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Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183494
04/28/17 05:15 PM
04/28/17 05:15 PM
K
kland  Offline
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How about neither of "His" but what it means to the universe. That is we shouldn't focus on His resurrection, nor His sufferings, but what they mean, what it accomplishes, what it means to suffer or be willing to suffer for our faith as He did.

Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183499
04/29/17 03:11 AM
04/29/17 03:11 AM
dedication  Offline
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Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
Originally Posted By: dedication

Remember in another thread you mentioned;

Arguments that use truth to prove an untruth?

That is exactly what was, and still is being done with the glorious truth of the resurrection of Christ, it is being used to prove an untruth!

In your last post you quoted:
"It is only in the light of the cross that we can discern the exalted character of the law of God. The soul palsied by sin can be endowed with life only through the work wrought out upon the cross by the Author of our salvation.--Manuscript 31, 1890. {7ABC 458.1}

Add to that:
"The cross of Christ testifies to the immutability of the law of God--testifies that God so loved us that He gave His Son to die for our sins; ... God's moral standard could not be changed to meet man in his fallen condition. {1SM 312.2}

Yet how has this been reversed in the Christian world?
Of course, you do state some truth about something I posted in another topic, which I appreciate. Thank you.

It should be noted that since i started this topic, I should be the one who knows for sure why i started it and what my intentions are. There simply is no need for further debate on this. I underlined in red above the question I did not once ask; to illustrate what I mean specifically by that. smile



Why is there no need to discuss why, since the cross shows the immutability of the law of God, it is now, in the Christian world, being used to belittle the law of God?

Just because someone starts a thread they can't really expect that other ideas and questions then those they originally had in mind, are not allowed in the discussion on the subject.

Yes, I did ask the question that you put in red and dismissed as unworthy for discussion. The two EGW quotes I referred to were in line with what you posted in the post just above my reply.

Why do you think such a question is off topic?

The truth of the cross and resurrection in the world today have been used to teach untruths. The MEANING of the cross and resurrection has been distorted in the Christian world.

Maybe in understanding these it gives some serious answers to what you were wondering about in your OP.


Originally Posted By: the Wanderer


It did get me to thinking about something though. I always enjoy any focus on the resurrection, but most years, I am left wondering why so much focus on the resurrection, with so little focus on the crucifixion, or the life of our Lord?


Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183501
04/29/17 04:35 AM
04/29/17 04:35 AM
dedication  Offline
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The cross --

Jesus suffered for our sins, He took our sins and transgressions upon Himself and died the death we deserved, that we might have the life He deserves.

Isaiah 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
53:7 for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD JEHOVAH to bruise him; he has put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

1 Cor 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:



Galatians 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.




As we come to Christ and accept Him --


Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:
6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
6:13 Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God.



Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183509
04/30/17 12:04 AM
04/30/17 12:04 AM
dedication  Offline
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Comments on Romans 6

Do we believe that when we were baptized that--
“I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me” (Gal 2:20)?

Do we now count ourselves dead to sin -- “The self you loathe is there on the Cross in Christ.”

Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Do we now reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive for Christ?

If we could only grasp and believe this truth what a change it would make in our lives.

Would we stop trying to reform the old man because the old man is dead, and simply start living for Christ with our whole hearts, because we are now alive in Him?

Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183510
04/30/17 12:13 AM
04/30/17 12:13 AM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: The Wanderer

1) "the power of His resurrection..."
2) "the fellowship of His sufferings..."

Which of these two should we focus on more and why? What should each of these two phrases should manifest most in our daily life, and how should that look to the outside world?
If the cross does not find an influence in its favor, it creates an influence. Through generation succeeding generation, the truth for this time is revealed as present truth. Christ on the cross was the medium whereby mercy and truth met together, and righteousness and peace kissed each other. This is the means that is to move the world.-- Manuscript 56, 1899. {7ABC 457.5}

There is one great central truth to be kept ever before the mind in the searching of the Scriptures--Christ and Him crucified. Every other truth is invested with influence and power corresponding to its relation to this theme. It is only in the light of the cross that we can discern the exalted character of the law of God. The soul palsied by sin can be endowed with life only through the work wrought out upon the cross by the Author of our salvation.--Manuscript 31, 1890. {7ABC 458.1}


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183516
04/30/17 07:15 PM
04/30/17 07:15 PM
dedication  Offline
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Which should be our focus?

Both!

Without the suffering and the cross, their would be no "power of resurrection".
Without the resurrection Christ's death on the cross would be in vain for death would still be the end.


Applying the events to us -- as Romans 6 does.
We too, through Christ, must suffer death to sin, that we might rise to newness of life in Him.

We must believe that when we accepted Christ and were baptized the "old man" was crucified with Christ.
We must reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive in Christ.

A question --
Yes, the cross is to be central, also
the three angel's messages are the special and urgent last day warning which we are to proclaim to the world.

Do you see the two combined?
How?

How does our daily focus on the last scenes of Christ's life on earth prepare us to stand in the last days?

Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183529
05/03/17 01:37 PM
05/03/17 01:37 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Dedication, I read an article in the paper about a church maintaining people sitting with the "eucharist" throughout the night, 24 hours a day. One was asked why, what does he do? He replied,
I look at Him,
and He looks back at me.

Should our focus be on His suffering and death?
Or should it be in what it accomplishes?
How can one be careful it doesn't transition into worshiping a eucharist?

Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183534
05/03/17 06:28 PM
05/03/17 06:28 PM
APL  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
The festivals of the Hebrews started with Passover (the sacrifice) and then first fruits (resurrection), but when on to Pentecost, Trumpets, Day of Atonement and Shelters. Christians have screwed up Passover and the Resurrection by their Easter holiday, and for the most part ignore the rest. They declare that we have only to believe on Jesus Christ, and that faith is all-sufficient: that the righteousness of Christ is to be the sinner's credentials; that this imputed righteousness fulfills the law for us, and that we are under no obligation to obey the law of God. This class claim that Christ came to save sinners, and that He has saved them. "I am saved," they will repeat over and over again. But are they saved while transgressing the law of Jehovah?--No; for the garments of Christ's righteousness are not a cloak for iniquity. Such teaching is a gross deception, and Christ becomes to these persons a stumbling block as He did to the Jews,--to the Jews, because they would not receive Him as their personal Saviour, to these professed believers in Christ, because they separate Christ and the law, and regard faith as a substitute for obedience. They separate the Father and the Son, the Saviour of the world. Virtually they teach, both by precept and example, that Christ, by His death, saves men in their transgressions. {BEcho, February 8, 1897 par. 7}


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: kland] #183537
05/04/17 02:12 AM
05/04/17 02:12 AM
dedication  Offline
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Originally Posted By: kland
Dedication, I read an article in the paper about a church maintaining people sitting with the "eucharist" throughout the night, 24 hours a day. One was asked why, what does he do? He replied,
I look at Him,
and He looks back at me.

Should our focus be on His suffering and death?
Or should it be in what it accomplishes?
How can one be careful it doesn't transition into worshiping a eucharist?


Again my answer would be "both".
Both what happened in the past, and what it accomplished.

Of course, that does not include staring at a wafer thinking that is Jesus -- that is an abomination of idol worship, thinking they can create Christ in a wafer and then adore the wafer.
Nor is it in having crosses everywhere -- treating them like a "good luck charm".

But we do need to focus on those final days of Christ's life on earth.

The beloved commander of heaven, living in the glorious palaces of God's throne, the One Who created and sustained the universe -- would come to this dark, dismal world and suffer and die -- why would He lower Himself to such an enormous extent?


"And when I think, that God, His Son not sparing;
Sent Him to die, I scarce can take it in;
That on the Cross, my burden gladly bearing,
He bled and died to take away my sin."

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son . . . (John 3:16).
•“But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8).
•“I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me” (Galatians 2:20).
•“This is love; not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins” (1 John 4:10, NIV).

The cross is love in verity. The cross is God motivated by love that surpasses anything we have known. He has such love for the sinner, to rescue him from eternal death and open the door to eternal life!

He left the splendor of heaven
Knowing his destiny
Was the lonely hill of Golgotha
There to lay down his life for me

And if that isn't love
Then the ocean is dry
There's no stars in the sky
And the sparrows can't fly
If that isn't love


There is no stronger and lifechanging power than "love".
"We love Him because He first loved us."
When we comprehend His love for us, it subdues the heart and draws us to Him.

Countless martyrs would rather die, than deny the One who was willing to suffer so much for them -- they didn't mind dying for their faith simply because Jesus loved them and died for them, that they might have eternal life! If He, the Prince of heaven would do that for them, they won't shrink under pressure but for His name sake endure persecution, even if it meant their lives.

No, we are not simply to focus on the "suffering" -- the violence and cruelty is to be known but it is not the central issue. Nor is there any merit in inflicting suffering upon ourselves.
However, when we realize that Christ suffered and died for us -- for me -- unworthy, stumbling me that has misrepresented Him so many times -- it melts the heart!
It motivates us to love and obey Him, no matter if that leads to suffering, our main desire is to be molded into His image and be with Him for eternity.

As messengers of life, giving the three angels messages to a dying world, we must point people to Jesus and magnify the love of God in giving His Son that we may live.
We must expound the love that enabled Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane to say, "Not my will but thine be done". He realized these people, whom He loved would not be lost, but be saved if He drank the bitter cup of suffering, shame, and death.

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Quote:
"What is that joy? "Who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God" (Hebrews 12:2). The joy of seeing souls redeemed, souls eternally saved, is the privilege of those who have overcome obstacles in order to put their feet in the footprints of Him who said, "Follow me." {HP 300.4}


It was love that held Jesus to the cross.

He could have called ten thousand angels
To destroy the world and set him free
He could have called ten thousand angels
But he died alone, for you and me

Calvary is a love story -- The Creator paid the extreme price to save His beloved and redeem her as His companion for eternity.

Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183538
05/04/17 05:01 AM
05/04/17 05:01 AM
dedication  Offline
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The cross demonstrates God's love.

The cross also offers the key to victory.

Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Link that verse with other texts previously quoted --
Like Romans 6 --
6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

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