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Re: Protestants renounce Protestantism [Re: Nadi] #184100
06/13/17 01:13 AM
06/13/17 01:13 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2018

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: Nadi
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: dedication
2. Protestants failure to break with "tradition" over "sola scripture".
The Adventist church is also involved in using a lot of tradition instead of Bible teaching! It is sad.

I really don't want to start a fight here, and with all due respect to sincere SDAs, but does no one else understand these points?

The SDA church can not rightly condemn the RCC for holding to Scripture and Tradition when they hold so strongly to EGW, no matter how they "spin" her.

The Seventh-day Adventist church IS NOT a Bible and Bible only church. This puts them DIRECTLY in bed with the Catholic Church. Sorry.


You are absolutely wrong about the Seventh-day Adventist Church Nadi. This message is by far the most Biblical understanding of the everlasting Gospel on the planet earth.

We are Bible and Bible only. The Bible completely supports that prophetic writings of Ellen G. White, in case that is the point you are concerned about.

Re: Protestants renounce Protestantism [Re: Alchemy] #184102
06/13/17 04:08 AM
06/13/17 04:08 AM
N
Nadi  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2020
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 288
Canada
"YOUR saying so don't make it so." Tom Sawyer.


"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
Re: Protestants renounce Protestantism [Re: Alchemy] #184110
06/13/17 03:03 PM
06/13/17 03:03 PM
N
Nadi  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2020
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 288
Canada
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
The Bible completely supports that prophetic writings of Ellen G. White, in case that is the point you are concerned about.


Very concerned about this point, because...
Shouldn't it be the other way around? EGW should support the Bible, rather than the Bible supporting EGW...

Like I said. SDA has their "authority" in the wrong place, same as the RCC.


"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
Re: Protestants renounce Protestantism [Re: Nadi] #184114
06/13/17 06:28 PM
06/13/17 06:28 PM
G
Garywk  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
Originally Posted By: Nadi
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
The Bible completely supports that prophetic writings of Ellen G. White, in case that is the point you are concerned about.


Very concerned about this point, because...
Shouldn't it be the other way around? EGW should support the Bible, rather than the Bible supporting EGW...

Like I said. SDA has their "authority" in the wrong place, same as the RCC.


Why should that be a point you should be "very concerned" about? If Ellen White supports the Bible, then the inverse is true also: the Bible supports Ellen White. If Ellen White didn't support the Bible then the Bible would not, could not, support her writings for her writings would not support what the Bible says.

You're making a mountain out of semantics as if Ellen White says A on any subject and the Bible says B about the same subject neither would support the other. On the other hand, if Ellen White says B on some subject and the Bible says B on the same subject then Ellen White supports the Bible, and the Bible supports Ellen White.

This is just elementary logic.

Re: Protestants renounce Protestantism [Re: ] #184120
06/14/17 01:17 AM
06/14/17 01:17 AM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: Gary K
Originally Posted By: Nadi
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
The Bible completely supports that prophetic writings of Ellen G. White, in case that is the point you are concerned about.


Very concerned about this point, because...
Shouldn't it be the other way around? EGW should support the Bible, rather than the Bible supporting EGW...

Like I said. SDA has their "authority" in the wrong place, same as the RCC.


Why should that be a point you should be "very concerned" about? If Ellen White supports the Bible, then the inverse is true also: the Bible supports Ellen White. If Ellen White didn't support the Bible then the Bible would not, could not, support her writings for her writings would not support what the Bible says.

You're making a mountain out of semantics as if Ellen White says A on any subject and the Bible says B about the same subject neither would support the other. On the other hand, if Ellen White says B on some subject and the Bible says B on the same subject then Ellen White supports the Bible, and the Bible supports Ellen White.

This is just elementary logic.

The problem is that many of our Church interpretations and many of the so call "writings of Ellen White" (as we do not know if what we have does come from Ellen's pens, or if anything got change a little, and etc...) does not agree with what the Bible says.

Reality is we are very FAR from being a SOLA SCRIPTURE church....

I have seen during the past decade while studying here on this forum while testing our SDA beliefs with scriptures like Ellen and James White encouraged us to do many times--- that most of what we believe are nothing more than teachings of MEN. And I can provide links to many discussions showing that.

Don't get me wrong, I have much respect for Ellen; however, our Church did us and her a dis-service by putting so much emphasis on "her" words and the opinions of the pioneers as infallible. Our Church declares that it is all "truth" and nothing should be changed. This prevents all of us to grow in Christ while making us look like unbalanced and quite deceived in front of others. I know I'be been there for 25 years. Not a good witness at all. And not good at all for our personal spiritual health either.


Blessings
Re: Protestants renounce Protestantism [Re: ] #184121
06/14/17 02:59 AM
06/14/17 02:59 AM
N
Nadi  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2020
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 288
Canada
Originally Posted By: Gary K
If Ellen White supports the Bible, then the inverse is true also: the Bible supports Ellen White. If Ellen White didn't support the Bible then the Bible would not, could not, support her writings for her writings would not support what the Bible says.


Yes...
Although I no longer believe either that EGW supports the Bible or the Bible supports EGW...

Upon further reflection I believe the above statement is closer to reality and the order in which we "put support" is, by and large, interchangeable.

I come to this conclusion because I am one who requires support for an argument, so I ask "where is your support for this idea?" and then one turns to the Bible or history or some other source for support.

Your point stands.


"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
Re: Protestants renounce Protestantism [Re: ] #184137
06/15/17 02:05 PM
06/15/17 02:05 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: Gary K
Originally Posted By: Nadi
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
The Bible completely supports that prophetic writings of Ellen G. White, in case that is the point you are concerned about.


Very concerned about this point, because...
Shouldn't it be the other way around? EGW should support the Bible, rather than the Bible supporting EGW...

Like I said. SDA has their "authority" in the wrong place, same as the RCC.


Why should that be a point you should be "very concerned" about? If Ellen White supports the Bible, then the inverse is true also: the Bible supports Ellen White. If Ellen White didn't support the Bible then the Bible would not, could not, support her writings for her writings would not support what the Bible says.

You're making a mountain out of semantics as if Ellen White says A on any subject and the Bible says B about the same subject neither would support the other. On the other hand, if Ellen White says B on some subject and the Bible says B on the same subject then Ellen White supports the Bible, and the Bible supports Ellen White.

This is just elementary logic.

The point of concern was the claim by Alchemy that "the Bible completely supports that(sic) prophetic writings of Ellen G. White". Shouldn't it be the other way around? And if so, would it be different and acceptable?

  • It would be different. To say that the Bible supports EGW is NOT the same as saying that EGW supports the Bible. Nadi's whole point was to establish the greater authority which is, unquestionably, the Bible. It would be necessary therefore for this greater authority (the Bible) to give legitimacy to (i.e. "support") the writings of EGW; and not the other way around.
     
  • Secondly, the writings of EGW though described by SDA as "prophetic" actually prophesy falsely (i.e. contrary to the Bible); and are therefore NOT entirely supported by it. They are not all grounded in it. They do not all spring from it. Many (though they masquerade otherwise) simply cannot be found at all in it.

Those are the facts.

///


Re: Protestants renounce Protestantism [Re: ] #184138
06/15/17 04:29 PM
06/15/17 04:29 PM
N
Nadi  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2020
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 288
Canada
Originally Posted By: Gary K
You're making a mountain out of semantics as if Ellen White says A on any subject and the Bible says B about the same subject neither would support the other.


In my experience and opinion this is exactly what she does. So we disagree on this point.

Unfortunately, many SDAs go through extreme mental and theological contortions to force a (non-existent) "harmony" between Scripture and EGW. I used to do this until I realized that the thread of logic was so thin as to be absent. I then started to read and understand the Bible for what it actually said and not for what I was told it was saying.

This was enlightening, to say the least. You should try it.


"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
Re: Protestants renounce Protestantism [Re: Nadi] #184139
06/15/17 04:32 PM
06/15/17 04:32 PM
N
Nadi  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2020
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 288
Canada
I also found it informative to look at a passage and note what it DID NOT say.


"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
Re: Protestants renounce Protestantism [Re: Nadi] #184147
06/16/17 01:52 PM
06/16/17 01:52 PM
G
Garywk  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
Originally Posted By: Nadi
Originally Posted By: Gary K
You're making a mountain out of semantics as if Ellen White says A on any subject and the Bible says B about the same subject neither would support the other.


In my experience and opinion this is exactly what she does. So we disagree on this point.

Unfortunately, many SDAs go through extreme mental and theological contortions to force a (non-existent) "harmony" between Scripture and EGW. I used to do this until I realized that the thread of logic was so thin as to be absent. I then started to read and understand the Bible for what it actually said and not for what I was told it was saying.

This was enlightening, to say the least. You should try it.


What I bolded above is what I always do in studying the Bible. I also follow that principle in all things I study.

My only "agenda" is to know truth. I have been this way ever since I was a little kid and my insistence on truth and honesty got me whipped, mocked, scorned, abused, etc... but I thank God that He put that burning desire so deeply within me that nothing could ever extinguish it. Truth is worth both living and dying for. I know of nothing else that even comes close to it in value.

Last edited by Gary K; 06/16/17 01:54 PM.
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