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Re: What will we take to heaven....??
[Re: Elle]
#181807
11/02/16 04:39 PM
11/02/16 04:39 PM
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Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019
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Posts: 2,536
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What I really look for is legitimate Biblical scholarship using accepted methods of biblical interpretation. This is so rare to find.
Each statement or conclusion must be supported by a legitimate reading of the text. You do not do this. Neither does Elle. Dedication tries, but is (unfortunately) heavily influenced by Ellen White.
We must return to the actual text of scripture, and must not impose our bias onto the text. This is so difficult to do, mainly because we do not realize that we are doing it.
WE MUST CHALLENGE EVERY STATEMENT WE MAKE, AND INSURE THAT IT IS SUPPORTED BY A LEGITIMATE READING OF SCRIPTURE. Glad to hear you're interested in seriously studying. Wonderful!. Great. Well could you start by answering the following that you failed to support your statement with scriptures and address Num 9 that I believe counter your statement. Once probation closes -- either at death, or just prior to the second coming at the end of this earth's sinful history, there is no more opportunity to change our "salvation status". While I agree that at death there is no more opportunity to make any choices, Oh!? Which Bible texts says that? I found none! However, there is a law found in Num 9:6-12 that says there is an opportunity for any man who missed keeping the 1st Passover(which symbolizes justification) to keep it on the 2nd month. (I will expand on this in the Are we at the close of probation?Here's the link of Post#181792 where I quote and expanded a little on Num 9(see the last part of the post).
Blessings
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Re: What will we take to heaven....??
[Re: Elle]
#181808
11/02/16 05:42 PM
11/02/16 05:42 PM
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While I agree that at death there is no more opportunity to make any choices, Oh!? Which Bible texts says that? I found none! Ecclesiastes 9:5 "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten" Psalms 146:4 "His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." Isa. 38:18 "For the grave cannot praise you, death cannot sing your praise; those who go down to the pit cannot hope for your faithfulness." Ps. 6:5 "Among the dead no one proclaims your name. Who praises you from the grave?" Ps. 115:17 "It is not the dead who praise the LORD, those who go down to the place of silence;"
"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
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Re: What will we take to heaven....??
[Re: Elle]
#181809
11/02/16 05:46 PM
11/02/16 05:46 PM
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However, there is a law found in... I disagree with your numerous and fanciful "laws" and prefer to stick to legitimate, rational bible study methods.
"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
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Re: What will we take to heaven....??
[Re: Nadi]
#181819
11/03/16 03:44 PM
11/03/16 03:44 PM
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However, there is a law found in... I disagree with your numerous and fanciful "laws" and prefer to stick to legitimate, rational bible study methods. ??? Do you include what the whole law(Pentateuch) says in your studying methods to come to know what is truth or not?
Blessings
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Re: What will we take to heaven....??
[Re: Rick H]
#181821
11/03/16 09:03 PM
11/03/16 09:03 PM
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Elle, you have stated before that whether you yourself keep "the whole law" or not isn't relevant, but what you say.
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Re: What will we take to heaven....??
[Re: Nadi]
#182056
12/03/16 06:41 PM
12/03/16 06:41 PM
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Elle, please respond to the following where I point out the texts you claim do not exist. While I agree that at death there is no more opportunity to make any choices, Oh!? Which Bible texts says that? I found none! Ecclesiastes 9:5 "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten" Psalms 146:4 "His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." Isa. 38:18 "For the grave cannot praise you, death cannot sing your praise; those who go down to the pit cannot hope for your faithfulness." Ps. 6:5 "Among the dead no one proclaims your name. Who praises you from the grave?" Ps. 115:17 "It is not the dead who praise the LORD, those who go down to the place of silence;"
"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
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Re: What will we take to heaven....??
[Re: Nadi]
#182057
12/03/16 11:23 PM
12/03/16 11:23 PM
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Died February 12, 2019
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Elle, please respond to the following where I point out the texts you claim do not exist. Sorry Nadi, I didn't see you had responded with texts. I meant to get back to you anyway using kland comment to me regarding "fanciful" application of the law. I'm not the one who talks in symbolic language (see Num 12:8). It is the Lord who speaks in such a way that requires the Spirit to solve the puzzle. I will get back to this by answering kland. While I agree that at death there is no more opportunity to make any choices, Oh!? Which Bible texts says that? I found none! Ecclesiastes 9:5 "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten" Psalms 146:4 "His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." Isa. 38:18 "For the grave cannot praise you, death cannot sing your praise; those who go down to the pit cannot hope for your faithfulness." Ps. 6:5 "Among the dead no one proclaims your name. Who praises you from the grave?" Ps. 115:17 "It is not the dead who praise the LORD, those who go down to the place of silence;" Nadi, none of these texts suggest that there ain't any other opportunity after the resurrection of the dead. These text all refers to our state when we are in the graves(the unseen). But we all know that we all will be call out of the graves either at the 1st or 2nd resurrection. Jesus describes being dead or being in the grave(the unseen) as a SLEEP. So, none of these texts address what happens after they come out of the unseen (once they are resurrected), they will have their minds, body, and spirit back and they will be aware of the Judgment process and what the Lord is saying and doing. These text only says what you cannot do while you are in the grave(the unseen). However what happens after the resurrection is another story and they will be able to do what they weren't able to do while being in the grave. None of these texts makes reference to our state after the resurrection nor is stating whether or not there is another opportunity. Just a side note here : only your soul goes to the grave(the unseen) according to scriptures...Right? Your body goes back to dust and your Spirit returns to the Lord. see (Ps 146:4 you quoted and other scriptures). Here is what the texts you brought forth is saying : A. You(the soul) don't know anything, nor any reward, nor any memory (Ecc 9:5) of course when it is in the grave(the unseen). B. Psalms 146:4 list where Spirit, Body and soul goes : "His breath [ruwach] goeth forth[returns to God], he[his body] returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts[connections in mind=soul] perish." C. In the pit (grave) you cannot praise, sing, or "hope for faithfulness"(you cannot hope to do anything in the grave) (Isa. 38:18; Ps 6:5; and 115:17 ) So at the 2nd ressurection of the dead after the Millennium, when everyone's soul will come out of the graves (the unseen), would you agree that the Lord will bring back the soul to its body and spirit of individuals together again, so these people will undergo the Judgment at the Great White throne? These are the texts we need to look carefully at.
Blessings
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Re: What will we take to heaven....??
[Re: Elle]
#182058
12/04/16 01:35 AM
12/04/16 01:35 AM
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While I personally disagree with your position on several points, I do find it intriguing, as I have not encountered this line of reasoning prior.
However, as all things must be proved by the Word, give me a little time to formulate a response.
And thanks for the challenge...
"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
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Re: What will we take to heaven....??
[Re: Rick H]
#182450
02/06/17 05:23 PM
02/06/17 05:23 PM
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These text only says what you cannot do while you are in the grave(the unseen). However what happens after the resurrection is another story and they will be able to do what they weren't able to do while being in the grave. None of these texts makes reference to our state after the resurrection nor is stating whether or not there is another opportunity.
Re 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ,
and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Re 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Re 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Re 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
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Re: What will we take to heaven....??
[Re: kland]
#182452
02/06/17 06:32 PM
02/06/17 06:32 PM
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Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019
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Posts: 2,536
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These text only says what you cannot do while you are in the grave(the unseen). However what happens after the resurrection is another story and they will be able to do what they weren't able to do while being in the grave. None of these texts makes reference to our state after the resurrection nor is stating whether or not there is another opportunity.
Re 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ,
and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Re 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Re 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Re 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Sorry, I still cannot read minds kland. Tell me what these texts says to you. Be explicite.
Blessings
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