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Re: Left wing financial lunacy [Re: ] #184023
06/07/17 07:46 AM
06/07/17 07:46 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2018

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
The US Dollar isn't called the petro-dollar for nothing!

Just speaking for myself here. We have people that still put a lot more trust in what those who believe themselves to be economic teachers say and think. Such as the Federal Reserve Chairperson.

I don't!!!

In 2008-09 I finally learned my lesson and stopped listening to the economic pundits. Even then Chair of the US Fed Alan Greenspan admitted he would have to re-think the economy.

I already knew that by that time of the US investigation into the 2008-09 crash.

I have spent time since then in Keynes, Hayek, Social Credit, Islamic, Modern Monetary Theory and a couple of others. I don't subscribe to any of them, although, I do take bits and pieces from most of them anyway.

There is one person though that God has used to give me much focus in economic matters and his name is Professor Richard Werner from Southhampton College. He has a documentary called "Princes of the Yen" that really honed my understanding about both money and debt. He is the guy that first coined the term "quantitative easing". And it isn't what you are led to think it is by today's economic pundits.

In the first 7-8 minutes of his doc "Princes of the Yen", we learn what real quantitative easing really is.

We need to changes the structure and function of our economy and we can. We will see what God allows.

Re: Left wing financial lunacy [Re: Alchemy] #184027
06/07/17 03:15 PM
06/07/17 03:15 PM
G
Garywk  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
The US Dollar isn't called the petro-dollar for nothing!

Just speaking for myself here. We have people that still put a lot more trust in what those who believe themselves to be economic teachers say and think. Such as the Federal Reserve Chairperson.

I don't!!!

In 2008-09 I finally learned my lesson and stopped listening to the economic pundits. Even then Chair of the US Fed Alan Greenspan admitted he would have to re-think the economy.

I already knew that by that time of the US investigation into the 2008-09 crash.

I have spent time since then in Keynes, Hayek, Social Credit, Islamic, Modern Monetary Theory and a couple of others. I don't subscribe to any of them, although, I do take bits and pieces from most of them anyway.

There is one person though that God has used to give me much focus in economic matters and his name is Professor Richard Werner from Southhampton College. He has a documentary called "Princes of the Yen" that really honed my understanding about both money and debt. He is the guy that first coined the term "quantitative easing". And it isn't what you are led to think it is by today's economic pundits.

In the first 7-8 minutes of his doc "Princes of the Yen", we learn what real quantitative easing really is.

We need to changes the structure and function of our economy and we can. We will see what God allows.


If you really understood Hayek and Mises you would understand that they stood 100% against what is going on in today's economies. If their ideas had been followed world wide the economies of the entire world would be stable, poverty would be far less than it is today, and things like unemployment and inflation would not be the problems they are today. It isn't that they might not exist at all, but that they would be reduced considerably for it is impossible to get rid of all unemployment. Not all people want to work, and there are always winners and losers in a free market thus while come companies prosper others fail, and those failures lead to loss of jobs. Thus there will always be some unemployment.

Did you know that the only national economy ever set up by God was an economy based upon capitalism and no government intervention in the economy? It's true. Look at the economic structure God set up in ancient Israel. Now, all capitalism really means is the private ownership of land, natural resources, means of production, etc.... Now look at the laws of ancient Israel and you will find no laws governing how business was to be done other than those laws which limit greed and the harming of people through that greed. That means ancient Israel had a lassez faire capitalistic economy. The only "taxes" that God established were to support the priesthood and the poor. The Bible calls them tithes. There were no other forms of taxation. Those didn't come along until the Israelites rejected God as their king and asked for a king like the nations around them had. God warned them what would come of it but they refused to listen and insisted on their own way.

Re: Left wing financial lunacy [Re: dedication] #184028
06/07/17 03:33 PM
06/07/17 03:33 PM
G
Garywk  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
Originally Posted By: dedication
Actually, I fully agree that the debt based method of running an economy is ruinous to the nation. What you are saying is the way we wish things were.

Obviously banks should not be giving out huge mortgages with next to no down payments that will absolutely bankrupt them if a number of their clients can't pay their monthly payments.

And true, should America loose it's position as having the standard reserve currency, the value of the US dollar would drop like a lead balloon.

The economy is very complex and globally intertwined now and in many ways it violates the laws of a healthy state of economic living.

Yet the idea that economic activity is based only internally within a country is no longer true. The export/import activity does affect the economic activity within the country.
I mean-- here in Canada our economy took a real plunge because of external happenings, and those external happenings have affected a lot of people in Canada in very personal ways. Over 60,000 people in one province lost their jobs within six months because of the oil war taking place in other nations.

So yes, making a few changes to affect the betterment of the local commerce is always a good thing, but I'm not sure there is any possibility of going back on this practice of the USA printing money "out of thin air". They have to do it to maintain their position in the world economy.

Not only must they print money, they have to assert their authority on the oil market to keep their dollars position as the world standard or reserve currency.
That I believe, is why the USA did the "oil war" two years ago. It bolstered the US dollar again.
It put down other nations currency in relationship to the US dollar.


Somehow I don't think the USA will ever give up their position as having the world reserve currency.
Prophecy in Rev. 13 shows the USA in economic power over the whole world. They have enough economic power so no one can buy or sell unless they have the "mark of the beast".

The position of the US dollar as the world's reserve currency is what gives the US this kind of power over the world's economy.
And the "elite", secret societies, behind the scenes manipulators will see to it, that this remains the case. (not for the well being of American people, they aren't concerned about that, but for their agenda to control).



You have once again misunderstood what I am saying. Importing and exporting goods is buying and selling based upon real property, or in other words, tangible forms of wealth. They are included in a GDP, which the gross domestic production of an economy. What, lets say Italy and Saudi Arabia, do in using the dollar as the medium for exchange between themselves where Saudi Arabia gets dollars and Italy gets oil in return for dollars doesn't affect the economy of the US. It is separate from the US economy other than if Italy suddenly had no need for oil and so oil prices suddenly dropped because of reduction in demand for oil and the resulting increase in the supply. But that effect would hold true even if Italy and Saudi Arabia used the British pound as the medium for their exchange.

As to your last comment, the Bible clearly foretells a time when there will be a time of trouble such as never was. Why are most wars fought? Over economic issues. Why would men's hearts fail them for fear over what is coming upon the world? Because the economies of the world are completely interconnected and if the US crashes so does the rest of the world.

What I am giving you is very sound economic principles. I'm demonstrating how things happen economically. What causes inflation, what causes economic downturns, etc.... I'm not saying I'm predicting the future, I'm basically just giving you "what if" scenarios to illustrate the foundational principles of economics.

Re: Left wing financial lunacy [Re: ] #184029
06/07/17 03:45 PM
06/07/17 03:45 PM
G
Garywk  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
In addition to my statements on Israel's economy remember what God told them about what would happen if they followed His way of doing things. He told them they would be fabulously wealthy, that the rest of the world would be astonished at them.

Now why would they become wealthy beyond the rest of the world's imagination? The rest of the world used a centralized government structure that interfered with their businessmen. In other words the businesses were regulated according to what enriched the kings. Thus the governments were draining the wealth out of those societies.

God's laws, and ways of doing things, are always based upon what works. Why health laws? Because following them makes us healthier. Why His way of setting up an economy? Because if followed to the letter it produces more wealth for the people and reduces poverty. All God ever said about "special" economic blessings that He would provide was that He would send the rain for their crops. That alone would not have made the COI wealthy. Much of the "secret" to the wealth would have been the very economic system God set up.

Last edited by Gary K; 06/07/17 03:46 PM.
Re: Left wing financial lunacy [Re: ] #184039
06/08/17 02:16 PM
06/08/17 02:16 PM
A
Alchemy  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2018

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: Gary K
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
The US Dollar isn't called the petro-dollar for nothing!

Just speaking for myself here. We have people that still put a lot more trust in what those who believe themselves to be economic teachers say and think. Such as the Federal Reserve Chairperson.

I don't!!!

In 2008-09 I finally learned my lesson and stopped listening to the economic pundits. Even then Chair of the US Fed Alan Greenspan admitted he would have to re-think the economy.

I already knew that by that time of the US investigation into the 2008-09 crash.

I have spent time since then in Keynes, Hayek, Social Credit, Islamic, Modern Monetary Theory and a couple of others. I don't subscribe to any of them, although, I do take bits and pieces from most of them anyway.

There is one person though that God has used to give me much focus in economic matters and his name is Professor Richard Werner from Southhampton College. He has a documentary called "Princes of the Yen" that really honed my understanding about both money and debt. He is the guy that first coined the term "quantitative easing". And it isn't what you are led to think it is by today's economic pundits.

In the first 7-8 minutes of his doc "Princes of the Yen", we learn what real quantitative easing really is.

We need to changes the structure and function of our economy and we can. We will see what God allows.


If you really understood Hayek and Mises you would understand that they stood 100% against what is going on in today's economies. If their ideas had been followed world wide the economies of the entire world would be stable, poverty would be far less than it is today, and things like unemployment and inflation would not be the problems they are today. It isn't that they might not exist at all, but that they would be reduced considerably for it is impossible to get rid of all unemployment. Not all people want to work, and there are always winners and losers in a free market thus while come companies prosper others fail, and those failures lead to loss of jobs. Thus there will always be some unemployment.

Did you know that the only national economy ever set up by God was an economy based upon capitalism and no government intervention in the economy? It's true. Look at the economic structure God set up in ancient Israel. Now, all capitalism really means is the private ownership of land, natural resources, means of production, etc.... Now look at the laws of ancient Israel and you will find no laws governing how business was to be done other than those laws which limit greed and the harming of people through that greed. That means ancient Israel had a lassez faire capitalistic economy. The only "taxes" that God established were to support the priesthood and the poor. The Bible calls them tithes. There were no other forms of taxation. Those didn't come along until the Israelites rejected God as their king and asked for a king like the nations around them had. God warned them what would come of it but they refused to listen and insisted on their own way.


If you understood free markets and no control over money and its allocation, you would see that Mises and Hayek's ideas have limited effectiveness. Until we completely separate cash from credit, it is impossible for any type of economy to work or turn around the economy.

Austrian is good in many cases, but, by itself it can't really get the job done.

Re: Left wing financial lunacy [Re: ] #184040
06/08/17 02:20 PM
06/08/17 02:20 PM
A
Alchemy  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2018

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: Gary K
In addition to my statements on Israel's economy remember what God told them about what would happen if they followed His way of doing things. He told them they would be fabulously wealthy, that the rest of the world would be astonished at them.

Now why would they become wealthy beyond the rest of the world's imagination? The rest of the world used a centralized government structure that interfered with their businessmen. In other words the businesses were regulated according to what enriched the kings. Thus the governments were draining the wealth out of those societies.

God's laws, and ways of doing things, are always based upon what works. Why health laws? Because following them makes us healthier. Why His way of setting up an economy? Because if followed to the letter it produces more wealth for the people and reduces poverty. All God ever said about "special" economic blessings that He would provide was that He would send the rain for their crops. That alone would not have made the COI wealthy. Much of the "secret" to the wealth would have been the very economic system God set up.


Also, God's form of economy completely addresses the debt problem. Even if grace and mercy are required to do it. But, the debt problem never becomes a crisis.

Re: Left wing financial lunacy [Re: Alchemy] #184045
06/08/17 06:12 PM
06/08/17 06:12 PM
G
Garywk  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
Originally Posted By: Alchemy


If you understood free markets and no control over money and its allocation, you would see that Mises and Hayek's ideas have limited effectiveness. Until we completely separate cash from credit, it is impossible for any type of economy to work or turn around the economy.

Austrian is good in many cases, but, by itself it can't really get the job done.


But the Austrian economists do understand the problems of debt and deficit spending. The world has been swept away by Keynesian economics. He is the one who posited that debt was good. That it could only have a positive influence. That's why reading the book on him is important. It shows who he was and why everything he wrote was so flawed, because the only morality he had was that which said, if he thinks it benefits John Maynard Keynes in some fashion it is moral. If it didn't it was immoral.

The Austrian school of economics stands diametrically opposed to everything he actually put out. There is a small, free book available from Hayek titled Individualism and Economic Order. In it you will find one Biblical principle after another, although they are not presented as such. I was astonished when I read it several years ago. It is a free download from the Mises Institute at mises.org. There is another very good small book out on the Biblical principles of money. It was written by Gary North, and is titled Honest Money. It is also available for free from mises.org.

Re: Left wing financial lunacy [Re: ] #184046
06/08/17 06:29 PM
06/08/17 06:29 PM
G
Garywk  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
Ok. Here is the first paragraph of Hayek's Individualism and Economic Order. See if you do not find a Biblical principle involved here such as absolute morality.

Quote:
To advocate really clear-cut principles of social order is today an almost certain way to incur the stigma of being an unpractical doctrinaire. It has come to be regarded as the sign of the judicious mind that in social matters one does not adhere to fixed principles but decides each question ”on its merits”; that one is generally guided by expediency and is ready to compromise between opposed views. Principles, however, have a way of asserting themselves even if they are not explicitly recognized but are only implied in particular decisions, or if they are present only as vague ideas of what is or is not being done. Thus it has come about that under the sign of ”neither individualism nor socialism” we are in fact rapidly moving from a society of free individuals toward one of a completely collectivist character.


What is a "collectivist character"? A centralized government that makes all decisions for people. It controls not only political thought and economics, but also moral ideas. To understand how thoroughly Hayek understood this you have to read his book, The Road to Serfdom. That is one of the most important political and economic books of the 20th century as it exposes what is happening right now in our world, and Hayek wrote it in the 1940's. That book shows why that type of government must be unutterably corrupt morally and financially. And what is preached at us every day by the educational system, media and government? Collectivism. If we do not truly understand collectivism it is very easy to get swept away by it because it is packaged with all the deception the devil is capable of using, and those who do get swept away by it soon abandon their Christianity in favor of political ideals.


Last edited by Gary K; 06/08/17 06:36 PM.
Re: Left wing financial lunacy [Re: ] #184049
06/09/17 02:18 AM
06/09/17 02:18 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2018

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
The government can and should execute the will of the people in accordance with that countries laws or constitution. And this can be a very good thing. To take government out so completely is simple anarchy which I completely abhor.

Mises and Hayek never had a good understanding of how government can work. It sure wasn't good for England during Margaret Thatcher.

But, you can be an Austrian. There is better available though.

Re: Left wing financial lunacy [Re: ] #184050
06/09/17 04:00 AM
06/09/17 04:00 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: Gary K
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
The US Dollar isn't called the petro-dollar for nothing!

Just speaking for myself here. We have people that still put a lot more trust in what those who believe themselves to be economic teachers say and think. Such as the Federal Reserve Chairperson.

I don't!!!

In 2008-09 I finally learned my lesson and stopped listening to the economic pundits. Even then Chair of the US Fed Alan Greenspan admitted he would have to re-think the economy.

I already knew that by that time of the US investigation into the 2008-09 crash.

I have spent time since then in Keynes, Hayek, Social Credit, Islamic, Modern Monetary Theory and a couple of others. I don't subscribe to any of them, although, I do take bits and pieces from most of them anyway.

There is one person though that God has used to give me much focus in economic matters and his name is Professor Richard Werner from Southhampton College. He has a documentary called "Princes of the Yen" that really honed my understanding about both money and debt. He is the guy that first coined the term "quantitative easing". And it isn't what you are led to think it is by today's economic pundits.

In the first 7-8 minutes of his doc "Princes of the Yen", we learn what real quantitative easing really is.

We need to changes the structure and function of our economy and we can. We will see what God allows.


If you really understood Hayek and Mises you would understand that they stood 100% against what is going on in today's economies. If their ideas had been followed world wide the economies of the entire world would be stable, poverty would be far less than it is today, and things like unemployment and inflation would not be the problems they are today. It isn't that they might not exist at all, but that they would be reduced considerably for it is impossible to get rid of all unemployment. Not all people want to work, and there are always winners and losers in a free market thus while come companies prosper others fail, and those failures lead to loss of jobs. Thus there will always be some unemployment.

Did you know that the only national economy ever set up by God was an economy based upon capitalism and no government intervention in the economy? It's true. Look at the economic structure God set up in ancient Israel. Now, all capitalism really means is the private ownership of land, natural resources, means of production, etc.... Now look at the laws of ancient Israel and you will find no laws governing how business was to be done other than those laws which limit greed and the harming of people through that greed. That means ancient Israel had a lassez faire capitalistic economy. The only "taxes" that God established were to support the priesthood and the poor. The Bible calls them tithes. There were no other forms of taxation. Those didn't come along until the Israelites rejected God as their king and asked for a king like the nations around them had. God warned them what would come of it but they refused to listen and insisted on their own way.

Again, you are lying to the people! China has a centralized system of government and today is on course to become the largest economy in the world. Be careful of dragging God's name down into the pit of the "prosperity gospel".

God does NOT run an economy. We are taught to pray, "OUR FATHER who is in heaven ..." In Him, we move and have our being: and all that He has created has been given to us freely as an inheritance for which we neither work nor toil, but only discover and manage.

  • And he said to his disciples, "Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat, nor about your body, what you will put on. For life is more than food, and the body more than clothing.
     
  • Consider the ravens: they neither sow nor reap, they have neither storehouse nor barn, and yet God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than the birds! And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life? If then you are not able to do as small a thing as that, why are you anxious about the rest? Consider the lilies, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. But if God so clothes the grass, which is alive in the field today, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, how much more will he clothe you, O you of little faith!
     
  • And do not seek what you are to eat and what you are to drink, nor be worried. For all the nations of the world seek after these things, and your Father knows that you need them. Instead, seek his kingdom, and these things will be added to you.
     
  • Fear not, little flock, for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom. Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

    --- Luke 12:22-34

See what is underlined in red? But you have become enraptured by Trumpian Economics and have set yourself up as the President's Evangelist among Christians deceptively endeavouring to secure their support as the Serpent in the Garden. It is a despicable work you do.

///

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