I was thinking over all the things that we have to get rid of before we go to heaven and they were too numerous, jealousy, pride, anger, just keep going from there.

So then I turned it around and went over what we truly need to have to take with us to heaven and came across what seems to stand out, one of which of course is our physical bodies which will be transformed. So what are the other things we will take....?

SOP gives us a heads up...

The traits of character you cherish in life will not be changed by death or by the resurrection. You will come up from the grave with the same disposition you manifested in your home and in society. Jesus does not change the character at His coming. The work of transformation must be done now. Our daily lives are determining our destiny. Defects of character must be repented of and overcome through the grace of Christ, and a symmetrical character must be formed while in this probationary state, that we may be fitted for the mansions above. 13MR 82

The Bible says it in many different ways but here is my favorite....

1 Corinthians 13:1-10King James Version (KJV)

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Fortunately, this is God's work (Phil. 1:6) and not in my job description.

True it is God's work to transform our characters,
however, we are not robots with nothing to do concerning this, God gave us a mind to choose.
Do we choose to place our wills under (in submission to) God's will, or will we insist on doing things our own way?
God does not force the transformation, but if we are willing and daily submit self to Him, He will lead us into the paths of righteousness for His name's sake.

At the risk of derailing this thread as well, I will make a small comment:

I choose to place my will under (in submission to) God's will as I understand His will and not as someone tells me it is,

Good -- we are to seek God's will for our lives not depend on ministers or other people's opinions.
But now -- how do we know God's will?

Too many depend upon their feelings --
but according to scripture:

Jer. 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
17:15 Behold, they say unto me, Where is the word of the LORD? let it come now.

Rev. 1:3 Blessed is he that reads, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Also according to scripture:

John 16:13 "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come."

John 14:16 "And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever--"

John 6:45 "It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me."

So I'm not sure why one would advocate there is another essential component other than 1) the Holy Spirit and 2)Scripture. All others are suspect and not to be trusted. They can be helpful, but they are not essential.

O.K. so we do not derail the subject let's see --

Do scriptures tell us that our characters need to be transformed before we can enter God's glorious kingdom, or will God magically transform them at the second coming?

Now I know if one poster here, Elle, joins this conversation she claims everyone will be saved eventually, if they don't change now, God will see to it that they will be changed sometime in eternity.
But most of the rest of us here do not believe that.

Most of the rest of us posting on this forum, believe our present life on earth is probationary time -- the time we chose salvation from sin through Jesus, or to remain in sin and lose out eternity.


What do you believe?

I'm not real sure what you're flogging here, but let me clarify a few points from the way I see it.

We don't chose salvation, we chose Jesus.
We don't take anything to heaven, Jesus takes us.

That is in God's job description.


As mentioned in the "probation" thread, this concept needs fleshing out, because I'm not finding a lot of support for this idea. People seem to use the term a lot assuming that everyone else "knows what they mean." In reality it does not seem to have a real clear definition.

"Probation" has 2 meanings:
1)the release of an offender from detention, subject to a period of good behavior under supervision.

and/or

2)the process or period of testing or observing the character or abilities of a person in a certain role, for example, a new employee.

Neither of these two seem to fit with "salvation theory" for lack of a better term.

So offer up your definition of "probation" and how/when/why it closes.


btw, we are now officially derailed.

Choosing Jesus is choosing salvation.
There is no salvation anywhere else.

I will try to explain what is meant when we use the term
"time of probation" in spiritual terms.
It's probably closest to your first definition but not identical.

We are all offenders under the sentence of death, thanks to Adam plunging the human race into rebellion against God, as well as due to our sins.

Without Christ's "plan of salvation" there would be no hope, everyone would die and that would be the end of the human race.

But thanks to Christ's sacrifice we, the offenders are released from that eternal death sentence and given a period of grace in which we have the opportunity to choose Christ.

We are given a short life here on earth to accept Christ and invite Him into our lives to free us not only from guilt and the penalty of sin, but also from the power of sin, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. This is the time of probation.

Once probation closes -- either at death, or just prior to the second coming at the end of this earth's sinful history, there is no more opportunity to change our "salvation status". We are either fully committed to Christ and assured of salvation, or we are following the rebel, Satan, in rebellion to Christ and His laws, and thus have rejected salvation and eternal life.

True. But choosing salvation is not necessarily choosing Jesus.



That's why we choose Jesus, not salvation.