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Re: Is Ben Carson Right? [Re: The Wanderer] #183906
05/31/17 06:35 PM
05/31/17 06:35 PM
G
Garywk  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
Originally Posted By: Gary K
dedication,

It is true that it is harder today than it was when I was young, but it is still possible. If men such as Frederick Douglass and Booker T. Washington could rise out of poverty after being born into slavery with the overt racism of that day, it can still be done today. It just takes the same kind of effort and sacrifice those men put forth to improve themselves.

If you read their stories you will see just how much they differ from the poor blacks and whites of today. Those men asked for nothing but the chance to stand on their own two feet. They didn't ask for something for nothing. They despised something-for-nothing and recognized it as being destructive to self-respect and dignity, and the prospect of making a success out of their lives. Their state-of-mind was not even similar to what the government has taught people to think today.
Blaming the government for HOW people are thinking is just another pile of dead bones. There are plenty of poor people who do not think like the government wants them to


Really? Let's take a look at what goes on on college, high school, and even middle school campuses anymore. A bunch of eighth graders just refused to have their picture taken with a Republican politician. Why? They hate the ideas Republicans stand for. College students are highly opposed to the 2nd amendment. They demonstrate against it quite often. They even riot over the free expression of ideas that they disagree with. They say blacks shouldn't even have to pay for their education because their ancestors were slaves. They are a direct reflection of what the media and the government, through the federal department of education, has been teaching them for the last few decades. They push the LGBT agenda in every way possible, and anyone who says that is wrong is attacked viciously. Schools are fast becoming centers of fascism, not freedom of expression. School administrators are banning private prayer, the Bible, almost everything to do with Christianity while pushing Islamic beliefs, etc.... These are all the things the leftist politicians have been pushing for years, and getting highly aggressive about since Obama was first elected. Not getting an abortion is considered too controversial to even discuss on school campuses anymore.

I have read posts of yours that were in favor of many of these things. So don't even imagine that I have assumed anything from only one or two posts of yours. You have expressed your leftist ideas again and again online.

Re: Is Ben Carson Right? [Re: ] #183907
05/31/17 08:25 PM
05/31/17 08:25 PM
N
Nadi  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2020
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 288
Canada
Originally Posted By: Gary K
Really? Let's take a look at what goes on on college, high school, and even middle school campuses anymore. A bunch of eighth graders just refused to have their picture taken with a Republican politician. Why? They hate the ideas Republicans stand for. College students are highly opposed to the 2nd amendment. They demonstrate against it quite often. They even riot over the free expression of ideas that they disagree with. They say blacks shouldn't even have to pay for their education because their ancestors were slaves. They are a direct reflection of what the media and the government, through the federal department of education, has been teaching them for the last few decades. They push the LGBT agenda in every way possible, and anyone who says that is wrong is attacked viciously. Schools are fast becoming centers of fascism, not freedom of expression. School administrators are banning private prayer, the Bible, almost everything to do with Christianity while pushing Islamic beliefs, etc.... These are all the things the leftist politicians have been pushing for years, and getting highly aggressive about since Obama was first elected. Not getting an abortion is considered too controversial to even discuss on school campuses anymore.

I have read posts of yours that were in favor of many of these things. So don't even imagine that I have assumed anything from only one or two posts of yours. You have expressed your leftist ideas again and again online.

Quite a harsh and, in my experience, unwarranted condemnation of "...college, high school, and even middle school campuses..." Although these things do undoubtedly occur, I do not see them as either normal or universal. There are thousands of schools where these things do not occur, and free speech and tolerance is promoted.

It is unfortunate to paint an entire group (ie: "college students") based on the behavior of some, or claim that "anyone" who says otherwise is "viciously attacked." Undoubtedly some are. But when I read statements like the above I see a very strong, non-negotiable bias.


"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
Re: Is Ben Carson Right? [Re: ] #183910
06/01/17 03:15 AM
06/01/17 03:15 AM
dedication  Offline
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,411
Canada
Originally Posted By: Gary K
dedication,

It is true that it is harder today than it was when I was young, but it is still possible. If men such as Frederick Douglass and Booker T. Washington could rise out of poverty after being born into slavery with the overt racism of that day, it can still be done today. It just takes the same kind of effort and sacrifice those men put forth to improve themselves.

If you read their stories you will see just how much they differ from the poor blacks and whites of today. Those men asked for nothing but the chance to stand on their own two feet. They didn't ask for something for nothing. They despised something-for-nothing and recognized it as being destructive to self-respect and dignity, and the prospect of making a success out of their lives. Their state-of-mind was not even similar to what the government has taught people to think today.


Agree!
It is still possible.
As a Canadian I've seen it more in the "native" populations.
The government played a big hand in destroying the drive and self respect of the natives -- placing them on reserves, giving them houses, and all sorts of benefits, yet so many have basically just "given up". All those benefits and they are living in poverty and their suicide rate is extremely high.

Yet, not all -- there are "natives" who are thrifty and have studied and worked to lift themselves out of the despondency, they established business, they have nice homes, jobs, and self respect, dignity and purpose.

What you wrote is very true.

Re: Is Ben Carson Right? [Re: ] #183911
06/01/17 04:59 AM
06/01/17 04:59 AM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
Originally Posted By: Gary K

I have read posts of yours that were in favor of many of these things. So don't even imagine that I have assumed anything from only one or two posts of yours. You have expressed your leftist ideas again and again online.
Regardless of what I am;it has nothing to do with the cause/s of poverty. What I am is not the topic of this thread. I have asked the question: "Is Ben Carson right?" When you can supply enough empirical evidence to show that he is right, people will be more inclined to believe your desperate ploy to sneeringly disparage my character. The more you do this, the more I believe I am right. Carson is wrong on this one. As a man of science, he is ignoring the realities of cause and effect in poverty. IMHO smile


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: Is Ben Carson Right? [Re: The Wanderer] #183912
06/01/17 05:17 AM
06/01/17 05:17 AM
dedication  Offline
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,411
Canada
Getting into the influence of the "educational system"!

To be honest I can only shake my head SMH at some of the things going on in our educational system.

Teachers are not supposed to fail, or give failing grades to their students even if the students don't do any work, and don't apply themselves, because it might destroy their "self esteem".
What are these so called educators thinking?
That's not building self respect, it's creating monsters who think the world owes them everything while they do nothing.

Then there is the big emphases on rewards to "motivate".
The students who are really into doing their work, get a sticker at the end. BUT the students who don't do their work are given rewards (often much bigger rewards) for every question they answer. Thus they get way more rewards for being difficult than the students who apply themselves to learning.



Again -- it's creating the mentality that the world owes them a living even if they do nothing.

Another problem in all this is students often are not taught to do something simply for the satisfaction of doing necessary tasks and learning tasks well. Too often school work or other essential work is done only for some reason unrelated to the task itself. Thus the task is done with minimal effort -- just enough to get by, to gain the "rewards" or "handouts" promised, rather than seeing value and dignity in the task itself.

Re: Is Ben Carson Right? [Re: Nadi] #183913
06/01/17 05:25 AM
06/01/17 05:25 AM
dedication  Offline
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,411
Canada
Originally Posted By: Nadi


There are thousands of schools where these things do not occur, and free speech and tolerance is promoted.


Now it is true " There are thousands of schools where .. free speech and tolerance is promoted."

But then we need to ask -- tolerance of what?
Free speech on what topics?

How about the one topic mentioned?

There are two groups:

Group one says alternate sexual lifestyles are normal, you must tolerate them.

Group two says: We will tolerate them in that we will not harm those who believe different from us, but we do not believe it is normal, it destroys the family structure, for the normal family is husband/wife and children. We believe the alternative sexual arrangements are wrong.

Group one says: group two is not tolerant, we will not tolerate intolerants. You many not express yourselves on this subject for that is being intolerant.

Group two says: But what we expressed is tolerance of something we do not believe in, we will not harm them. But you want more than tolerance -- You are imposing your view upon us expecting us to sanction your alternate lifestyles, and allow you to teach our children that it is normal, while we must not express our views. That is intolerance.

Group one: we will not tolerate intolerance

Group two: so you are the intolerant ones even though you teach tolerance and free speech, you will not tolerate or allow free speech to those who differ from your view point.

And thus what Gary wrote is by far more true than many realize:

"Schools are fast becoming centers of fascism, not freedom of expression. School administrators are banning private prayer, the Bible, almost everything to do with Christianity while pushing Islamic beliefs"

--- and spiritualistic beliefs -- what is celebrated in most public schools?
Halloween is big time with lots of goblins, witches, and gruesome stuff, celebrating death, skeletons, gravestones. Say anything that those things offend you, and you are said to be "intolerant".

Christmas has lots of santas reindeer, and elfs. As to the Nativity-- ah better not have Nativity, it might offend someone, and we must not offend anyone -- right?
(well those offended by Halloween decorations of witches and little devils with pitch fork decorations are intolerant, don't worry about offending their comfort)

For all the talk of "free speech" and tolerance, both are being compromised.

Re: Is Ben Carson Right? [Re: The Wanderer] #183917
06/01/17 04:02 PM
06/01/17 04:02 PM
G
Garywk  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
Originally Posted By: Gary K

I have read posts of yours that were in favor of many of these things. So don't even imagine that I have assumed anything from only one or two posts of yours. You have expressed your leftist ideas again and again online.
Regardless of what I am;it has nothing to do with the cause/s of poverty. What I am is not the topic of this thread. I have asked the question: "Is Ben Carson right?" When you can supply enough empirical evidence to show that he is right, people will be more inclined to believe your desperate ploy to sneeringly disparage my character. The more you do this, the more I believe I am right. Carson is wrong on this one. As a man of science, he is ignoring the realities of cause and effect in poverty. IMHO smile


Your view of Ben Carson's words has everything to do with your political philosophy. Your comments on him and your politics are inseparable.

Just where have I smeared your character? I have brought up only one person's character on this thread, and that was the character of John Maynard Keynes. I brought it up because his character has everything to do with his life and the economic fraud he perpetrated upon the world. All I have said about you is that your views are very much socialist in nature, and that is absolutely true. That you parrot what the left-wing media says is also true.

Have you ever studied economics? I have spent the last few years studying it. Not full time, but I have spent considerable time on the subject, as in hundreds of hours of study. I have a total of 100+ ebooks and collections of essays and articles made into ebooks by economists, plus I have read a half dozen or so paper books on the subject too. So, I am not writing from a position of ignorance and supposition, but from a position of far more knowledge of economics than is normally found outside of actual economists themselves. I have also read extensively on all sides of the political issues involved. How many hours of reading and study I have put into it I have no idea but it is probably close to the same number of hours I have spent on economics.

Being disabled and unable to work has left me with nothing but time on my hands and rather than spend that time uselessly I have devoted it to study for the last almost 20 years. Most days I spend more hours studying/reading than people spend working. They spend 40 hours a week working. I spend anywhere from 60-70 hours a week studying/reading.

Oh, and just so you know, I have also read a lot on psychology and sociology. Not as much as I have on economics and political philosophy, but still more than someone with a 4 year degree in those subjects. My interests are many and I am curious about just about everything so I read extensively on many subjects. I may only have 15 years of formal education, but I have spent many thousands of hours educating myself.

Re: Is Ben Carson Right? [Re: Nadi] #183920
06/01/17 04:35 PM
06/01/17 04:35 PM
G
Garywk  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
Originally Posted By: Nadi
Originally Posted By: Gary K
Really? Let's take a look at what goes on on college, high school, and even middle school campuses anymore. A bunch of eighth graders just refused to have their picture taken with a Republican politician. Why? They hate the ideas Republicans stand for. College students are highly opposed to the 2nd amendment. They demonstrate against it quite often. They even riot over the free expression of ideas that they disagree with. They say blacks shouldn't even have to pay for their education because their ancestors were slaves. They are a direct reflection of what the media and the government, through the federal department of education, has been teaching them for the last few decades. They push the LGBT agenda in every way possible, and anyone who says that is wrong is attacked viciously. Schools are fast becoming centers of fascism, not freedom of expression. School administrators are banning private prayer, the Bible, almost everything to do with Christianity while pushing Islamic beliefs, etc.... These are all the things the leftist politicians have been pushing for years, and getting highly aggressive about since Obama was first elected. Not getting an abortion is considered too controversial to even discuss on school campuses anymore.

I have read posts of yours that were in favor of many of these things. So don't even imagine that I have assumed anything from only one or two posts of yours. You have expressed your leftist ideas again and again online.

Quite a harsh and, in my experience, unwarranted condemnation of "...college, high school, and even middle school campuses..." Although these things do undoubtedly occur, I do not see them as either normal or universal. There are thousands of schools where these things do not occur, and free speech and tolerance is promoted.

It is unfortunate to paint an entire group (ie: "college students") based on the behavior of some, or claim that "anyone" who says otherwise is "viciously attacked." Undoubtedly some are. But when I read statements like the above I see a very strong, non-negotiable bias.


I can give you hundreds of links to what is happening on all levels of public education. And to say that the attacks upon those who advocate free speech and libertarian and conservative points of view aren't vicious is to ignore reality. Just this last week a liberal biology professor was told by the police that they could not hope to protect him on campus so he had to hold his biology classes off campus. What was going on is that groups of protesters were stopping and searching cars on campus, doing what the police described as "looking for someone". And the police were told to "stand down" and let the demonstrators do what they wanted to by the college president. That "someone" was a professor who objected to the idea that white people out to be banned from campus during a day celebrating blacks.

These kinds of things are very wide spread. Have you seen the number of times high school kids have been sent home because they wore an American flag shirt? Why were they sent home? Because the American flag is too "controversial". Did you read about the students who wanted to create a pro-life organization on their high school campus for the purpose of educating people about abortion and to give diapers to those unwed students who had babies? It was denied because it was too "controversial".

These are daily headlines from across the country. It is a daily event, not a weekly or monthly event. So, this is very widespread in public education. And when school administrators do not repress conservative points of view they are sued by leftists. The climate is freedom from religion, not freedom of religion. It is also very much freedom from free speech, not freedom of speech.

I'd like to see you give me some news articles showing how the public school system is upholding free speech for all sides of society. If you can find some I can give 30 or 40 that show just the opposite.

Oh, did you see the news blurb on the college professor who suited up in a ninja costume, put on a mask, and then took a large bike lock to the demonstration he participated in and beat those he disagreed with over the head the steel bike lock?

How about Kathy Griffen's little stunt yesterday with a replica of Donald Trump's head? How much outrage have you seen from the main stream press about that? Can you even imagine what they would have been like if a conservative/libertarian comedian had done that with a likeness of Obama's head? The bias is so blatant I am amazed at how many people still argue against it. To me there is only one word that describes it: indoctrination.

Last edited by Gary K; 06/01/17 04:36 PM.
Re: Is Ben Carson Right? [Re: The Wanderer] #183921
06/01/17 04:35 PM
06/01/17 04:35 PM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
So far, I see nothing that qualifies you to analyze me the way you have. Do you really think that 100 + books in your shelf or on your computer qualifies you any better than the next guy? You have no idea how wrong you are in what you have said about me here. You dont know me,you have never met me,and you have never tried to find out just what I do believe. Sometimes, it would be better if we understand one book properly,than a hundred books wrongly.

I happen to be quite familiar with Keynes and many other interesting topics,and how it fits into Canadian History.But you will never know about any of that because i will not be back to this topic.I am not into the poison


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: Is Ben Carson Right? [Re: The Wanderer] #183922
06/01/17 04:42 PM
06/01/17 04:42 PM
G
Garywk  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
So far, I see nothing that qualifies you to analyze me the way you have. Do you really think that 100 + books in your shelf or on your computer qualifies you any better than the next guy? You have no idea how wrong you are in what you have said about me here. You dont know me,you have never met me,and you have never tried to find out just what I do believe. Sometimes, it would be better if we understand one book properly,than a hundred books wrongly.

I happen to be quite familiar with Keynes and many other interesting topics,and how it fits into Canadian History.But you will never know about any of that because i will not be back to this topic.I am not into the poison


Oh, I see. The ideas you have expressed again and again have nothing to do with how and what you believe....

It's funny how you can tell me I have wrong understandings of things, but if I say so to you I'm into character assassination.

This reminds me of a conversation I had one time with another socialist. I started laying out the evidence for what I believed and what I saw happening in the world and his reply was I was reading all the wrong sources. Funny thing was, I was going to the original sources for my information. To him they were the "wrong" sources to read.

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