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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #181586
10/07/16 02:19 PM
10/07/16 02:19 PM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 487
Michigan, US
The beast that ascended from the bottomless pit is the king, who is against the church of God throughout the Christian dispensation. The seven churches parallel with the seven-headed beast. The seven-headed beast is also named "seven kings" (Rev. 17:10). Each head of the beast carries the harlot who sit upon the beast.

The Beast = a king = the angel of the bottomless pit (Rev. 9:11)
Seven kings = the seven-headed beast = carries the harlot (See Rev. 17:1-10)
The harlot sits on the seven-headed beast = the beast that was, and is not, and yet is (Rev. 17:8) = Papacy

The Papacy ruled 1,260 years (Thyatira church period); wounded his head at the French Revolution (Sardis church period)—"five are fallen" (Rev. 17:10); the ten horns=the ten kings give "power and strength unto the beast"—"the other is not yet come" (Rev. 17:10)—the seventh and eighth head of the beast exist with Laodicean church period.

Seven churches Seven-headed Beast
Ephesus--------------- First head
Smyrna---------------- Second head
Pergamon------------- Third head
Thyatira--------------- Fourth head
Sardis------------------ Fifth head
Philadelphia----------- Sixth head
Laodicean------------- Seventh head + Eighth head

Rev. 17:9 "And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth."

Rev. 13:18 "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man."

The "seven mountains" depicts insurmountable powers of the beast against the seven churches. However, Jesus guarantees us to be the overcomer by the throne of God, which is the victory in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rev. 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcome, and am set down with my Father in his throne."

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #181602
10/09/16 02:54 AM
10/09/16 02:54 AM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 487
Michigan, US
Correction:
Quote:
The Papacy ruled 1,260 years (Thyatira church period); wounded his head at the French Revolution (Sardis church period)—"five are fallen" (Rev. 17:10); the ten horns=the ten kings give "power and strength unto the beast"—"the other is not yet come" (Rev. 17:10)—the seventh and eighth head of the beast exist with Laodicean church period.

Wounded his head during the reformation church period. French Revolution marks the beginning of the Philadelphia church period, which is the sixth head.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #181617
10/10/16 01:16 AM
10/10/16 01:16 AM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 487
Michigan, US
Chapter 12:
Great wonder in heaven:
-->woman-->travailing in birth-->child born-->caught up unto God

another wonder in heaven:
-->Red dragon-->7 heads (7 crowns)/10 horns-->ready to devour the child-->woe to earth

Chapter 13
The dragon persecuted the woman (church) which brought forth the man child.
The beast-->7 heads/10 horns (10 crowns)

Rev. 12:17 "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Dragon with 7 heads (7 crowns)/ 10 horns==>Beast with 7 heads/10 horns (10 crowns)
Woman==>Seven churches. The dragon is wroth with the woman and went to make war with her through his vicegerent, the beast. No wonder that the dragon and the beast have the same feature of the 7 heads and ten horns.

The beast is called a king, who ascended from the bottomless pit because he is the angel of the bottomless pit. (See Rev. 9:11). So the seven-headed beast power is called seven kings, which is against the seven churches (Rev. 17:10). Got wisdom to understand this? "here is the mind which hath wisdom" (Rev. 17:9). "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast" (Rev. 13:18).

Therefore, the seven heads of the beast are the seven kings. And in a figurative word, the seven heads are also called seven mountains because the beast power appears to be so powerful to conquer. But notice this, the "five are fallen" and eventually, all the heads of the beast will "go into perdition" (Rev. 17:8,11).

Conclusively, the seven-headed beast is the antagonist power against the seven churches.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: kland] #181622
10/10/16 09:18 AM
10/10/16 09:18 AM
His child  Offline
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[Karen
I see that you have kept this thread alive after I set is aside for some time. I am sorry to go back 6 pages to reply to something that does not fit the current conversation. But I just saw some posts addressed to me that I had overlooked.]

Originally Posted By: kland
Yes, I understand you saying the dragon or false prophet represents popes, but I was asking
Show where Ellen White says that either the dragon or false prophet represents any pope, let alone some specific pope.


Quote:
Are not such teachers the pretenders to whom Christ referred when he said, "Beware of false prophets..." the pope of Rome. {RH, July 24, 1888 par. 11}


Here is the whole paragraph quoted:

Quote:
Are not such teachers the pretenders to whom Christ referred when he said, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits." "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." God's will is expressed in his holy law. This is the only correct standard of righteousness, and if a man's character stands in harmony with the Lord's standard, his testimony may be received and relied upon; but if he stands in opposition to the requirements of God, he measures himself and others by his own finite, fallible standard, and may claim as much as does the pope of Rome. In the light of the royal law, his character may be lacking in every essential qualification of purity and righteousness. He has torn down the true detector of sin, and has trampled it in the dust. He claims great spiritual riches,--wants nothing that he has not, and boasts of the grace of Christ, which he has turned into lasciviousness. These characters will multiply, and by smooth words and deceptive speeches will deceive the unwary and those who do not try the professions of men by the great Tester of character. {RH, July 24, 1888 par. 11}

Quote:
Through the great powers controlled by paganism and the papacy, symbolized by the dragon and the leopard-like beast, Satan for many centuries destroyed God's faithful witnesses.{4SP 276.2}


Ellen White says in that quote that the papacy is symbolized by the dragon.

Quote:
The pope is not regarded by God as anything more than a man who is acting out in our world the character of the man of sin, representing in his claims that power and authority which Satan claimed in the heavenly courts. {5MR 102.2}


Quote:
through the Papacy, Satan exerted his power for many centuries {ST, November 1, 1899 par. 4}


Quote:
the false prophet cry, "Peace, peace," {5T 77.1}


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #181623
10/10/16 10:38 AM
10/10/16 10:38 AM
His child  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Karen Y
The Scripture is recorded that the king Herod was Satan's agent to "devour her child as soon as it was born" (Rev. 12:5).

Matt. 2:1-18 "Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem....When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, ...he demanded of them where Christ should be born...Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently...for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him...Then Herod,...was exceeding wroth, .. and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem...from two years old and under...Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet,..."

In Rev. Chap. 12, the woman gave birth to Manchild, Jesus, but "her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne" (verse 5). Thus "the dragon was wroth with the woman (because he could not devour Manchild), and went to make war with the remnant of her seed," (Rev. 12:17) with the seven heads.

It makes more sense to me that the significance of the seven heads of the dragon is the counterpart to the christian eras (seven churches) rather than starting to count the dragon's seven heads from the ancient empire nations.


I can see why that would make more sense. But prophecy is oftren like a chain of events.

The events in Revelation 12 are not sequential .

vv 1-2= woman appearing
vv 3-4= dragon taking stars from heaven
vv 5=manChild born & returned to Heaven

The correct sequencing of vv 1-5=a reversal of narration
war--woman--Christ's birth & return to Heaven

v 6=woman flees into wilderness 1260-days
vv 7-9=war in Heaven

The correct sequencing of vv 6-9=a reversal of narration
war--woman flees 1260-days/years

combining vv 1-9=
war--woman flees 1260-years--Christ's birth & return to Heaven

vv 10-11=Christ uplifted/Satan cast down
v 12=joy in Heaven & woe on earth

The correct sequencing of vv 6-9=a reversal of narration
Satan cast down--joy in Heaven--Christ uplifted--woe on earth

v 13-16=persecuted woman fled to earth to escape flood 1260-days
v 17=dragon made war with the remnant after Christ in Heaven

after Christ returned to Heaven war for 1260-years with the remnant

there are 2 1260-year periods mentioned here
1) Before the manChild was born
2) After Christ ascended to Heaven


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #181661
10/17/16 01:27 AM
10/17/16 01:27 AM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 487
Michigan, US
Rev. 17:17 "For God hath put in their hearts to fulfill his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled."

The Words of God has been fulfilled regarding the beast and very short time is left for the beast. We are told just "one hour" remained for the beast. Rev. 17:12 says, "the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings ONE HOUR with the beast." (emphasis added by me).

The fifth trumpet describes precisely what the beast is doing to torment people: such torments as "men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them" (Rev. 9:6).

Rev. 13:10 says, "He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword."

Therefore, the beast must be recompensed. Notice where the fifth plague is poured out. Rev. 16:10 "the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain".

The seat of the beast gnaw their tongues for pain and blaspheme God "because of their pains and their sores" (Rev. 16:11). This event is announced by the fifth trumpet which portrays the one and the same torment. Thus God is warning the world by the trumpet that the close of probation is very imminent and the seven plagues are coming.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #181674
10/19/16 06:04 AM
10/19/16 06:04 AM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 487
Michigan, US
The seat of the beast began to be plagued, when "all the world wondered after the beast" (Rev. 13:3). And when "all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him (the beast)" (Rev. 13:8)—except those of whom are recorded in the book of life of the Lamb—the beast and his kingdom will suffer the plague.

How can our names be recorded in the book of life of the Lamb? by making Jesus Christ our intercessor, who pleads God for us with His blood in the heavenly sanctuary. In another words, our names can be taken out from the book of life, if we do not make Jesus as our intercessor. Rev. 22:19 says, "God shall take away his part out of the book of life." Rev. 20:15 says, "whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

[The book of life is mentioned seven times in Revelation and each time it has some connection with the warnings of the beast (Rev. 3:5, 13:8, 17:8, 20:12, 20:15, 21:27, and 22:19). We are not to be surrendered to the beast but make sure our names are recorded in the book of life.]

The seven trumpets message indicates that we have approached the close of probation.
There is a "time no longer" as the interlude of the seven trumpets gives an answer in the pause. Let us make Jesus our intercessor and keep our eyes on Him now that our names can remain in the book of life.

The beast is the "woe" to the inhabitants of the earth because he is allied with the dragon. Rev. 12:12 says, "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he fnoweth that he hath but a short time." The dragon "gave him (the beast) his power, and his seat, and great authority" (Rev. 13:2). So the beast is the dragon's agent.

The dragon realizes that his time is short and Bible says the beast have only "one hour" before he goes into perdition. Satan will not yield up the conflict without a struggle but God's people will ever be strong to tell the world that the close of probation is imminent and Jesus is coming soon.

The seat of the beast and his kingdom is full of darkness now, which is the fifth plague upon them. They suffer pain and they gnaw their tongues for pain. They will not repent even in the such pain and torment but continues to blaspheme God. The fifth trumpet announces their torments: "in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them" (Rev. 9:6).

"Solemn events before us are yet to transpire. Trumpet after trumpet is to be sounded, vial after vial poured out one after another upon the inhabitants of the earth. Scenes of stupendous interest are with upon us." Mar 257.5

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #181676
10/19/16 05:16 PM
10/19/16 05:16 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,424
Midland
Quote:
there are 2 1260-year periods mentioned here
1) Before the manChild was born
2) After Christ ascended to Heaven

No reversal. There are 2 1260 time periods
1) 1260 years after Christ ascended to Heaven
2) 1260 days before Christ comes

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: kland] #181684
10/21/16 01:39 AM
10/21/16 01:39 AM
His child  Offline
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Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
Originally Posted By: kland
Quote:
there are 2 1260-year periods mentioned here
1) Before the manChild was born
2) After Christ ascended to Heaven

No reversal. There are 2 1260 time periods
1) 1260 years after Christ ascended to Heaven
2) 1260 days before Christ comes


Difficult to understand what you are posting in relation to the post that you are commenting on.


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #181736
10/26/16 02:07 AM
10/26/16 02:07 AM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 487
Michigan, US
The motif of the Seven Trumpets is the close of probation. In the instruction, the ministration of Jesus is clearly presented, which denotes that while the Seven Trumpets message goes out, His intercession is available.

The interlude of the Seven Trumpets further explains what we need to know about the close of probation. We are to "measure the temple ... and the altar" and "leave out" the court and "measure it not" (Rev. 11:1,2). What does it mean? I believe that we are to study the sanctuary where Jesus is ministering the final phase in the heavenly courts to understand the meaning of the close of probation. Another words, we need to know that Jesus is ministering upon the altar having a golden censer with the collected prayers of all saints, including Adam to last generation. When Jesus cast the ashes upon the earth, the probation will be closed.

We are to leave out and measure not the close of probation with the mankind's history. We cannot measure the heavenly things with the finite history of men. The science of redemption of man is so deep and great, it can only uttered by the things above. God instructed Moses to build the sanctuary by the heavenly pattern which was shown.

Each trumpet portrays the close of probation:
1) 1/3 humanity will be destroyed
2) 1/3 sea creature dies and ships destroyed
3) many men die by the drinking water turned bitter
4) heavenly bodies manifest signs of the time
5) spiritual torments to unsealed of God
6) the four angels loosened and 1/3 of men slain
7) the kingdoms of the earth becomes Christ's

The shadow of the Seven Plagues are already falling:
1) grievous sores upon men
2) sea became bloody and deadly
3) drinking water became bloody
4) sun scorching heat
5) seat of the beast darkened
6) three unclean spirits unite
7) It is done-voices, thundering, lightning, earthquake, and hail upon the earth

The Seven Plagues fall before the close of probation. The plagues are getting worse and worse right now in this world and the close of probation is imminent. Many men will be dying and will be spiritually tormented at the close of probation.

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