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Re: Healthy, Healthful Eggs for Health! [Re: Green Cochoa] #183163
04/07/17 10:34 PM
04/07/17 10:34 PM
APL  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: green
There's a lot of "may" in there, and not a single reference to a peer-reviewed study in support of its pseudo-facts.
Green - you did not address this false statement. Everything that Dr. Greger presents is from the peer review literature. I doubt would could come up with much of anything in the peer review literature to refute the facts he presents. Your claims about his facts are just that, claims without basis in fact.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Healthy, Healthful Eggs for Health! [Re: APL] #183164
04/07/17 11:06 PM
04/07/17 11:06 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
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Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: green
There's a lot of "may" in there, and not a single reference to a peer-reviewed study in support of its pseudo-facts.
Green - you did not address this false statement. Everything that Dr. Greger presents is from the peer review literature. I doubt would could come up with much of anything in the peer review literature to refute the facts he presents. Your claims about his facts are just that, claims without basis in fact.


Well, here's a journal article to refute the arsenic in eggs "fact": written by Daghir and Hariri in Journal of Agricultural Food Chemistry. They studied chickens fed a measured dosage of arsenic over a 15-week period. Here is the abstract and conclusions:
Quote:
ABSTRACT
Two levels (50 and 100 ppm) of 3-nitro-4-hydroxyphenylarsonic acid (3-nitro) were fed to different groups of White Leghorn layers for a period of 15 weeks. Arsenic residues in eggs laid by these hens were determined all through the experimental period at almost weekly intervals by a spectrophotometric method sensitive to 0.05 ppm. Contrary to the steadily increased drug intake during the experiment, residues in eggs did not show a continuous accumulation but rather an increase up to a certain level after which it gradually decreased. Arsenic residues determined 2 weeks after the withdrawal of the drug from the feed were negligible.

CONCLUSIONS
The results obtained clearly indicate that there is no continuous accumulation of arsenic residue in eggs, in spite of the length of the feeding period. The highest concentrations of residues were observed on weeks 4, 5,6 of feeding in both of the medicated groups, then the concentration gradually decreased. The highest amount of residue obtained was 0.240 ppm and the FDA allows up to 0.5 ppm arsenic residues in eggs. Samples analyzed 2 weeks after the withdrawal of the drug from the feed showed negligible residue amounts for both of the medicated groups.

Nuhad J. Daghir, Nour N. Hariri
J. Agric. Food Chem., 1977, 25 (5), pp 1009–1010
DOI: 10.1021/jf60213a044


It is noteworthy that the hens' arsenic output in the eggs was far less than the known input. Obviously, then, the hens must be eliminating arsenic in their wastes.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Healthy, Healthful Eggs for Health! [Re: kland] #183165
04/07/17 11:09 PM
04/07/17 11:09 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
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Joined: Apr 2008
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The Orient
Originally Posted By: kland
Green, how much sulfur do you need to flush out poisons?
How much specifically needed for arsenic from eating a mostly rice diet?


Kland, those are good questions. I do not have scientific studies that would firmly quantify the answers with something like dosages or milligrams. However, that the consumption of a high-sulfur diet helps to eliminate the arsenic I have seen first hand from returned lab reports comparing myself, a vegetarian, to another person subsisting on the same rice diet but with the addition of meat. Whereas my own levels of arsenic were found to be elevated, my co-worker's arsenic was in the normal range. Later, when that individual became vegetarian, the tests were redone and both of us had elevated arsenic.

NOTE: The vegetarian connection was only made after the second series of lab tests were done which showed this result. The tests served to confirm the degree of protection against arsenic which meat eaters may have.

Brown rice contains higher arsenic levels than white rice. The region in which the rice was grown will also make a significant difference in how much arsenic it contains. So no one rule could be made as to how much sulfur per how much rice in the diet.

From the research I have done, no higher sulfur-content food is available to a vegan than garlic. Garlic contains more sulfur than onions. However, ounce for ounce, an egg will have eight times as much sulfur as garlic; and who sits down to a bowl of mashed garlic anyhow?

Arsenicosis can produce thickened areas of skin, such as on the hands and feet, called keratosis. It can cause headache, weakened digestive system and/or stomach pain, and general fatigue. Acute arsenic poisoning can cause death, but chronic poisoning, such as through daily rice consumption, will produce symptoms more gradually as the levels build. I have experienced multiple of these symptoms, and still must stay on top of arsenic on a constant basis where I live. Especially the headache and stomach weakness bother me. Another, more specific, antidote to arsenic poisoning is selenium. I have had to import selenium supplements, as no pharmacy here has it. But sulfur is a more broad-spectrum antidote for toxins, and can also help to remove many other elemental and biological toxins.

I rather dislike eating eggs. More and more they seem to lack in quality. Nonetheless, the more I manage to consume, the better I feel overall. When I fail to eat them with sufficient quantities, I can feel my stomach weakening, and the tinge of headache that can set in. It's not a strong headache, at least not at first. But it will not go away, and can stay for weeks at a time. When my stomach weakens, I feel loath to eat rice. This causes me to switch to more "American" foods, like corn flakes, white bread (there's no such thing as whole wheat around here), or oats. But these all increase the cost of living for me substantially. In other words, my vegetarian diet truly is more expensive than the poor, meat-eater's diet of those around me. They could not afford to live as I do, even with simply milk and eggs in place of meat--truth be told.

I advise the locals to give up their pork, shrimp, snake, dog, mouse, or whatever else of an unclean nature entirely, and then to cut down substantially on fish. Most go and buy the biggest fish they can at the market--little knowing that it has the highest concentration of toxins. I teach them that if they eat fish, they should eat the smallest ones. They are not ready to give up meat entirely yet here. The local economy and the foods available at the market simply leave them with few options. The change must be gradual, one step at a time. The first step is to cut out the unclean.

While they begin to remove meat from their diet, I advise them to use eggs as its replacement--just as Mrs. White says.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Healthy, Healthful Eggs for Health! [Re: Green Cochoa] #183168
04/08/17 04:37 AM
04/08/17 04:37 AM
APL  Offline
SDA
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5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Green, you said quote, " and not a single reference to a peer-reviewed study in support of its pseudo-facts." Do you still claim this as truth? You offered a (single) journal article, but was this against anything Dr. Greger said? If so, what? Again, I think you have no specific facts against NutritionFacts.org and in truth, your claim is patently false that there is "not a single reference to a peer reviewed study." Your hole is deep enough, stop digging!


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Healthy, Healthful Eggs for Health! [Re: APL] #183169
04/08/17 07:21 AM
04/08/17 07:21 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: APL
Green, you said quote, " and not a single reference to a peer-reviewed study in support of its pseudo-facts." Do you still claim this as truth? You offered a (single) journal article, but was this against anything Dr. Greger said? If so, what? Again, I think you have no specific facts against NutritionFacts.org and in truth, your claim is patently false that there is "not a single reference to a peer reviewed study." Your hole is deep enough, stop digging!


APL,

You really should check on your B12 levels. Note that blood tests for B12 can be inaccurate--did you see the link about that in the article from VeganHealth.org that I posted earlier? Anyhow, you seem to have forgotten what you posted from Dr. Greger. In what you posted, no references were made to supporting materials.

For now, I'm addressing one solitary pseudo-fact of his: the arsenic. Would you like to find where Dr. Greger specifies how much arsenic is in eggs? It's really not much of a "fact" with such a general statement as you quoted here. The article I found actually quantifies the amount of arsenic that a chicken will pass through to its egg when given arsenic in its feed. Dr. Greger gave no facts about this. In fact, I think I can safely say there is arsenic in the vegetables you eat too. Should you then avoid them as a consequence? (If you wonder about it, research the arsenic connection with Brussel's sprouts, cabbage, broccoli, etc.)

Will you support Dr. Greger in opposition to Mrs. White? I'll follow the messages from God given through the latter. You are free to follow whomever you wish. smile


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Healthy, Healthful Eggs for Health! [Re: Green Cochoa] #183177
04/08/17 09:49 PM
04/08/17 09:49 PM
T
The Wanderer  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
Green, my hair is still curling over your comments about people eating mice and snakes...

Last edited by The Wanderer; 04/08/17 09:50 PM.

"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: Healthy, Healthful Eggs for Health! [Re: Green Cochoa] #183179
04/08/17 09:53 PM
04/08/17 09:53 PM
T
The Wanderer  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa

Will you support Dr. Greger in opposition to Mrs. White? I'll follow the messages from God given through the latter. You are free to follow whomever you wish. smile
Would you happen to know where EGW wrote something about eating the best we can for whatever geographical area we are living in? I recall once reading it but have not yet found it.


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: Healthy, Healthful Eggs for Health! [Re: The Wanderer] #183180
04/08/17 10:25 PM
04/08/17 10:25 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa

Will you support Dr. Greger in opposition to Mrs. White? I'll follow the messages from God given through the latter. You are free to follow whomever you wish. smile
Would you happen to know where EGW wrote something about eating the best we can for whatever geographical area we are living in? I recall once reading it but have not yet found it.


Perhaps it is this one.

Originally Posted By: Ellen White
The Lord has instructed me to say that He has not confined to a few persons all the light there is to be received in regard to the best preparations of health foods. He will give to many minds in different places tact and skill that will enable them to prepare health foods suitable for the countries in which they live. {7T 128.1}

God is the author of all wisdom, all intelligence, all talent. He will magnify His name by giving to many minds wisdom in the preparation of health foods. And when He does this, the making of these new foods is not to be looked upon as an infringement of the rights of those who are already manufacturing health foods, although in some respects the foods made by the different ones may be similar. God will take ordinary men and will give them skill and understanding in the use of the fruit of the earth. He deals impartially with His workers. Not one is forgotten by Him. He will impress businessmen who are Sabbathkeepers to establish industries that will provide employment for His people. He will teach His servants to prepare less expensive health foods which can be bought by the poor. {7T 128.2}

In all our plans we should remember that the health food work is the property of God and that it is not to be made a financial speculation for personal gain. It is God's gift to His people, and the profits are to be used for the good of suffering humanity everywhere. {7T 128.3}

Especially in the Southern States of North America many things will be devised and many facilities provided, that the poor and needy can sustain themselves by the health food industries. Under teachers who are laboring for the salvation of their souls, they will be taught how to cultivate and prepare for food those things that grow most readily in their locality. {7T 128.4}


If this is not the one you are looking for, I would suggest "locality" as a good search term, in combination with other term(s) relative to the diet.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Healthy, Healthful Eggs for Health! [Re: The Wanderer] #183181
04/08/17 10:44 PM
04/08/17 10:44 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
Green, my hair is still curling over your comments about people eating mice and snakes...


Where I live, people eat most anything that moves. I was not even facetious in that statement. I truly do teach the locals here not to eat those things. In fact, in place of "mice" I probably should have said "rats." The local word for them lumps them both together, and perhaps the locals eat both, but I am sure they prefer the larger end of the spectrum. I have passed signs that advertised "genuine field mice/rats" for sale--people prefer the "natural" ones. When I saw rats for sale at the local food market, it turned my stomach. But then to hear of people making owl soup, or even seeing Adventists here eating ants' eggs--do they not know that these are unclean?

Quail eggs, chicken eggs, duck eggs, ants' eggs (usually of the red fire ant variety)--these are some of the "egg" products locals consume regularly. Only the first two in the list would I recommend. I understand the latter two to be unclean. Ants eat anything--even filthy carcases of animals!

Come to think of it, maybe I should have said "chicken" eggs in the title here! (Though quail eggs are fine, too.)


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Healthy, Healthful Eggs for Health! [Re: Green Cochoa] #183184
04/08/17 11:00 PM
04/08/17 11:00 PM
T
The Wanderer  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
Wow. I am surprised that people eat that stuff and do not realize how bad it is. It really makes me cringe just to think of it.

Thanks for those references. They are good ones - on the right track. I think there is another one I was originally hoping to find. When I discover it I will post it here.


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
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