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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #182763
03/14/17 01:22 AM
03/14/17 01:22 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
Because of the God's command to hold the winds of the four corners of the earth, the four angels were "bound" until the final command to "Loose the four angels". This command will come when 144,000 are completely sealed and then the close of probation emerges.

Just as Satan will be bound during the millennium by the circumstance of no one to tempt, the four angels are bound by the circumstance of the command of God that is to hold until the sealing is done. The river Euphrates denotes boundary at the end-time.

The sixth seal portrays Second Coming of Jesus. In the sixth church (Philadelphia), Jesus says, "Behold, I come quickly" (Rev. 3:11).

The sixth trumpets indicates the close of probation and those who will receive the punishment of fire, smoke, and brimstone. We find the three entities in the sixth plague: the dragon, the beast and the false prophets.

Basically, each of the sixth one in the four pillars of Revelation (seven churches, seals, trumpets, and plagues) speaks about Second Coming of Jesus. When we enlarge the seven trumpets message, we see the warned events are fast fulfilling around us now. We ought to recognize and be awaken to this final message of God's mercy.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #182854
03/21/17 11:45 AM
03/21/17 11:45 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
The trumpets and plagues of Revelation obviously parallel:
The first of each is devastation of the earth; the second the sea; the third, the rivers and springs of water; the fourth, heavenly bodies; the fifth, the beast; the sixth, the great river Euphrates (second coming of Jesus), and the seventh, it is done (kingdoms of this world becomes the kingdom of Christ).

The trumpets speak about partial judgment (a third), which is understandable for if not, no life can be sustainable in full destructions. EG White said, "trumpet after trumpet ... vial after vial" LDE 238.1

So the seven trumpets function as the announcement of the verdict judgment in Revelation; and the plague, as executive judgment. Would God let the world know what the verdict judgment entails?

Amos 3:7 says, "Surly the LORD GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets".

Are we willing to learn from the God's Word in a teachable spirit? The seven trumpets clearly tell us the judgment of God to be fallen upon mankind. If people do not find Jesus as Our Intercessor, they are doomed. Therefore, the introductory vision of the Seven Trumpets is about the absolute assurance of Jesus Christ in the mediatorial work in the Most Holy Place.

If we say, the obvious parallel between the trumpets and plagues irrelevant visions, then we are totally rejecting Christ's intercessory work. Satan hates the great truths that bring to view an atoning sacrifice and an all-powerful mediator.

The popular traditional interpretation of the trumpets is thought to be true in a historical account in the past, which was developed prior to 1844. There has not been a single more effective deception developed which turns the hearts of people away from the One True Sacrifice, instead, it infused thoughts in the mind of people that God is merciless and wrathful to those who against the church of God.

The popular historical interpretation prove to be flawed because it was built upon groundless supposition without a knowledge of Jesus' final ministry in the Most Holy Place.

The Seven Trumpets message is sevenfold warning for the coming crisis. If we are blind to the message of what is coming in the near future, no one can be prepared for the coming realities of calamity. Satan knows that the close of probation is almost here. He is endeavoring to prevent people from awakening to this truth. “Testimony to Ministers” says, “We (Satan and his evil angels) must watch those who are calling the attention of the people to the Sabbath of Jehovah … Hold the minds of the people in darkness till that work [the ministration of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary] is ended and we shall secure the world and the church also” (TM 472).

I urge you to reconsider the message of the Seven Trumpets! We do not have much time left.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #182907
03/24/17 02:50 PM
03/24/17 02:50 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
In the sixth trumpet, we see the punishment of fire, smoke and brimstone just as the third angel's message mentioned about it: those who receive the mark of the beast will be tormented by the fire, the brimstone and the smoke (Rev. 14:10,11).

The 200 million horsemen are the angelic army who follows the white horse rider, Jesus, in Rev. 19:11, 14.

When the beast and the false prophets will be taken, they were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone (Rev. 19:20). Taken by who? I think by the 200 million horsemen. Satan will be also thrown to the lake of fire and brimstone (Rev. 20:10). They all deserve the sixth plague because they gathered the whole world to make war with God Almighty (Rev. 16:13-14).

So it is clear that the sixth trumpet called the fire, the brimstone and the smoke as the plagues: "By these three was the third part of men killed ... And the rest of the men which were not killed by these PLAGUES yet repented not of the works of their hands." (emphasis added by me) Rev. 9:18,20.

These punishments follow by the close of probation, which the backdrop of the Seven Trumpets portrays. The sixth church and the seal also portray the second coming of Jesus, which happens at the close of probation.

The last sign of the end is mentioned in the sixth plague: the three unclean spirits gathering the whole world to come against God's people. We are aware of this Ecumenical movement which is going very strong right now. If this does not tell us that the time of the end is here, what can wake us up from our stupor?

Jesus says, "Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame" (Rev. 16:15). He gives us this warning right in the middle of the sixth plague message.

The purpose of the ecumenism is to destroy God's Sabbath and the Sabbath keepers. The Sabbath question is the last issue in the great final conflict in the world.

Quote:
"Some will urge that the Lord is not so particular in his requirements; that it is not their duty to keep he Sabbath strictly at so great loss, or to place themselves where they will be brought in conflict with the laws of the land. But here is just where the test is coming, whether we will honor the law of God above the requirements of men. This is what will distinguish between those who honor God and those who dishonor him. Here is where we are to prove our loyalty. The history of God's dealings with his people in all ages show that he demands exact obedience." HS 216.4

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #183076
04/02/17 07:11 PM
04/02/17 07:11 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
The Seven Angels of the Seven Trumpets stand before the throne of God to observe the judgment of God in heaven. When the judgment is over they prepare themselves to do another task, which is the command from God to pour the Seven Last Plagues (Rev. 16:1). In other words, the judgment of God is over so they prepare to do another task.

The Seven Angels are closely involved with close of probation; they were given the Seven Trumpets to blast for the warning of the close of probation; they watch the final ministration of Jesus before the altar until the end of the work; they pour out the Seven Last Plagues. We see they are involved from the beginning of the ministration of Jesus in the Most Holy Place, and during and to the end.

We find that the one of the Seven Angels is sent to John to show dangers approaching upon mankind (Rev. 17:1). And then another angel come down from heaven to cry "mightily with a strong voice" (Rev. 18:2). The passage of Revelation 18:2-3 is enlarged message of the second angel in Rev. 14:8. Hence I believe the three angels' message are delivered by these Seven Angels. The three angels' voice was loud and portrayed as flying in the midst of heaven (Rev. 14:6-7). We see parallel imagery in the middle of the Seven Trumpets message, which said "with a loud voice" and "flying through the midst of heaven" (Rev. 8:13).

One of the Seven Angels also came down to John to show the bride of the Lamb, the New Jerusalem (Rev. 21:9). The Seven Angels are very active in communication with God's people about the imminent event of the close of probation throughout the book of Revelation beginning from the vision of trumpet judgment in Chapter 8. Hence I see the Seven Angels are as the same angels who deliver the message of the three angels in Rev. 14. So who are commissioned to preach the three angels messages? God's people. That is a proof that the Seven Trumpets message has to be blast by God's people. The Seven Angels do not blow the seven trumpets but wait until the judgment of God finishes, then they prepare to sound their trumpets (Rev. 8:6). Thus we are commission to sound the Seven Angels' message that the close of probation is at hand.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #183271
04/12/17 02:36 PM
04/12/17 02:36 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
One of the Seven Angels told John that the whore sits on the seven-headed beast and makes the entire inhabitants to drink the wine of her fornication. (See Rev. 17:1-2, 7). Are these happening now?

Why the Seven Angels of Seven Trumpets sent to John to communicate the message?
Why not another kind of angel to deliver the message? Could it means that the delivered message has relevance to the Seven Trumpets judgment?

The angel of the Seven Trumpets said, "I will tell thee the mystery of the woman" (Rev. 17:7). So do we have an understanding what this whore is doing to the inhabitants of the earth?

The things of her fornication that are mentioned:
1)the earth wonders after her ("they that dwell on the earth shall wonder" Rev. 17:8 and "all the world wondered after the beast" Rev. 13:3).

2)She speaks blasphemy ("full of names of blasphemy" Rev. 17:3 and "speaking great things and blasphemies" Rev. 13:5).

3)She makes war with the saints ("these shall make war with the Lamb" Rev. 17:14 and "it was given unto him to make war with the saints" Rev. 13:7).

4)She makes the kings of the earth to commit fornication with her. The ten kings—ten horns of the seven-headed beast—support her a short time wishing to receive kingdom someday. ("the ten horns which thou safest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast" Rev. 17:12,13 and "he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him" Rev. 13;12).

5)She enforces her power to the entire earth-dwellers. ("the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space", "these have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast" Rev. 17:10,13 and "he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark" Rev. 13:16).

These points are the things the angel of the Seven Trumpets delivered, which tells me that the Seven Angels are concerned about the things to come upon all the earth. They know what the Seven Trumpets message is involved. The message is not about the history of mankind but things to come; the close of probation.

The things of Chapter 13 replays in Chapter 17. The Seven Trumpets message is given in Chapter 8 - 11, which I think the very first communication regarding the judgment of warning. Because the message has not been taken seriously, God sends over and over again for us to take heed.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #183345
04/18/17 03:33 AM
04/18/17 03:33 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: Karen Y
The last sign of the end is mentioned in the sixth plague: the three unclean spirits gathering the whole world to come against God's people. We are aware of this Ecumenical movement which is going very strong right now. If this does not tell us that the time of the end is here, what can wake us up from our stupor?

Jesus says, "Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame" (Rev. 16:15). He gives us this warning right in the middle of the sixth plague message.

The purpose of the ecumenism is to destroy God's Sabbath and the Sabbath keepers. The Sabbath question is the last issue in the great final conflict in the world.

Quote:
"Some will urge that the Lord is not so particular in his requirements; that it is not their duty to keep he Sabbath strictly at so great loss, or to place themselves where they will be brought in conflict with the laws of the land. But here is just where the test is coming, whether we will honor the law of God above the requirements of men. This is what will distinguish between those who honor God and those who dishonor him. Here is where we are to prove our loyalty. The history of God's dealings with his people in all ages show that he demands exact obedience." HS 216.4


THE SIXTH PLAGUE

  • Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared.
     
  • And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame."
     
  • And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.

**************

It's obvious that Babylon is about to fall. The sixth plague sets the stage for the seventh, when the city does fall: "Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath." (Rev. 16:19)

Returning to the sixth plague then, we see that the whole world is being gathered together against Babylon, and the whole world is being brought together by God Himself against the city. He says plainly, "Behold I am coming ..." over and above the armies of His wrath -- the kings of the earth and of the whole world urged on by those three unclean spirits.

>>> EVIDENTLY therefore "the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon" IS in Babylon.

What does this mean? Well, for sure, the sixth plague is NOT about a world-wide Catholic-led ecumenism against SDA. That is a gross misinterpretation of the prophecy and a blatant lie. Rather, it is about a God-led ruthless army coming against "the city of Babylon" to utterly overthrow it (see 7th plague). The question is -- where is that "city of Babylon, within which is the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon"?

///


Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: James Peterson] #183358
04/19/17 05:32 AM
04/19/17 05:32 AM
dedication  Offline
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Canada
Originally Posted By: James Peterson


THE SIXTH PLAGUE

  • Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared.
     
  • And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame."
     
  • And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.

**************

It's obvious that Babylon is about to fall. The sixth plague sets the stage for the seventh, when the city does fall: "Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath." (Rev. 16:19)

Returning to the sixth plague then, we see that the whole world is being gathered together against Babylon, and the whole world is being brought together by God Himself against the city. He says plainly, "Behold I am coming ..." over and above the armies of His wrath -- the kings of the earth and of the whole world urged on by those three unclean spirits.

>>> EVIDENTLY therefore "the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon" IS in Babylon.

What does this mean? Well, for sure, the sixth plague is NOT about a world-wide Catholic-led ecumenism against SDA. That is a gross misinterpretation of the prophecy and a blatant lie. Rather, it is about a God-led ruthless army coming against "the city of Babylon" to utterly overthrow it (see 7th plague). The question is -- where is that "city of Babylon, within which is the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon"?

///



There are several symbols that it seems you missed in the sixth plague.
And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle

First the great army gathered together are called together by the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. Spirits of demons control them as they gather together the nations into an army. This international army is not called by God at all, but by the enemy of God!

The dragon is Satan, the serpent (See Rev. 12:9) includes spiritualism.

The beast is a church hierarchy that ruled with political clout for 1260 years, had it's political clout destroyed, but receives it back again in the last days (as per Rev. 13).
It receives it's power and authority from the dragon.

The false prophet is also a powerful religious movement that is in close connection with the "beast". Also called the beast with lamb like horns. Basically Protestantism that prospered in America, but that has forsaken it's protestant roots.

That union IS called Babylon as depicted in Rev. 17.

So Babylon is calling on all nations to come together to wage war on WHO?

to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
"17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful. "



So , yes Babylon is about to fall in the sixth plague, but they will put up a massive fight first.

NOW WHO are the kings of the East?

Isn't it the One saying ""Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches" 16:5

No it is not the armies of the world -- not at all.

Matt. 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The kings of the east represent Christ's coming. He is the "Lamb"! He is coming with armies of heaven. (See Rev. 19)


"17:14 These (the earthly army) shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful. "


John in describing this plague is drawing comparisons from the ancient fall of Babylon to the Persians. At that time Cyrus diverted the river Euphrates, which enabled his army to enter Babylon by marching under the gates and the dry river bed. (The Euphrates originally flowed through the ancient city)

There is no city now with the Euphrates flowing under closed gates and through the city. So that account is symbolic of future events.

Who are the kings of the east?
Anciently it referred to Cyrus and his army of Medes and Persians.
Cyrus in scripture is symbolic of the Deliver. The one who comes to deliver God's people. (Isaiah 44:27-28, 45:1,2)

He was symbolic of the coming of Christ -- the ultimate Deliver of His people.

The beast and false prophet, speaking with the tongue of the dragon having decreed all who refuse to worship at the counterfeit shrine (as per Rev. 13:15) should be killed, denote this is a battle over worship.
Revelation also declares that those who worship at the beast's shrine will not have their names in the book of life! Rev.13:8

Who are God's people?
Revelation explains that as well.

14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Satan's fight against Christ results in his fighting against those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith and testimony of Jesus (see Rev. 12:17) When Jesus Himself was no longer on earth, satan turns his wrath against Christ's church (symbolized by the pure woman)

So yes, the last battle will be against those who stand with Christ in obedience and faith, and the whole false religious union with it's counterfeit worship, will be against them, but Christ will deliver them.

And yes, the Sabbath is the pivotal issue around which the battle will be fought. It is the commandment that is rejected, and replaced by a counterfeit. Whom do you serve and obey? The Creator God, or the man in the papal chair who thinks himself in the place of God here on earth, with the authority to change the law of God .

Daniel 12:1 there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Now when Christ steps in to deliver His people, those who sided with the beast and the false prophet will realize their deception. Yes, the battle will be turned around as the lost, who thought ridding the earth of non conformist worshippers would bring peace, now turn on each other in desperate anger. What a terrible time for those who rejected the call of the Savior and Sanctifier, and accepted the worship of the dragon and the beast and his image.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: dedication] #183359
04/19/17 07:28 AM
04/19/17 07:28 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: dedication
There are several symbols that it seems you missed in the sixth plague.
And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle

First the great army gathered together are called together by the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. Spirits of demons control them as they gather together the nations into an army. This international army is not called by God at all, but by the enemy of God!

The dragon is Satan, the serpent (See Rev. 12:9) includes spiritualism.

The beast is a church hierarchy that ruled with political clout for 1260 years, had it's political clout destroyed, but receives it back again in the last days (as per Rev. 13).
It receives it's power and authority from the dragon.

The false prophet is also a powerful religious movement that is in close connection with the "beast". Also called the beast with lamb like horns. Basically Protestantism that prospered in America, but that has forsaken it's protestant roots.

That union IS called Babylon as depicted in Rev. 17.

So Babylon is calling on all nations to come together to wage war on WHO?

to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
"17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful. "



So , yes Babylon is about to fall in the sixth plague, but they will put up a massive fight first.

NOW WHO are the kings of the East?

Isn't it the One saying ""Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches" 16:5

No it is not the armies of the world -- not at all.

Matt. 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The kings of the east represent Christ's coming. He is the "Lamb"! He is coming with armies of heaven. (See Rev. 19)


"17:14 These (the earthly army) shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful. "


John in describing this plague is drawing comparisons from the ancient fall of Babylon to the Persians. At that time Cyrus diverted the river Euphrates, which enabled his army to enter Babylon by marching under the gates and the dry river bed. (The Euphrates originally flowed through the ancient city)

There is no city now with the Euphrates flowing under closed gates and through the city. So that account is symbolic of future events.

Who are the kings of the east?
Anciently it referred to Cyrus and his army of Medes and Persians.
Cyrus in scripture is symbolic of the Deliver. The one who comes to deliver God's people. (Isaiah 44:27-28, 45:1,2)

He was symbolic of the coming of Christ -- the ultimate Deliver of His people.

The beast and false prophet, speaking with the tongue of the dragon having decreed all who refuse to worship at the counterfeit shrine (as per Rev. 13:15) should be killed, denote this is a battle over worship.
Revelation also declares that those who worship at the beast's shrine will not have their names in the book of life! Rev.13:8

Who are God's people?
Revelation explains that as well.

14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Satan's fight against Christ results in his fighting against those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith and testimony of Jesus (see Rev. 12:17) When Jesus Himself was no longer on earth, satan turns his wrath against Christ's church (symbolized by the pure woman)

So yes, the last battle will be against those who stand with Christ in obedience and faith, and the whole false religious union with it's counterfeit worship, will be against them, but Christ will deliver them.

And yes, the Sabbath is the pivotal issue around which the battle will be fought. It is the commandment that is rejected, and replaced by a counterfeit. Whom do you serve and obey? The Creator God, or the man in the papal chair who thinks himself in the place of God here on earth, with the authority to change the law of God .

Daniel 12:1 there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Now when Christ steps in to deliver His people, those who sided with the beast and the false prophet will realize their deception. Yes, the battle will be turned around as the lost, who thought ridding the earth of non conformist worshippers would bring peace, now turn on each other in desperate anger. What a terrible time for those who rejected the call of the Savior and Sanctifier, and accepted the worship of the dragon and the beast and his image.





In other words, Babylon is SDA. ok, if you say so.

///

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #183360
04/19/17 07:41 AM
04/19/17 07:41 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
///

THE SIXTH PLAGUE

  • Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared.
     
  • And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame."
     
  • And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.

**************

It's obvious that Babylon is about to fall. The sixth plague sets the stage for the seventh, when the city does fall: "Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath." (Rev. 16:19)

Returning to the sixth plague then, we see that the whole world is being gathered together against Babylon, and the whole world is being brought together by God Himself against the city. He says plainly, "Behold I am coming ..." over and above the armies of His wrath -- the kings of the earth and of the whole world urged on by those three unclean spirits.

>>> EVIDENTLY therefore "the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon" IS in Babylon.

What does this mean? Well, for sure, the sixth plague is NOT about a world-wide Catholic-led ecumenism against SDA. That is a gross misinterpretation of the prophecy and a blatant lie. Rather, it is about a God-led ruthless army coming against "the city of Babylon" to utterly overthrow it (see 7th plague). The question is -- where is that "city of Babylon, within which is the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon"?

****************

COMPARE JEREMIAH 25:8-10

Therefore thus says the LORD of hosts, Because you have not obeyed My words, 'behold, I will send and take all the families of the north,' declares the LORD, 'and I will send to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, My servant, and will bring them against this land and against its inhabitants and against all these nations round about; and I will utterly destroy them and make them a horror and a hissing, and an everlasting desolation. Moreover, I will take from them the voice of joy and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones and the light of the lamp ...'

Notice, God says "I will SEND ... and I will BRING ..." not only SEND, but also BRING. That is why it is written "Behold, I am COMING ..." WITH dragon, beast, kings and false prophet AGAINST Babylon to utterly overthrow it in the 6th and 7th plagues.

See Revelation 18. The question remains -- where is that "city of Babylon, within which is the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon"?

///

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: James Peterson] #183367
04/20/17 06:44 AM
04/20/17 06:44 AM
dedication  Offline
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Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Originally Posted By: dedication
There are several symbols that it seems you missed in the sixth plague.
And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle

First the great army gathered together are called together by the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. Spirits of demons control them as they gather together the nations into an army. This international army is not called by God at all, but by the enemy of God!

The dragon is Satan, the serpent (See Rev. 12:9) includes spiritualism.

The beast is a church hierarchy that ruled with political clout for 1260 years, had it's political clout destroyed, but receives it back again in the last days (as per Rev. 13).
It receives it's power and authority from the dragon.

The false prophet is also a powerful religious movement that is in close connection with the "beast". Also called the beast with lamb like horns. Basically Protestantism that prospered in America, but that has forsaken it's protestant roots.

That union IS called Babylon as depicted in Rev. 17.

So Babylon is calling on all nations to come together to wage war on WHO?

to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
"17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful. "



So , yes Babylon is about to fall in the sixth plague, but they will put up a massive fight first.

NOW WHO are the kings of the East?

Isn't it the One saying ""Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches" 16:5

No it is not the armies of the world -- not at all.

Matt. 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The kings of the east represent Christ's coming. He is the "Lamb"! He is coming with armies of heaven. (See Rev. 19)


"17:14 These (the earthly army) shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful. "


John in describing this plague is drawing comparisons from the ancient fall of Babylon to the Persians. At that time Cyrus diverted the river Euphrates, which enabled his army to enter Babylon by marching under the gates and the dry river bed. (The Euphrates originally flowed through the ancient city)

There is no city now with the Euphrates flowing under closed gates and through the city. So that account is symbolic of future events.

Who are the kings of the east?
Anciently it referred to Cyrus and his army of Medes and Persians.
Cyrus in scripture is symbolic of the Deliver. The one who comes to deliver God's people. (Isaiah 44:27-28, 45:1,2)

He was symbolic of the coming of Christ -- the ultimate Deliver of His people.

The beast and false prophet, speaking with the tongue of the dragon having decreed all who refuse to worship at the counterfeit shrine (as per Rev. 13:15) should be killed, denote this is a battle over worship.
Revelation also declares that those who worship at the beast's shrine will not have their names in the book of life! Rev.13:8

Who are God's people?
Revelation explains that as well.

14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Satan's fight against Christ results in his fighting against those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith and testimony of Jesus (see Rev. 12:17) When Jesus Himself was no longer on earth, satan turns his wrath against Christ's church (symbolized by the pure woman)

So yes, the last battle will be against those who stand with Christ in obedience and faith, and the whole false religious union with it's counterfeit worship, will be against them, but Christ will deliver them.

And yes, the Sabbath is the pivotal issue around which the battle will be fought. It is the commandment that is rejected, and replaced by a counterfeit. Whom do you serve and obey? The Creator God, or the man in the papal chair who thinks himself in the place of God here on earth, with the authority to change the law of God .

Daniel 12:1 there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Now when Christ steps in to deliver His people, while those who sided with the beast and the false prophet will realize their deception. Yes, the battle will be turned around as the lost, who thought ridding the earth of non conformist worshippers would bring peace, now turn on each other in desperate anger. What a terrible time for those who rejected the call of the Savior and Sanctifier, and accepted the worship of the dragon and the beast and his image.






In other words, Babylon is SDA. ok, if you say so.

///


No, that's not what I said at all.
How you came to that conclusion shows you either did not read, or you are being facetious.

SDA's would only be part of Babylon if they forsake the Sabbath, and join with the false worship system led by the papacy and the protestants who have rejected Protestantism and linked up with the papacy. And there probably will be a considerable number of SDA's who will "be shaken" and join up with the popular ecumenical movement.

God's people are they that with patient endurance keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus. (Rev. 14:12)

SDA's who hold fast to Christ, in full surrender to His will, to follow Him in faith and obedience to His commands will NOT be part of Babylon.
And yes there will be many who are not affiliated with Seventh-day Adventists who will, by the grace of Christ, keep all ten of the commandments and have that abiding faith in Christ. They will see through the ridicule and opposition heaped on those who refuse to honor the papal altered Christianity, and realize they need to fully surrender their lives to Christ in faith and obedience.


Babylon is not a "place" as such, it is a system, a spiritual condition. Of course all systems have places for headquarters, but Babylon is not primarily a place.

Go to Revelation 17, and there you see a woman riding a beast.
A woman in Bible prophecy represents Christ's church or "bride". (see Jer. 6:2, 2Cor. 11:2)
But this woman in Revelation 17 is a "whore" or harlot--
that is, she is unfaithful to her betrothed, she is unfaithful to Christ.
She is fornicating with the kings of the earth.
She is causing (enforcing through the power of her fornication with those kings) all nations to drink the wine of her false doctrines.

And her name is ----

Her name which is written on her fore head is:
Mystery Babylon the Great

The woman, Babylon, of Revelation 17, is described as “arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness.

This fully describes the colors worn by the hierarchy of the Roman church which held power over kings and princes for 1260 years.

Says the prophet John, “I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.” [Revelation 17:4-6.]
The history of the Roman church is full of blood of martyrs -- people killed by orders from the Roman church because they believed differently.

Babylon however is not alone -- she has "daughters". she is THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS

By her daughters we see symbolized the denominational churches that cling to her doctrines and traditions, and her false day of worship which she instituted in the place of God's Sabbath.
When these churches sacrifice truth, join hands with their "mother" and form unlawful alliances with the "kings"or governments in order to exert religious control over the people, they will have accomplished the same abominations as their mother.


Babylon is further declared to be “that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.” [Revelation 17:18.]

The Roman church had powerful influence over the kings in Europe during the 1260 years, in the last "battle" the "mother church" and her "daughters" will again have powerful influence over the kings of the world for a short time -- and Revelation 13 shows American military might will be used.

Revelation 13:12
He (America) causes the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast (to pay homage to the mother church-Roman Papacy), whose deadly wound (the papacy lost political power in 1798 ) was healed (the daughters, especially in America, join with mother to enable her to regain political power).

13:13 And he (America) doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast (notice America is doing this under the watching eye of the papacy, and for the papacy); and saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast (an image of the papacy, --they are to set up the same type of political/religious system the papacy enjoyed during the dark ages), which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
13:15 And he (American political power) had power (power to enforce) to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, (be able to command) and cause (enforce) that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.


And it is this power (beast, image or false prophet, and spiritualism or dragon) that go forth to bring all nations into one united force to wipe out all opposition to the one world worship they seek to implement.

And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle

That great army is BABYLON. They answer to the call of Babylon.

19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

This army isn't fighting against Babylon -- they are all citizens and servants OF Babylon setting out to wipe out all opposition to the worship of the beast and his image.

It is "the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle" Rev. 16:14

Remember Rev. 13 shows the beast and the "image" have passed a command that all who refuse the worship of the beast are to be killed. Now the armies of the earth, like the papal armies going out to destroy the Waldenses hundreds of years earlier, are gathered to wiped out God's faithful.

Are the ones faithful to God's commands to be destroyed -- No, at that point Christ says -- "I'm coming, hold on to your garment of righteousness I gave to you, don't let go. Don't let them see you in shame. Hold on. I'm coming!

What happens next?

16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake,

Interesting, God waits till they fully reveal their murderous intent, their total intolerance against the faithful.
In that sense we can say -- he gathered them, He waited till evil had shown it's true colors.

Armageddon -- is no one single place -- it is a time, a time when God speaks -- this is the end. "It is done. It is finished".
Rather than being restricted to one area, the battle of Armageddon will encompass the whole earth.—Jeremiah 25:32-34; Isaiah 28:22.


All nature joins in:
16:20And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, [every stone] about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Fev. 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come;


Matt. 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And the rest will be like those in Noah's day who were not in the ark. (Matt. 24




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