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"Easter" Questions #183308
04/16/17 09:42 PM
04/16/17 09:42 PM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
OK. Please don't criticize until you read the whole post here. Today, I read the current pope's Easter message. I thought it was quite good, as far as it went. In part, this is what he said:

Quote:
“Jesus has risen from the dead,” Francis said. “And this is not a fantasy. It’s not a celebration with many flowers [pointing at the arrangements surrounding him]. This is beautiful, but [the resurrection] is more.”


Quote:
“It is the mystery of the thrown-away stone, that ends up being the cornerstone of our existence. Christ has risen from the dead. In this throwaway culture, where that which is not useful takes the path of the use-and-throw, where that which is not useful is discarded, that stone that was discarded is the fountain of life,”


(https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2017/04/16/resurrection-not-fantasy-pope-francis-insists-easter-sunday/)

So to be clear, i am in no way criticizing what the pope said. I actually think it was quite nicely done.

The topic of the resurrection seems to come into most prominence and recognition around this time of year. But I must confess it is only because of my birthday being this time of year, that I recall this amazing theme from the Bible.

It did get me to thinking about something though. I always enjoy any focus on the resurrection, but most years, I am left wondering why so much focus on the resurrection, with so little focus on the crucifixion, or the life of our Lord?

I think of a verse that helps me to sum up my many questions:

Quote:
"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;" (Phil 3:10)

Years ago, I was holding the hand of an elderly gentleman as he was dying, and something made me pick up his Bible with one hand and just start to leaf casually through it. The first thing that caught my eye was this text, scrawled in his hand writing. I turned to this man who was dying and told him what I saw, and he gripped my hand tight, smiled, and died.

I will never forget this text, and this text leads to my summary of all my other questions. World leaders and pastors everywhere, if they do celebrate Easter, usually focus on the resurrection. But this text mentions two things:

1) "the power of His resurrection..."
2) "the fellowship of His sufferings..."

Which of these two should we focus on more and why? What should each of these two phrases should manifest most in our daily life, and how should that look to the outside world?


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183310
04/17/17 04:16 AM
04/17/17 04:16 AM
dedication  Offline
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Which should be our focus?

Both!

Without the suffering and the cross, their would be no "power of resurrection".
Without the resurrection Christ's death on the cross would be in vain for death would still be the end.


Applying the events to us -- as Romans 6 does.
We too, through Christ, must suffer death to sin, that we might rise to newness of life in Him.

Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183312
04/17/17 05:12 AM
04/17/17 05:12 AM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
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Yes! I certainly agree with what you wrote dedication. I found this quote which seems to illustrate further:

The disciples of Christ, as Jews, had been educated to hate the Samaritans, and this was a lesson that would be of great benefit to them in their future experience. Jesus would have them understand that there were many precious souls among the Samaritans who would not refuse to come to the Gospel feast. This Samaritan that had returned to give praise to God was no mean citizen, and he would prove an effective witness for Christ. After the resurrection and ascension of Christ, he would bear decided witness that Christ was the Son of God. He would repeat the story of his restoration, and with a heart full of intense love and interest, he would say to those with whom he came in contact, "Will you believe in Jesus?" It was testimonies of this kind that turned men from the established teachings and endless repetitions and worthless traditions of the scribes and Pharisees. Unlearned men testified to the power of Christ, and spoke boldly of the grace of God, and their glowing testimonies were placed in sharp contrast to the heartless, exacting ritual of the Pharisees. And the people were constrained to say that these men had been with Jesus, and had learned of him.
{ST, June 25, 1896 par. 6}


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183313
04/17/17 05:13 AM
04/17/17 05:13 AM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
I find it very interesting how the word "constrained" was used in the above quote. smile


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183325
04/17/17 11:02 AM
04/17/17 11:02 AM
E
Elle  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
A very nice reflection! Tx for the opportunity for us to indulge also.

The first thing that came to mind is no life-resurrection can happen without first having the death & burial of the seed. The old is passed away and the new is present & today.

Death comes first and Paul tells us that it is our "old man" that needs to die and is crucified with Christ at the cross (Rom6:6; Eph 4:22; Col 3:9). And that Death needs to be destroyed(1Cor 15:26)...right?

Originally Posted By: The Wonderer
It did get me to thinking about something though. I always enjoy any focus on the resurrection, but most years, I am left wondering why so much focus on the resurrection, with so little focus on the crucifixion, or the life of our Lord?

I think of a verse that helps me to sum up my many questions:

Quote:
"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;" (Phil 3:10)

I do understand why you have this question as in our church we are taught to focus on Christ death rather than His resurrection while some other denomination like to focus on His resurrection. I think both focus can be wrong if God's truth is not well presented.

But I do think that the resurrection is more important than the death for 3 reasons.

For sure we are to meditate on Christ life & death as it illuminates the path to the cross that we also all have to undergo. However, I don't think that His death is the central point of God's gospel;but rather it is His resurrection. If there's no resurrection, then what's the point of Him[us] dying. right?

Point One: It is the hope of the resurrection that makes the long undesired [spiritual]death of the "old man" process bearable. Ro 8:18 "For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us."

We are still all following that "death" process-path that Jesus showed us that ultimately leads to the cross.

No one of us has experienced Christ full resurrection yet.

However, we all have undergone and tasted small "resurrection" experiences as we go thru the 3 veils(==tearing of the flesh - Heb 10:20) and we enter the 3 compartments of the sanctuary service. These depicts the 3 phases of our spiritual growth : Passover(baby-congregation : circumcision & baptism); Pentecost(adolescent-Levites: hearing God's voice and learning His laws-will); Tabernacle(Sons-Priests: enter our calling and we only do what we see the Father do, and only say what we hear our Father say).

Each of these veils represents a [spiritual] death that we all have to undergo. And on the other side of these veils is a "small" resurrection as we enter the new life stage that is found inside each compartment of the sanctuary.

Point Two: I think once we experience a [spiritual] death as "the tearing of our flesh"(==our carnality) happens as we pass thru a veil, is we leave that old sheded dead skin (of our immature babyhood or foolish adolescent behavior) behind and we focus on the new life that is found on the other side of the 3 veils.

As a comparison, What does a woman with child remember most? the pain of the childbirth or the birth & the new life of the born child?


Blessings
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: Elle] #183371
04/20/17 09:38 PM
04/20/17 09:38 PM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
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Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
Originally Posted By: Elle
A very nice reflection! Tx for the opportunity for us to indulge also.

The first thing that came to mind is no life-resurrection can happen without first having the death & burial of the seed. The old is passed away and the new is present & today.

Death comes first and Paul tells us that it is our "old man" that needs to die and is crucified with Christ at the cross (Rom6:6; Eph 4:22; Col 3:9). And that Death needs to be destroyed(1Cor 15:26)...right?

[quote=The Wonderer]It did get me to thinking about something though. I always enjoy any focus on the resurrection, but most years, I am left wondering why so much focus on the resurrection, with so little focus on the crucifixion, or the life of our Lord?

I think of a verse that helps me to sum up my many questions:

Quote:
Quote:
"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;" (Phil 3:10)

No one of us has experienced Christ full resurrection yet.
I agree, our experience falls short, because of the humanity factor. I have sometimes wondered what place, texts like Gal 6:14 would have in telling people "The Easter Story?"

Long ago, I memorized a quote from EGW regarding "the cross:" and it goes like this:

Quote:
"There is only One central truth around which all other truths cluster...Christ and Him crucified. All other truths are invested with power and influence according to their relation to this theme."
It can be found in several places in her writings. I am currently contemplating how to apply this principle to "Easter."


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183374
04/20/17 10:43 PM
04/20/17 10:43 PM
APL  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
How about applying it to the "Passover" story instead, and the Feast of Unleavened Bread instead of "Easter?" Christians celebrate "Good Friday" and "Easter" as if these DAYS are important (Friday and Sunday) when the truth is that it is Passover, the Sabbaths (of the feasts), and Wave Sheaf that are the true symbols, and they could happen on any day of the week in the Jewish economy. If one's thrust is to promote a false Sabbath (7th-day), then lets push Easter Sunday, and ignore the whole meaning of the Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread! The last thing the Christian world is seeking is to remove the Leaven, which is the central theme to Christ and Him crucified.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: APL] #183375
04/20/17 10:57 PM
04/20/17 10:57 PM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
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Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
Originally Posted By: APL
If one's thrust is to promote a false Sabbath (7th-day), then lets push Easter Sunday, and ignore the whole meaning of the Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread!
I don't think that the typical "Easter Sunday" has any functions that would promote a false Sabbath. That does not seem to fit with my OP either. But if you have some clear documentation about this, it would be worth looking at. How does "Easter Sunday" promote a "false Sabbath?" smile


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183378
04/21/17 01:32 AM
04/21/17 01:32 AM
APL  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
"Easter Sunday" is already a false idea. In the type, Christ was raised on the day of First Fruits, which could have been on any day of the week. Yes Christians promote a false idea that Sunday replaces Sabbath because it is the day the Christ was resurrected. Easter is rarely if ever "celebrated" on the real day according to the Passover Feast type.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183379
04/21/17 02:16 AM
04/21/17 02:16 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
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Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
OK. Please don't criticize until you read the whole post here. Today, I read the current pope's Easter message. I thought it was quite good, as far as it went. In part, this is what he said:

Quote:
“Jesus has risen from the dead,” Francis said. “And this is not a fantasy. It’s not a celebration with many flowers [pointing at the arrangements surrounding him]. This is beautiful, but [the resurrection] is more.”


Quote:
“It is the mystery of the thrown-away stone, that ends up being the cornerstone of our existence. Christ has risen from the dead. In this throwaway culture, where that which is not useful takes the path of the use-and-throw, where that which is not useful is discarded, that stone that was discarded is the fountain of life,”


(https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2017/04/16/resurrection-not-fantasy-pope-francis-insists-easter-sunday/)

So to be clear, i am in no way criticizing what the pope said. I actually think it was quite nicely done.

The topic of the resurrection seems to come into most prominence and recognition around this time of year. But I must confess it is only because of my birthday being this time of year, that I recall this amazing theme from the Bible.

It did get me to thinking about something though. I always enjoy any focus on the resurrection, but most years, I am left wondering why so much focus on the resurrection, with so little focus on the crucifixion, or the life of our Lord?

I think of a verse that helps me to sum up my many questions:

Quote:
"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;" (Phil 3:10)

Years ago, I was holding the hand of an elderly gentleman as he was dying, and something made me pick up his Bible with one hand and just start to leaf casually through it. The first thing that caught my eye was this text, scrawled in his hand writing. I turned to this man who was dying and told him what I saw, and he gripped my hand tight, smiled, and died.

I will never forget this text, and this text leads to my summary of all my other questions. World leaders and pastors everywhere, if they do celebrate Easter, usually focus on the resurrection. But this text mentions two things:

1) "the power of His resurrection..."
2) "the fellowship of His sufferings..."

Which of these two should we focus on more and why? What should each of these two phrases should manifest most in our daily life, and how should that look to the outside world?


We seem to give such consideration to the Papacy. I never trust what they say anymore. I don't trust their words , even though they sound good and right, to have the correct meaning in their hearts. The Papacy that is.

Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: Alchemy] #183384
04/21/17 06:04 AM
04/21/17 06:04 AM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
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Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
We seem to give such consideration to the Papacy. I never trust what they say anymore. I don't trust their words , even though they sound good and right, to have the correct meaning in their hearts. The Papacy that is.
Thank you. I understand that you are portraying a distrust of what the Pope/Papacy says to the general public. In some ways, this is understandable, but I would suggest similar things are also experienced with leaders of other churches as well. But that aside, I did like what the current Pope said in the quote I provided for the OP. Not everything he/they say or do is wrong. I feel that Francis made some very good points that we could build on while talking to Catholics, or any other denominations or individuals who follow the Catholic Church in some way. smile

Quote:
“Jesus has risen from the dead,” Francis said. “And this is not a fantasy. It’s not a celebration with many flowers [pointing at the arrangements surrounding him]. This is beautiful, but [the resurrection] is more.”

“It is the mystery of the thrown-away stone, that ends up being the cornerstone of our existence. Christ has risen from the dead. In this throwaway culture, where that which is not useful takes the path of the use-and-throw, where that which is not useful is discarded, that stone that was discarded is the fountain of life,”

Last edited by The Wanderer; 04/21/17 06:06 AM. Reason: added quote for clarification

"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183395
04/21/17 03:14 PM
04/21/17 03:14 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Posts: 6,416
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Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
Originally Posted By: APL
If one's thrust is to promote a false Sabbath (7th-day), then lets push Easter Sunday, and ignore the whole meaning of the Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread!
I don't think that the typical "Easter Sunday" has any functions that would promote a false Sabbath. That does not seem to fit with my OP either. But if you have some clear documentation about this, it would be worth looking at. How does "Easter Sunday" promote a "false Sabbath?" smile
Read the Great Controversy regarding the history of how the false Sabbath came about. It has everything to do with Easter Sunday. It's whole premise.

Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: kland] #183409
04/22/17 06:40 AM
04/22/17 06:40 AM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
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Posts: 545
Central Alberta
Originally Posted By: kland
How does "Easter Sunday" promote a "false Sabbath?" smile

Read the Great Controversy regarding the history of how the false Sabbath came about. It has everything to do with Easter Sunday. It's whole premise.
I was talking about the idea of one day out of the year: "EASTER SUNDAY," not all of the weekly Sundays, which I believe is what you & the GC is referring to. At any rate, this is a very minor point to what I had started in the OP Happy Sabbath to you! smile


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183416
04/23/17 01:09 AM
04/23/17 01:09 AM
dedication  Offline
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Kland has a very valid point.

Sunday worship coming into the early church has a lot to do with the introduction of the Friday to Sunday yearly festival replacing the Biblical dates for the Passover.


We read in the ancient writings (Especially the historical accounts written by Eusebius in which he quotes extensively from both sides of the controversy) how Christians in the east honored Christ's death on Nisan 14th, while Christians in the west were beginning to celebrate it always on a Friday to Sunday.

As we read in "Sabbath to Sunday" by Andrews and Conradi
" As type met antitype, early Christianity, composed at first chiefly of Israelites, would voluntarily continue these festival, but in commemoration of facts accomplished, as the death of the Lord, his resurrection, and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. They would therein naturally follow the Jewish method of computation. The Passover lamb was to be eaten on the fourteenth of Nisan, without reference to the day of the week on which it fell; then followed the seven days of unleavened bread.

"A number of the churches in the East, appealing to apostolic example, fasted until the close of the fourteenth, and celebrated the Passover at the beginning of the fifteenth, by having the communion and the love feast; but in some parts of the West, especially in the Roman Church, celebrated the death of Jesus on a Friday, and his resurrection always on a Sunday after the March full moon, fasting till Sunday and celebrating the communion on that day. Thus it happened that one part of Christianity was fasting and mourning over the death of Christ, while the other part was already rejoicing over his accomplished resurrection.
This difference had already been discussed when the martyr bishop Polycarp of Smyrna visited Ancietus, bishop of Rome, around 133 A.D. But although they could not agree, they parted in peace, as far as Eusebiuss’ statement goes.

"But some forty years later the Roman bishop Victor, thinking that he, being bishop of the capital of the Roman empire, had therefore the right to dictate to the other bishops, in an imperious tone required the churches in the East to abandon their practise, and follow the example of Rome. An Eastern synod considered his letter, and Polycrates, bishop of Ephesus, in his answer to Victor, appealing to the example of Philip, of John, of Polycarp, and of other ancient bishops, winds up: “All these observed the fourteenth day of the Passover according to the gospel, deviating in no respect, but following the rule of faith”. 40

Victor turned a deaf ear to this remonstrance,-- though it surely had apostolic tradition in its favor, if there be such a thing, -- branded the Eastern churches as heretical, and threatened to excommunicate them. Thus the first instance on record in which the bishop of Rome attempted to be the Pope over all the churches, was by an edict in behalf of Sunday. Bower calls this “the first essay of papal usurpation;” 41 And Dowling, “the earliest instance of papal assumption.”42

Victor did not succeed in enforcing Sunday Easter as numerous bishops opposed him.

"The question relating to the observance of Easter [Passover], which was agitated in the time of Anicetus and Polycarp, and afterwards in that of Victor, was still undecided (in the days of Constantine). It was one of the principal reasons for convoking the council of Nicea, being the most important subject to be considered after the Arian controversy. It appears that the churches of Syria and Mesopotamia continued to follow the custom of the Jews, and celebrated Easter on the fourteenth day of the moon, whether falling on Sunday or not. A Historical View of the Council of Nice, p. 22, translated by Isaac Boyle, D.D. New York: Thomas N. Staintford, 637 Broadway, 1856.

The result of that council was an edict that everyone should honor the Friday to Sunday celebration--
The main reason? To avoid any connection with Jewish practices -- as was stated by the letter sent out.

"It appeared an unworthy thing that in the celebration of
this most holy feast we should follow the practice of the
Jews, who have impiously defiled their hands with enormous
sin,"

"The edict was declared far and wide that Christ's death and resurrection was to be consistently and unitedly celebrated upon the first Sunday after the full moon that follows the vernal equinox to place it in a general proximity to the Jewish Passover and yet remain separate.

CONNECTION WITH THE SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REJECTION

That connection is based on the fact that Sunday keeping is in reality defended as a weekly celebration in honor of Christ's resurrection. The abandoning of the Sabbath and the adoption of the commemoration of the resurrection on Sunday was based on the same arguments, both as a weekly and a yearly
feast.

1. Distance themselves from the Jews
2. Fasting -- not only on the Friday/Saturday, before easter Sunday, but on every 7th day Sabbath to "mourn" Christ's death, and then rejoice every Sunday in honor of the resurrection.
3. Sunday keeping is regarded as the weekly "resurrection day".

The fast tended to strike a deathblow to the Sabbath by placing it in utter disrespect as a day of sadness and gloom rather than of Christian joy.

Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: dedication] #183420
04/23/17 05:45 AM
04/23/17 05:45 AM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
Originally Posted By: dedication
Kland has a very valid point.

It takes some very loose connections and very stretched points to connect Easter to the false sabbath; and at any rate, nothing like this was or is the point of the OP I was hoping for something more substantial as in discussion about the cross, the resurrection, and how these grand themes should play out in our daily lives, and personal practices. I guess this is likely a good place to state that for most of us, these themes do not have a major impact in our daily life. The closest most people get is the Easter Bunny, chocolate eggs, or conspiracy themes involving the papacy.

When I read that text from Philippians in that old man's Bible, it meant something much deeper to me than what is being presented. To "know the power of His resurrection" and "the fellowship of His sufferings," should be the answer to all "Easter Questions." smile


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: dedication] #183422
04/23/17 08:50 AM
04/23/17 08:50 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
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Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: dedication
Kland has a very valid point.

Sunday worship coming into the early church has a lot to do with the introduction of the Friday to Sunday yearly festival replacing the Biblical dates for the Passover.


We read in the ancient writings (Especially the historical accounts written by Eusebius in which he quotes extensively from both sides of the controversy) how Christians in the east honored Christ's death on Nisan 14th, while Christians in the west were beginning to celebrate it always on a Friday to Sunday.

As we read in "Sabbath to Sunday" by Andrews and Conradi
" As type met antitype, early Christianity, composed at first chiefly of Israelites, would voluntarily continue these festival, but in commemoration of facts accomplished, as the death of the Lord, his resurrection, and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. They would therein naturally follow the Jewish method of computation. The Passover lamb was to be eaten on the fourteenth of Nisan, without reference to the day of the week on which it fell; then followed the seven days of unleavened bread.

"A number of the churches in the East, appealing to apostolic example, fasted until the close of the fourteenth, and celebrated the Passover at the beginning of the fifteenth, by having the communion and the love feast; but in some parts of the West, especially in the Roman Church, celebrated the death of Jesus on a Friday, and his resurrection always on a Sunday after the March full moon, fasting till Sunday and celebrating the communion on that day. Thus it happened that one part of Christianity was fasting and mourning over the death of Christ, while the other part was already rejoicing over his accomplished resurrection.
This difference had already been discussed when the martyr bishop Polycarp of Smyrna visited Ancietus, bishop of Rome, around 133 A.D. But although they could not agree, they parted in peace, as far as Eusebiuss’ statement goes.

"But some forty years later the Roman bishop Victor, thinking that he, being bishop of the capital of the Roman empire, had therefore the right to dictate to the other bishops, in an imperious tone required the churches in the East to abandon their practise, and follow the example of Rome. An Eastern synod considered his letter, and Polycrates, bishop of Ephesus, in his answer to Victor, appealing to the example of Philip, of John, of Polycarp, and of other ancient bishops, winds up: “All these observed the fourteenth day of the Passover according to the gospel, deviating in no respect, but following the rule of faith”. 40

Victor turned a deaf ear to this remonstrance,-- though it surely had apostolic tradition in its favor, if there be such a thing, -- branded the Eastern churches as heretical, and threatened to excommunicate them. Thus the first instance on record in which the bishop of Rome attempted to be the Pope over all the churches, was by an edict in behalf of Sunday. Bower calls this “the first essay of papal usurpation;” 41 And Dowling, “the earliest instance of papal assumption.”42

Victor did not succeed in enforcing Sunday Easter as numerous bishops opposed him.

"The question relating to the observance of Easter [Passover], which was agitated in the time of Anicetus and Polycarp, and afterwards in that of Victor, was still undecided (in the days of Constantine). It was one of the principal reasons for convoking the council of Nicea, being the most important subject to be considered after the Arian controversy. It appears that the churches of Syria and Mesopotamia continued to follow the custom of the Jews, and celebrated Easter on the fourteenth day of the moon, whether falling on Sunday or not. A Historical View of the Council of Nice, p. 22, translated by Isaac Boyle, D.D. New York: Thomas N. Staintford, 637 Broadway, 1856.

The result of that council was an edict that everyone should honor the Friday to Sunday celebration--
The main reason? To avoid any connection with Jewish practices -- as was stated by the letter sent out.

"It appeared an unworthy thing that in the celebration of
this most holy feast we should follow the practice of the
Jews, who have impiously defiled their hands with enormous
sin,"

"The edict was declared far and wide that Christ's death and resurrection was to be consistently and unitedly celebrated upon the first Sunday after the full moon that follows the vernal equinox to place it in a general proximity to the Jewish Passover and yet remain separate.

CONNECTION WITH THE SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REJECTION

That connection is based on the fact that Sunday keeping is in reality defended as a weekly celebration in honor of Christ's resurrection. The abandoning of the Sabbath and the adoption of the commemoration of the resurrection on Sunday was based on the same arguments, both as a weekly and a yearly
feast.

1. Distance themselves from the Jews
2. Fasting -- not only on the Friday/Saturday, before easter Sunday, but on every 7th day Sabbath to "mourn" Christ's death, and then rejoice every Sunday in honor of the resurrection.
3. Sunday keeping is regarded as the weekly "resurrection day".

The fast tended to strike a deathblow to the Sabbath by placing it in utter disrespect as a day of sadness and gloom rather than of Christian joy.


Excellent and powerful post dedication.

I did not know about Pope Victor in 133 AD.

Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183425
04/23/17 12:01 PM
04/23/17 12:01 PM
E
Elle  Offline
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Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
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Canada
Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
Originally Posted By: dedication
Kland has a very valid point.

It takes some very loose connections and very stretched points to connect Easter to the false sabbath; and at any rate, nothing like this was or is the point of the OP I was hoping for something more substantial as in discussion about the cross, the resurrection, and how these grand themes should play out in our daily lives, and personal practices. I guess this is likely a good place to state that for most of us, these themes do not have a major impact in our daily life. The closest most people get is the Easter Bunny, chocolate eggs, or conspiracy themes involving the papacy.

When I read that text from Philippians in that old man's Bible, it meant something much deeper to me than what is being presented. To "know the power of His resurrection" and "the fellowship of His sufferings," should be the answer to all "Easter Questions." smile

I'm glad that your focus is to get down to the real good meat of things. I had worked on a reply to you some days ago, but I lost it all just before posting it. Probably, the Lord wanted me to reflect on it some more.

Interestingly, I had a recent "death" and "resurrection" experience in Jan 2017. It was quite intense and not pleasant at all (well the death part was brutal)... On the surface, I was battling with an advance case of cancer [I refused the standard treatment of chemo or surgery] that wasn't showing any signs of improvements despite all I had changed & done for 8 months. This led me to my "death" & after a "resurrection" type of experience. Only 2 months after that I saw the first tiny signs of cancer regression.

So your Easter question is quite personal & also important for me to be able to reflect on it more deeply and hoping that the Lord will shed light & understanding more on this topic and those scriptures like Gal 6:14.

For the time being, I'm quoting your text with v.13 & 15 to give it some context. Hopefully, this will get the discussion back on track and stimulate some reflection for anyone who wants to ponder on this question.

Does anyone have any reflections what the underlined section in verse 14 means?

AV Ga 6:13 " For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh. 14. But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature."

BTW excellent text.


Blessings
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: Elle] #183427
04/24/17 12:59 AM
04/24/17 12:59 AM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Elle
I'm glad that your focus is to get down to the real good meat of things. I had worked on a reply to you some days ago, but I lost it all just before posting it. Probably, the Lord wanted me to reflect on it some more.

Interestingly, I had a recent "death" and "resurrection" experience in Jan 2017. It was quite intense and not pleasant at all (well the death part was brutal)... On the surface, I was battling with an advance case of cancer [I refused the standard treatment of chemo or surgery] that wasn't showing any signs of improvements despite all I had changed & done for 8 months. This led me to my "death" & after a "resurrection" type of experience. Only 2 months after that I saw the first tiny signs of cancer regression.

So your Easter question is quite personal & also important for me to be able to reflect on it more deeply and hoping that the Lord will shed light & understanding more on this topic and those scriptures like Gal 6:14.

For the time being, I'm quoting your text with v.13 & 15 to give it some context. Hopefully, this will get the discussion back on track and stimulate some reflection for anyone who wants to ponder on this question.

Does anyone have any reflections what the underlined section in verse 14 means?

AV Ga 6:13 " For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh. 14. But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature."

BTW excellent text.
I can see why the resurrection theme would be more personal for you. Its amazing how God can work if we let Him, and sometimes, He works anyways, inspite of ourselves and our ailing ways.

To me, just to get the ball rolling a little, the resurrection and the cross, are not two different, or separate things. They are one whole, made up of two or more items, depending upon the detail one would want to get into. But this is the only way I can go through life without worrying about all sorts of bits and pieces, to just look at it all as one whole picture.

The cross is quite the asset on the side of those who hunger for righteousness. It gives God the right to work on our behalf, even if we dont deserve it, because the cross takes care of the undeserving part quite nicely. It gives us an adge, if you will, one that I think Paul was referring to in Gal 6:14. (more later...) smile


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183437
04/24/17 04:13 PM
04/24/17 04:13 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
Originally Posted By: dedication
Kland has a very valid point.

It takes some very loose connections and very stretched points to connect Easter to the false sabbath;
I guess we'll have to disagree. I think Dedication showed very tight and connected points of how Easter was the cause of Sunday worship.

Maybe what you should have asked, is how do people commonly celebrate Easter day related to a false Sabbath (other than people not realizing what they are really celebrating)?

Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183439
04/24/17 04:28 PM
04/24/17 04:28 PM
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Nadi  Offline
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Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
It takes some very loose connections and very stretched points to connect Easter to the false sabbath


Unfortunately, Wanderer, that is SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) here on this forum.


"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183442
04/24/17 06:02 PM
04/24/17 06:02 PM
APL  Offline
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Originally Posted By: wanderer
It takes some very loose connections and very stretched points to connect Easter to the false sabbath
Why do you even call it Easter and not Passover/Feast of Unleavened Bread? Why not look at the symbology built into these types instead of using a false name celebrated on a false day? Christ was not raised on "easter," but on the 2nd day of the feast of unleavened bread, on the day of the wave sheaf. Current day "Christianity" all but obliterates the meaning in the type.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: APL] #183444
04/24/17 06:46 PM
04/24/17 06:46 PM
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Elle  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Canada
topic APL, dedication, kland and Alchemy...if you guys want to talk about how Easter Sunday sabotage the Sabbath keeping or that "Easter Sunday" is not the proper way to call it ...then start a new discussion. There's no need to hi-jack this one. This topic is not about what you guys want to talk about.
back
Just as a reminder of the topic of this discussion here's the OP :
Quote:
The topic of the resurrection seems to come into most prominence and recognition around this time of year. But I must confess it is only because of my birthday being this time of year, that I recall this amazing theme from the Bible.

It did get me to thinking about something though. I always enjoy any focus on the resurrection, but most years, I am left wondering why so much focus on the resurrection, with so little focus on the crucifixion, or the life of our Lord?

I think of a verse that helps me to sum up my many questions:

Quote:
"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;" (Phil 3:10)

Years ago, I was holding the hand of an elderly gentleman as he was dying, and something made me pick up his Bible with one hand and just start to leaf casually through it. The first thing that caught my eye was this text, scrawled in his hand writing. I turned to this man who was dying and told him what I saw, and he gripped my hand tight, smiled, and died.

I will never forget this text, and this text leads to my summary of all my other questions. World leaders and pastors everywhere, if they do celebrate Easter, usually focus on the resurrection. But this text mentions two things:

1) "the power of His resurrection..."
2) "the fellowship of His sufferings..."

Which of these two should we focus on more and why? What should each of these two phrases should manifest most in our daily life, and how should that look to the outside world?


Blessings
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: kland] #183445
04/24/17 06:49 PM
04/24/17 06:49 PM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
Originally Posted By: dedication
Kland has a very valid point.

It takes some very loose connections and very stretched points to connect Easter to the false sabbath;
I guess we'll have to disagree. I think Dedication showed very tight and connected points of how Easter was the cause of Sunday worship.

Maybe what you should have asked, is how do people commonly celebrate Easter day related to a false Sabbath (other than people not realizing what they are really celebrating)?
"Disagreement" is fine, however, this business of connecting Easter, to the false sabbath, is well beyond the stated scope in the OP. I clearly stated that I was hoping for discussion involving the resurrection and the cross. Those who wish to veer from that should just start another topic.


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: Nadi] #183446
04/24/17 06:52 PM
04/24/17 06:52 PM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
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Joined: Apr 2017
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Originally Posted By: Nadi
Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
It takes some very loose connections and very stretched points to connect Easter to the false sabbath


Unfortunately, Wanderer, that is SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) here on this forum.
Well; I guess there are good ones and bad ones. It is still worth trying to discuss. I personally, have always enjoyed discussing the cross and the resurrection, as they have been integral in my life, and in helping me to stay connected to God. smile


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: APL] #183447
04/24/17 06:57 PM
04/24/17 06:57 PM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
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Posts: 545
Central Alberta
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: wanderer
It takes some very loose connections and very stretched points to connect Easter to the false sabbath
Why do you even call it Easter and not Passover/Feast of Unleavened Bread? Why not look at the symbology built into these types instead of using a false name celebrated on a false day? Christ was not raised on "easter," but on the 2nd day of the feast of unleavened bread, on the day of the wave sheaf. Current day "Christianity" all but obliterates the meaning in the type.
I dont call it Easter. That, as I am sure you know, is what others have chosen to call it. My use of the term was chosen quite deliberately, but I did not choose this name. If you are trying to imply my support for said term, because I quoted what others have said, then you are wrong. To correct you, "Easter" actually does not refer just to "Sunday." It refers to Friday, Sat and Sunday.


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: Elle] #183448
04/24/17 07:00 PM
04/24/17 07:00 PM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
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Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
Originally Posted By: Elle
topic APL, dedication, kland and Alchemy...if you guys want to talk about how Easter Sunday sabotage the Sabbath keeping or that "Easter Sunday" is not the proper way to call it ...then start a new discussion. There's no need to hi-jack this one. This topic is not about what you guys want to talk about.
back
Just as a reminder of the topic of this discussion here's the OP :
Quote:
The topic of the resurrection seems to come into most prominence and recognition around this time of year. But I must confess it is only because of my birthday being this time of year, that I recall this amazing theme from the Bible.

It did get me to thinking about something though. I always enjoy any focus on the resurrection, but most years, I am left wondering why so much focus on the resurrection, with so little focus on the crucifixion, or the life of our Lord?

I think of a verse that helps me to sum up my many questions:

Quote:
"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;" (Phil 3:10)

Years ago, I was holding the hand of an elderly gentleman as he was dying, and something made me pick up his Bible with one hand and just start to leaf casually through it. The first thing that caught my eye was this text, scrawled in his hand writing. I turned to this man who was dying and told him what I saw, and he gripped my hand tight, smiled, and died.

I will never forget this text, and this text leads to my summary of all my other questions. World leaders and pastors everywhere, if they do celebrate Easter, usually focus on the resurrection. But this text mentions two things:

1) "the power of His resurrection..."
2) "the fellowship of His sufferings..."

Which of these two should we focus on more and why? What should each of these two phrases should manifest most in our daily life, and how should that look to the outside world?
Yes! What you said! smile


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183452
04/25/17 12:54 AM
04/25/17 12:54 AM
APL  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: Wanderer
To correct you, "Easter" actually does not refer just to "Sunday." It refers to Friday, Sat and Sunday.
Easter is a concoction of false ideas. The crucifixion is the antitype of Passover and its feast. Why not talk about the true and not the false?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183456
04/25/17 04:41 AM
04/25/17 04:41 AM
dedication  Offline
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When a person reads the title of the thread and the first sentence of the opening post they first see a very strong connection to the question of Easter and the papacy.

The title: "Easter questions"
Opening post starts with a link to "current pope's Easter message".


The discussion is actually very much in line with the title of the thread.

Also the connection between the adoption of the Easter date to celebrate Christ's death and resurrection to replace the Passover date, and the change of the Sabbath to Sunday is not at all "loose" or stretched" -- it was a FACT in the early history of the Christian Church, and the very foundation of the change.

However, Wanderer, did try to lead the discussion into the meaning of the cross and the resurrection.

Maybe a thread entitled "Importance of Christ's Death and Resurrection" would direct the minds of both readers and writers to that central theme of salvation which Wanderer first envisioned would be the direction the posts of the thread would take?

Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183457
04/25/17 06:26 AM
04/25/17 06:26 AM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
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Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
OK. Please don't criticize until you read the whole post here. Today, I read the current pope's Easter message. I thought it was quite good, as far as it went. In part, this is what he said:

Quote:
“Jesus has risen from the dead,” Francis said. “And this is not a fantasy. It’s not a celebration with many flowers [pointing at the arrangements surrounding him]. This is beautiful, but [the resurrection] is more.”


Quote:
“It is the mystery of the thrown-away stone, that ends up being the cornerstone of our existence. Christ has risen from the dead. In this throwaway culture, where that which is not useful takes the path of the use-and-throw, where that which is not useful is discarded, that stone that was discarded is the fountain of life,”


(https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2017/04/16/resurrection-not-fantasy-pope-francis-insists-easter-sunday/)

So to be clear, i am in no way criticizing what the pope said. I actually think it was quite nicely done.

The topic of the resurrection seems to come into most prominence and recognition around this time of year. But I must confess it is only because of my birthday being this time of year, that I recall this amazing theme from the Bible.

It did get me to thinking about something though. I always enjoy any focus on the resurrection, but most years, I am left wondering why so much focus on the resurrection, with so little focus on the crucifixion, or the life of our Lord?

I think of a verse that helps me to sum up my many questions:

Quote:
"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;" (Phil 3:10)

Years ago, I was holding the hand of an elderly gentleman as he was dying, and something made me pick up his Bible with one hand and just start to leaf casually through it. The first thing that caught my eye was this text, scrawled in his hand writing. I turned to this man who was dying and told him what I saw, and he gripped my hand tight, smiled, and died.

I will never forget this text, and this text leads to my summary of all my other questions. World leaders and pastors everywhere, if they do celebrate Easter, usually focus on the resurrection. But this text mentions two things:

1) "the power of His resurrection..."
2) "the fellowship of His sufferings..."

Which of these two should we focus on more and why? What should each of these two phrases should manifest most in our daily life, and how should that look to the outside world?
The sacrifice of Christ as atonement for sin is the great truth around which all other truths cluster.--Gospel Workers, p. 315. {7ABC 457.1}

It [the cross] is the central pillar on which hangs the far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory which is for those who accept that cross. Under and around the cross of Christ, that immortal pillar, sin shall never revive, nor error obtain control.--Letter 124, 1900. {7ABC 457.2}

The Sacrifice of Christ as an atonement for sin is the great truth around which all other truths cluster. In order to be rightly understood and appreciated, every truth in the Word of God, from Genesis to Revelation, must be studied in the light that streams from the cross of Calvary. I present before you the great, grand monument of mercy and regeneration, salvation and redemption,--the Son of God uplifted on the cross. This is to be the foundation of every discourse given by our ministers.[and forum members]--Gospel Workers, p. 315. {7ABC 457.3}

People are going to call it "Easter" as long as time remains, but we can profit much more on the salient points by a closer focus on the cross, and Christ crucified, for this is the whole point of the resurrection.


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: Nadi] #183460
04/25/17 11:59 AM
04/25/17 11:59 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
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Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: Nadi
Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
It takes some very loose connections and very stretched points to connect Easter to the false sabbath


Unfortunately, Wanderer, that is SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) here on this forum.


I find it wise to listen to God's prophets. SOP being the Spirit of Prophecy.

Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: Elle] #183462
04/25/17 01:26 PM
04/25/17 01:26 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Elle
APL, dedication, kland and Alchemy...if you guys want to talk about how Easter Sunday sabotage the Sabbath keeping or that "Easter Sunday" is not the proper way to call it ...then start a new discussion. There's no need to hi-jack this one. This topic is not about what you guys want to talk about.

Elle, The Wanderer asked:
Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
How does "Easter Sunday" promote a "false Sabbath?" smile

I answered.
Do you see a problem with that?

Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: kland] #183465
04/25/17 03:11 PM
04/25/17 03:11 PM
E
Elle  Offline
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Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: Elle
APL, dedication, kland and Alchemy...if you guys want to talk about how Easter Sunday sabotage the Sabbath keeping or that "Easter Sunday" is not the proper way to call it ...then start a new discussion. There's no need to hi-jack this one. This topic is not about what you guys want to talk about.

Elle, The Wanderer asked:
Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
How does "Easter Sunday" promote a "false Sabbath?" smile

I answered.
Do you see a problem with that?

I do see a problem with that.

The Wanderer, being new here, doesn't know everyone and was only nice to you despite your attempt to veer off the discussion. You've been here as long as I ... how many years is it -- almost 10 years now. You know as well as I about how prominent topic hi-jacking is despite the many attempts of a moderator and other members that tries to bring it back on track.

I'm glad that the Wanderer did kindly bring us back to the topic.

The problem I see is you, and many others here, that should know very well by now that you should start a new topic if you want to talk about something else that cannot be resolved in a few posts. And Moderator dedication, who should make sure topics stays on track, have no excuse and should not be found contributing in it to any great extend. I think she should repent, or be striped off of her authority that Daryl has entrusted her with.

There's no need to hi-jack topics...unless your goal is to confuse matters and divert the topic at hand. I'm sure no one wants to do that, right?


Blessings
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: Alchemy] #183467
04/25/17 05:10 PM
04/25/17 05:10 PM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
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Posts: 545
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Originally Posted By: Alchemy

I find it wise to listen to God's prophets. SOP being the Spirit of Prophecy.
Awesome! Good to hear my friend. We have a point in common to build on! More later. smile


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: kland] #183468
04/25/17 05:28 PM
04/25/17 05:28 PM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
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Central Alberta
Originally Posted By: kland
I answered.Do you see a problem with that?
The best answer that I have to some of the "Easter Questions" would be a short continuance in exploring Christ and Him crucified; for as I earlier said, that is the whole point of the resurrection. May God add His blessing to the reading of His Word, and His testimonies:

Quote:
The cross of Calvary challenges, and will finally vanquish every earthly and Hellish power. In the cross all influence centers, and from it all influence goes forth. It is the great center of attraction; for on it Christ gave up His life for the human race. This sacrifice was offered for the purpose of restoring man to his original perfection; yea, more. It was offered to give him an entire transformation of character, making him more than a conqueror. . . . {7ABC 457.4}

If the cross does not find an influence in its favor, it creates an influence. Through generation succeeding generation, the truth for this time is revealed as present truth. Christ on the cross was the medium whereby mercy and truth met together, and righteousness 458and peace kissed each other. This is the means that is to move the world.-- Manuscript 56, 1899. {7ABC 457.5}

There is one great central truth to be kept ever before the mind in the searching of the Scriptures--Christ and Him crucified. Every other truth is invested with influence and power corresponding to its relation to this theme. It is only in the light of the cross that we can discern the exalted character of the law of God. The soul palsied by sin can be endowed with life only through the work wrought out upon the cross by the Author of our salvation.--Manuscript 31, 1890. {7ABC 458.1}


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183473
04/26/17 06:37 AM
04/26/17 06:37 AM
dedication  Offline
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Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
Originally Posted By: APL
If one's thrust is to promote a false Sabbath (7th-day), then lets push Easter Sunday, and ignore the whole meaning of the Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread!
I don't think that the typical "Easter Sunday" has any functions that would promote a false Sabbath. That does not seem to fit with my OP either. But if you have some clear documentation about this, it would be worth looking at. How does "Easter Sunday" promote a "false Sabbath?" smile


Remember in another thread you mentioned;

Arguments that use truth to prove an untruth?

That is exactly what was, and still is being done with the glorious truth of the resurrection of Christ, it is being used to prove an untruth!

In your last post you quoted:
"It is only in the light of the cross that we can discern the exalted character of the law of God. The soul palsied by sin can be endowed with life only through the work wrought out upon the cross by the Author of our salvation.--Manuscript 31, 1890. {7ABC 458.1}

Add to that:
"The cross of Christ testifies to the immutability of the law of God--testifies that God so loved us that He gave His Son to die for our sins; ... God's moral standard could not be changed to meet man in his fallen condition. {1SM 312.2}

Yet how has this been reversed in the Christian world?


Originally Posted By: EGW
In the first centuries the true Sabbath had been kept by all Christians. They were jealous for the honor of God, and, believing that his law is immutable, they zealously guarded the sacredness of its precepts.
But with great subtlety, Satan worked through his agents to bring about his object. That the attention of the people might be called to the Sunday, it was made a festival in honor of the resurrection of Christ....
Protestants now urge that the resurrection of Christ on Sunday made it the Christian Sabbath. But Scripture evidence is lacking. No such honor was given to the day by Christ or his apostles. The observance of Sunday as a Christian institution had its origin in that “mystery of lawlessness”{GC88 52


To see the reality of how the resurrection was used to disannul God's law, just consider Pope John Paul II' Sunday keeping letter.

APOSTOLIC LETTER
DIES DOMINI
OF THE HOLY FATHER
JOHN PAUL II

He begins the letter with this:

Quote:
1. The Lord's Day — as Sunday was called from Apostolic times — has always been accorded special attention in the history of the Church because of its close connection with the very core of the Christian mystery. In fact, in the weekly reckoning of time Sunday recalls the day of Christ's Resurrection. It is Easter which returns week by week, celebrating Christ's victory over sin and death,


His second point
Quote:
2. The Resurrection of Jesus is the fundamental event upon which Christian faith rests (cf. 1 Cor 15:14). It is an astonishing reality, fully grasped in the light of faith, yet historically attested to by those who were privileged to see the Risen Lord. It is a wondrous event which is not only absolutely unique in human history, but which lies at the very heart of the mystery of time. In fact, "all time belongs to [Christ] and all the ages",...Therefore, in commemorating the day of Christ's Resurrection not just once a year but every Sunday, the Church seeks to indicate to every generation the true fulcrum of history, to which the mystery of the world's origin and its final destiny leads.



The third point in the popes' letter:
Quote:
3. The fundamental importance of Sunday has been recognized through two thousand years of history and was emphatically restated by the Second Vatican Council: "Every seven days, the Church celebrates the Easter mystery. This is a tradition going back to the Apostles, taking its origin from the actual day of Christ's Resurrection — a day thus appropriately designated 'the Lord's Day'."


Moving to point 19 of the pope's letter on Sunday keeping:

Quote:
19. "We celebrate Sunday because of the venerable Resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, and we do so not only at Easter but also at each turning of the week": so wrote Pope Innocent I at the beginning of the fifth century,(15) testifying to an already well established practice which had evolved from the early years after the Lord's Resurrection. Saint Basil speaks of "holy Sunday, honoured by the Lord's Resurrection, the first fruits of all the other days";(16) and Saint Augustine calls Sunday "a sacrament of Easter".(17)



And from another Catholic author explaining why Easter was kept after Passover:


Quote:
So the Council of Nicaea's prohibition on celebrating Easter "with the Jews" ... For Christians, the Passover of the Jews has found its completion in the Passover of Christ, and, like "all former rites" it must "surrender to the Lord's New Testament."

It's the same reason why Christians celebrate the Sabbath on Sunday, rather than retaining the Jewish Sabbath (Saturday). The Jewish Sabbath was a type or symbol of the Christian Sabbath—the day that Christ rose from the dead.
by Scott P. Richert is the author of numerous articles on Catholic moral, social, political, and historical issues.


As pointed out in an earlier post, this didn't happen immediately -- many Christians held a memorial celebration for Christ's death and resurrection on their Passover dates. Easter had to be "decreed" to enforce it on all Christianity 300 years later.
Sunday was brought in using the truth of Christ's resurrection to establish a false Sabbath -- that's what Easter has done.
First by moving the time for a memorial of Christ's death and resurrection away from its Passover location in the calendar, to a perpetual yearly Sunday, and then keeping every weekly sunday in honor of the resurrection.
The word "Easter" is not a Biblical word, it is in no original manuscripts.

Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: Elle] #183482
04/26/17 10:13 PM
04/26/17 10:13 PM
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kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Elle
I do see a problem with that.

The Wanderer, being new here, doesn't know everyone and was only nice to you despite your attempt to veer off the discussion.
Elle, answering his question is my "attempt to veer off the discussion"? Really, you think that?
(Well, seeing that you claim the same against me for answering your questions, I guess so...)

Quote:
The problem I see is you, and many others here, that should know very well by now that you should start a new topic if you want to talk about something else that cannot be resolved in a few posts.
Elle, I didn't want to start a new topic. I was answering a question. I thought it was a legitimate question. Guess you don't.

If you want to start a new topic about how answering questions should be counted as sidetracking, go ahead.

Quit hi-jacking this thread.

Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: kland] #183483
04/26/17 10:16 PM
04/26/17 10:16 PM
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The Wanderer  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: Elle
I do see a problem with that.

The Wanderer, being new here, doesn't know everyone and was only nice to you despite your attempt to veer off the discussion.
Elle, answering his question is my "attempt to veer off the discussion"? Really, you think that?
(Well, seeing that you claim the same against me for answering your questions, I guess so...)

Quote:
The problem I see is you, and many others here, that should know very well by now that you should start a new topic if you want to talk about something else that cannot be resolved in a few posts.
Elle, I didn't want to start a new topic. I was answering a question. I thought it was a legitimate question. Guess you don't.

If you want to start a new topic about how answering questions should be counted as sidetracking, go ahead.

Quit hi-jacking this thread.
Just keep in mind that these are not my thoughts on the matter, although I do appreciate the vote of confidence. I will continue posting along the veins of truth regarding the cross and the resurrection; for that remains my primary interest in this topic. smile

Last edited by The Wanderer; 04/26/17 10:17 PM.

"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183489
04/28/17 03:55 AM
04/28/17 03:55 AM
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I do apologize if I posted off topic. I didn't mean too. I really thought I was on topic.

Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: Alchemy] #183490
04/28/17 04:23 AM
04/28/17 04:23 AM
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The Wanderer  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Alchemy
I do apologize if I posted off topic. I didn't mean too. I really thought I was on topic.
Thankyou I appreciate that I also do apologize, as there are ways I could have made myself/intentions more clear to everyone. This is the kind of posting, that, perhaps, falls within the category of the topic. Jesus did not play the blame game; except to take our blame upon Himself. Its good to see His pattern being reflected in some of the posting here. smile

- more coming soon.


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: dedication] #183491
04/28/17 04:37 AM
04/28/17 04:37 AM
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The Wanderer  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: dedication

Remember in another thread you mentioned;

Arguments that use truth to prove an untruth?

That is exactly what was, and still is being done with the glorious truth of the resurrection of Christ, it is being used to prove an untruth!

In your last post you quoted:
"It is only in the light of the cross that we can discern the exalted character of the law of God. The soul palsied by sin can be endowed with life only through the work wrought out upon the cross by the Author of our salvation.--Manuscript 31, 1890. {7ABC 458.1}

Add to that:
"The cross of Christ testifies to the immutability of the law of God--testifies that God so loved us that He gave His Son to die for our sins; ... God's moral standard could not be changed to meet man in his fallen condition. {1SM 312.2}

Yet how has this been reversed in the Christian world?
Of course, you do state some truth about something I posted in another topic, which I appreciate. Thank you.

It should be noted that since i started this topic, I should be the one who knows for sure why i started it and what my intentions are. There simply is no need for further debate on this. I underlined in red above the question I did not once ask; to illustrate what I mean specifically by that. smile

FYI I refer to the OP and what I did state clearly:

Quote:
The topic of the resurrection seems to come into most prominence and recognition around this time of year. But I must confess it is only because of my birthday being this time of year, that I recall this amazing theme from the Bible.

It did get me to thinking about something though. I always enjoy any focus on the resurrection, but most years, I am left wondering why so much focus on the resurrection, with so little focus on the crucifixion, or the life of our Lord?

I think of a verse that helps me to sum up my many questions:

Quote:
"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;" (Phil 3:10)

Years ago, I was holding the hand of an elderly gentleman as he was dying, and something made me pick up his Bible with one hand and just start to leaf casually through it. The first thing that caught my eye was this text, scrawled in his hand writing. I turned to this man who was dying and told him what I saw, and he gripped my hand tight, smiled, and died.

I will never forget this text, and this text leads to my summary of all my other questions. World leaders and pastors everywhere, if they do celebrate Easter, usually focus on the resurrection. But this text mentions two things:

1) "the power of His resurrection..."
2) "the fellowship of His sufferings..."

Which of these two should we focus on more and why? What should each of these two phrases should manifest most in our daily life, and how should that look to the outside world?


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183494
04/28/17 05:15 PM
04/28/17 05:15 PM
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kland  Offline
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How about neither of "His" but what it means to the universe. That is we shouldn't focus on His resurrection, nor His sufferings, but what they mean, what it accomplishes, what it means to suffer or be willing to suffer for our faith as He did.

Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183499
04/29/17 03:11 AM
04/29/17 03:11 AM
dedication  Offline
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Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
Originally Posted By: dedication

Remember in another thread you mentioned;

Arguments that use truth to prove an untruth?

That is exactly what was, and still is being done with the glorious truth of the resurrection of Christ, it is being used to prove an untruth!

In your last post you quoted:
"It is only in the light of the cross that we can discern the exalted character of the law of God. The soul palsied by sin can be endowed with life only through the work wrought out upon the cross by the Author of our salvation.--Manuscript 31, 1890. {7ABC 458.1}

Add to that:
"The cross of Christ testifies to the immutability of the law of God--testifies that God so loved us that He gave His Son to die for our sins; ... God's moral standard could not be changed to meet man in his fallen condition. {1SM 312.2}

Yet how has this been reversed in the Christian world?
Of course, you do state some truth about something I posted in another topic, which I appreciate. Thank you.

It should be noted that since i started this topic, I should be the one who knows for sure why i started it and what my intentions are. There simply is no need for further debate on this. I underlined in red above the question I did not once ask; to illustrate what I mean specifically by that. smile



Why is there no need to discuss why, since the cross shows the immutability of the law of God, it is now, in the Christian world, being used to belittle the law of God?

Just because someone starts a thread they can't really expect that other ideas and questions then those they originally had in mind, are not allowed in the discussion on the subject.

Yes, I did ask the question that you put in red and dismissed as unworthy for discussion. The two EGW quotes I referred to were in line with what you posted in the post just above my reply.

Why do you think such a question is off topic?

The truth of the cross and resurrection in the world today have been used to teach untruths. The MEANING of the cross and resurrection has been distorted in the Christian world.

Maybe in understanding these it gives some serious answers to what you were wondering about in your OP.


Originally Posted By: the Wanderer


It did get me to thinking about something though. I always enjoy any focus on the resurrection, but most years, I am left wondering why so much focus on the resurrection, with so little focus on the crucifixion, or the life of our Lord?


Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183501
04/29/17 04:35 AM
04/29/17 04:35 AM
dedication  Offline
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The cross --

Jesus suffered for our sins, He took our sins and transgressions upon Himself and died the death we deserved, that we might have the life He deserves.

Isaiah 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
53:7 for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD JEHOVAH to bruise him; he has put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

1 Cor 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:



Galatians 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.




As we come to Christ and accept Him --


Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:
6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
6:13 Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God.



Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183509
04/30/17 12:04 AM
04/30/17 12:04 AM
dedication  Offline
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Comments on Romans 6

Do we believe that when we were baptized that--
“I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me” (Gal 2:20)?

Do we now count ourselves dead to sin -- “The self you loathe is there on the Cross in Christ.”

Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Do we now reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive for Christ?

If we could only grasp and believe this truth what a change it would make in our lives.

Would we stop trying to reform the old man because the old man is dead, and simply start living for Christ with our whole hearts, because we are now alive in Him?

Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183510
04/30/17 12:13 AM
04/30/17 12:13 AM
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The Wanderer  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: The Wanderer

1) "the power of His resurrection..."
2) "the fellowship of His sufferings..."

Which of these two should we focus on more and why? What should each of these two phrases should manifest most in our daily life, and how should that look to the outside world?
If the cross does not find an influence in its favor, it creates an influence. Through generation succeeding generation, the truth for this time is revealed as present truth. Christ on the cross was the medium whereby mercy and truth met together, and righteousness and peace kissed each other. This is the means that is to move the world.-- Manuscript 56, 1899. {7ABC 457.5}

There is one great central truth to be kept ever before the mind in the searching of the Scriptures--Christ and Him crucified. Every other truth is invested with influence and power corresponding to its relation to this theme. It is only in the light of the cross that we can discern the exalted character of the law of God. The soul palsied by sin can be endowed with life only through the work wrought out upon the cross by the Author of our salvation.--Manuscript 31, 1890. {7ABC 458.1}


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183516
04/30/17 07:15 PM
04/30/17 07:15 PM
dedication  Offline
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Which should be our focus?

Both!

Without the suffering and the cross, their would be no "power of resurrection".
Without the resurrection Christ's death on the cross would be in vain for death would still be the end.


Applying the events to us -- as Romans 6 does.
We too, through Christ, must suffer death to sin, that we might rise to newness of life in Him.

We must believe that when we accepted Christ and were baptized the "old man" was crucified with Christ.
We must reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive in Christ.

A question --
Yes, the cross is to be central, also
the three angel's messages are the special and urgent last day warning which we are to proclaim to the world.

Do you see the two combined?
How?

How does our daily focus on the last scenes of Christ's life on earth prepare us to stand in the last days?

Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183529
05/03/17 01:37 PM
05/03/17 01:37 PM
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Dedication, I read an article in the paper about a church maintaining people sitting with the "eucharist" throughout the night, 24 hours a day. One was asked why, what does he do? He replied,
I look at Him,
and He looks back at me.

Should our focus be on His suffering and death?
Or should it be in what it accomplishes?
How can one be careful it doesn't transition into worshiping a eucharist?

Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183534
05/03/17 06:28 PM
05/03/17 06:28 PM
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The festivals of the Hebrews started with Passover (the sacrifice) and then first fruits (resurrection), but when on to Pentecost, Trumpets, Day of Atonement and Shelters. Christians have screwed up Passover and the Resurrection by their Easter holiday, and for the most part ignore the rest. They declare that we have only to believe on Jesus Christ, and that faith is all-sufficient: that the righteousness of Christ is to be the sinner's credentials; that this imputed righteousness fulfills the law for us, and that we are under no obligation to obey the law of God. This class claim that Christ came to save sinners, and that He has saved them. "I am saved," they will repeat over and over again. But are they saved while transgressing the law of Jehovah?--No; for the garments of Christ's righteousness are not a cloak for iniquity. Such teaching is a gross deception, and Christ becomes to these persons a stumbling block as He did to the Jews,--to the Jews, because they would not receive Him as their personal Saviour, to these professed believers in Christ, because they separate Christ and the law, and regard faith as a substitute for obedience. They separate the Father and the Son, the Saviour of the world. Virtually they teach, both by precept and example, that Christ, by His death, saves men in their transgressions. {BEcho, February 8, 1897 par. 7}


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: kland] #183537
05/04/17 02:12 AM
05/04/17 02:12 AM
dedication  Offline
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Originally Posted By: kland
Dedication, I read an article in the paper about a church maintaining people sitting with the "eucharist" throughout the night, 24 hours a day. One was asked why, what does he do? He replied,
I look at Him,
and He looks back at me.

Should our focus be on His suffering and death?
Or should it be in what it accomplishes?
How can one be careful it doesn't transition into worshiping a eucharist?


Again my answer would be "both".
Both what happened in the past, and what it accomplished.

Of course, that does not include staring at a wafer thinking that is Jesus -- that is an abomination of idol worship, thinking they can create Christ in a wafer and then adore the wafer.
Nor is it in having crosses everywhere -- treating them like a "good luck charm".

But we do need to focus on those final days of Christ's life on earth.

The beloved commander of heaven, living in the glorious palaces of God's throne, the One Who created and sustained the universe -- would come to this dark, dismal world and suffer and die -- why would He lower Himself to such an enormous extent?


"And when I think, that God, His Son not sparing;
Sent Him to die, I scarce can take it in;
That on the Cross, my burden gladly bearing,
He bled and died to take away my sin."

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son . . . (John 3:16).
•“But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8).
•“I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me” (Galatians 2:20).
•“This is love; not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins” (1 John 4:10, NIV).

The cross is love in verity. The cross is God motivated by love that surpasses anything we have known. He has such love for the sinner, to rescue him from eternal death and open the door to eternal life!

He left the splendor of heaven
Knowing his destiny
Was the lonely hill of Golgotha
There to lay down his life for me

And if that isn't love
Then the ocean is dry
There's no stars in the sky
And the sparrows can't fly
If that isn't love


There is no stronger and lifechanging power than "love".
"We love Him because He first loved us."
When we comprehend His love for us, it subdues the heart and draws us to Him.

Countless martyrs would rather die, than deny the One who was willing to suffer so much for them -- they didn't mind dying for their faith simply because Jesus loved them and died for them, that they might have eternal life! If He, the Prince of heaven would do that for them, they won't shrink under pressure but for His name sake endure persecution, even if it meant their lives.

No, we are not simply to focus on the "suffering" -- the violence and cruelty is to be known but it is not the central issue. Nor is there any merit in inflicting suffering upon ourselves.
However, when we realize that Christ suffered and died for us -- for me -- unworthy, stumbling me that has misrepresented Him so many times -- it melts the heart!
It motivates us to love and obey Him, no matter if that leads to suffering, our main desire is to be molded into His image and be with Him for eternity.

As messengers of life, giving the three angels messages to a dying world, we must point people to Jesus and magnify the love of God in giving His Son that we may live.
We must expound the love that enabled Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane to say, "Not my will but thine be done". He realized these people, whom He loved would not be lost, but be saved if He drank the bitter cup of suffering, shame, and death.

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Quote:
"What is that joy? "Who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God" (Hebrews 12:2). The joy of seeing souls redeemed, souls eternally saved, is the privilege of those who have overcome obstacles in order to put their feet in the footprints of Him who said, "Follow me." {HP 300.4}


It was love that held Jesus to the cross.

He could have called ten thousand angels
To destroy the world and set him free
He could have called ten thousand angels
But he died alone, for you and me

Calvary is a love story -- The Creator paid the extreme price to save His beloved and redeem her as His companion for eternity.

Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183538
05/04/17 05:01 AM
05/04/17 05:01 AM
dedication  Offline
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The cross demonstrates God's love.

The cross also offers the key to victory.

Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Link that verse with other texts previously quoted --
Like Romans 6 --
6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

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Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

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