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Daniel 9 and the 144,000 #182487
02/11/17 02:24 PM
02/11/17 02:24 PM
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In 1989 I had a dream.  Two holy men in heaven were talking discussing the end of the seventy weeks and one said to the other that at the end of that period everlasting righteousness could have been established in Israel if they had accepted the Messiah.  It wasn't until recently that it occurred to me that this implies that the prophecy of Daniel 9 will eventually be fulfilled at the sealing of spiritual Israel. 

Some expositors such as George Whitfield have held that Christ established the everlasting righteousness of Daniel 9 at the cross, and while this is a glorious truth, it is only part of it. The purpose of the cross is to bring everlasting righteousness to God's people, spiritual Israel. That only happens when the church is fully settled into the truth, perfected and sealed by the Holy Spirit. It occurs first in the sealing of the 144,000 and then in the great multitude. This is where the everlasting righteousness spoken of in Daniel 9 is fully established.

We are near the fulfillment of Rev 7 but Rev 7 is the fulfillment of Daniel 9. One evidence of this is that there is no historic fulfillment of the seven and sixty two weeks. If all of the particulars of a prophecy haven't been fulfilled, we are to look to the future for a complete fulfillment.

But there is potentially greater evidence that could help confirm or disprove my thesis. The seventieth seven, that is, the 70th Jubilee expires this spring which suggests liberation for the church but judgment for the world. If my calculations are correct I only have a couple of months to see more about whether I'm on the right track.  

Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: Charity] #182488
02/11/17 02:30 PM
02/11/17 02:30 PM
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Charity  Offline OP
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Regarding time setting, I'm not saying anything must happen this spring. I'm saying it could and if it does, we'll have a better picture of where we stand prophetically.

Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: Charity] #182514
02/15/17 05:53 AM
02/15/17 05:53 AM
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The seventy weeks.
Daniel 24. "Seventy weeks are determined for your people
and for your holy city...

These seventy weeks are divided into three parts:

7 weeks (49 years) that begin with the command and depict difficult times in which the work to rebuilt staggered along to completion.
457 - 408 B.C.

62 weeks (434 years) Judah's extended probationary time from the rebuilt nation beginning in 408 BC to the anointing at baptism of the Messiah in 27 AD.

1 week (7 years) The years Christ came to confirm the covenant with His people. This final week began in 27 AD at Christ's baptism and ended in 34 AD when Judah as a nation rejected Christ and started a heavy persecution against Christ's followers (signified by the stoning of Stephen).






The 70 weeks began at the command --

Daniel 9: 25 reads "From the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem. . .the street shall be built again and the walls, even in troublous times.

457 BC

Ezra received this decree from Artaxerxes in 457 BC. (In the seventh year of Artaxerxes) The decree gives further help in establishing the temple, but it also gives Israel the right to self government. Up till 457 BC the leaders in Judea were no more than county commissioners. They could look after local problems but they did not have judicial or executive authority. Now they did! They could set up their own magistrates and judges to carry out their laws. Now they were a sovereign city/state nation. This is why this decree is so important to the reestablishment of Jerusalem!

The returned captives start to rebuild their city in earnest -- but trouble descends and pretty much stops the work.

Their neighboring nations (Samaritans) wrote to Artaxerxes that Israel should not be allowed to rebuild, "the rebellious city, finishing its walls and repairing the foundations" because (the adversaries said) Israel would rise in rebellion."

Since some of Persia's western territories were causing trouble, Artazerxes complied with the Samaritans and order the building of Jerusalem to cease until further notice.

The kings reply was great victory for the Samaritans who went "immediately to the Jews in Jerusalem and compelled them by force to stop" (Ezra 4:23) While they were about it, they apparently knocked down the rebuilt sections of the wall, and burned several gates. (Neh.1:3)

Ten years go by with no work being done.

The Nehemiah appears 13 years after Ezra.
Nehemiah's first period in Jerusalem 445–433 BC saw the walls built and other improvements. Nehemiah returns to Persia for awhile, then comes back to Jerusalem to continue his work. He is governor of Judea until 408, B.C.

This marks the end of the 7 weeks or 49 years of troublous rebuilding of the city/state of Jerusalem.


So we have the
7 weeks (49 years) of Ezra/Nehemiah era of rebuilding the city state of Jerusalem in troublous times. 457 - 408

These weeks all fulfilled.



Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: Charity] #182523
02/18/17 07:49 AM
02/18/17 07:49 AM
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Charity  Offline OP
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Psa 122:1 A Song of degrees of David. I was glad when they said unto me, Let us go into the house of the LORD.
Psa 122:2 Our feet shall stand within thy gates, O Jerusalem.
Psa 122:3 Jerusalem is builded as a city that is compact together:
Psa 122:4 Whither the tribes go up, the tribes of the LORD, unto the testimony of Israel, to give thanks unto the name of the LORD.
Psa 122:5 For there are set thrones of judgment, the thrones of the house of David.
Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
Rev 4:3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
Rev 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
Rev 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Rev 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

Rev 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: Charity] #182534
02/19/17 12:42 PM
02/19/17 12:42 PM
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Charity  Offline OP
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This last verse below, Zech 2:13, is when the command to restore and build Jerusalem is finally fulfilled. When God sees the plight of His people, for His own name He will rise up out of His holy habitation.

Mic 4:8 And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.

Zec 2:1 I lifted up mine eyes again, and looked, and behold a man with a measuring line in his hand.
Zec 2:2 Then said I, Whither goest thou? And he said unto me, To measure Jerusalem, to see what is the breadth thereof, and what is the length thereof.
Zec 2:3 And, behold, the angel that talked with me went forth, and another angel went out to meet him,
Zec 2:4 And said unto him, Run, speak to this young man, saying, Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls for the multitude of men and cattle therein:
Zec 2:5 For I, saith the LORD, will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her.
Zec 2:9 For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me.
Zec 2:10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.
Zec 2:11 And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.
Zec 2:12 And the LORD shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem again.
Zec 2:13 Be silent, O all flesh, before the LORD: for he is raised up out of his holy habitation.



Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: Charity] #182536
02/19/17 04:37 PM
02/19/17 04:37 PM
His child  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
This last verse below, Zech 2:13, is when the command to restore and build Jerusalem is finally fulfilled. When God sees the plight of His people, for His own name He will rise up out of His holy habitation.


“Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times” (Daniel 9:25). When the alternate meanings of Gabriel’s words from the original language are studied, an endtime meaning that differs from what the translators understood before the book of Daniel was unsealed and opened repeats and enlarges the prophecy: From studying it in Strong's...

The word translated restore also means to turn back (from God), apostatize; build is to be built up like a childless wife becoming the mother of a family through the children of a concubine; Jerusalem is literally teaching of peace; and messiah also means anointed; prince is ruler. (Jesus was the Anointed Prince, but in the endtime Antichrist is anointed— prince of the covenant.) Street is from the root enlarged. Wall is from a word that means: decision and moat; wall is past participle of decree. For the endtime, Gabriel is saying…

Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the command to apostatize by the mother to the children teaching peace unto the anointing of the ruler shall be seven weeks and threescore and two weeks. This is enlarged: from the mother’s decree to the children, the time of anguish shall come again (Daniel 9:25, endtime meaning).

The mother church is the Roman Catholic Church because she is the mother of the Protestant churches that left her. The Roman Church’s decree teaching peace was Dies Domini (the Lord’s Day). It links Sunday to peace in sections 1, 18, 26, 33, 44, 52, 67, & 73. Dies Domini was issued on May 31, 1998 (the 6th of Sivan on the Hebrew calendar[http://www.hebcal.com/hebcal/?year=1998&v=1&month=x&yt=G&nh=on&nx=on&vis=0&d=on&c=off]):

“On the 6th Sivan…after the Exodus, G-d revealed Himself on Mount Sinai” and gave the Ten Commandments.[www.chabad.org/calendar/view/day_cdo/aid/282243/jewish/Torah-Given.htm] On the anniversary of God giving the Ten Commandments, John-Paul II’s decree voided the Sabbath Commandment…

“Sunday: ‘This is the day which the Lord has made: let us rejoice and be glad in it’ (Ps 118:24)… And it echoes the joy — at first uncertain and then overwhelming — which the Apostles experienced on the evening of that same day, when they were visited by the Risen Jesus and received the gift of his peace and of his Spirit (cf. John 20:19-23).”

Pope John-Paul II titles chapter III: “The Eucharistic Assembly: Heart of Sunday.” In it, he called for ALL the FAITHFUL to join in the Eucharist Assembly on Sunday:

“As the day on which man is at peace with God, with himself and with others, Sunday becomes…an inviolable law of concord and love… It is crucially important that all the faithful should be convinced that they cannot live their faith or share fully in the life of the Christian community unless they take part regularly in the Sunday Eucharistic assembly.”[APOSTOLIC LETTER, 31 May 1998. Sections 1, 67, & 81 https://www.ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2dies.htm]


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: Charity] #182538
02/19/17 11:20 PM
02/19/17 11:20 PM
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Charity  Offline OP
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Zec 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
Zec 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

According to Ellen White, this passage above applies especially to God's people at the end, spiritual Jerusalem. God will save and cleanse Jerusalem, the daughter of Zion, His beautiful bride. He will restore the fortunes of Zion and build her walls. Ps. 122.

Zec 8:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury.
Zec 8:3 Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain.
Zec 8:4 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age.
Zec 8:5 And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof.
Zec 8:6 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If it be marvellous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in these days, should it also be marvellous in mine eyes? saith the LORD of hosts.
Zec 8:7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country;
Zec 8:8 And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness.

Zec 8:20 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; It shall yet come to pass, that there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities:
Zec 8:21 And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the LORD, and to seek the LORD of hosts: I will go also.
Zec 8:22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.
Zec 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: Charity] #182539
02/19/17 11:34 PM
02/19/17 11:34 PM
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Charity  Offline OP
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Here's another prophecy related to Daniel 9 about Jerusalem that has also never been fulfilled. It is getting a lot of attention in Evangelical circles lately because they are concerned about the resurgence of antisemitism. And while it has an application to the Jews this applies especially to spiritual Israel, the church, Jew and Gentile.

Zec 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Zec 12:4 In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
Zec 12:5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
Zec 12:6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
Zec 12:7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

The walls of spiritual Jerusalem, a cloud of protection by day and a pillar of fire by night, lighting the way through the darkness, will once again surround the city of God in the final days of earth's history.

Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: Charity] #182540
02/20/17 06:01 AM
02/20/17 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
Here's another prophecy related to Daniel 9 about Jerusalem that has also never been fulfilled. It is getting a lot of attention in Evangelical circles lately because they are concerned about the resurgence of antisemitism. And while it has an application to the Jews this applies especially to spiritual Israel, the church, Jew and Gentile.

Zec 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Zec 12:4 In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
Zec 12:5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
Zec 12:6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
Zec 12:7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

The walls of spiritual Jerusalem, a cloud of protection by day and a pillar of fire by night, lighting the way through the darkness, will once again surround the city of God in the final days of earth's history.
(bold emphasis mine)

Please explain.

At what time do you believe this prophecy will be fulfilled and how?

Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: Charity] #182541
02/20/17 06:11 AM
02/20/17 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
In 1989 I had a dream.  Two holy men in heaven were talking discussing the end of the seventy weeks and one said to the other that at the end of that period everlasting righteousness could have been established in Israel if they had accepted the Messiah.  It wasn't until recently that it occurred to me that this implies that the prophecy of Daniel 9 will eventually be fulfilled at the sealing of spiritual Israel. 

Some expositors such as George Whitfield have held that Christ established the everlasting righteousness of Daniel 9 at the cross, and while this is a glorious truth, it is only part of it. The purpose of the cross is to bring everlasting righteousness to God's people, spiritual Israel. That only happens when the church is fully settled into the truth, perfected and sealed by the Holy Spirit. It occurs first in the sealing of the 144,000 and then in the great multitude. This is where the everlasting righteousness spoken of in Daniel 9 is fully established.

We are near the fulfillment of Rev 7 but Rev 7 is the fulfillment of Daniel 9. One evidence of this is that there is no historic fulfillment of the seven and sixty two weeks. If all of the particulars of a prophecy haven't been fulfilled, we are to look to the future for a complete fulfillment.

But there is potentially greater evidence that could help confirm or disprove my thesis. The seventieth seven, that is, the 70th Jubilee expires this spring which suggests liberation for the church but judgment for the world. If my calculations are correct I only have a couple of months to see more about whether I'm on the right track.  
(bold emphasis mine)

By "seventieth seven" do you mean the seventieth week of Daniel 9? If so, that has been completely fulfilled already. Now, there may a dual meaning or secondary meaning if you would please explain that in more detail.

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