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#183214 - 04/10/17 01:50 AM Re: Healthy, Healthful Eggs for Health! [Re: APL]
The Wanderer Offline
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Registered: 04/03/17
Posts: 282
Loc: Central Alberta
Originally Posted By: APL
Wanderer, it is true I not put much faith in much of green's theology. Though in my previous comment, the rejection of the SOP was directed more at the top leadership of SDA inc.
Well; it's not necesarily "wrong" to feel doubts about Church Leadership, or "Green's Theology," or the "interpretation" of others on "the health message," it might even be good for the health to not keep such steam all bottled up inside. The first step to healing, unity, and "the fellowship of Christ" starts with transparency and honesty. I can't imagine us as individuals, or as the collective "Church" coming to God any other way. Although I would add that it is likely always more important to promote hope in all situations of contention and disagreement. If we cannot give people the Hope we have in Christ, no matter what the disagreement,then we give them nothing.

The great motive powers of the soul are faith, hope, and love; and it is to these that Bible study, rightly pursued, appeals. The outward beauty of the Bible, the beauty of imagery and expression, is but the setting, as it were, for its real treasure--the beauty of holiness. In its record of the men who walked with God, we may catch glimpses of His glory. In the One "altogether lovely" we behold Him, of whom all beauty of earth and heaven is but a dim reflection. "I, if I be lifted up," He said, "will draw all men unto Me." John 12:32.

As the student of the Bible beholds the Redeemer, there is awakened in the soul the mysterious power of faith, adoration, and love. Upon the vision of Christ the gaze is fixed, and the beholder grows into the likeness of that which he adores. The words of the apostle Paul become the language of the soul: "I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, that I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings." Philippians 3:8-10. {Ed 192.1}

The springs of heavenly peace and joy unsealed in the soul by the words of Inspiration will become a mighty river of influence to bless all who come within its reach. Let the youth of today, the youth who are growing up with the Bible in their hands, become the recipients and the channels of its life-giving energy, and what streams of blessing would flow forth to the world!--influences of whose power to heal and comfort we can scarcely conceive--rivers of living water, fountains "springing up unto everlasting life." {Ed 192.2}
_________________________
"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)

- The Wanderer
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#183226 - 04/10/17 11:46 AM Re: Healthy, Healthful Eggs for Health! [Re: Green Cochoa]
kland Offline
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Registered: 10/28/08
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Loc: Midland
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Originally Posted By: kland
Green, how much sulfur do you need to flush out poisons?
How much specifically needed for arsenic from eating a mostly rice diet?


Kland, those are good questions. I do not have scientific studies that would firmly quantify the answers with something like dosages or milligrams. However, that the consumption of a high-sulfur diet helps to eliminate the arsenic I have seen first hand from returned lab reports comparing myself, a vegetarian, to another person subsisting on the same rice diet but with the addition of meat. Whereas my own levels of arsenic were found to be elevated, my co-worker's arsenic was in the normal range. Later, when that individual became vegetarian, the tests were redone and both of us had elevated arsenic.
Seems like, "a lot of "may" in there, and not a single reference to a peer-reviewed study in support of its pseudo-facts".

So you don't have any scientific facts.
You don't know how much sulfur is needed.
You don't know how much eggs provide.

Quote:
Brown rice contains higher arsenic levels than white rice.
Pseudo-facts or pseudo feelings? Seems like it would.
But you don't know.

Quote:
From the research I have done, no higher sulfur-content food is available to a vegan than garlic. Garlic contains more sulfur than onions. However, ounce for ounce, an egg will have eight times as much sulfur as garlic;
And we should just take your word for it, eh?
Pseudo-feelings.

Quote:
I rather dislike eating eggs. More and more they seem to lack in quality. Nonetheless, the more I manage to consume, the better I feel overall. When I fail to eat them with sufficient quantities, I can feel my stomach weakening, and the tinge of headache that can set in. It's not a strong headache, at least not at first. But it will not go away, and can stay for weeks at a time.
Yep, I've heard meat eaters say the same, insisting they must certainly have meat.
Ellen White went through that.
4. I have thought for years that I was dependent upon a meat diet for strength. I have eaten three meals a day until within a few months. It has been very difficult for me to go from one meal to another without suffering from faintness at the stomach, and dizziness of the head. Eating would remove these feelings. I seldom allowed myself to eat anything between my regular meals, and have made it a practice to often retire without supper. But I have suffered greatly for want of food from breakfast to dinner, and have frequently fainted. Eating meat removed for the time these faint feelings. I therefore decided that meat was indispensable in my case. {CD 482.2}


Quote:
When my stomach weakens, I feel loath to eat rice. This causes me to switch to more "American" foods, like corn flakes, white bread (there's no such thing as whole wheat around here), or oats. But these all increase the cost of living for me substantially. In other words, my vegetarian diet truly is more expensive than the poor, meat-eater's diet of those around me. They could not afford to live as I do, even with simply milk and eggs in place of meat--truth be told.
Don't imply a vegetarian diet is synonymous to your SAD American diet. Really, corn flakes and white bread you associate with "vegetarian"? Pitiful.

Quote:
I advise the locals to give up their pork, shrimp, snake, dog, mouse, or whatever else of an unclean nature entirely, and then to cut down substantially on fish.
Why? What if they start feeeeeling "faintness at the stomach, and dizziness of the head"?

Quote:
While they begin to remove meat from their diet, I advise them to use eggs as its replacement--just as Mrs. White says.
That almost sounds like reason here. But keep in mind, that's for them. Not you. You know better. You should have progressed more. But instead you are trying to make your diet a criterion for those of us who aren't in that situation. If you want to reject Ellen White, that's your business. Don't make it for the rest of us.

And your B12 snide egotistic remark to APL, you still haven't given any facts as to how much you get in eggs.
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#183227 - 04/10/17 11:48 AM Re: Healthy, Healthful Eggs for Health! [Re: Green Cochoa]
kland Offline
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4500+ Member
Registered: 10/28/08
Posts: 4996
Loc: Midland
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
According to Mrs. White, teaching people to cook without milk and eggs, and prescribing a vegan diet, were poles apart. It is important that we give people knowledge. It is also important that we give them freedom of conscience without pressure.
Is that like the Bible teaching us to live without sin is poles apart from actually striving to live without sin?
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#183228 - 04/10/17 11:50 AM Re: Healthy, Healthful Eggs for Health! [Re: The Wanderer]
kland Offline
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Registered: 10/28/08
Posts: 4996
Loc: Midland
Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
I am of the opinion when it comes to the food thing, we should not be so hasty in labelling others as "rejecting the testimonies," for it is really just a difference in understandings and knowledge bases. And of course, not everyone, everywhere can do the same when it comes to diet.
Are you aware that Green was the one who initiated the, "rejecting the testimonies" with regard to food, by plugging in his promotion for eggs?
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#183231 - 04/10/17 02:32 PM Re: Healthy, Healthful Eggs for Health! [Re: kland]
The Wanderer Offline
SDA
Active Member 2017

Supporting Member 2017
Full Member
Registered: 04/03/17
Posts: 282
Loc: Central Alberta
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
I am of the opinion when it comes to the food thing, we should not be so hasty in labelling others as "rejecting the testimonies," for it is really just a difference in understandings and knowledge bases. And of course, not everyone, everywhere can do the same when it comes to diet.
Are you aware that Green was the one who initiated the, "rejecting the testimonies" with regard to food, by plugging in his promotion for eggs?
Yes, I am aware. My statement is intended for all of us, and if you look at my statement, you will see that I used "we," to make sure people could see my intentions
_________________________
"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)

- The Wanderer
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#183331 - 04/17/17 01:42 PM Re: Healthy, Healthful Eggs for Health! [Re: Green Cochoa]
kland Offline
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Active Member 2017

4500+ Member
Registered: 10/28/08
Posts: 4996
Loc: Midland
Again, when someone is trying to make a quote sound against what you know to be true, it pays to find and read the quote, read above and beyond it. It may be, shall we say, a little bit different than what was portrayed.

Read the whole thing. Here are a few excerpts.

When Health Reform Becomes Health Deform

Letter 37, 1901
{CD 203-}
You will not be successful in sanitariums, where the sick
are treated, if you prescribe for the patients the same diet you have prescribed for yourself and your wife.


So the passage is about a doctor prescribing for sick patients.

While I would discard flesh meat as injurious, something less objectionable may be used, and this is found in eggs.

Something less objectionable than meat.
For the diet, of the sick, who are not necessarily subscribing to the health reform.

You have not taken the food essential to nourish your frail physical strength. You must not deny yourself of good, wholesome food.

So whatever the doctor is eating, he is denying himself and wife good wholesome food. This does not imply that the less objectionable items than meat are considered to be "good wholesome food". Just that the doctor, in his choices, has denied "good wholesome food".

At one time Doctor ----- tried to teach our family to cook according to health reform, as he viewed it, without salt or anything else to season the food.
This involves more than not eating eggs. No salt, either.
"tasteless dishes", monotonous dishes, "insipid" dishes, "refused by the stomach" dishes.

Do not go to extremes in regard to the health reform. Some of our people are very careless in regard to health reform. But because some are far behind, you must not, in order to be an example to them, be an extremist.
Some are far behind! But don't go to the extreme to make up for them.

The reason for Doctor -----'s poor health is his overdrawing on his bank stock of health, and then failing to replace the amount drawn out by wholesome, nutritious, palatable food. My brother, devote your whole life to Him who was crucified for you, but do not tie yourself down to a meager diet; for thus you misrepresent health reform.

Meager diet.
Overdrawn on health.
Would it be an overstatement to say, "sick"?
If you are sick, eggs can help recover, if you are not going to replace your diet with "good wholesome food".

Those who desire to be co-workers with God must consider carefully how they teach health reform in God's great vineyard. They must move carefully in specifying just what food should and should not be eaten. The human messenger must unite with the divine Helper in presenting the message of mercy to the multitudes God would save.
We are to be brought into connection with the masses. Should health reform be taught them in its most extreme form, harm would be done. We ask them to leave off eating meat and drinking tea and coffee. This is well.
God's great vineyard.
Multitudes God would save.
Connection with the masses.
Sounds like in the message to the world, we should not at present, 100+! years ago, urge giving up eggs and milk besides the more objectionable meat, tea, and coffee. A little at a time, for diet reform is progressive.

But some say that milk also should be given up. This is a subject that needs to be carefully handled. There are poor families whose diet consists of bread and milk, and, if they can get it, a little fruit. All flesh food should be discarded, but vegetables should be made palatable with a little milk or cream or something equivalent. The poor say, when health reform is presented to them, "What shall we eat? We cannot
afford to buy the nut foods." As I preach the gospel to the poor, I am instructed to tell them to eat that food which is most nourishing. I cannot say to them: You must not eat eggs, or milk, or cream; you must use no butter in the preparation of food. The gospel must be preached to the poor, and the time has not yet come to prescribe the strictest diet.

Poor.
Whose diet consists of bread and milk.
Poor who cannot "afford to buy the nut foods."
The nut foods, which could supply the place of eggs and milk and cream.
Because they are poor.
Nothing about because they don't want to.

The reforms that are strained to the highest tension might accommodate a certain class, who can obtain all they need to take the place of the things discarded; but this class forms a very small minority of the people to whom these tests seem unnecessary.
The health reform can accommodate a certain class,
who can INDEED obtain all they need to take the place of the things discarded;
A class who forms a very small minority
in 1901!

They fail to supply the system with proper nourishment, and as a consequence become weak and unable to work.
Of which, a certain class can INDEED supply the system of the things discarded.
A certain class, who over 100+ years ago, could even then supply the system of the things discarded.
Who, at least in North America, who are not poor (but even then, it's probably less expensive) cannot supply the system of the things discarded?
Have we not progressed?
Has shipping of fresh produce nationwide become a reality?
What would one eat, in the middle of the nation, in 1901, in winter? Can we not today get fresh strawberries year round? Can we not find some sort of fresh fruits and vegetables, seeds and grains, year round for fairly decent price?


The patients pay a good price for their board, and they should have liberal fare. Some may come to the sanitarium in a condition demanding stern denial of appetite and the simplest fare, but as their health improves, they should be liberally supplied with nourishing food.

Sick patients.
Who are paying for care.
The doctor's "diet should be made the criterion for others to follow."


Is anyone here urging the poor to eat a certain way?
Is anyone here urging those who cannot otherwise supply the system with proper nourishment to eat a certain way?

But there is someone here urging others, whether poor or not or otherwise able to supply the system with proper nourishment to not follow the health message, who rejects the testimonies. One who thinks their "diet should be made the criterion for others to follow."
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#183393 - 04/21/17 11:52 AM Re: Healthy, Healthful Eggs for Health! [Re: Green Cochoa]
kland Offline
SDA
Active Member 2017

4500+ Member
Registered: 10/28/08
Posts: 4996
Loc: Midland
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Quail eggs, chicken eggs, duck eggs, ants' eggs (usually of the red fire ant variety)--these are some of the "egg" products locals consume regularly. Only the first two in the list would I recommend. I understand the latter two to be unclean. Ants eat anything--even filthy carcases of animals!
Quail eggs, chicken eggs - OK.
Duck eggs, ant eggs - not OK.

Quote:
Of course, God, who made the list we see in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14, knew all this. From the tone of your post, you seem to be questioning His wisdom in declaring chickens clean.
Ummm, Green, you said God declared chickens to be clean.

Could you show where?
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#183397 - 04/21/17 06:55 PM Re: Healthy, Healthful Eggs for Health! [Re: kland]
Green Cochoa Offline

Group: Admin Team
5500+ Member
Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 6475
Loc: The Orient
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Quail eggs, chicken eggs, duck eggs, ants' eggs (usually of the red fire ant variety)--these are some of the "egg" products locals consume regularly. Only the first two in the list would I recommend. I understand the latter two to be unclean. Ants eat anything--even filthy carcases of animals!
Quail eggs, chicken eggs - OK.
Duck eggs, ant eggs - not OK.

Quote:
Of course, God, who made the list we see in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14, knew all this. From the tone of your post, you seem to be questioning His wisdom in declaring chickens clean.
Ummm, Green, you said God declared chickens to be clean.

Could you show where?


kland,

Read Deuteronomy.

Originally Posted By: The Holy Bible
14:11 Of all clean birds ye shall eat.
14:12 But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the osprey,
14:13 And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,
14:14 And every raven after his kind,
14:15 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckoo, and the hawk after his kind,
14:16 The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,
14:17 And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant,
14:18 And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
14:19 And every creeping thing that flieth [is] unclean unto you: they shall not be eaten.
14:20 But of all clean fowls ye may eat.


If you do not see chickens in the list above, then they are expressly declared clean by God. And here's more:

Originally Posted By: The Holy Bible
22:6 If a bird's nest chance to be before thee in the way in any tree, or on the ground, whether they be young ones, or eggs, and the dam sitting upon the young, or upon the eggs, thou shalt not take the dam with the young:
22:7 But thou shalt in any wise let the dam go, and take the young to thee; that it may be well with thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days.


Job, a righteous man, ate eggs.

Originally Posted By: Job
6:6 Can that which is unsavoury be eaten without salt? or is there any taste in the white of an egg?
_________________________
Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong. -- Thomas Jefferson
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#183432 - 04/24/17 11:10 AM Re: Healthy, Healthful Eggs for Health! [Re: Green Cochoa]
kland Offline
SDA
Active Member 2017

4500+ Member
Registered: 10/28/08
Posts: 4996
Loc: Midland
Green, you're saying if something is not explicitly forbidden, it is expressly declared ok by God. Guess you're saying smoking God expressly declares as ok to do. And you're also saying in the next statement that "bird" means "chicken". Not true.

Do you see the California Condor listed as being unclean?
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