kland,

I think I can express better now what my objection is to the scientific method in studying spiritual matters.

The scientific method, by definition, excludes faith, for in no definition of the scientific method is faith mentioned. Therefore it is excluded as a part of the scientific method. Whenever we study into spiritual matters, even if it is the writings of a non-inspired individual, we still have to include faith in God, faith in His Word, faith in God to protect His word, etc... in our understanding of what we are reading. Any time we exclude faith as a basis for our understanding in this area we are placing ourselves on the devil's ground. Why? Because only by our faith in God and God's word can we resist the devil's temptations, and be assured that we are being led by the Holy Spirit.

FAITH must rest on evidence.

And you cannot find evidence without faith. Throw out faith and no matter how much you study you will never find evidence of God.

Why is it you seem to think that you must use a method that excludes faith to find evidence? Is that not what Eve did in the Garden? She found her "evidence" outside of her faith, trust, and belief in God's word to her and Adam, and as a result we live in a world of sin. How many examples do you need? How about Judas? He found all of his "evidence" outside of faith and trust in Christ's words, and where did he end up? How about Korah, Dathan, and Abiram? They found all their "evidence" for what they believed outside of faith, trust, and believing God. Where did they end up? How about the Jews of Christ's day? They used the scientific method of pure reason and where did they end up?

The Bible is full of examples of people who laid aside faith to find evidence, and it assures us through it's faithful record that every one of them failed to increase their faith and find a saving relationship with Jesus.

Where did Jesus look for His evidence? His faith and trust in His Father! Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God. This lesson cannot be safely ignored. How did Jesus answer the caviling Pharisees and Saducees? By His trust in God's word, the Torah. He used no other resource. He didn't go to school to learn how to reason. He learned how to think from his mother and the Holy Spirit. They purposely kept Him out of the schools of "reason" so that He might not have a tainted faith. The same with John the Baptist. The Spirit drove him into the wilderness, and there he was taught of God. That was his evidence. And his evidence kept him faithful even to the point of being beheaded.

How much more evidence do you need that you're on the wrong track? Trust God's word. It never fails.

I guess it all depends on what you mean by "evidence".
Yes, there is evidence that the Bible is true!
However, like Gary mentioned, many can't see the evidence because they don't have faith.

Faith is like a mustard seed. Just a little grain of faith implanted with just a little evidence can grow mightily, as by faith we walk and see God's hand in so many things.

On the other side --
Scientists have destroyed the faith of millions of young people. Even in our own schools, and I know this for a fact as my daughter attended an Adventist College and would phone home almost daily in consternation because the science teacher was belittling everything she had learned about science supporting creation. She finally dropped the class.

Sadly
Theistic evolution is accepted by more Adventists then we realize.
The mixing of evolution and theology resulting in theistic evolution, teaches a process of evolution in which God gradually developed life through evolution.

Yet this is rejection, not only of the testimonies, but of scripture itself!

A. Genesis is either a true account of the earth's beginnings.
OR
B. Scripture must be subjected to human reasoning, it was written by scientifically challenged men, and now that the human race is so much smarter, all the "superstitious stuff" has to go.


I believe A. is correct.

While B. leads into so many false pits concerning sin, salvation, and the future, that I don't understand how anyone can believe it and still say they believe the Bible is God's Word.

FAITH - is a gift of God.

Why don't we give the rest of the quote, which is found in Steps to Christ page 105.



You take that quote and misapply it to promote human reasoning. Yet, the entire quote, in context, says that without faith the most highly educated, the best and brightest, will fail of finding God. The quote, in its entirety does not promote human reasoning. It promotes the evidence found by faith.

Here's another quote from AA.



What is it that prepares believer and gives him a safeguard against temptation? Is it education, brains, reasoning? No it is the knowledge of the Father and the Son that is given to the believer. All that pertains to life and godliness is given to those who have faith. Nothing is withheld from them.

Are we to rely on our brains, reasoning, logic, etc...? No. We are to rely upon God and His word. His promises. His faithfulness.

If we want to get to heaven we have to set aside our trust in ourselves, in humanity. We have to place all of our trust in God.

What are you saying? Clearly the EVIDENCE given us appeals to the REASON. John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. How do we know God? Just have faith? What is faith? Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. The word of God is evidence. Faith itself is a gift of God. I really do not see what your objection is, unless you think faith is some kind of blind trust.

And how do you know John 17:3 is true? Faith in God's word is how. If you don't believe, i.e. trust, have faith in, God's word, will you believe the evidence of John 17:3?

If you use a purely scientific method for studying John 17:3, which excludes faith, how will you find out it is true? With the scientific method you can't even prove God exists, let alone that everything the Bible says about Him is true. So how are you going to prove all this outside of faith? Show me a step-by-step process of proving the existence of God that an agnostic scientist will accept. And remember, you cannot rely upon your faith in God's existence to do so.