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"With clouds he covereth the light; and commandeth it not to shine by the cloud that cometh betwixt." (Job 36:32, KJV) When The Clouds Go By
Sometimes, God just seems so far away. Its a fact that many of us tend to resist, as if, somehow, experiencing this is a display of "fear" "inadequacy," "anger" "doubt" and many other such things. Guilt and grief can assault us all through events beyond our control. But how does God get so far away during our troubling times? Why do Christians struggle so with feelings of distance and isolation from God? Is God really ready to bring meaning, and hope to our deepest hurts and our least understood emotions? Do the clouds of our experience block out the Light of His presence? Isn't it true, that God sometimes, quite simply, "fails" us? - The Wanderer
Last edited by The Wanderer; 05/25/1710:05 AM.
"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."
Isn't it true, that God sometimes, quite simply, "fails" us? - The Wanderer
Huge question, Wanderer. Do you really want to go there...?
I think part of the picture is "What can one legitimately expect from God?" The Bible has promises of all kinds of wonderful things. If these things do not materialize in our lives as Christians,...Sorry, I see this as a failure.
You may want to continue this discussion as a PM. Otherwise be prepared for a whole lot of insensitive, hurtful people telling you about your lack of faith, dangerous heretical theology, and outright arrogant stupidity and defiance of God.
Your call.
"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
Isn't it true, that God sometimes, quite simply, "fails" us?
If we believe God "fails" us...then in essence we believe the Lord is a sinner. Failing us or "failing to hit the target" with us is both "to miss" somehow. In Hebrew, "to miss" is the proper definition of "sin" -- Khatah (H2398).
The definition of "sin" as "to miss the target" comes out here :
Jud 20:16 "Among all this people there were seven hundred chosen men lefthanded; every one could sling stones at an hair breadth, and not miss(Khatah).
Also Paul brings the Hebrew definition of Khatah (sin, to miss) in Rom 3:23 by saying "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"
It is a picture of an archer trying to hit the mark. But the arrows "fall short" of hitting the target. The target is “the glory of God” which is His nature & character that is expressed in His word or law.
So just because all of us sinners, by which all of our arrows has "fall short" from hitting the perfect mark of God ..... does this mean that the Lord will not succeed in getting us to hit that target perfectly in the future?
Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
Do the clouds of our experience block out the Light of His presenceglory?
Notice that Job 36:32 says that it is the Lord that covereth the light with clouds. Very important to keep this detail in our mind while pondering on this text.
So yes, "the clouds of our experience" [that the Lord has brought into our lives] "block out the Light".
I wouldn't say "of His presence" at the end of that statement. Your wording is not inaccurate; but because of the negative connotation we assign to it....I would replace it. I do believe the Lord is always with us, no matter who we are, there's nothing that can separate us from the Love of God. So, I would replace that section with "of His glory". My view, is the Lord is always with all of us, but for most of us He will prevent us to see "of His glory" with those "clouds of our experience" that He moves in front "of His glory".
I believe He is doing this for our own protection until the perfect TIME has arrived for us to see His glory (by which also equates of us being closer to His presence). This same illustration is seen in the Sanctuary where there's 3 veils (which is our flesh or in this application "clouds of our experience") that stops us from seeing His full glory. These veils prevents us from entering in the next chamber too soon and come closer to God before it is time for us to do so.
Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
Quote:
"With clouds he covereth the light; and commandeth it not to shine by the cloud that cometh betwixt." (Job 36:32, KJV) When The Clouds Go By
Sometimes, God just seems so far away. Its a fact that many of us tend to resist, as if, somehow, experiencing this is a display of "fear" "inadequacy," "anger" "doubt" and many other such things. Guilt and grief can assault us all through events beyond our control. But how does God get so far away during our troubling times? Why do Christians struggle so with feelings of distance and isolation from God? Is God really ready to bring meaning, and hope to our deepest hurts and our least understood emotions? Do the clouds of our experience block out the Light of His presence? Isn't it true, that God sometimes, quite simply, "fails" us? - The Wanderer
Blessings
Re: When The Clouds Go By
[Re: Elle]
#183796 05/25/1705:44 PM05/25/1705:44 PM
Yes, all are welcome to comment. No matter what your opinions, I am seeking to learn how others think and respond to such questions and situations. Note: in doing so, I am not saying I believe everything I will ask or post. I may play "devil's advocate" a bit in this thread. I believe ts an important topic. I will reply to above comments a little later.
"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."
Isn't it true, that God sometimes, quite simply, "fails" us? - The Wanderer
Huge question, Wanderer. Do you really want to go there...?
I think part of the picture is "What can one legitimately expect from God?" The Bible has promises of all kinds of wonderful things. If these things do not materialize in our lives as Christians,...Sorry, I see this as a failure.
You may want to continue this discussion as a PM. Otherwise be prepared for a whole lot of insensitive, hurtful people telling you about your lack of faith, dangerous heretical theology, and outright arrogant stupidity and defiance of God.
Your call.
Yes, I am fine with "going there," and thats the very reason I posted this. I am attempting to discuss a struggle that many have.
"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."
Jesus never fails Jesus never fails heaven and earth may pass away, but Jesus never fails.
Friends and Family may fail us Teachers and leaders may fail us pastors and spouses may fail us society and health may fail us the laws of the land may fail us our ability to care for ourselves may fail us all things of earth may fail us
But Jesus never fails.
God has not promised skies always blue, Flower-strewn pathways all our lives through; God has not promised sun without rain, Joy without sorrow, peace without pain.
God has not promised we shall not know Toil and temptation, trouble and woe; He has not told us we shall not bear Many a burden, many a care.
3 God has not promised smooth roads and wide, Swift, easy travel, needing no guide; Never a mountain, rocky and steep, Never a river, turbid and deep.
BUT But God has promised strength for the day, Rest for the labor, light for the way, Grace for the trials, help from above, Unfailing sympathy, undying love.
Sometimes, God just seems so far away. Its a fact that many of us tend to resist, as if, somehow, experiencing this is a display of "fear" "inadequacy," "anger" "doubt" and many other such things. Guilt and grief can assault us all through events beyond our control. But how does God get so far away during our troubling times? Why do Christians struggle so with feelings of distance and isolation from God? Is God really ready to bring meaning, and hope to our deepest hurts and our least understood emotions? Do the clouds of our experience block out the Light of His presence? Isn't it true, that God sometimes, quite simply, "fails" us? - The Wanderer
That is a question we all need to seriously consider. We've probably all been there at some point or other, and the question "why?" Why do we feel distance from God at a time we need Him most.
I've asked myself, if I feel so "alone" in these "small trial" which seem so huge, how will I cling to my Savior when the time of trouble comes? If I lose my grip on His strength and love, now, how will I hold fast to Him in the great time of trouble?
Those trials may be wake-up calls to alert us that when things are pretty good, we tend to walk in our own strength and neglect building that close relationship of trust in our Savior.
The answer I have found is that these small trials are allowed to come to draw us closer to totally dependence upon Christ -- not push us away. He gives the strength to get through, His love supports us, we need to build that trust.
That is the "faith of Jesus" spoken of in Revelation. Jesus, in His humanity, completed trusted in the Father. And when upon the cross feeling excruciating pain, falsely accused, terribly mistreated, feeling an enormous burden of guilt crushing Him (not His own but bearing ours), feeling deserted by God the Father, yet His faith clung to God, His faith in God and that all things will work out for good to them that trust in Him carried Him through!
The faith of Jesus -- "Here is the endurance of the saints who keep God's commandments and have the faith of Jesus." Rev. 14:12
Jb 36:32 "With clouds he covereth the light; and commandeth it [not to shine] by [the cloud], that cometh betwixt."
"Do the clouds of our experience block out the Light of His presence glory? Isn't it true, that God sometimes, quite simply, "fails" us?
See if I understand your points, dedication!
First, dedication's point : Jesus never fails and He supplies us all that we need. [my summary taken from dedication 1st post]
Originally Posted By: dedication
Jesus never fails..... But God has promised strength for the day, Rest for the labor, light for the way, Grace for the trials, help from above, Unfailing sympathy, undying love.
So dedication, if we fail... well it's not Jesus failure.... for He gave us all that we needed to succeed. Am I understanding your point?
Second dedication's point; these "clouds" is to build in us the same "faith of Jesus".
Originally Posted By: dedication
The answer I have found is that these small trials are allowed to come to draw us closer to totally dependence upon Christ -- not push us away. He gives the strength to get through, His love supports us, we need to build that trust.
That is the "faith of Jesus" spoken of in Revelation. Jesus, in His humanity, completed trusted in the Father. And when upon the cross feeling excruciating pain, falsely accused, terribly mistreated, feeling an enormous burden of guilt crushing Him (not His own but bearing ours), feeling deserted by God the Father, yet His faith clung to God, His faith in God and that all things will work out for good to them that trust in Him carried Him through!
The faith of Jesus -- "Here is the endurance of the saints who keep God's commandments and have the faith of Jesus." Rev. 14:12
So are you implying that if we don't make it....well the failure is all ours for we didn't have the "faith of Jesus"?
the wanderer & nadi, do you agree with dedication's points?
Blessings
Re: When The Clouds Go By
[Re: Elle]
#183809 05/26/1709:06 AM05/26/1709:06 AM
Jb 36:32 "With clouds he covereth the light; and commandeth it [not to shine] by [the cloud], that cometh betwixt."
"Do the clouds of our experience block out the Light of His presence glory? Isn't it true, that God sometimes, quite simply, "fails" us?
See if I understand your points, dedication!
First, dedication's point : Jesus never fails and He supplies us all that we need. [my summary taken from dedication 1st post]
Originally Posted By: dedication
Jesus never fails..... But God has promised strength for the day, Rest for the labor, light for the way, Grace for the trials, help from above, Unfailing sympathy, undying love.
So dedication, if we fail... well it's not Jesus failure.... for He gave us all that we needed to succeed. Am I understanding your point?
Second dedication's point; these "clouds" is to build in us the same "faith of Jesus".
Originally Posted By: dedication
The answer I have found is that these small trials are allowed to come to draw us closer to totally dependence upon Christ -- not push us away. He gives the strength to get through, His love supports us, we need to build that trust.
That is the "faith of Jesus" spoken of in Revelation. Jesus, in His humanity, completed trusted in the Father. And when upon the cross feeling excruciating pain, falsely accused, terribly mistreated, feeling an enormous burden of guilt crushing Him (not His own but bearing ours), feeling deserted by God the Father, yet His faith clung to God, His faith in God and that all things will work out for good to them that trust in Him carried Him through!
The faith of Jesus -- "Here is the endurance of the saints who keep God's commandments and have the faith of Jesus." Rev. 14:12
So are you implying that if we don't make it....well the failure is all ours for we didn't have the "faith of Jesus"?
the wanderer & nadi, do you agree with dedication's points?
God never fails us! The Father, His Son Jesus and the Holy Spirit have gone to great lengths to insure the human race knows of the plan of salvation, understands God's standard of judgment and understands the way to be saved and spared destruction.
We are the ones that fail God.
We must get this straight.
Re: When The Clouds Go By
[Re: Elle]
#183812 05/26/1701:56 PM05/26/1701:56 PM
the wanderer & nadi, do you agree with dedication's points?
"If the clouds are full of rain, they empty themselves on the earth, and if a tree falls to the south or to the north, in the place where the tree falls, there it will lie." He who observes the wind will not sow, and he who regards the clouds will not reap." (Eccl 11:3-4, ESV)
Last edited by The Wanderer; 05/26/1701:57 PM.
"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."
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