were welcomed.

True prophets called for repentance and turning from sin, which has never been a welcomed message by the majority.

Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: dedication] #181616
10/09/16 10:23 PM
10/09/16 10:23 PM
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Nadi  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 288
Canada
Yes...
Yes...
and Yes..

So, what is your point?


"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: Charity] #181618
10/10/16 04:10 AM
10/10/16 04:10 AM
dedication  Offline
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Posts: 6,411
Canada
What is the point?

Well -- before Christ's first coming God sent a prophet to prepare the way for Him.

Who was that prophet?

Quote:

3:1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Isaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.


Will God send a prophet in the last days as well, before His second coming?

That prophecy in Isaiah sounds like it applies more fully to the last days, for all flesh did NOT see the glory of God at the first coming.

Could it be that God has raised up a prophet to make straight the paths just before Christ's second coming?

Quote:
Isaiah 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
40:4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:
40:5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see [it] together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken [it].

Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: dedication] #181621
10/10/16 07:25 AM
10/10/16 07:25 AM
His child  Offline
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Active Member 2020
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
Originally Posted By: dedication
... before Christ's first coming God sent a prophet to prepare the way for Him.


God always sends a messenger with a warning before He imposes judgment.

He sent Noah, Lot, Jonah, Jesus, etc...

Jonah was the rare exception, folks listened to him.

And the Church listened to Ellen while James was alive, but after his death, they sent her off to Australia (removing her from the seat of authority). But God's messages through her pen, came right on time to guide God's people who would listen to the right message at the right time.


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
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